Formula 1

[Neil and Lorna]

AAAAARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH



Rant over

[Smurf]

Shocking behaviour for the FIA - they are the governing body, and should have taken control.
I agree that it was unsafe for the Michelin teams, but sorely disappointed that one team appeared to be able to dictate that such a farse could happen.

[duncan]

My take on it:-

The other teams have been using the new rules to shaft Ferrari make it more competitive this season.
Ferrari has just used the other 9's rules back at them.

Still, not an excuse for the farce that ensued.

[GAJ]

It was a ridiculous situation but I don't think that you can blame the FIA or Ferrari, the fault surely lies with Michelin; they did not supply their teams with a tyre which was suitable for the circuit, despite having previous experience there. The FIA took control and said that the race should go ahead after pointing out that it would be unfair to the Bridgestone runners if they altered the course. This is the line that Ferrari took too and I think they were correct. The bottom line is that instead of insisting that the FIA construct a chicane at the corner that the Michelin runners had problems with, the drivers should have been instructed to take the corner at a speed that Michelin thought was safe. If this meant that they were uncompetitive then so be it. Michelin did confirm that the tyres would only be safe for 10 laps at full race speed but that they would last the distance if the drivers reduced speed on this corner. Maybe not an ideal solution but surely better than saying 'we're no playing cos the Bridgestones can take that corner much faster than we can.' The FIA would have been slated if they had changed the rules on the day even if it was to improve safety as Michelin had confirmed that there tyres would be capable of completing the distance at the reduced speed.

[minidriver#1]

Everyones talking about the teams. Screw the FIA and Ferrari. 120,000 fans wasted a sh*t load of money going to see this farce. If the FIA had any sense they would have either constructed the chicanes and allowed the race to go ahead like that, the other teams even suggested starting from the pits and having the teams on bridgestones starting at the front.

The F1 has for too long been about money, the fans got royally shafted. The race as it was today was pathetic, had they bent the rules a little and allowed the full field to race on a SLIGHTLY modified track then the race would have been A. Competitive and B. a treat to watch.

This is why i still insist watching the V8/BTCC/JGTC etc racing over F1.

[minidriver#1]

Also, yes the fault lies with Michelin, but at the end of the day surely some sort of compromise for the sake of the sports reputation would have been the order of the day. today did more damage than anything else to F1 in North America. I totally agreed with the booing and jeering, but i was equally pissed off at the beer can / missile throwing, that was out of order... but other than that i totally agreed with the fans / spectators.

[Big Col]

I agree the fault lies with Michelin but the FIA are also to blame for the utter farce that followed. They could've put the chicane in, given the Bridgestone runners places 1-6 and then let the Michelin runners scrap for the rest of the points. That way at least there would've been a Grand Prix. It was a complete disgrace.

[Julz]

Totally agree with you KJ! I watched about three laps, thought 'this is pi$h' then changed channel to watch something almost as mundane!!:evil: However, I was able to do that, the poor sods that spent a fortune and travelled hundreds, even thousands of miles, couldn't!:evil::disapprove:

[bpirie1000]

tis a sorry day when a racing event such as F1 Can't get tehre fingers out the Butts and get it sorted.. Just how much money was wasted getting all the carrs out for the parade lap and tehn Put back in the garage..

mmmm

Say 4 Trucks worth of Equipment
2 cars Each Drive..
Bucket loads of Spares...
All the pit crew.
All the catering.
All the Fuel..
All the Entry fees
All the Vehicel Inspections.
All the Marketing
All the Crowds..

Just how many companies will be complaining that the cars didn't race.. and how much money do they give the teams for the Privelidge.. Never mind..

well see how many people go for bridgestone next year.........

[Smurf]

Yes, Michelin were at fault. But the FIA should have stepped in and done something so that what happened, didn't.
GAJ, there's no way you can tell the drivers to "drive slower at one corner" ! That's highly dangerous, and would have caused as many accidents as a blow out would have done.
I feel very sorry for the fans too, but I'm angry about the missile throwing. It wasn't the fault of the drivers, and hitting a full beer can at 180mph is potentially lethal.

