more info on the f56

[Stewart]

It’s the fact that’s the starting price. Friend had a girl next to him pricing up a Countryman and he overheard the sales guy saying that’s 33K without it! ( God knows what she was skimping on)

[The Dogfather]

Shocking how much (all) new cars cost. Its just as shocking when you see how much they depreciate as well.

Buy a motorhome and use it as a car at least they hold their value better. Mine cost £33k and its now worth about £27k two years later. I bet that paceman will loose that much in its first year if not a lot more. In 8 years time it will still be worth about £16k.

0-60 is not much to write home about though

[Stewart]

A year old MINI Paceman JCW will still be high priced but at least it would have taken that new car hit. That 20% Vat the government got away with was a killer when buying such an expensive item. Its was bad enough paying 17.5%

[ELFMAN]

According to Modern MINI mag in an article on 'Trends' featuring a Norfolk MINI Dealer, the Hatch is still doing OK, which is good news, but the Coupe and Roadster, despite being obvious 'niche models' where you wouldn't expect big sales, seem (if the dealer in question is correct) to be something of a liability in the trade at the moment. Countryman is doing well, and LOTS of enquiries about Paceman... I know we take these reports with as many pinches of salt as are necessary, but the trend seems to be emerging (eg with the new bigger 5 door Hatch etc) with MINI moving away from their 'Sporty' (if slightly impractical) models and into the 'Premium Crossover' segment.

Rather than (as initially envisaged and despite it being a 'stand-alone' brand) MINI being seen as a characterful, stylish and sporty possible 'first rung' on the BMW ladder, it seems that a large part of its future 'raison d'etre' might now turn out to be as a refuge from expensive 4x4's for style-conscious but slightly cash-strapped 'Soft-Roaders'. Instead of being an upward step, its best selling models might one day owe their existence to 'automotive downsizing'. I can actually envisage a time when we might not recognise the MINI as we know it - it'll have a MINI badge, and it WILL be called 'MINI', but it might not have much in common with the Hatch you drive today.

It won't happen this year or the next, and I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see myself in a convoy of enthusiastically-driven Nissan Duke-alikes or miniature Evoques on an NMS run in 5 years time. Things certainly change and arguably 'improve' - it's the way of the world - but one buyer's 'improvement' might well be the enthusiast's nemesis.

Apologies for going slightly

[Stewart]

I’m with you on that! I would happily keep buying MINI if it keeps the Hatch – wait for it MINI looking. On the south side Hatches and Countrymen are ten a penny. Certainly I think most of the Countrymen are driven by the mummy brigade but there is a lot about these days. I’ve only ever seen two Roadsters on the road with the Coupe being extremely low as well. The Roadsters and Coupe on evidence seem not to have taken off as I think they would have hoped. If BMW if they can’t work out you need the Hatch that got them where they are today at there core then I too fear for my Hatch.

If they bring out a Three Pot hatch and gets silly miles to the gallon and still fun to drive and produces the same power as my Coop then i'll be happy. But only if it still looks similar to my R56. I know Euro law on pedestrian safety plays its part but they look determined take the stance we want futuristic over retro. That to me is just a cheap get out saying we want the car to look like this and have this badge that sells even if it does not look anything like the first gen and we are going to use futuristic to get round it.

If they disappoint the very core owners who have made the brand so popular from the start they could find themselves sitting years from now thinking what went wrong. The very real fact today is that it’s a British icon car that is now being stretched and pulled to fit markets in the USA and the far East!

[ELFMAN]

If they disappoint the very core owners who have made the brand so popular from the start they could find themselves sitting years from now thinking what went wrong. The very real fact today is that it’s a British icon car that is now being stretched and pulled to fit markets in the USA and the far East!

What's maybe interesting (you never know, folks!) is that if the Countryman and Paceman are indeed picking up sales from the likes of Range Rover buyers with an eye on belt-tightening running costs etc, when (and if) the economy does pick up, will these buyers desert MINI just as quickly and go back to their undeniably larger and arguably more 'status-filled' vehicles? Then the forecourts will be littered with 'pre-owned' big MINIs with nowhere to go. I'm not saying they will, but if MINI base their future on these larger models, they might find to their cost that their 'new' market segment has deserted them and their 'old faithfulls' no longer have a model which fulfills the criteria of the current Hatch.

After all, Brand Loyalty is built up over years (with and by people like us) whereas quickly-converted 'Downsizers' and 'Fashionistas' might become fickle when they reckon they can 're-afford' their previous big stuff and a well-specced Countryman or Paceman is coming out of the showroom at over £30K... For true Brand Loyalty, MINI need look no further than the esteemed pages of NMS!

Back to the F56 - it'll be interesting to see just how it turns out 'in the metal' and drives on the road - hopefully it'll still be close to the driving experience of our favourite wee (or if you're a Gen 1 fan - and who isn't?, 'big') R56 Hatch. The revised 'more practical' Clubbie sounds quite intriguing though...

[weefossy]

Still maintain that BMW got it wrong with the Coupe / Roadster, in that it should have been one car, with a convertible "Tin Roof". I like both, but a combined car would have been better.

[AndyP & Lenore]

0-60 is not much to write home about though

That's for sure Paul. "Pace" man? Not with that pace.

Still maintain that BMW got it wrong with the Coupe / Roadster, in that it should have been one car, with a convertible "Tin Roof". I like both, but a combined car would have been better.

Absolutely Malcolm. Added weight as a result, yes, but significantly more practical and just so much better looking.

A.

[Mon the fish]

Still maintain that BMW got it wrong with the Coupe / Roadster, in that it should have been one car, with a convertible "Tin Roof". I like both, but a combined car would have been better.

Considering it's the same chassis, they really should have thought of that themselves

[ELFMAN]

Considering it's the same chassis, they really should have thought of that themselves

I think this is the result of MINI's headlong rush into releasing so many models to cover every market segment they can brainstorm over endless poncey coffees!

This might be a daft point (especially if you remember who's making it...), but I know MINI used a lot of new CAD/CAM stuff on the Coupe and Roadster, which sped up the design and manufacturing process and obviously made the whole process more cost-effective. So perhaps they made both because they could. Maybe if they had been forced to spend more time, money and physical effort, they might have come to Malcolm's conclusion that one model could have covered both bases.
A bit more discussion and a bit less caffeine might be the answer...