Site Downtime

[Monsta Mo Mini]

Due to the ever increasing amount of downtime I'd just like to clarify the situation as I believe some folk are starting to get a bit frustrated.

The fault is not with the server. It’s simply down to the limitations of the forums software in it’s current configuration. In the early days it was set up to run on an ACCESS database (.asp) as this was the cheapest and easiest to set-up.

Obviously the site membership has expanded way beyond expectations and unfortunately this has exposed the limitations of the ASP set-up. If too many people try to access the default.asp file at once, it goes over until the server is reset at midnight.

I’ve looked into shifting to vBulletin running on MySQL (as MINI2) but this option presents a number of problems. To do this, I’d have to run the existing database through two different converters before importing into the new forums hosted on a UNIX server. I have neither the knowhow or a PC to do this on.

OR

We could simply start from scratch with brand new forums on a new server. The old forums would be available for browsing only. Everyone would have to re-register.

I’m somewhat lacking in the technical expertise to do any of the work required. I’ve made several appeals on this site for help regarding these issues without success. So once again, any willing bods with a good knowledge of ASP and MySQL, could you please get in touch.

Hope this makes the situation clearer. Any feedback on the best way forward would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

Calum
NMS Webmaster

[Big Col]

There must be some geeeeeek helpful IT literate person on here that could help Calum out with all this surely? <looks at lnl> ;)

Personally I think it seems that starting from scratch would be the easiest solution and having to re register wouldn't be a problem for me. IMHO of course. :)

[duncan]

Re-registering isnt a great hardship, IMHO either.

[Crombers]

Lets do whatever we have to do in order to make things even better I say :approve:

[Wul]

Yup - if re-registering is the easiest option for you Calum then it get's my vote. :)

- if your needing more donations too Calum, I'm sure i can find a couple of quid down the back of the sofa.

- it's funny - the first click of Submit for this post got a "page not available" error - now theres a coincidence!! :clown:

[The Dogfather]

Having run a vBulletin forum in the past the added functionality would be good, as anyone who uses MINI2 would know.

Re-registering wouldn't be an issue for me either. Perhaps we can have a stab at transferring with the option of an old NMS archive as a back up.

I happy to assist attempting to import the old database into the new and I'm pretty good at manipulating MS Access databases (it's what I do for a living), if I can help I will.

[Burple]

quote:Originally posted by Big Col

There must be some geeeeeek helpful IT literate person on here that could help Calum out with all this surely? <looks at lnl> ;)



<Smack!> :p:p

Unfortunately I'm lacking the same geeky technical knowledge as Calum :( The best I can do is some VERY limited knowledge of SQL, and that was only really of te 'querying the database' type stuff.

The only downside I see of starting from scratch are all the old archived posts (which are a Goldmine of useful tips and advice!). Would these still be available to view?
Apart from that, it's no great Hardship to Re-register! That's one way of keeping the membership fresh.. You might actually see a fairly large reduction in the amount of members we have, as the very occasional visitor (or Lurkers), or those who don't come around any more might not bother to register again..


only my 2p
;):D:D

[Scottie]

I don't mind if I have to re register but it would be good to keep the old data. :D:)

[Wul]

To quote M3's post:

"We could simply start from scratch with brand new forums on a new server. The old forums would be available for browsing only. Everyone would have to re-register."

:clown::p

[Craig]

I think re-registering would be a good idea, as I had a conversation with a certain AndyP ;) on fri night that we seem to have nearly a thousand registered users and we seem to have a core who are on the website and attend/run events of about 50 - 100 people, so I think it would be good for a clear-out. It would also get rid of all of the "lurkers" as lnl put it. I think we should do something that I know other forums do, in that you only get access to all forums if you give details of who you are, thus stopping the "lurkers" from hiding their identity.... Just my tuppence.

Craig :D

[GAJ]

Lots of people who 'lurk' aren't up to anything sinister, it's just that they might think that they don't have anything to contribute by posting. That's absolutely fine! We are more than happy for them to continue to browse the site. The more distinct people who regularly click through and browse the site the better (particularly for our advertisers!!).;)

Since the site launched, almost 3 years ago now, we have had an active core membership of around the size mentioned, 50 to 100 people BUT it's not always been the same 50 to 100 people! That's the nature of the beast; people lose interest and new people join and so it continues . . .

