The New Cooper S E

[MINI William]

Official pictures and details are now out.

HERE (http://www.motoringfile.com/2019/07/09/electric-mini-cooper-se/)

[Track Ali]

Range sounds a little low but then again I’m not sure how limiting it would necessarily be as a daily runaround. If you have a charge point at home then it shouldn’t be too hard to keep it topped up/ on top of the battery level. Other than that though I think it looks good. Really like the digital dash.

[CiderFex]

It’ll be a great city car or decent enough if you don’t want to travel much more over 100 miles in one go.
I do think that it will sell well eventually once the real world usage reviews start to appear.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[MINI William]

I really like it and could quite easily get a weeks commute with it

[Archie]

I think it’ll be a winner if it starts at 24k as stated.
The range wouldn’t work for me, but would more than last all week for my wife’s 15 miles a day.
I think the handling will be pretty good with that low centre of gravity.
As much as I hate to say it, being a petrol head, electric is the future. I had a test drive in a Tesla X P100D.. wow, fastest acceleration I’ve experienced in a road car...and there was 4 us in it at the time.

[MINI William]

Some more pictures and videos here. Same info however

HERE (https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0298292EN/the-new-mini-cooper-se)

[Stewart]

While a huge Tesla fan pushing £40k into a model 3 Standard plus for my yearly mileage would be insane no matter how much I’d love one. While BMW are 2-3 years behind the curve on certain aspects this looks a good start. For a compromise in the F series they have done well not to encroach into the cabin or boot space that’s limited as it is. Disappointed in the range - Yes. But they have ticked a few boxes with the one pedal driving and what looks like decent regen and driver modes and connectivity that so important. No mention of over the air updates or good servicing plan that would add to the appeal. It’s got a battle with the new Honda E and VW’s ID range granted.

The plan has been with me to drive the F56 till I do decent mileage on it or starts to go wrong from split new. If I keep it ten years that’s fine with me as it five year old there in April. ( April 2014) The next step is into a EV. This first gen Mini SE is a no for me and I say that from someone that covers some weeks only 50 miles. But to not have that ability to say go from Fort William to Applecross and back without thinking about charging or Glasgow to Scarborough in one go like I did last year is my own set bar. I do realise we have Charge-Scotland with charge points all over free to use. And the bonus of Whitelee (wind farm) chargers also free ten-minutes away.

If this was second gen and it’s that one I’m excited about the designed from the ground up and could achieve 260 miles real world it would be where do I sign. Yes battery design and density and chemistry needs to jump but that will come. Got to love that Honda E too to me it’s a retro MK1 golf.

I know someone that does a round trip of 49 miles commute a day. He got an incredible deal on a Zoe and has a free public charger 2 mins from his house. He’s put in I’m sure it’s near on 20k miles now and paid nothing out his wage on fuel to get to work as he puts it. His other toy is a M series BMW for the weekend and family trips.

[CiderFex]

There are quite a few non-complimentary articles flying around at the mo regarding the MINI Cooper SE.
The best statements that I’ve seen so far is “it’s little more than the i3’s technology shoe-horned into the 2014 Mini hard-top” and “it’s the car that MINI should have revealed 5 years ago”.
I’m being cynical here but have MINI held back a tad on the range and power so that it won’t adversely effect the sales of the iX3 and iX4 ?
Reading various articles regarding the new MINI EV is does seem that the consensus of opinion is that MINI have not really been brave enough with it and have just thrown 2013 technology into a 2014 car.
I personally hope that in a couple of years when they see how sales of the MINI, iX3 and iX4 have progressed that they are more adventurous and rethink the MINI EV so that’s it has way more range, faster acceleration and top speed.
Surely there would be a decent enough market for a more “JCW styley” MINI EV...


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Twisterboy]

I like it, ok range in my opinion is poor but most of the time this car would be going about the city, its not one you could take on a NMS Drive! This is the sort of car my wife would use to ferry the kids around as we're lucky if our second car does about 50 miles during the week, but also one I could use for my work as my commute each week is about 30miles and if I needed to charge then my work has free charging points I can use, one to consider in a few years time when the kids have grown up a bit.

