MJ Verdict!!!

[minidriver#1]

Jury has reached a decision!!! 20 minutes till the verdict is given!

This trial has touched me in so many ways.

Innocent!!! mon the moonwalker.

[Big Gordy]

The wee yin is dancing about to his album right now so I guess he's innocent then :p:D:approve:

[GAJ]

quote:Originally posted by KJ_innit

Jury has reached a decision!!! 20 minutes till the verdict is given!
This trial has touched me in so many ways.


You're not the only one who has been touched in so many ways by him.
Just shows you what good lawyers can achieve. :(

[Scottie]

I don't know what to think really but I know this his Thriller Album and song is one of the best I have ever heard great to listen to as is a lot of his songs:I:D

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ


quote:Originally posted by KJ_innit

Jury has reached a decision!!! 20 minutes till the verdict is given!
This trial has touched me in so many ways.


You're not the only one who has been touched in so many ways by him.
Just shows you what good lawyers can achieve. :(


Glad i wasnt the only one who thought about that choice of words :)

As for the trial - He slept with kids that weren't his, VERY strange behaviour.:mad:

[minidriver#1]

the simple fact is though, he's innocent.... and the jury was unanimous in its decision, on ALL 10 charges :)

ooo hooo!

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by KJ_innit

the simple fact is though, he's innocent.... and the jury was unanimous in its decision, on ALL 10 charges :)



Very true KJ, but his behaviour, that he has admitted to himself, concerns me.

And the picture shows where he dangled his kid out of a window :eek:

http://www.geocities.com/duncan_mckenna/CNV00018.JPG

I cant remember which window it was, but the tour guide pointed it out!

[minidriver#1]

lol. aye his behaviour is strange indeed, but proven to be entirely innocent. Also as for the window, i'd have done the same thing, after all there are verandahs under neath to catch the wee anes... just in case sh*t happens ;)

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by KJ_innit

Also as for the window, i'd have done the same thing, after all there are verandahs under neath to catch the wee anes... just in case sh*t happens ;)


Heh.

Thanks for starting the thread, it made me look out my holiday pictures from years ago to find that one. :cool:

[minidriver#1]

its a pretty good pic, i didnt realise that it was that big.

[The Dogfather]

KJ - You're quite right he's innocent, just like OJ Simpson and the Rodney King LAPD officers ;) American Justice a beacon to us all.

Society will still judge the man on the relevations regarding his private life. A grown man who sleeps and showers with children who are not his own is one sick individual. Mind you Gavin's mother must also be blamed for allowing her child to be put at risk the way he was.

[Monsta Mo Mini]

There ain't no smoke without fire. ;)

The result was no surprise - if you've got money you can get away with....murder;) in the US. What concerned me more were the hysterical loonies outside the courthouse...do they not have lives to be getting on with... a freakshow for a freak in every way. :disapprove:

[GAJ]

KJ, he hasn't been found to be innocent.:( The judge and jury was less than impressed with that Arvizo woman and the judge instructed that if there was any doubt then the jury should return a not guilty verdict.

There is a world of difference between being proven to be innocent and not being able to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

The facts still stand that he slept and showered with children that were not his own in a locked bedroom containing piles of pornography. He still maintains that this is acceptable behaviour and is entirely natural; the fact that even after the whole world has been shocked by these revelations, he still does not think that his behaviour is unacceptable worries me. I for one do not think that he is an innocent man.

[Mini Martyn]

So what will he do now??

[minidriver#1]

go to number 1. i just ordered some of his back catalogue to complete my collection. I knew people would come out with these stupid statements about being a sick individual, having enough money to pay himself out of his trouble etc etc etc. IMO your just as bad as the press ;)

People always want to bring a good man down.

Get over it.

[euan]

My two pence worth....

He was always going to get off with it as the mother is a bit of a loony and stuffed the prosecution case. As Gaj said, he's not innocent, just not proven to be guilty, which was largly down to her. Interesting how Jackson never took the stand, wonder if the defence thought he might do the same for them?

I hear he'll have to raise some cash now to pay for his defence team. To be honest, he looked a pretty broken man at the end of it all. best thing he can do is go and hide out in neverland, and keep away from small boys.

One thought - If your 40 year old single male neighbour allowed kids that weren't his to sleep your bed, you'd be calling the police...

In saying all that, if you seperate the music from the man, the music was (and still is) great. But i can't listen to it now as I can't help but think about the man.

[The Dogfather]

KJ - Question for you would you allow any of your children (when you have them) to spend time with Jacko alone, would you be happy with him sleeping with him, showering with him?

And do you think that this is exceptable behaviour for a 46 yo man?

[GAJ]

quote:Originally posted by KJ_innit

go to number 1. i just ordered some of his back catalogue to complete my collection. I knew people would come out with these stupid statements about being a sick individual, having enough money to pay himself out of his trouble etc etc etc. IMO your just as bad as the press ;)
People always want to bring a good man down.
Get over it.


