Absolutley disgusted at NMS User Antihero3000

[Crombers]

Mmmmmmmm a bit of 'evil' doings I see, my 'pantomime' instincts have been 'aroused' somewhat

Wonder what I could fetch for Fi's 18" Hamanns , hardly a mark on them

Might some 'fool' start the bidding at say £1800

[ELFMAN]

I have some priceless antiques I bought for a tenner from an old blind lady - should be able to punt them for a few grand, well, it's the 'Free Market' innit? Winners and losers and all that eh? Also one slightly soiled, but mainly unused, Conscience up for grabs. Now where's that Parliamentary Expenses form for getting my castle laminated?

[GAJ]

I don't know if there is more to this than mets the eye, but I think this thread is pretty unfair.

IMO, site admins really should think long and hard whether they are abusing their position here.

Again, IMO, if Andy had a problem with this, he would have been better off trying to resolve it with Antihero behind closed doors. This public flogging thing should have been abandoned in the middle ages, and is arguably as bad, if not worse, than making a couple of quid from selling things on - especially given the mitigating circumstances. And anybody that knows me, will know that I am as far away from a Thatcherite, capitalist, out for myself, money maker as you are ever likely to meet.

I would also disagree that there is a particular spirit of altruism here, with people regularly offering things for sale at much below their market value. If you figure in the inconvenience and overheads like fees and postage, and risk of chargeback etc. associated with selling on eBay, for example, the prices asked here are not considerably different from what would be the net price achieved there.

IIRC, at least part of the items being dicussed here were sold to Andy from another forum member. In the spirit of fairness and openess, would it not be reasonable for Andy to disclose how much he purchased those for and the estimated value of the scuffed downtubes included in the sale to demonstrate that his price was in anyway indicative of good naturedly (if that is a word!) offering a bargain in an altruistic community. This would at least allow other forum members to comment from a more informed and balanced viewpoint.

Even if this is proven - does it really warrant this public naming and shaming without, as far as I can determine, any attempt being made to resolve this between the two parties that have a legitimate interest. The emotive language and baying of the crowd by those with the power to decide what is and what will not be published, and the refusal to attempt to resolve or even discuss the situation in private - that really is disgusting.

I fully understand that Andy has explained that his main gripe is the timing and his belief that Antihero was trying to make a couple of quid all along. But really - lets see this all reasonably it's really no big deal - and certainly did not deserve the amount of vitriol expressed by this thread. All in IMO.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Gaj, you've missed the point entirely.

After making a complaint to the site owner regarding Antihero's behaviour, the site owner felt unable to take direct action due to this one incident. He then asked me to post up what had happened, so I did.

This post was started purely as a warning to other NMS members with advice NOT to do business with Antihero3000. It was not started with any attempt to "resolve" any issues with Antihero, because there is nothing to resolve. He's done what he's done and that can't be changed. But there was no way I was going to allow him to dupe me and not warn other NMS members about what he has done.

It's also fair to say that after deliberately profiteering on my good nature, there would be NO way in hell I would discuss anything with this guy in private. Any ongoing discussions regarding this situation can be carried out here in public. I have nothing to hide.

Any following posts in this thread agreeing or disagreeing with the original post have been made by the respective member, I didn't ask for them.

As for the price we paid for the dash. It was two years ago and was included in trading other parts/event tickets for the dash, so honestly, we can't remember what we paid for it. However, that's not the point. If Antihero had owned these items for a couple of years and decided to sell them on I wouldn't bat an eyelid if he asked £500 for them - if that was what the market was commanding at that time, good for him, he's made a profit. You are quite correct that what irked me more than anything was the timing, and that he had SOLD these items at a profit before he even BOUGHT them from me.

In closing, no matter what your opinion, I feel I have conducted myself in a fair and mature manner throughout this whole ordeal, and your description of me as "disgusting" I take quite personally.

A.

[ELFMAN]

Can I clarify that my 'Thatcherite' remark and the 'comic' one above was in direct response to R32GTR's following comment:
"if anything its your fault for under pricing them some people get ahead in life some people take a loss i know which id rather be".
which I thought was hard-nosed and went against the ethos of NMS.

I think the main warning from this 'unfortunate incident' is that it could jeopardise the 'For Sale' section on the Website. (Presumably if you're getting rid of items in the 'Free' section it might not matter so much if someone's then going to take on the task of making something out of it, as you just want shot of the stuff).