Davy

[Stewart]

A couple of the first look clips. The second the best one.

https://youtu.be/I9Iq_H7FkuA


https://youtu.be/ioZexIy1T90

[Iain]

B*I*G article in Business section of the Times here...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/mini-electric-gets-green-light-for-november-start-lpqvzxb3q

[/ATTACH]8010801180128013

[Mon the fish]

I'm starting to wonder if this kind of thing might make sense for the Mrs, we can charge it on the drive etc... but not at that £££. And I'm not chucking £18k at a lease to have nothing to show for it at the end of the term.

I don't like spending £££ on a daily, so will wait and see what prices drop to over the years. Also, I wonder what the servicing costs will be - should be almost nil really. How will that pay for the glass palaces the main dealers live in?

[CiderFex]

I'm starting to wonder if this kind of thing might make sense for the Mrs, we can charge it on the drive etc... but not at that £££. And I'm not chucking £18k at a lease to have nothing to show for it at the end of the term.

I don't like spending £££ on a daily, so will wait and see what prices drop to over the years. Also, I wonder what the servicing costs will be - should be almost nil really. How will that pay for the glass palaces the main dealers live in?

The brakes will need replacing every 3000 miles due to their regenerative properties ?


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Mon the fish]

The brakes will need replacing every 3000 miles due to their regenerative properties ?


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

Mine need replacing about that anyway because I drive like a knob :p

[CiderFex]

Mine need replacing about that anyway because I drive like a knob :p

[emoji23]


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[M600-RKJ]

Brakes are hardly used on an ev. The 1 pedal driving cranks up the regen so you could potentially drive the car without ever using the brakes. The regen works by the recovery system applying resistance to drive train. A bit like turning ac on and off. We did 15k miles in our last zoe and didnt spend a penny other than the annual service to keep the battery warranty valid.

The annual service was a visual check, brake fluid change and pollen filter less than £100 at Renault

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[M600-RKJ]

Its actually quite a fun game to play anticipating when to let off the throttle/variable resistor. To pull up perfectly at a set of lights

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[Mon the fish]

Brake fluid moved to a yearly change, subtle changes to keep the servicing needs up

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[Neil - TXJ]

https://youtu.be/6csoYiUzltc

[MINI William]

https://youtu.be/6csoYiUzltc


Not a a bad little video. Gets a good review

[badwolf340]

Not bad ..very interesting

[nobbyclark]

As I've mentioned in other threads, I've got one on pre-order. Paid the deposit and now waiting for the local dealer to contact me to spec it up, which may be after this week's Frankfurt show. Bit concerned about the small range though. 144 miles in ideal conditions but when does that ever happen.

[CiderFex]

That last pic is VERY misleading.
The distances of the circles are “as the crow flies” and not the actual distances that you’d have to drive.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190910/5ffd9eb339438047fb8cecd3f81cb921.jpgThis means that there’s just no way a limited range vehicle would be able to get to a lot of them.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[M600-RKJ]

As I've mentioned in other threads, I've got one on pre-order. Paid the deposit and now waiting for the local dealer to contact me to spec it up, which may be after this week's Frankfurt show. Bit concerned about the small range though. 144 miles in ideal conditions but when does that ever happen.The new WLTP test for mpg and range are a lot more realistic than they were a few years ago. The stated range of our zoe is 180miles WLTP but we have gone to 200 on more than 1 occasion. In the winter you do notice a dramatic drop in range I think for the zoe it drop to 150-160 we got the zoe in March so haven't had a winter to use it in yet. But our last zoe with the smaller battery certainly took a hit in the cold weather

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[CiderFex]

As I’ve said for a while Elon Musk has played an absolute blinder with TESLA. He started to bring electric cars to the attention of the masses and to stir up rivalry between the big manufacturers. Meanwhile he’s been concentrating on building some of the worlds largest factories, he calls them “Gigafactories” to make batteries for future use.
I can see TESLA as a car manufacturer slowly disappearing and his grip on battery supply taking a huge leap forward.
I’m still surprised that hardly anyone is bothered with hydrogen fuel cell cars anymore though.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Neil - TXJ]

I’m keen on EV and even had a deposit down on a Niro but pulled it. Just couldn’t justify the price.