Hello!! Planet Earth to KJ! Come in KJ!! ;)

[minidriver#1]

quote:Originally posted by bad dog mini

KJ - Question for you would you allow any of your children (when you have them) to spend time with Jacko alone, would you be happy with him sleeping with him, showering with him?

And do you think that this is exceptable behaviour for a 46 yo man?


I'd let them be alone with MJ, yes, but i wouldnt let them sleep with him, thats just my opinion. The parents of these kids let them sleep in the same bed with MJ, that doesnt make him a child molestor does it?

Question for you, if your found not guilty, what are you? and if your found not innocent, what are you?

The verdict on all ten charges was read 'NOT GUILTY' not 'NOT PROVEN'. Can it be any simpler?

[Burple]

quote:Originally posted by bad dog mini

KJ - Question for you would you allow any of your children (when you have them) to spend time with Jacko alone, would you be happy with him sleeping with him, showering with him?
And do you think that this is exceptable behaviour for a 46 yo man?


Ya beat me to it...
And if you're happy for them to spend time alone with them.. would you be happy with letting them drink from his Coke cans filled with 'Jesus Juice'?? Come on.. really.. Jesus Juice???? WTF sort of grown person calls any sort of alcoholic drink (yeah.. that's another one.. giving these children alcohol and DISGUISING IT??? WHY?) a name like that?
And if it's all innocent behaviour.. WHY? did he sleep and shower with them? Is this what normal adults do with children who aren't theirs? I know *I* don't!!

Think seriously.. if this was the 46 year old man acros the road from you... what's the reality? Weird Pervert? Or Mental Illness? Either way, this is not normal (normal defined as widely socially (morally?) acceptable) behaviour for a grown man..
I'm not saying lock him up, but he has problems and they need to be treated...

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by bad dog mini

KJ - Question for you would you allow any of your children (when you have them) to spend time with Jacko alone, would you be happy with him sleeping with him, showering with him?

And do you think that this is exceptable behaviour for a 46 yo man?


never heard about the "showering with him" before where did you hear that?? wasn't mentioned @ the trail was it?? cause they never talked about it on the mock trail programme that they ran on TV.

[minidriver#1]

Your entire argument is based on assumption. Dammit i'll admit i've slept in a bed with my best friend, but that doesnt make me gay. You can think what ever you want, there is no proof that i did anything. Its the same in this case... there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that MJ did anything to this boy.

Concerning the alcohol, he was found NOT GUILTY, so that voids your whole argument on that topic. AS for the argument about the guy across the street, if he was taken to court and tried based on evidence he is not guaranteed to be found guilty. Its really sad when people start assuming someone is something when they have no proof.

[GAJ]

The allegations of him being seen showering with Gavin Arvizo were heard at the trial as were the allegations that he showed kids pornographic magazines and internet pornography and the allegations that he was seen masturbating kids in his bed and the allegations that a 'sweaty and obviously aroused' Jackson asked a member of staff to fetch him vaseline. A lot of the court documents can be found here. (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/)

KJ, do you really not recognise the difference between being proven to be innocent and being unable to prove guilt? He was found to be not guilty, the legal ruling does not declare his innocence. The fact that he was found not guilty does not void anyones argument - the argument is that this would appear to be a miscarriage of justice, they happen at least as often in America as they do here, and apparently more so when celebrity is involved. The man displays classic offender beahaviour, the attempt to 'normalise' abnormal behaviours and the refusal to accept that anything that he has done is wrong. Alarm bells ring with me!

[Julz]

Why did the kids have to sleep in the same bed as him anyway, were all the other 700 beds in his mansion taken??:evil:

[GAJ]

What's the difference between Arthur Scargill and Michael Jackson?;)

[duncan]

:eek: I dunno, what is the difference between Arthur Scargill and Michael Jackson?

Edit:- i do know now :eek::D

Isn't Google great!

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ

The allegations of him being seen showering with Gavin Arvizo were heard at the trial as were the allegations that he showed kids pornographic magazines and internet pornography and the allegations that he was seen masturbating kids in his bed and the allegations that a 'sweaty and obviously aroused' Jackson asked a member of staff to fetch him vaseline. A lot of the court documents can be found here. (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/)




tell me is the details in the above link a proven fact or is it hear say & conjecture.

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop


quote:Originally posted by GAJ

The allegations of him being seen showering with Gavin Arvizo were heard at the trial as were the allegations that he showed kids pornographic magazines and internet pornography and the allegations that he was seen masturbating kids in his bed and the allegations that a 'sweaty and obviously aroused' Jackson asked a member of staff to fetch him vaseline. A lot of the court documents can be found here. (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/)


tell me is the details in the above link a proven fact or is it hear say & conjecture.


BBC Report of the "shower-gate" incident here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4414555.stm)

[GAJ]

They are witness statements that were presented to the trial. Like all evidence it should be judged on it's merits. Any eyewitness statement that is uncorroborated is obviously open to question. You have to make up your own mind what you believe has been going on at Neverland.

