R53 brake upgrade

[will69176]

What are everybody opinions on a good value for money brake upgrade for the R53.

I read the R56s callipers are reasonably easy to install and a reasonable upgrade.

What are the alternatives?

Cheers

Will

[CraigR53]

I have been looking at r56 callipers, I hear they make a great difference.

Other than that AP bbk looks good and ofcourse you have JCW Brembos


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[will69176]

I have been looking at r56 callipers, I hear they make a great difference.

Other than that AP bbk looks good and ofcourse you have JCW Brembos


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Cheers Craig,

I'm swaying towards the r56 callipers because of the cost and because look like a stock item.

Trying to be disciplined and get the handling upgrades done before i get carried away with the engine stuff!

[stoney]

I havd the R53 jcw brakes the same as R56 brakes and they are me than enuf and I'm running over 200 at the wheels

[will69176]

I havd the R53 jcw brakes the same as R56 brakes and they are me than enuf and I'm running over 200 at the wheels
swaying towards that option, just trying to calculate the costs.

Out of interest did you fit our own?

[stoney]

swaying towards that option, just trying to calculate the costs.

Out of interest did you fit our own?
No my local garage fitted them as they where doing other stuff at the same time.

[will69176]

No my local garage fitted them as they where doing other stuff at the same time.
ah, ok.

im in two minds weather or not i should fit my own or not. :S

[stoney]

ah, ok.

im in two minds weather or not i should fit my own or not. :S
Dont think its to hard but it was geting a load of other stuff done at the same time

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[will69176]

Dont think its to hard but it was geting a load of other stuff done at the same time

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its not something i have done before, but i just watched a video and it looks fairly straight forward, ill probably give it a go.

my reason for buying the car was so i could expand my knowledge and learn more, so i suppose i should follow that through!

[Dobboy]

You don't need the R56S calipers on these. Apart from the fact it'll limit what wheels you can use they are a ton weight.

I've recently done my brakes, as recommended by a guy who builds and looks after mini challenge cars.

Mintex 1144 on rear
Mintex F4Rs on the front
High temp racing brake fluid
Good tyres.

You could use standard discs but I fitted Brembo Max.

Costs me about £430 to do.

The cars brakes are excellent, zero fade on track.

They work ok from cold but come in to their own when warmed up, but are a bit squeely nipping out to tescos.

I sold the set of R56s' I had.


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[Mon the fish]

The time attack guys run R56S brakes, I'd follow them. Definitely a worthwhile upgrade

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[Dobboy]

Maybe for an out and out competition race car

The R53 set up I use works fine for Knockhill, the same can't be said about the driver!


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[will69176]

You don't need the R56S calipers on these. Apart from the fact it'll limit what wheels you can use they are a ton weight.

I've recently done my brakes, as recommended by a guy who builds and looks after mini challenge cars.

Mintex 1144 on rear
Mintex F4Rs on the front
High temp racing brake fluid
Good tyres.

You could use standard discs but I fitted Brembo Max.

Costs me about £430 to do.

The cars brakes are excellent, zero fade on track.

They work ok from cold but come in to their own when warmed up, but are a bit squeely nipping out to tescos.

I sold the set of R56s' I had.


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cheers dobboy, I'm thinking the car need a bit of refreshing, its 14 years old after all.

so just to confirm, you swapped from r56 callipers back to the original ones?

[EcosseGP]

Personally have done the BBK upgrade I would agree with the above there's no need not even for track use. I did the upgrade for looks over function and tbh the brakes were OTT for the car but they looked how I wanted them to look.
IMO the R53 brakes will easily handle the power of the car without any issues if the set up is right. I'd go with
Stainless steel lines
Mintex 1144 or EBC yellow stuff pads
MTEC brake discs
Change the brake fluid
... and you'll be good to go.



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[will69176]

they certainly need some kind of refresh, my pick stops better!

[Dobboy]

cheers dobboy, I'm thinking the car need a bit of refreshing, its 14 years old after all.

so just to confirm, you swapped from r56 callipers back to the original ones?

No, I bought the R56S set up but when they arrived and I spoke to the mini builder I decided not to fit them.

No doubt the R56 calipers would be better than R53, with same type of pads and same type of discs.

But I would think my set up would stop an awful lot quicker than R56 with standard discs and pads, and I can batter round Knockhill for 15 laps without any problems.

You'd also be adding weight and rotational weight with R56 set up.

The only downside is some squeel at very slow speeds which I can live with.

My set up also allows me to put a set of 15" lightweight wheels on and sticky tyres when I go on track.