I don't think it's helpful to see the launch of the new forum as an opportunity to narrow the membership of NMS. We already have full access to site traffic information - we know who logs in, how often, when and from where (big brother is indeed watching you, on here, as on every other website that you visit!!) If the need arises people can be denied access to the site.:evil:

Unless we find an ASP/MySQL guru soon we will have no choice other than for all our visitors to re-register. I would encourage everone to do that; even those who may not post very often.:)

[Gismo]

Not wanting to make it look like the mods versus the rest here, but, some of the lurkers are also sponsors :)
Firms who sponsor this or any site look at the registered users to guage their committment
Apart from that, i'm all for whatever makes the site run smoother, easy to post etc etc
As long as i get to keep my post count ;) to show how sad i am

[Craig]

my comments may have been taken out of context/misunderstood.:eek: I actually meant the people who cause trouble, not those who just "browse". we all need the sponsors..;) It's good to know the troublemakers are being dealt with.:D

[sleepyrascal]

Whatever needs to be done is cool with me!

Calum, if your totally stuck technically, I would suggest contacting some of the Universities/Colleges in your area. Switching the forum could be an excellent project for a computer science/IT/related student, and you get it done for free!

Companies are really starting to take advantage of me and my course mates for the wrok we do, which we dont really mind. They get work done for free, we get recognition and experience on live projects! Actually thats not strictly true. I got a free FIRST rail and bus pass out of the last project :D

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ

If the need arises people can be denied access to the site.:evil:


Note to self> Don't get into another pissing contest with GAJ over downloading.<Note ends.

Re-regsitering wouldn't bother me at all. It's good that we would still be able to access all the previous posts. And I agree with most of the Mods, a lurker is just another person waiting to get involved and come to meets etc. etc.

On a personal note, I'm not so keen on the system MINI2 uses. I love the simplicity of this board, but at the same time I understand the complexity of the problem in keeping up with demand.

I wish I knew more anything about MySql, if I did I'd gladly help out.

AndyP

[GAJ]

No problem Craig. The policy of zero tolerance for anyone whose sole reason in visiting the site will continue. I can't tell you what happens to these people, for obvious reasons, but a wee hint - don't eat Hall's pies!;)

Seriously though, NMS is fortunate not to have suffered from the problems which I know have afflicted other forums. I think that, at least in part, this is due to the fact that people who frequent this site do feel part of a community where everyone's view is respected and people are free to read and post in any topic. Having excessive bureaucracy, 'member only' forums, heavy handed moderation and such like can often have the opposite affect from that intended. Moderators on this site thankfully have a pretty quiet life on the whole, despite Mr. Nice's best efforts!;)

To clarify; my earlier post was just to explain the benefits of having a large registered user base, regardless of whether or not those members actively post.:p


quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore


quote:Originally posted by GAJ

If the need arises people can be denied access to the site.:evil:

Note to self> Don't get into another pissing contest with GAJ over downloading.<Note ends.

:D
I thought you had realised we had been saying the same thing, just not realising it -

Downloading legally held files = Good:)
Downloading illegally held files = Bad:(
:approve:

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ
I thought you had realised we had been saying the same thing, just not realising it -

Downloading legally held files = Good
Downloading illegally held files = Bad





GAJ. It was a joke mate.:D A JOKE.:D Jees.:D OK. Maybe I should have put a ":D" at the end of the sentence. But really, it was a JOKE!:D:D:D:D:D

[GAJ]

Andy, doh! I know it was! If you look at my post again you'll see that I did put a smiley there! Wake up!:)

[The Dogfather]

Gaj - What format is the current forum in? Is it still an Access database?

I can sort of remember there is a facility to import data into vBulletin, do you or M^3 know what format the data has to be in?

[GAJ]

Currently it's an Access database. It's not possible to import this directly into vBulletin, it would first have to be converted to MySQL. This in itself poses loads of problems, it's not a case of simply getting a script and clicking run, unfortunately. Full details of the problems others have had attempting similar conversions can be found on the vBulletin forum (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/). I have a guy working with me at the moment who is a wizard at these things but he doesn't have the time (or inclination!) to spend on this gratis and there's no way we can afford his £1k day rate!

[Heather]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ

no way we can afford his £1k day rate!

He could write it off as a charity contribution:p

[The Dogfather]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ

Currently it's an Access database. It's not possible to import this directly into vBulletin, it would first have to be converted to MySQL. This in itself poses loads of problems, it's not a case of simply getting a script and clicking run, unfortunately. Full details of the problems others have had attempting similar conversions can be found on the vBulletin forum (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/). I have a guy working with me at the moment who is a wizard at these things but he doesn't have the time (or inclination!) to spend on this gratis and there's no way we can afford his £1k day rate!


Gaj, Access is my specialist subject ;) I seem to remember that vBulletin can import data files (although I might be wrong). It might be possible to manipulate the data and output into a format that vBulletin can then import.