Current thought is to run an EV as our 2nd / small car. This means a range of over 100 miles should be fine.

Like the MINI but looks expensive (nothing new for MINI). Zoe an option but monthly battery lease takes away some of price advantage.

My current interest is with the Up/Mii/Citigo. Range will be c160 miles. Prices are rumoured to be 16-19k which looks decent, could be argued expensive for type of car but will meet our needs as well as the mini although appreciate different cars.

Happy with companies using existing technology / bodies but this should be reflected in price.

[Mon the fish]

Electric makes sense for your daily, but I don't think they'll ever become more fun than an ICE car for your weekend toy. Too heavy, and not enough interaction and character. Yes, they're very fast but that's a bit one-dimensional IMO - once you get over the torque, it's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast. I also couldn't be less bothered by the 300+ mph of the Chiron, as an example - just seems so irrelevant. The chase for more and more power leaves me cold. Give me less weight and less power, and more fun and interaction. What would you rather have - E39 M5 or the new Fxx one? E39 for me every time.

Have Mini published a weight figure for the electric Mini yet?

[Eddie_JCW]

Having driven an i3 I will now view any EV as incompetent until battery technology evolves. Unless you have driven the Porsche Taycan you can't say it is headlining, sorry Ali but as a fellow petrolhead you understand.

[Mon the fish]

I was listening to one of the excellent Collecting Cars podcasts last night, the one with Andrew Frankel on. Chris Harris & Andrew Frankel are the two journalists I most respect - they come across as real car guys (both own 2CVs!), and unlike the vast majority of YouTubers for example seem to value knowledge and depth of content, and don't just get their heads turned by the latest shiny trinket on the market just because it's new.

Anyway, about halfway through they started discussing EVs and hybrids - very illuminating from people whose opinions I respect, I recommend a listen

[Neil - TXJ]

I was listening to one of the excellent Collecting Cars podcasts last night, the one with Andrew Frankel on. Chris Harris & Andrew Frankel are the two journalists I most respect - they come across as real car guys (both own 2CVs!), and unlike the vast majority of YouTubers for example seem to value knowledge and depth of content, and don't just get their heads turned by the latest shiny trinket on the market just because it's new.

Anyway, about halfway through they started discussing EVs and hybrids - very illuminating from people whose opinions I respect, I recommend a listen

Chris is looking to buy a model 3 Tesla despite hating the Tesla ‘fanboys’

[Mon the fish]

Chris is looking to buy a model 3 Tesla despite hating the Tesla ‘fanboys’

And with good reason - EVs will make a perfect daily, especially for something like a big barge. The ultimate in ICE refinement, a large V12, can't hold a candle in terms of NVH to something like a Tesla.

But much like a barge, I just can't get excited about EVs. Respect, yes; but I don't think I will be getting up at 5am in the future to give the EV a good thrash. That'll be for the petrol-engined fun car instead

[CiderFex]

As most of you know I’m very “mechanically challenged” when it comes to cars but surely it would be beneficial if someone added solar panels to an EV to top up the batteries whilst parked up and also whilst being driven.
The roof and bonnet on most cars have a large surface area so they are prime places to add some.
I know that solar panels can now be made really thin and light that create a large amount of electrickery so would be perfect for a car.
I know that they wouldn’t be powerful enough to keep the car completely charged up but every little would help.
Just a thought...


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Mon the fish]

As most of you know I’m very “mechanically challenged” when it comes to cars but surely it would be beneficial if someone added solar panels to an EV to top up the batteries whilst parked up and also whilst being driven.
The roof and bonnet on most cars have a large surface area so they are prime places to add some.
I know that solar panels can now be made really thin and light that create a large amount of electrickery so would be perfect for a car.
I know that they wouldn’t be powerful enough to keep the car completely charged up but every little would help.
Just a thought...