[GAJ]

I agree that telling drivers to drive slower at one corner could be dangerous (even if the slower runners had been instructed to take a wider line or whatever, this is what the FIA suggested though, at the end of the day that's why they didn't race!) but to construct a chicane to give Michelin more of a competitive edge would not have been fair to Bridgestone and would have been interpreted as the FIA favouring Ferrari again. It was a farce and I can understand the spectators reaction; well some of it; but it was a no win situation caused by Michelin's failure to supply a suitable tyre.

[euan]

i don't think putting in the chicane would have given them a competitive edge - they would just have been able to race.

My take on it - put in the chicane and allow Michelin to run but in a non-points scoring role. That waay Ferrari get the points they wanted, and everyone gets to see some racing.

Most exciting bit of the whole thing was watching the two ferraris trying to wipe each other out in the race to lead into the first corner after the second pit stop. Could have been VERY amusing watching Minardi take to the steps

[minidriver#1]

How could the chicane give Michelin teams a competitive advantage?

[Big Col]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ

but to construct a chicane to give Michelin more of a competitive edge would not have been fair to Bridgestone and would have been interpreted as the FIA favouring Ferrari again. It was a farce and I can understand the spectators reaction; well some of it; but it was a no win situation caused by Michelin's failure to supply a suitable tyre.


That's why I say that they should have ran the race with the points for the top 6 places going to the Bridgestone runners regardless of where they finish in respect to the Michelin ones.

Hell they could've ran the race with the chicance and not awarded the Michelin runners any points just for the sake of the fans. I think BAR even suggested that since they're used to racing for no points. ;)

[GAJ]

The rules of F1 already exist though and they shouldn't be changed on the day. To allow the Michelin cars to run but not to award them points would have been even more farcical. To change any of the already existing rules would not have been fair. The question that should be getting asked is why Michelin did not supply a suitable tyre?

KJ, the chicane would have allowed Michelin to be competitive by reducing the speed that all cars could take on the affected corner, turn 12/13. That was the only corner that Michelin could not take at the same speed as Bridgestone so if all cars were slowed at this corner by a new chicane this would have removed Bridgestones advantage hence favouring Michelin.

The fault lies with Michelin in my book! I blame Bibendum!!;)

[euan]

I also agree that Michelin are stuffed. There's talk of lawsuits and all sorts.

[GAJ]

Some interesting comment on the debacle here. (http://sport.guardian.co.uk/formulaone/story/0,10069,1510239,00.html)

[Big Col]

Michelin put forward a proposal to fly in suitable tyres but the proposal required the consent of the Bridgestone runners. All but Ferrari agreed.

I agree the running with no points to the michelins would have made it more of a farce but at least it would have been entertaining. I still think they should have awarded the Bridgestone runners the top points (if they finished) and let the michelins fight for the rest. Either way that'll be F1 fooked in the U.S. Last year there was the Schumacher Barrichello parade finish fiasco and then this circus this year. Pathetic. I doubt Michelin will lose a penny in lawsuits though.

[euan]

I think F1 is in a right mess. The reason that it's entertaining this year is a combination of the Michelin teams having similar, competitive cars and Ferrari producing a slower one. I don't think tyres come into it, nor the daft 1 engine/2 race regulation. The Michelin teams have all taken points off each other in recent years and if you removed ferrari, it would have been like this for a few years.

I think the sooner they move to their own rules and regulations and let Ferrari race on their own with Bernie and Max in 2007 the better. They couldn't organise a chocolate bar in the cadburys factory.

[Duncan Stewart]

Very poor show :(. After watching some superb touring car racing I was in the mood for some decent F1 which I expected after the last grand prix being pretty good.
But found this mess instead - difficult situation but pathetic outcome.

[euan]

Duncan I agree - I think that's what made it worse in my eyes, the good touring car race and a great Le Mans as well.