Might not work, or only partially work, but would be worth a try, like I said I'm happy to give it a go.:D

You could consider it my sponsorship for next year ;):D:D

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ

Currently it's an Access database. It's not possible to import this directly into vBulletin, it would first have to be converted to MySQL. This in itself poses loads of problems, it's not a case of simply getting a script and clicking run, unfortunately. Full details of the problems others have had attempting similar conversions can be found on the vBulletin forum (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/). I have a guy working with me at the moment who is a wizard at these things but he doesn't have the time (or inclination!) to spend on this gratis and there's no way we can afford his £1k day rate!


vbulletin seems well suported:)

surely we have the expertise out there with backup support from vbulletin to make this happen

[The Dogfather]

Gaj - found this http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157703&highlight=importing+from+csv

Its easy to output from Access into a CSV file, not sure if the data will need to be manipulated before though....

[GAJ]

That's excellent news Paul. The import facility into the latest version of vBulletin uses ImpEx (http://www.vbulletin.com/members/import.php ). The procedure is well documented on the vBulletin site, as are the problems converting from the Snitz .asp.

Feel free at having a crack at writing a convertor script and let us know how you get on.

[The Dogfather]

Gaj - I'll need a copy of the structure (not the actual data though) of current database ie what tables, fields are used in Snitz etc. then I can map each table and field to the required format for vBulletin.

It will then be possible to export these as individual CSV files and then should be possible to import these into vBulletin using the CSV importer.

Can't promise this will work though :I I might be oversimplifying the process.....

[GAJ]

You can down load Snitz from here. (http://forum.snitz.com/)

It's freeware!

[Mini Me]

what ate you boy's talking aboot :p

[The Dogfather]

quote:Originally posted by minime

what ate you boy's talking aboot :p


Top Secret, I'll tell you in exchange for info on the new engines ;)

[john]

quote:Originally posted by minime

what ate you boy's talking aboot :p


We don't know what they are talking about,and they know we don't know,but they don't know either, but because they know we don't know then nobody will ever find out they don't know:)you know;)

[sleepyrascal]

Any updates on this transition?

I met a girl on Monday who is really keen to get involved in some runs etc so I gave her the NMS address. She emailed me saying she tried twice to get on but couldn't.

It's a shame to lose new members.

I'm not putting blame on anyone by the way!!!!! I'm just saying...

If you guys dont have the time to modify the site, perhaps I could source someone at uni who can. I have links with the school of Computing and mathematical sciences (SCMS) at The Robert Gordon University.

[Burple]

quote:Originally posted by minime

what ate you boy's talking aboot :p


Shoosh you.. big boys' stuff :p:p:D:D

That sounds like good new Paul! Wish I had some time to look into some of this stuff instead of chasing the nutty Professors around all day! ;):D

If there's any simple stuff that I could help with, let me know :D

[N12 JLK]

ok with me

[sleepyrascal]

Calum/Baddog etc... have you ever tried www.tech-tips.com? This is a forum where it would seem a host of experts sit and answer questions and give advice all day for free.

[The Dogfather]

Sleepy - Calum and Gaj have got this sorted now.

[Wul]

quote:Originally posted by bad dog mini

Sleepy - Calum and Gaj have got this sorted now.

What did they do?:question::clown:

[Monsta Mo Mini]

Nothing yet!

[sleepyrascal]

quote:Originally posted by Monsta Mo Mini

Nothing yet!


mmmmm i like progress! :)

[Monsta Mo Mini]

Will still be running Snitz, only using MySQL instead of ACCESS. Should be faster and more reliable.
The new server has been set up so it's just finding the time to do the conversion....I'm very busy at the mo!

Patience People!

[sleepyrascal]

quote:Originally posted by Monsta Mo Mini

Will still be running Snitz, only using MySQL instead of ACCESS. Should be faster and more reliable.
The new server has been set up so it's just finding the time to do the conversion....I'm very busy at the mo!

Patience People!


:D just kidding Monsta!! Your doing a top job as always!!! ;)

[euan]

Pah, sorry guys if I'd seen this earlier I could have helped!

[Wul]

MMM - not sure if you knew or not but the forums and chat roome were both down last night! :(

[sleepyrascal]

quote:Originally posted by Wul

MMM - not sure if you knew or not but the forums and chat roome were both down last night! :(


They are down most nights after 12 but then it only seems to be me that uses NMS beyond 12:30am so it doesnt really matter :disapprove: The joys of University work!

[Monsta Mo Mini]

Well past my bedtime...

I think it's most likely the ISP doing server maintenance. I'll drop them a line.

[Wul]

Calum - it was between 8-9pm last night when I couldn't get on.

[euan]

I'm trying to think if I was on then or not, as I was trying to get world cup tickets (me and 1/2 million other punters....)

[AndyP & Lenore]

To be honest, it's a fairly regular occurance in the Poole household: We get home from work at around 11.30pm. Site's down until around 1am-ish. It's the chat room too. The home page is ok, just the forums and chat room.