MTH Powerchip Mod

[MartinSullivan]

Yesterday I successfully upgraded the code in the ECU of my Cooper S with a modified map supplied by MTH. This mod claims to raise a Cooper S to 195 Bhp but the real bonus is it cost me about 40 quid for the map, which is a one off licence fee which is tied to the ECU of your car. If I carry out any further modifications to my car – smaller pulley etc I just email Franz at MTH with details of the modification and he will provide a new revised map.

The other advantage is that I can return the ECU to standard, with a laptop and cable, and revert to the modified map as often as I like (good for dealer servicing ;) ).

Installation is basically a 2 step process, download the ECU and email it Franz listing what mods you have done to the car. Franz will then return a modified map back to you which can be downloaded back into the car. My modified map took about 2 hours to come through - but whilst you are waiting you can still use the car as normal. I did have a small problem, that left my car with no map in the ECU, but managed to get round it with another laptop – was a bit scarey for a while though :eek: At all stages of the process Franz of MTH was helpful and efficient in his help and support. I have since removed and replaced the map a few times to check that I have resolved the issue and I am now confident that it wont happen again :I

There is an article in the latest GoMini about a company called ChipTuning, they offer a map which is almost identical to the one offered by Franz for £500, plus you have to travel to them or one of their licensed dealers to have the map installed and removed.

In order to install the software in my ECU I had to purchase a special cable – which cost about 60 quid. Now that I have the cable I am prepared to loan it out or perform the upgrade for anyone that wants to give it a try for a minimal fee (beer and food usually goes down well :p ). On top of that you will just have to pay the licence fee to MTH.

Franz has maps for all models – One, Cooper, Cooper S, Diesel, CVT etc. He is also responsible for producing maps for most the major tuning companies – Hartge etc. He also has maps for the whole range of BMW’s and some other cars.

There are threads here

Mini 2 Thread (http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68508)

and here

NAM Thread (http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29218)

and the main MTH website is here

MTH Powerchip (http://www.mth-powerchip.de/)

I have only had the map installed since yesterday lunch time but I am more than pleased with the feel of the new system. I cant vouch for the 195 bhp figure, havent had the car dyno'd and dont intend to but it feels fantastic. The car feels much looser and picks up much better. Also the mods to the ASC traction control seem to have made an improvement. At the end of our street is a patch of cobbles, when I used to hit them in the wet the ASC light you used to go mad, this morning it didn’t even flash!!!

I will continue to update this thread with my feelings about the new map as it “learns” my driving style. The chip tuning article mentions that most people don’t notice the full potential for the first few days as the ECU is learning your driving style again and Franz made a similar claim but so far I am impressed :cool::D:):cool::D

[Steve74]

Do you notice the extra power in 5th and 6th gears? That's where the JCW seems to show it's extra bhp/torque.

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by Steve74

Do you notice the extra power in 5th and 6th gears? That's where the JCW seems to show it's extra bhp/torque.


I have driven a works and this feels so much better - but maybe thats cause it was 3000 cheaper :cool:

Read the threads that I have posted and you will see that there a lot of happy people out there. When I first read about it I was a bit worried that it was a bit like "the emperors new clothes", nobody wanted to point out it was C*ap - but I am more than happy :cool::D

[Eggy7496]

Sully at sounds awsome!!!!! i want to do that!!!!! so what would ur small fee cost?

i have one doubt - i enquired about getting the mine done at superchips at DG Sports in abs, he does them for superchips. i asked matt in john clark and one o the technical boys they said no matter what u do the map has a history that they can check to see if its been altered, is this right or are they just tryin to scare me off?

[Eggy7496]

will u need to tell the insurance, im sure u would but are you gonna?

[MartinSullivan]

I am sure we can come to some arrangement re loan of the cable or me upgrading your ecu.

According to the threads I posted Franz used to work for Siemens on ECU's and knows everything there is to know. Apparently BMW can only upgrade the ECU 15 times and then it has to be sent away to be re-coded. Franzs code bypasses all the checks and counters and hence does not suffer from this.

I am not making any promises but I suspect John Clarke are just trying to scare you off. I will have a look on Mini2 to see if anyone has had problems with the oneclick device - that has been around for a while, might have some feedback on that about whether it has ever been detected by a dealer.