I must make it clear that this is a general observation, and is not aimed at anyone in particular.
Whenever money's involved in any organisation, be it for fees, bills, or in our case, Items for Sale, there is an inherent risk of suspicion, disappointment or grievance rearing its ugly head. When you're selling items which are actually worth a decent amount of money, I have to say I would price them differently if I thought they were going to be used by an NMS 'friend' for their car, as opposed to someone who was maybe just looking to take advantage of the friendly nature of NMS to make a quick profit. I would rather GIVE AWAY something of value to someone I liked and respected than feel that I had been 'taken a loan of' as we say in Lanarkshire. If there's a suspicion that the NMS member you're selling to (thinking it's for their own use) is taking part in the 'deal' with the sole intention of, say, punting the item straight onto E-Bay for an extra fifty quid (which you've maybe taken off in good faith for a fellow NMS/MINI fan), then that's killing the whole 'spirit' of what we're trying to do here, and we should just sell all our stuff on E-Bay and price them accordingly.

I found it quite disturbing, and not a little annoying that R32GTR seemed to suggest that 'naive' NMS members were fair game for those of a more 'mercenary' outlook in this type of transaction. NMS members have a responsibility to ensure that their actions not only ARE up front and honest, but that they are SEEN to be so. It's not just what you do (which might be perfectly acceptable to you), it's also how people PERCEIVE what you're doing. This would hopefully avoid 'misunderstandings' in future, and preserve the good nature which we all enjoy in NMS. Without that, we might as well pack it in.

[GAJ]

I've not missed the point. You may be too close, and to angry, to see this in a balanced way though. :-)

I really don't understand how you think you were duped. You offered an item for sale unconditionally and it was bought. The new owner can do what they like with it. Being a bit peeved that they maybe made a couple more quid than you did is one thing, but all this...

I agree that what you paid is an irrelevance - but no more so than what the new owner did with them after you agreed to sell to him.

I used the word disgusting, as you did initially, quite deliberately, not to upset you, but in the hope that you would see how out of proportion your reaction has been. To make a post like this really isn't very nice, no matter the circumstances, and I would hope that this would not be encouraged if a similar circumstance occurs in the future. That it was started by an administrator makes it worse. Whether a third party suggested it as a course of action or not is not relevant, it was your decision to turn that suggestion into action, but I would question the wisdom of that suggestion. It kind of flies in the face of the kind of community you quite rightly want to build. No matter what the truth of Antihero's action two wrongs don't make a right, as any mother will tell you!

Anyway, what's done is done. Mountains and molehills!

[R32GTR]

Well i am an out and out tory boy so theres my confession, but lets look at this subjectively.

Anti hero did not attempt to sell them on NMS did he, he sold them on what i can see is his home forum and to their members, there is no site rules against this on here or there from what i can see.

You all have two choices, put up and man up and stop putting bitchy threads like this up, or change your site rules.

[AndyP & Lenore]

My initial post stands. This was meant as a general warning to all users about Antihero3000's motives when buying or selling.

Clearly his buddies are going to defend his indefensible actions, I would expect nothing different. But it doesn't change the way I feel.

GAJ, how would you have felt a couple of years ago after I had agreed to buy your Mac, before I even paid for it and picked it up, you found it on eBay for £100 more?

A.

[AndyP & Lenore]

I've sent a PM to the site owner asking him to close this thread - I could do it myself, but I would rather it was his decision.

I think it's served it's purpose and as much as I stand firm on why I posted it in the first place, I'm concerned it's going to turn into a public slagging match and that was never the intention.

A.

[Delboy]

Well i am an out and out tory boy so theres my confession, but lets look at this subjectively.

Anti hero did not attempt to sell them on NMS did he, he sold them on what i can see is his home forum and to their members, there is no site rules against this on here or there from what i can see.

You all have two choices, put up and man up and stop putting bitchy threads like this up, or change your site rules.

This is you being subjective?

Andy didn't say the guy broke any rules but that he acted in a way that is not generally acceptable to the membership of NMS and is against the spirit of the For Sale section. Clearly you don't agree with that view and that's fine but don't start telling us to "man up" or change the rules.

Perhaps you should stick to your own "home forum" where the members are obviously more commercially aware and less bitchy .