[minidriver#1]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ

The allegations of him being seen showering with Gavin Arvizo were heard at the trial as were the allegations that he showed kids pornographic magazines and internet pornography and the allegations that he was seen masturbating kids in his bed and the allegations that a 'sweaty and obviously aroused' Jackson asked a member of staff to fetch him vaseline. A lot of the court documents can be found here. (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/)

KJ, do you really not recognise the difference between being proven to be innocent and being unable to prove guilt? He was found to be not guilty, the legal ruling does not declare his innocence. The fact that he was found not guilty does not void anyones argument - the argument is that this would appear to be a miscarriage of justice, they happen at least as often in America as they do here, and apparently more so when celebrity is involved. The man displays classic offender beahaviour, the attempt to 'normalise' abnormal behaviours and the refusal to accept that anything that he has done is wrong. Alarm bells ring with me!


'He was found to be not guilty, the legal ruling does not declare his innocence.' Thats the same with any court case though, isnt it?

I've said before that he needs help, he's not behaving normally, but again that doesnt make him a child molestor. I frankly dont care if his innocence was not proven, the case was about finding out if he was guilty... and we've seen the result.

no one is attempting to normalise his behaviour, because you cant, but abnormal behaviour should not lead to assumption.

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ

They are witness statements that were presented to the trial. Like all evidence it should be judged on it's merits. Any eyewitness statement that is uncorroborated is obviously open to question. You have to make up your own mind what you believe has been going on at Neverland.


I believe jacko is wacko and a lot of folks have been out to get their hands on his money that the prosecution lawyer is obsessed with jacko and any parent that lets their kin stay at neverland are bonkers.

[GAJ]

quote:Originally posted by KJ_innit
... abnormal behaviour should not lead to assumption.


KJ, my job involves work around child protection, as a result I read loads of reports into cases where children have been abused in one way or another. Believe me, abnormal behaviour should ring alarm bells - although I agree that assumptions should never be jumped to.

In this case my opinion is that the verdict says more about the judge and jury's opinion of the credibility of the Arvizos as witnesses than it does about whether or not Jackson has abused children.

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop

I believe jacko is wacko and a lot of folks have been out to get their hands on his money that the prosecution lawyer is obsessed with jacko and any parent that lets their kin stay at neverland are bonkers.


I don't think that that is ever questioned SC.

However, with all the submissions and admissions made in court, i think the guy would struggle to pass any UK legislation for working with children.

[Burple]

Well we'll soon find out.. Unleash the Karma...
If something bad happens to him.. he's obviously guilty and deserves it in a cosmic sorta way!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

The guy's mentally ill anyway.. just look what he's done to hmself over the last 20 years..
Just goes to prove that 90% of america is basically stupid.

[Burple]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ

What's the difference between Arthur Scargill and Michael Jackson?;)



Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[minidriver#1]

dont make me moonwalk up and down yo ass

[GAJ]

quote:Originally posted by KJ_innit

dont make me moonwalk up and down yo ass

Next time I see you I do want to see you moonwalk! I'm too old and white to know what the other part of your sentence means!;)

[Heather]

quote:Originally posted by GAJ
Believe me, abnormal behaviour should ring alarm bells - although I agree that assumptions should never be jumped to.

I have to agree with Gary. His behaviour should have, and continue to, raise alarm bells. My work in child protection has shown me that there is seldom smoke without fire.

[minidriver#1]

quote:Originally posted by Heather


quote:Originally posted by GAJ
Believe me, abnormal behaviour should ring alarm bells - although I agree that assumptions should never be jumped to.

I have to agree with Gary. His behaviour should have, and continue to, raise alarm bells. My work in child protection has shown me that there is seldom smoke without fire.


It did raise alarms, the investigate and didnt find him guilty. Also, as you say seldom smoke without fire, meaning there are cases where thinks are entirely innocent?

[GAJ]

The jury didn't agree with your viewpoint -

Members of the Michael Jackson jury suspect he was a child abuser but say there was no evidence to find him guilty of the trial charges. Two jurors said Jackson had probably molested young boys who were guests at his Neverland ranch in the past. But they felt unable to convict him on the evidence presented in court of abusing 13-year-old Gavin Arvizo. Juror Raymond Hultman said: "I feel that Michael Jackson probably has molested boys."
Jury foreman, Paul Rodriguez, said he had not ruled out that Jackson had abused boys; "The allegations of past abuse were considered credible to some extent. There are not too many grown men we know that would sleep with children but we had to base it on the evidence presented to us. That's not to say he's an innocent man. He's just not guilty of the crimes he's been charged with. There were a lot of things lacking."

[minidriver#1]

Thats not to say he's guilty either :) Either way he's still a personal hero to me, and his acquital is a big F.U to, and everyone one that believes, the press.