With regards to your insurance question I cant comment :):p

[MartinSullivan]

There are threads over on Mini2 with regard to the one click in which the AMD technician states

"Because you can put back exactly the same program as which the car had originally - it is undetectable. Even when loaded with the "Modified map", dealers can't readily detect any changes using standard diagnostic equipment.

So, before taking the car for a service, simply set it up with the "standard map"!"

The one click is £300 and odd quid and doesnt offer more than a few Bhp for an S.

MTH sounds ok to me, definitely the way to go me thinks :cool::D

[Gismo]

Sounds very good, but with an extra 30 BHP you should notice the diffrence immediately, not after the car adapts to your driving style.
As mentioned earlier, your 6th gear should be much more responsive and should also provide more pulling power

It would be interesting to understand the main changes to release these extra horses ;)

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by Bonnie Scotland

Sounds very good, but with an extra 30 BHP you should notice the diffrence immediately, not after the car adapts to your driving style.
.

It would be interesting to understand the main changes to release these extra horses ;)



Bonnie

I have reworded my original post - it did sort of read as though I hadnt felt any real change - which isnt true , it feels fantastic. I cant vouch for the 195bhp figure , I havent dyno'd the car and dont intend to but it feels so much more alive. I havent had a real opportunity for a good long run over some good roads to really try and thrash the car - but I am confident that when I do (hopefully tonight) I will be able to report back in more detail on the feel of the modification.

There are some mentions in the threads provided as to what the mods involve and some things are mentioned in the ChipTuning article. Obviously they arent going to publish all their secrets, but their are some clues :cool:

[Eggy7496]

i want to get mine chipped!!! do u know what it gives the cooper?

[Wul]

Hmmm - Martin - do you intend doing a "plug-chop" on the car to make sure the re-map is not making the car run too hot etc - i'd be a bit scared of the re-map giving short lived gains by rubbishing the fuel mix to give gains without longevity of plugs and valves!

Be interesting to see how your economy pans out too!

[Gismo]

I would recommend changing your spark plugs to Iridium IK22's, especially if your car runs hotter.
Also, make sure you use Optimax etc, i'm sure you do anyway

I've never used a dyno and never will, i much prefer my own judgement over changes than thrashing my car on a dyno to confirm exact figures

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by Wul

Hmmm - Martin - do you intend doing a "plug-chop" on the car to make sure the re-map is not making the car run too hot etc - i'd be a bit scared of the re-map giving short lived gains by rubbishing the fuel mix to give gains without longevity of plugs and valves!

Be interesting to see how your economy pans out too!


Current reports in other threads are good for economy.

I know what you mean about the long term affects - but that is the same with any mods, at least I can revert back to standard and get it sorted under warranty :D

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by Bonnie Scotland

I would recommend changing your spark plugs to Iridium IK22's, especially if your car runs hotter.
Also, make sure you use Optimax etc, i'm sure you do anyway

I've never used a dyno and never will, i much prefer my own judgement over changes than thrashing my car on a dyno to confirm exact figures


Bonnie, car only runs on Optimax and I did think about upgrading the plugs - havent done anything about it yet, but will look into it. Thanks for the heads up on Iridiums.

Like you I dont like Dyno results - they are very subjective, much prefer my gut feeling as to the feel of a car.

[Eggy7496]

will it shorten the life of the engine?

[Gismo]

quote:Originally posted by Eggy7496
will it shorten the life of the engine?

Any mod will have an impact on an engine, it's whether you can cope with it if it happens that makes the difference, every mod i've done i've expected the life to be shortened somewhat, but, i don't care and i'm at 29,000 miles :D
A lot depends on an individuals driving style ;) if you tend to drive like me and be careful most of the time then you should expect a long and happy life
I'd rather do what i want and enjoy the full potential of the car rather than worry about may or may not go wrong
Latest buzz word around my line of work, "plan for success" :p

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by Bonnie Scotland
I'd rather do what i want and enjoy the full potential of the car rather than worry about may or may not go wrong


My sentiments exactly :D , although I wasnt thinking that when I locked my ECU up :I

[sleepyrascal]

This all sound very interesting. Isnt the one and cooper identical in terms of engines, other than the upgraded map on the cooper ecu? What I'm getting at is will this tecnique benefit the cooper as much as the one?? Will it benefit the coop full stop?