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

I had also thought that, but read somewhere that they wouldn't generate anything like the power the car would need - especially with our lack of guaranteed sunshine. Then there's the weight implications as well, at height too

[Mon the fish]

Found the science I was remembering (from 2017 so figures maybe slightly out):

A typical EV has around 20kWhr of energy storage capability in its battery. (and getting bigger all the time) That means you'd need to feed it with a power of 20kW for a full hour to charge it (ignoring charging losses etc) from completely flat.

in the UK, with a clean solar panel, angled perfectly towards the sun, on a cloudless sunny day there is a solar insolation of around 1 to 1.2kW per square meter of solar panel. However, solar panels are at best, around 30% efficient (most panels are actually a lot worse, <20% often). So for each square meter of panel, on the best day, you'd get 300 watts power output.

Divide 20 by 0.3, and a square meter panel will therefore take 66 hours to charge your car from flat. And on a more typical overcast day, you can double that again!

Ok, so lets take a more typical half charged EV, that needs just 10kWHr of electricity, and say we get 6 hours of significant sunlight a day, you'd need a miniumum of 11 square meters (perfect sunny day) to 26 square meters (cloudy day) to harvest that energy requirement!

The biggest issue is that it's sunny during the day, when you're EV is probably parked at work.

Solutions to this issue include Work places installing solar systems (Prodrive, the famous motorsport company has just done this on their new HQ in Banbury btw, so it might become more common) or install some sort of energy storage at home, like a s/h EV battery, which is charged during the day, and then empties itself into your car (and house) in the evening/overnight.

[CiderFex]

Thanks for that info Gordon.
I just thought it’d be good as a “trickle charge” type affair and not for fully charging it up.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Mon the fish]

Thanks for that info Gordon.
I just thought it’d be good as a “trickle charge” type affair and not for fully charging it up.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.Completely agree - I thought the same

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[MINI William]

After seeing the SE at the IAA I was extremity impressed with it. It’s certainty something we would consider and would do a full week back and forward to work no bother.

[MINI William]

Looks like the SE has been to the Ring

HERE (https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0301880EN/the-new-mini-cooper-se:-in-green-mode-through-the-“green-hell”)

[Track Ali]

Looks like the SE has been to the Ring


This makes me far too happy.

[MINI William]

Interesting little read HERE (https://uk.motor1.com/news/377309/mini-cooper-nurburgring-electric-lap/)

[CiderFex]

I’m very concerned that they’d even consider allowing the public to have the ability to adjust the amount of regeneration in a car. There are enough people out on the roads that can not drive properly at the best of times and we just don’t need cars out there that encourage people to not use their brakes. If taking your foot off the accelerator is akin to pressing the brake pedal that means it’ll be stopping quickly with no brake lights to show the vehicle behind that it’s slowing down. If the above is used instead of the brakes it means that the driver is also not in complete control of the car.
It’s a massive “no” from me I’m afraid.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[CiderFex]

If the regenerative braking is to become a “thing” in future motoring I’d be interested to see how shunting accidents would be dealt with by the insurance companies and the Police.
The “one pedal” style of driving is easily achieved in a normal auto, if the car is driven sensibly, but there is the added bonus of having the actual brake pedal as well.
How would an emergency stop be carried out if there was only one pedal ?


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[M600-RKJ]

I dont know if it's that revolutionary of an idea the Renault zoe has always had an eco mode and normal mode which definitely feel like you regen more in eco.

I'm not sure what you mean by only having 1 pedal pete there are still 2 pedals. The 1 pedal driving is just a style of driving nissan have done it for a while now if you judge distances well enough you can slow with regen without having to use the brakes and the car will come to a stop unpromted a lot of evs will regen but wont come to a stop as they are still an auto so would slow until they began to creep like a traditional auto.