I'm all for binning it now. In saying that, I'm off to the Goodwood festival of speed this weekend where some of these cars are going to be so maybe once I see them up close again I'll change my mind. (I went to the thing in London last year where they ran round Oxford Street, but could only hear them!)Here's hoping the weather stays good!

Having thought about it a bit more, in pure contract terms, Michelin are to blame for not taking tyres that could cope. However, the teams and the suppliers came up with a solution which the FIA and Ferrari refused to accept. That in itself is bad enough, but Bernie and Max should have put their foot down and let a race happen in some form. The fact that they didn't, for whatever reason (I suspect they don't like the balance of power moving to the teams and that's why) has meant that we ended up in the situation we did.

F1 makes a big fuss about safety and it's a safety issue that stopped the race happening. The FIA should have supported those teams with a problem.

[GAJ]

There is a lot of speculation though that Michelin knew that their tyres were not going to be as good around the banking as the Bridgestones which is why they didn't bring a suitable tyre or a backup tyre and insisted on having the chicane put in place to slow that corner down for all runners. There is bad blood with Michelin and the FIA at the moment. Don't ya just love a good conspiracy theory . . .:p

[euan]

That is a good conspiracy theory :)

Bridgestone have data on banked tracks as they supply tyres to Champ and Indy Cars, Michelin don't and aren't allowed to test to the Indy circuit, so they couldn't get any data. No wonder Ferrari were cocky about their chances.

Also, the Michelin tyre is more "aggresively" designed, so it has less tollerence, hence the Kimi flat spot incident and the Ralf crash. Bridgestone have more tollerence, but doesn't perform as well. Apparently.

[Neil and Lorna]

The one thing that is bugging me is did Michelin know that the track surface had been altered to give more grip for the American motor sport series. Because if not then surely the blame lies with Indiana Motorspeed Way.

I persume Michelin took a tyre the same spec as last years race.

You cant change rules even if they are as daft as they are after an event has started.

I suppose it would be like Tim Henman saying "My shoe supplier has sent me the wrong shoes,I need a 5 inch layer of clay put on my side of the court,or I cant play safely".The organisers would just laugh at him.(And he probably still wouldn't win ).

Neil

[euan]

quote:Originally posted by Neil

I persume Michelin took a tyre the same spec as last years race.

Neil



Well, did they? Like I said, they are being more aggessive with what they are putting out, so perhaps they went too soft.

The surface is an interesting one. I guess they must have known, but it's a very different surface to what they race on in europe and they aren't allowed to test on it, so perhaps not.

[euan]

See the teams have been charged by the FIA though...

“Failed to ensure that you had a supply of suitable tyres for the race.

“Wrongfully refused to allow your cars to start the race.

“Wrongfully refused to allow your cars to race subject to a speed restriction at one corner, which was safe for such tyres as you had available.

“Combined with other teams to make a demonstration damaging to the image of Formula 1 by pulling into the pits immediately before the start of the race.

“That you failed to notify the stewards of your intention not to race.”

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33211

[broken_brian]

what a big bunch of girlies the f1 drivers are imagine not racing because there is a risk of the tyres blowing out. the wsb and moto gp bike can reach similar top speeds and last season had problems with tyres blowing out at 200 mph plus and that didnt stop them racing. an d i think i would rather crash a f1 car that fall off a bike at 200 mph.

[Smurf]

Remind me not to EVER get in a car with you driving, with such a "laissez-faire" (sp?) attidute to life, and other's lives....
Each to their own I suppose, but I'd err on the side of caution and safety each time.
I am a big girls blouse though.

[Big Col]

Just to take Smurf's comments a lil further "BB shaddap yer talking p!sh ya rocket!!!" :D

[broken_brian]

oi b c away back under the rock you came from or i will set l n l on ya :evil:

and smurf yes you are...:clown:

[Neil and Lorna]

Anybody else on here going down to Silverstone for this years race.:cool:

I hope the farce last weekend doesn't put a damper on the weekend.:)

Neil:D