[MartinSullivan]

If you read the threads sleepy people are claiming improvements for the Cooper, basically from ironing out some of the "global" parameters in the ECU that arent important in the UK.

Happy to let you try it - for the sake of £40

Would love to try it on a One - might have to talk Jordan into trying it before he sells his :)

[CooperTrooper]

hey martin,

just so's i have this right in my head, you buy a cable etc, and then you pay for software files?

Im very inrested in this for my cooper, but i worry that u wont get much more than 115bhp from it :dead:

How much tweaking can be done thru this cable? or is it a straight upload / clear type of thing?

cheers!

[MartinSullivan]

you dont do any tweaking - the guy Franz will provide a modified map for your car including any mods you have carried out from standard

[KINGHORN]

i am very intreged with this but cant uderstand how u can get the best map for ur engine without having it on the rollers to see exactly whats happening,

[CooperTrooper]

Martin,

Been reading up on this all morning in work :evil:

and reckon i understnad whats goin on here, it does seem a little cheap tho', i mean surely he could charge a bit more without anyone raisin eyebrows?

anyways, im definetely goin for this, cos i love tamperfering with anything . . .

i see u live in aberdeen martin, is there anyone in glasgow who would want to chip in for a cable? and to compare results?

or is this thread dyin a death! :mad:


:)

[MartinSullivan]

CooperTrooper - glad you are keen to go for it - and even more pleased that you read all the threads that I posted, most of the answers to peoples questions are in there ;)

Havent heard from anyone in your area yet who is interested - but if I do I will happily get them together with you so you can jointly buy a cable. Or if you are ever in Abz, we could maybe arrange something - it takes 5 minutes to download the file - a few hours for Franz to return the map and a further 5 minutes to download back to the car.

[MartinSullivan]

The mods Franz undertakes to the ECU are almost identical to the mods in the modified map provided by ChipTuning in the latest Go Mini mag - but they charge £500 and you have to return the car to them to have the chip removed or modified etc.

I think Franz's price is lower than he could charge - but I aint complaining ;)

[CooperTrooper]

Cheers martin,

the next hurdle is a laptop, ive got about 5 desktops tho' and a window next to my desk in work! so im thinkin a 5m cable might be enough for me.

Sorry to keep pesterin u , but do u know of any other parameters can be set? i read somewhere that someone has turned on a beep at 30mph, cool gadgets like this really turn me on :D

[MartinSullivan]

Pretty sure you wont get it to work over 5m. Sure you will be able to find a laptop - it doesnt need to be anything fancy, in fact some people have found win 98 machines to be more reliable for this than newer XP ones.

that beep is the "speed limit" warning I think - can be set on the sat nav system.

Someone has asked Franz whether he can activate the dealer options - spot lamps, window options etc. Havent heard a reply yet.

I downloaded some diagnostic logging software, havent tried it yet - but looks quite impressive and I think it will work with the cable.

[macblob]

Damm that seems cheap!!!!

If i want a remap done to my cupra its going to set me back about £500.
Mind you dont know if there is more to take in to account with a turbo'd engine.

Wish I could get remap for £50.....would definately give it a go:D

[CooperTrooper]

martin,

we've got a couple oldish laptops kickin about in here, but in work, if i stick the car round the back, i reckon i can get it within 2m or so.

Diagnostic software? sounds scary, im the kinda guy that HAS to press the red button!, thinkin i might just order the cable up so i can get playing!

ANYONE IN THE GLASGOW AREA - CABLE SHARIN OPPORTUNITY!

:cool:

[MartinSullivan]

I'm like you - I love tinkering and finding out how people do things - mobile phones, xbox's , ps2's etc always like to make them work "better" ;)

Anyway good luck, I ordered my cable from the german site listed on the MTH site - and I received it within a few days.