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[CiderFex]

Ah, that makes more sense Mark, thank you.
The JEEP I used on the road trip was an auto and would completely stop if your foot wasn’t on the go pedal. I’ve not come across that before and it was very easy to get away without using the brake if it was driven in sensible manner. I did always end up using the foot brake and handbrake though. I do fully understand the concept of engine braking and use it myself regularly but I do not think it’s a good idea for it to be used to the extent that the article is suggesting.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[M600-RKJ]

Ah, that makes more sense Mark, thank you.
The JEEP I used on the road trip was an auto and would completely stop if your foot wasn’t on the go pedal. I’ve not come across that before and it was very easy to get away without using the brake if it was driven in sensible manner. I did always end up using the foot brake and handbrake though. I do fully understand the concept of engine braking and use it myself regularly but I do not think it’s a good idea for it to be used to the extent that the article is suggesting.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.No I get that, braking is almost painted as a failure by the article. That is definitely regenerating to the extreme good for an eco marathon not so sensible day to day.

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[CiderFex]

No I get that, braking is almost painted as a failure by the article. That is definitely regenerating to the extreme good for an eco marathon not so sensible day to day.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Yeah, that’s true but a lot can’t drive without being able to adjust the cars mechanics so I dread to think what’ll happen when they can...


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Neil - TXJ]

Different levels of regen is pretty standard on EV and hybrid. Test drove a Outlander PHEV a few years ago and the paddles behind the steering wheels could be used instead of brakes. I understood that once regen was above a certain level brake lights would come on.

I’m the process of ordering an eGolf and that also has different regen levels.

[MINI William]

We’ve got Nissan electric vans at work and I love them. You can select the ferocity of the regen and one peddle driving is easily achieved after becoming accustomed.

The article above is only showing what can be achieved in an exaggerated situation,

[nobbyclark]

I'm pretty sure that when using the regenerative braking, it will also turn on the brake lights. I've driven a few rentals in Europe recently with adaptive cruise and they definitely turn on the brake lights when slowing the car down because I've seen the glow behind. I also think my JCW applies the brake lights if I reduce the cruise control speed via the button rather than braking (it's not the adaptive type).

[bodyshop23]

The BMW i3 I had put the brake lights on when you let it slow down by the motors.

[MINI William]

Motoringfile have posted a review of the SE HERE (http://www.motoringfile.com/2020/01/28/mf-review-the-2020-electric-mini-cooper-se/)

[badwolf340]

Would like a level 1

[MINI William]

I don’t think anyone really needs anything more than a level 1

[Macooper]

Best PCP deals on a 2 due to better residual values

[M600-RKJ]

I would be holding back to see if they do a hybrid or electrically assisted Mini. SE just doesnt cut the mustard for me, you would have to buy it because you wanted a mini and weren't actually in the market for an electric car

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[Stewart]

Robert Llewellyn From fully charged has got his mitts on a SE and a drive as well as a wee tour of Oxford.


https://youtu.be/xvrtgbSMKRg

[MINI William]

Robert Llewellyn From fully charged has got his mitts on a SE and a drive as well as a wee tour of Oxford.


https://youtu.be/xvrtgbSMKRg

Just watched it. Quite a good little video

[badwolf340]

Fair review of car ,will suit some people not all

[Neil - TXJ]

I’ve not watched yet

https://youtu.be/xEcq72gg4O8

[Stewart]

Jonny got a review up on it.

https://youtu.be/dyswzcDCjxE

[ELFMAN]

I’ve been checking out a few online reviews and I’m quite taken with the MinEEEE! It seems a great drive and while it’s obviously not the most practical EV choice, it’s certainly the most fun - proving it’s a PROPER MINI! The pricing levels are pretty convincing too, but I was worried to hear recently that the £3.5k Government EV Grant is going to be withdrawn, which seems insane. It’s probably a major factor in getting people into EVs, as it makes purchase a more realistic Mini World alternative to, say, a well-specced Cooper or a decent S, so why remove the incentive? It’s not something I’m seriously considering at the moment, but for many, the lack of financial incentive could be the difference between sticking with V-Power and switching to Volt-Power.