I know the standard R53 set up is garbage, but with the right pads it's a lot better and more readily available.

Not sure how much you can get the pads online but IIRC I paid £200 for them at KH.

You could always drive slower! [emoji50]




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[will69176]

No, I bought the R56S set up but when they arrived and I spoke to the mini builder I decided not to fit them.

No doubt the R56 calipers would be better than R53, with same type of pads and same type of discs.

But I would think my set up would stop an awful lot quicker than R56 with standard discs and pads, and I can batter round Knockhill for 15 laps without any problems.

You'd also be adding weight and rotational weight with R56 set up.

The only downside is some squeel at very slow speeds which I can live with.

My set up also allows me to put a set of 15" lightweight wheels on and sticky tyres when I go on track.

I know the standard R53 set up is garbage, but with the right pads it's a lot better and more readily available.

Not sure how much you can get the pads online but IIRC I paid £200 for them at KH.

You could always drive slower! [emoji50]




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you have given me plenty to think about.

Does anybody know if the R56 callipers fit in 16" alloys?

[Dobboy]

Ask the member Emicen what he thinks of his brakes as he should have the same pads.


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[CiderFex]

I've never taken 1499 on a track but I'd be more than happy to do so with my set up of:
MTec drilled and grooved discs.
Hel braided lines.
Castrol React fluid.
EBC Yellowstuff pads.
After visiting 1320 a few times and looking around various race prepped MINI's, some are 400bhp+, every single one of them had the standard JCW callipers fitted with various combinations of disks and pads.


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[Mon the fish]

Bridge spokes are I think the only OEM 16s that clear the R56S brakes due to the rubbish offsets of the stock wheels. Certainly the only R53 wheel that did, maybe some R56 wheels did.

Pretty much any aftermarket 16" wheel will clear

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[will69176]

Bridge spokes are I think the only OEM 16s that clear the R56S brakes due to the rubbish offsets of the stock wheels. Certainly the only R53 wheel that did, maybe some R56 wheels did.

Pretty much any aftermarket 16" wheel will clear

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thanks, i suppose i had better look for some new wheels as well then!

[Big Gordy]

Are the standard R56 brakes not R53 JCW :confused:

Oooops.....just re-read the first posts and Stoney does say they're the same :blush:

[will69176]

Are the standard R56 brakes not R53 JCW :confused:

Oooops.....just re-read the first posts and Stoney does say they're the same :blush:

as i understand, they are much the same. Thats what I'm going to go for i think.

On a separate note, I'm interested to know more about your 'tweaked' mini one. Having previously owned two R50's myself I'm keen to see what you have done. Do you have a link?

[Big Gordy]

On a separate note, I'm interested to know more about your 'tweaked' mini one. Having previously owned two R50's myself I'm keen to see what you have done. Do you have a link?

Nah....no link :blush:

Its all just mild stuff too be honest apart from the re-map :thumbs up:

K & N Induction kit, top strut brace, Eibach springs, drilled grooved discs, mintex pads, playmini exhaust and MTH's "Big One" remap(137 bhp)
I was gonna do the R56 to R50 brake swap as well but I missed out on Elfmans R56 setup he was selling a while back as they were a steal :argh:
I've just fitted new tyres tho which are Federal 595 RS-R's. I thought seeing as the missus hardly does any miles at all I'd try something a wee bit softer....:p

[Dobboy]

Just keep an eye on the Federal's, in case you don't know they develop very deep gashes across the tread, 4 I think, probably from the mold. Federal say it's fine but they can get very deep.


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[Big Gordy]

I'll keep an eye out for that Dobboy :thumbs up:
I took 10 year old (:blush:)Federal 595s off Mutley to fit these and did notice one seemed to have what your talking about on it......looks like its about to split :thud:

Big Craigs just got a set of these as well for the Panda mobile so we'll need to monitor them.

[will69176]

Nah....no link :blush:

Its all just mild stuff too be honest apart from the re-map :thumbs up:

K & N Induction kit, top strut brace, Eibach springs, drilled grooved discs, mintex pads, playmini exhaust and MTH's "Big One" remap(137 bhp)
I was gonna do the R56 to R50 brake swap as well but I missed out on Elfmans R56 setup he was selling a while back as they were a steal :argh:
I've just fitted new tyres tho which are Federal 595 RS-R's. I thought seeing as the missus hardly does any miles at all I'd try something a wee bit softer....:p

makes good power for a mini one though!