[Big Gordy]

As with most thing's we're a suspicious bunch :p and anything that sounds this good for that kind of money means we will always look for something dodgy ;) It sounds too good to be true :eek: I've had a mad desire to chip our 'One' for some time but baulked at the 500 quid price tag to do it so this sounds like it's answered my prayer's :D Now how do I slip this idea into the conversation with the missus tonight mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm cunning plan required. I could always get it sent to juniors laptop and give him the money:approve: eureka:D Ohh but wait she might get a bit suspicious when she see's me going out to the garage with a cable and a laptop :p:D:approve:

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by macblob

Damm that seems cheap!!!!

If i want a remap done to my cupra its going to set me back about £500.


Its would be 500 quid for the mini from anywhere else

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by Big Gordy

As with most thing's we're a suspicious bunch :p and anything that sounds this good for that kind of money means we will always look for something dodgy ;)


I agree with you Gordy , I understand why people are sceptical - but I also think for forty quid its worth a shot.

I think if she caught you slipping out to the car with a laptop she would definitely realise that you were up to no good ;)

I have got an idea in my head to maybe organise a "chip party". Set it up with Franz at MTH so that we would get a quick turn around of ecu files and then do as many cars in one go as possible. Would need somewhere with power and internet access - not sure work would appreciate it if I took over our workshop for a day :(

[Big Gordy]

You're damb right there Martin :p For 40 quid it would be MAD not too :p:D:approve:

[macblob]

Hows is this guy managing to do sell remaps for £40 when everyone els is charging £500.
I could understand it if it was like a tenner differnece but £460!!!

[MartinSullivan]

he has no over head , he isnt installing it for you etc etc - plus I feel companies that charge 500 quid are "artificially" high priced , and try to keep it as a "black art" that only the initiated are allowed to do - which is rubbish!!

[MartinSullivan]

Big Gordy - and anyother ONE owners keep an eye on the Mini2 thread listed in the first post. A couple of guys are going to be chipping a ONE in the next day or two and are promising to post results and a video

[MartinSullivan]

Quote from the Mini2 thread re chipping a ONE with videos

"Hi guys, as promised we chipped a ONE tonight! What can I say? A complete different car!
Before it was good enough under 4000, but totally sleepy past 4500 to 6000. Now it pulls a bit more under 4000 and comes to new life over 4000, becoming very angry past 5000 to 6500 rpm!! My friend couldn't believe it was the same car! Obviously, ONE owners get the best results, since it is known One ecu only opens the throttle for 85 %.

Here are the videos, "save as"

Before (http://pholcus.altervista.org/3rd_gear_mini_one_stock.avi)

After ;) (http://pholcus.altervista.org/3rd_gear_mini_one_chipped.avi)

they are from 2500 rpm, third gear, on the same bit of road :)."

[Scottch]

Martin,

Can't seem to get the video's to work mate - can you check the link?

Cheers!

Scott

[MartinSullivan]

Sorted now, right click on the links and select "Save As"

[The Dogfather]

I haven't got the codec to view the videos, all I get is a couple of italians nattering!

[MartinSullivan]

yeah took me a while to find a machine that had it.

My machine has the video codec but no sound, guy next to me has the sound but no video codec , next one had both

When I get home tonight I'll try and convert them to something a little more "friendly".

[Big Gordy]

Martin I'm soooooooooo up for doing this :D
What kind of 'reward' would you consider for a loan of your cable :question:
My son (madmaxxer) is in Aberdeen during the week if we can come to some agreement on the cable hire but your chipping party sound more fun :p:D:approve:

[MartinSullivan]

I am trying to find somewhere suitable for a chipping party - need somewhere with a bit of space, mains power and internet access and a phone to order Pizza and beer while we wait. Am thinking about using the workshop here at work one weekend, but currently the workshop is in use at all times.

Drop me a PM and we can discuss the use of the cable if you like or you can wait till I manage to sort something out for a chip party

[Big Gordy]

Cheers Martin :D No mad rush to do it so I'll wait for the 'chip' party. Safety in numbers if you cannae get it to work :p:D:approve:

[MartinSullivan]

You all going to gang up on me if it fails????

[Duncan Stewart]

Having driven a One before & after chipping I can say it is well worthwhile. The One I drove was chipped to 130 bhp :p (with rolling road printout to prove) and felt great but different to my Cooper due to the higher gearing - smoother, effortless power but some how less exciting.
The owner of One and myself tried a "performance testing exercise" ;) and found the acceleration 0 to 100mph of the his chipped One & my Cooper was identical - probably due to the lower gearing of the Cooper.