[Stewart]

The plug in grant I don’t think will be removed for a good few years the government is going hell for leather on green issues like just today dropping most of the red tape for new onshore wind farms when it had become virtually impossible to plan and get permission for new sites with the many obstacles. What they are considering is moving the goal posts to encourage better longer range EVs that don’t require as many charging stops when traveling hence not filling charging spots that are limited. The example being instead of just qualifying because you can travel real world over 70 miles on pure electric the suggested solution is to keep the current grant for Cars able to travel over 250 miles per charge full grant, Cars able to travel over 200 miles (industry standard) 75% grant, Cars below the industry standard 50% grant.


The only reason this Car simply does not work for me and I do low mileage is it’s not a second Car and I like my trips down South or up North. While I can do as little as 12 miles some weeks when it does go out to play it can do 200 - 300 miles round trip or in the one direction. When I have my F56 Coop nearly six year old on 22k miles I’d be mad to jump in right now on a SE. It’s a Car MINI should have done three or four years ago. If they crack 200 miles plus in the second gen and my Car is at that age it starts needing proper work then yes. Still fancy a model 3 mind :) Neighbours performance 3 is just absurdly good especially when like me I’ve been a EV fan boy since around 2009.

Of course we benefit in Scotland with interest free financing of EVs through our own initiative. Electric Vehicle Loan as they call it.

Thinking about purchasing an electric car or van? The interest-free Electric Vehicle Loan, funded by Transport Scotland (an agency of the Scottish Government), currently offers drivers in Scotland loans of:

up to £35,000 to cover the cost of purchasing a new pure electric / plug-in hybrid vehicle

up to £10,000 to cover the cost of purchasing a new electric motorcycle or scooter

The loan has a repayment term of up to six years. The purchased electric vehicle, motorcycle or scooter should be the only plug-in vehicle owned by the applicant and must be eligible for the 'plug-in car, motorcycle and van grants' funded by the Office for Low Emission Vehicles (OLEV) or listed as a category 2 or 3 car (except plug-in hybrid electric vehicles with a list price of over £60,000 which are not eligible for the loan). Second hand vehicles are not eligible, with the exception of ex-demonstrator vehicles that are less than 12 months old and have less than 6,000 miles on the odometer.

[ELFMAN]

Very interesting Stewart, lots of useful info there. Good news about the EV Grant. I heard a Government Minister on ‘Question Time’ or ‘Politics Live’ saying they were ditching the grant and re-investing the money in infrastructure, which seemed a bit counter-intuitive in that if folks don’t buy EV’s the infrastructure is redundant, so your news is indeed positively charged! I hadn’t heard about the EV Loan Scheme - another well kept secret... Combined with low interest rates it sounds quite promising.

Like you, I don’t do high miles in any of my cars (Mini/MGB/Fabia), but once in a while like to drive off to the Highlands & Islands, so I appreciate the ‘unrestricted’ nature of good old V-Powered engines. Although trying to find an open petrol station in the quieter parts of the Highlands on a Sunday - especially one which sells 98/99 Octane juice - brings back uncomfortable memories!

Speaking of ‘Old Tech’, spent yesterday ‘de-hibernating’ the MGB ready for its MOT and hopefully a decent Spring & Summer.

[nobbyclark]

I cancelled my Mini Electric order this morning. Change in circumstances mean that I may need a car that will take me more miles on a single charge than the Mini would allow and I don't want the hassle of having to charge mid-journey. So I'm keeping the JCW for the foreseeable and have ordered a couple of mods to make it even more fun, a Bluespark tuning box and a K&N air intake.

[MINI William]

I cancelled my Mini Electric order this morning. Change in circumstances mean that I may need a car that will take me more miles on a single charge than the Mini would allow and I don't want the hassle of having to charge mid-journey. So I'm keeping the JCW for the foreseeable and have ordered a couple of mods to make it even more fun, a Bluespark tuning box and a K&N air intake.

That’s a shame that the SE no longer fits in with your lifestyle. Looking forward to the changes to the F56 however

[nobbyclark]

Now waiting for a break in the rain so I can get outside and start wielding the spanners!

[ELFMAN]

It's been a long wait indeed for the rain to stop this year. :frown:

Fingers crossed Coronavirus can’t swim...