[will69176]

i think i have decided on a set of jcw callipers, the ones that are the same as the R56s.

the next question i have is about discs and pads. Which ones?

[digi]

for disks i think most would recommend m-tek in any of the formats (i have c hooks just to be diffrent) as for pads its down to what you want to use your car for fast road ebc yellowstuff (avoid red and green they are worse than oem )are brilliant but they are not so good for track ,other options are mintex 1144 or carbotech xp8

[Big Gordy]

makes good power for a mini one though!

Lol....yeah it does :laugh:
Really shows above 4K :thumbs up:
Don't think the gearbox would take much more as that seems to be the weakest link.

[will69176]

Lol....yeah it does :laugh:
Really shows above 4K :thumbs up:
Don't think the gearbox would take much more as that seems to be the weakest link.

Its not uncommon for people to swap for the getrag gearbox though is it? must be a large expense though i guess.

Did you have the car from new?

[Mon the fish]

Ferodo DS2500 get a good name for the mini, probably what I'm going to try next

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[Big Gordy]

Did you have the car from new?

Yeah.....May 2003 :yes nod: (still got it by the way)

Sold our 1987 Mk2 XR2 which we'd also owned from new ie 16 years. As you can tell I don't change our 2nd car much....:laugh:

[Dobboy]

What are you using the car for? What's the budget and have you thought about the back?

I notice that I can heat the back wheels up in mine, which makes me think the back brakes must be doing a bit of work, so I would be trying to keep some level of brake balance between front and rear.

I wouldn't recommend a drilled disc, and stay clear of cheap ones as I've heard stories of cracks appearing from the holes after they've had a few roastings. Grooved are usually fine.

Personally I'd rather put a high quality standard disc (Brembo) on mine than a low quality drilled or grooved.

I'd only worry about vents if you start setting pads on fire, which you won't do on the road.

If it's for the road I'd go Brembo D&P's all round with a fluid change.




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[Mon the fish]

^^ would agree with this. Brake ducts just aren't needed on a road car, unless you regularly have smoke coming from the pads. In which case you're driving too fast on the public road anyway...

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[will69176]

What are you using the car for? What's the budget and have you thought about the back?

I notice that I can heat the back wheels up in mine, which makes me think the back brakes must be doing a bit of work, so I would be trying to keep some level of brake balance between front and rear.

I wouldn't recommend a drilled disc, and stay clear of cheap ones as I've heard stories of cracks appearing from the holes after they've had a few roastings. Grooved are usually fine.

Personally I'd rather put a high quality standard disc (Brembo) on mine than a low quality drilled or grooved.

I'd only worry about vents if you start setting pads on fire, which you won't do on the road.

If it's for the road I'd go Brembo D&P's all round with a fluid change.




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It's going to be mostly for the road, I haven't done a track day yet but would be keen to give it a go when the car is ready.

Will swerve the air ducts for now then, maybe take a view on them at a later date.

The whole car is being built on a budget, but being 14 years old the brakes could do with a refresh!

For the back I was just going to replace discs and pads, with the same make as whatever I put on the front!


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[Mon the fish]

Brakes are a huge placebo area for manufacturers. On a small, light car like a mini you don't need 6-piston calipers, cooling ducts etc etc.

The stock rear brakes are fine - just upgrade the pads. Very little braking force on the mini goes to the back.

R56S/R53 JCW brakes are a good value, well proven upgrade and with decent discs, pads and fluid will see you fine.

In the unlikely event you turn into Seb Vettel and find them inadequate on track, you'll be able to sell them on easily ;-)

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[will69176]

Brakes are a huge placebo area for manufacturers. On a small, light car like a mini you don't need 6-piston calipers, cooling ducts etc etc.

The stock rear brakes are fine - just upgrade the pads. Very little braking force on the mini goes to the back.

R56S/R53 JCW brakes are a good value, well proven upgrade and with decent discs, pads and fluid will see you fine.

In the unlikely event you turn into Seb Vettel and find them inadequate on track, you'll be able to sell them on easily ;-)

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That's what I'm looking at I think. It needs discs and pads all round anyway, seems logical to change the calipers at the same time.

I'm pretty sure I won't find them inadequate, I'm used to driving a pick up!

I will probably swap for braided lines at the same time, is there a particular brand to look for?



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[Mon the fish]

That's what I'm looking at I think. It needs discs and pads all round anyway, seems logical to change the calipers at the same time.

I'm pretty sure I won't find them inadequate, I'm used to driving a pick up!

I will probably swap for braided lines at the same time, is there a particular brand to look for?