[Big Gordy]

Sorry Martin 8) I didn't mean if you couldn't get it to work I meant me :p:D:approve:

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by Big Gordy

Sorry Martin 8) I didn't mean if you couldn't get it to work I meant me :p:D:approve:


:)

[MartinSullivan]

The Italians have posted more vids - another quote from Mini2

"More Mini One videos, "save as" xvid codec required

2nd-3rd full throttle (look at the speed, over 150 kmh in few seconds! , flat road)

2nd to 3rd (http://pholcus.altervista.org/minione_chipped_2nd_3rd_WOT_150kmh.avi)

2ndgear full thr (http://pholcus.altervista.org/minione_chipped_2ndgear_WOT.avi)

again 2nd gear f/t (http://pholcus.altervista.org/minione_chipped_2ndgear_WOT_again.avi)

Astonishing, don't you think so?


THANK YOU, FRANZ! "

Well seems like they are impressed ;)

[MartinSullivan]

You can download the codec from here

XVID Codec Homepage (http://www.xvid.org/downloads.html)

[CooperTrooper]

hey

how do you install that codec? :mad:

[MartinSullivan]

Dunno, I cant download it here - firewall blocks it, will try it from home tonight and post instructions unless anyone else has succeded

[CooperTrooper]

hhmm,

its a bunch of files n folders, but no executables i can see . . .

its never easy! :dead:


:cool:

[CooperTrooper]

by the way martin?

still happy with the remap?

[MartinSullivan]

Yeah, sorry - the link is to the development code - I will find the binary for you - bare with me.

Yeah still happy with the remap - ordered your cable yet?

[MartinSullivan]

try here, like I say firewall wont let me download

http://www.koepi.org/xvid.shtml

[CooperTrooper]

no, not yet, im scared :(

i'd like to see it in action first, or at least have someone knowledgable help me!

[CooperTrooper]

cheers martin, that worked this time. . . . .


talk about an italian job!, its too hard to tell from a vid whethere thats fast or not, they sound pleased anyways :p not that i know any italian. . . .

gives me ideas tho, get someone to video a mini skelping out the back roads, that would be cool . . . . :approve:

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by CooperTrooper
anyways, im definetely goin for this, cos i love tamperfering with anything . . .
:)


Was this not you????? :)

[MartinSullivan]

I admit its not necessarily the best way to tell how good the mod is - but as you say they certainly seem happy

[CooperTrooper]

ha ha, yeah that was me . . .

my pals a mechanic, he's sorta scared me off a wee bit, he reckons u shouldnt mess with this, but im gonna anyways

just got visions of my crying in the back garden witha mini with flashing lights / flames etc etc

u must have been crossin ur fingers urself, first time u started her up!

im still gonna do it tho', just not the usual right out the box in the car park stuff i do!

[Big Gordy]

:clown:Thats exactly my feeling too CT:D I'd feel a lot happier surrounded by people who know a damb sight more than me about this downloading mallarky. If I did it murphys law would prevail you can be sure :p:D:approve:

[MartinSullivan]

OK I'll continue to investigate the chip party idea, I know there are few Aberdeenmini'ers who are interested in trying it.

Would you be prepared to come up to Abz?

[CooperTrooper]

Gordy,

I see you stay in falkirk, im up for breakin ur mini, if u break mine! :D

[CooperTrooper]

martin,

s'pose aberdeen isnt so far away, is there a lot of interest up there in the remap?

i notice from this forum, u should rename it the aberdeen mini forum!

aberdeen must be mini central!

:)

[CooperTrooper]

Gordy,

noticed your a draughtsman, me too! surely 2 smart draffys can figure out how to chip a wee car! :D

[Big Gordy]

C/T might look a bit suspicious if they had to come out and re-programme a bunch of mini's all at the same time :p
I would make the effort for the chip party if it was in Aberdeen :D

[redpoint rallying]

Martin,

Havent got a reply back from MTH website re the rally car. Do you have an email address for Franz?

Cheers

[MartinSullivan]

Just the info one on the site. I am not sure if his english is 100%, if you are asking heaps of questions you might be best contacting ALEXN in the mini2 thread and see if he can ask the questions for you - i believe he speaks german

[Big Gordy]

C/T I've got two broken scramblers in my garage :dead: I don't want to add the mini to the list :p:D:approve:

[Nick]

DO MTH do anything for the works s???

I need more power already....

[MartinSullivan]

A few people have asked Franz to look at the works S code, not sure what the results have been yet. Will let you know if I hear anything

[Scottch]

Martin,

I reckon you've had the mod done for just over a week now?

How does it feel now you've had some more time to get used to it?
It's a bit silly to ask but, how has it affected your fuel economy?

I think I've almost talked the wife round to this when our MCS gets run in (due here in around 4 weeks) and I've planted the seed with a good mate who is also buying a new MCS and is expecting it early December.

I'm a little fuzzy on the whole ordering/registration process - Franzs' website hasn't helped me much either. Would we need to buy the cable with the box thingy or just a cable? Then Franz e-mails the modified software?

Sorry for all the Q's mate - I can't make head or tails of it

Cheers!

Scott

[MartinSullivan]

Mod still feels fantastic - I am just back from a long drive down and back to Manchester. Car feels fantastic, definitely much looser and more get up and go in 5th and 6h gear. Fuel consumption is also marginally better I reckon - used to have to refill the car about 100 miles short of my house - got to within 75 miles this time before low fuel light came on.

The cable comes with a "box thingy", this interfaces the RS232 from your PC to the ODBII interface of your car. What you need to decide is if you want a USB one or a serial port one - which depends on what pc you are going to use. My new shiny laptop has no serial ports so I got a USB one. You can get USB to serial port convertors from Maplin - but some people have reported problems using these with the Cartune software.

Once you have your cable -

Register on Franzs site - you can do that now if you want
Download the Cartune software from the members area
Follow the instructions on Mini2 - brief details here

Connect the cable from laptop to car
Download the ECU using the cartune software
Email to Franz
On its return reload it back to the ECU

At one stage you will need use your VIN number to register the software - this is where you will have to pay your one of fee to Franz.

Hope this helps
PM me if you any other questions.

Martin

[ELFMAN]

S'cuse me for being a bit of killjoy here, but if it's possible to gain a 30BHP hike to 195BHP on an 'S' with a "simple" ECU upgrade (for £40.00!?!) and NOTHING else, then why are all those modded (eg 'Works'/'Hartge'/BBR) cars with ECU's, Uprated 'Charger Pulleys, Heads, Filters and Exhausts 'only' making around the 200-220BHP mark? Is there a reason for this? Longevity? Accurate verifiable power readings? If this 'MTH' prog. actually delivers, then there are going to be a lot of really pissed off Newminiscotland members out there who've gone to one of the above Tuners.....OR if they get a new programme from Franz if he can do one, will they see 250BHP?

I know the ONE's power can be upped to COOPER levels as the only difference is the programming, but this just seems too good to be true for the 'S'. If it is true, then make sure it doesn't go BANG, like all those Chip-tuned Cossies used to, as the tolerances must be fairly marginal. What long-term testing has the guy done? Is it a flash in the pan (or under your bonnet)?

I'd like to see an INDEPENDENT test on this - maybe as a club we could get 'Go-Mini' or another modding mag to run comparisons under controlled conditions. Call me cynical, but if all the other "Chip Only" mods are making 8-10BHP on an 'S', then this guy should get a Nobel Prize, and he's just put ALL the other tuners out of business. This would also mean that BMW had presumably electronically "Detuned" the 'S' unit as much as they had with the ONE. Which means that they KNOW that the JCW Works kit is a complete rip-off, which it must be if nearly 200BHP can be "unlocked" just like that with no catastophic after-effects.

However, my experience is that if something seems too good to be true, it usually is, but I stand to be corrected. Time will tell......

[MartinSullivan]

http://www.chiptuninguk.com/chiptuning/frames_mini.asp offer a remap of an S which is supposed to give 195 bhp from an S. This was tested in Go Mini this month and received favourable results - how much do they charge??? £500.

You pay your money, you takes your chance!