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HEL get a good name, but I suppose any would do

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[will69176]

HEL get a good name, but I suppose any would do

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They all seem about the same price, will go with HEL if that's the general feeling!


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[stoney]

I have hell and no problems with them

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[will69176]

just to confirm, if i go for the JCW callipers the correct discs size would be 294mm?

the hoses fitment is the same for standard R53 brakes and the JCW ones?

[craigib76]

Disc size is defo 294mm but the hoses are different
Think they are banjo ends and not the std screw in type

[will69176]

Disc size is defo 294mm but the hoses are different
Think they are banjo ends and not the std screw in type

Thanks Craig [emoji3]


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[Mon the fish]

R53 JCW have the same connections as stock R53

R56S, whilst being the same calipers, have a different fitting

[Big Gordy]

Some good info coming out of this discussion :smilewinkgrin:

[will69176]

Some good info coming out of this discussion :smilewinkgrin:

I know! Certainly making my purchasing a bit easier!

Are you thinking about doing this too?


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[Big Gordy]

Yeah....if can find someone doing an R56 JCW upgrade with standard R56 brakes going cheap :smilewinkgrin:
The brake feel on our ONE are terrible....well I think so anyway but the missus says they're alright ....lol
Just seems to have loads of travel before it starts to do anything. I've changed the discs, pads, fluids and had the whole system bled but still no difference. It almost like its something to do with the servo. Next on the list is braided hoses but can't see that making much difference to the travel. Don't get me wrong it still stops okay I just don't like the "feel" of them. Like I said earlier I missed Elmans R56 set-up which was going for a song which would have been ideal.

[will69176]

Yeah....if can find someone doing an R56 JCW upgrade with standard R56 brakes going cheap :smilewinkgrin:
The brake feel on our ONE are terrible....well I think so anyway but the missus says they're alright ....lol
Just seems to have loads of travel before it starts to do anything. I've changed the discs, pads, fluids and had the whole system bled but still no difference. It almost like its something to do with the servo. Next on the list is braided hoses but can't see that making much difference to the travel. Don't get me wrong it still stops okay I just don't like the "feel" of them. Like I said earlier I missed Elmans R56 set-up which was going for a song which would have been ideal.

Looks like it's going to cost me about £400 for an r56 set up in total.
Does it sound about right to you?


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[Mon the fish]

If that's new pads and discs as well, I would say that's good

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[will69176]

If that's new pads and discs as well, I would say that's good

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Yeah, m tec discs and Mintex pads with HEL braided lines.


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[Mon the fish]

Yeah, m tec discs and Mintex pads with HEL braided lines.


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Sounds good for £400. Calipers new or used?

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[will69176]

Used calipers, well reconditioned


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[Mon the fish]

Used calipers, well reconditioned


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Cracking deal then [emoji106]

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[will69176]

Cracking deal then [emoji106]

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lets hope so. Although, if anyone could **** it up, I'm your man!

[stoney]

I would say thats a good deal

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[will69176]

I would say thats a good deal

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Will try to sort it out next week then :D

[stoney]

Will try to sort it out next week then :D
You won't regret it I just back from track with mine and they took a pounding if any thing it was the fliud that let me down so that will be changed out before the next one. But apart from that they did great I'm normaly fairly good at setting them on fire but did not manage to do that this time [emoji38]

[will69176]

You won't regret it I just back from track with mine and they took a pounding if any thing it was the fliud that let me down so that will be changed out before the next one. But apart from that they did great I'm normaly fairly good at setting them on fire but did not manage to do that this time [emoji38]

Do you have any fluid suggestions? I won't be going track days etc, at first at least


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[stoney]

Do you have any fluid suggestions? I won't be going track days etc, at first at least


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I'm going for Motul RBF 600 Factory Line Racing Fully Synthetic DOT 4 Brake Fluid
You get it form here
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-894-motul-rbf-600-factory-line-racing-fully-synthetic-dot-4-brake-fluid-rbf600.aspx

Altho is a dot it's properties far exceed a lot of the dot 5.1 fluids you get.

[CiderFex]

I've used the below for the last 3 years and it's never let me down once.
Admittedly I've never used 1499 on a track but it's coped excellently with everything I've thrown at it up to date.
[emoji4]
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-742-castrol-react-performance-dot-4-fully-synthetic-car-brake-fluid.aspx


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[Mon the fish]

ATE super blue also gets a good name

[will69176]

Cheer guys!


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[stoney]

ATE super blue also gets a good name
This is another i looked at seems very good fluid as well.

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