[ELFMAN]

Just read the "Chip Tuning" article in "Go MINI". Hmmm. 195BHP seems to be a popular figure, eh? Obviously vast difference in price, though. £560 difference to be precise.... somebody's 'avin a laff.

If these upgrades were PROPERLY TESTED and VERIFIED in Go-MINI I'd be more convinced - maybe I'm just old fashioned.(They ran a simple back-to-back acceleration test against the stopwatch with a few 'S's way back at the start, but they don't seem to go in for 'proper' testing much). I still think they tend to be a bit biased in favour of the manufacturer of whatever's in the article rather than being purely objective - ie, they often seem to just accept what they're being told, and pass it on to the reader. OK, it felt "Noticably Stronger", but that's a subjective opinion from a short test drive. Why didn't they put a stopwatch on it and get some "before and after" in-gear times etc? 25BHP and 22Lb ft Torque should make a noticable difference to times, so why not do it? Also with the rather "linear" delivery of the Supercharged engine, things can be deceptive. Without this it's all just "Bench Racing".

If "Evo" Magazine ran one of their comprehensive tests on it, (like they did with all the modified COOPER/'S's a while back) I'd believe them, because they don't seem to mind who they piss off! I wonder what BBR, Hartge, BMW/JCW et al think about this new-found "miracle power"? They're either laughing out loud or bricking it. If I get time, I'm going to try and find out.

[ELFMAN]

Right, just sent off this letter to "EVO" magazine wonder if it'll stir anything.........?

I've recently come across a couple of companies offering 195BHP/180+Lbft with ONLY an ECU Remap.

Various tuning companies (eg John Cooper Works/BMW, BBR, Hartge, AMD etc) offering 200 - 220BHP have been using: ECU Upgrade, Uprated 'Charger Pulley, Exhaust and sometimes a re-worked Cylinder Head. Prices vary for this work from around the £1,200 mark to almost £4,000 for the JCW kit (pricey - but which obviously replaces the Supercharger, and comes fully BMW - approved).

One of these ECU Re-Mappers is a company called “Chiptuning” (www.chiptuninguk.com) who offer 195BHP and182+Lbft for £590.00 fitted , but the other one I've heard of is a German outfit called “MTH Powerchip” working through the Internet. (www.mth-powerchip.de). You require a Laptop and appropriate cabling, but he'll (allegedly) provide a 195BHP Remap for - wait for it - £40.00!!!!

Now this raises a few questions. Call me cynical, but IF 195BHP is available with only an ECU Re-map, why are we paying more and fitting more complicated modifications for only a few BHP more? If you can liberate 25BHP and loads of Torque form the 'S' by Remapping, does this mean that BMW have electronically “detuned” the motor as they did with the MINI ONE/COOPER unit, then allowed owners to pay almost £4,000 for the ‘Works’ 200BHP?

I'm highly sceptical about “Miracle” power gains, but if this proves to be a true reliable increase, surely this knocks the MINI tuning world (a HUGE global business now) on its head. Why have none of the 'established' tuners brought out ECU Remaps to give this type of increase - surely they've investigated this thoroughly? Reliability issues, or the fact it can't be done... I mean it beggars belief if ‘S’ owners can access 5BHP less than the JCW for a stunning £3,860 LESS. There are Threads on www.mini2.com and www.newminiscotland.co.uk (I’m a member of this excellent club).

Evo ran an excellent comparison test with nearly every modified COOPER and 'S' a while back, which was both detailed and objective (as usual!). I'd love to see a properly figured Evo “Shoot Out” between say, the BBR or COOPER Works and a couple of these ECU Remap cars. Then we'd know for sure. What do you think? PLEASE investigate this! Miracle or Scam? I think we should be told.

[MartinSullivan]

Would be interested if they did do a shoot-out (someone in the MINI2 thread is trying to organise a dyno day of all the different mods to compare results) - but I stick by what I said , I am impressed with the re-map, cant vouch for the claimed 195 BHP as its never (and never will) be rolling roaded.

I am hoping to apply the mods to RedPointRallying's Cooper before his next rally. This should give us a good idea of how effective the mods are - from his rallying experience he has a good feel for the car. Unfortunately its a Cooper so we may not see so much of a difference - but will still be interesting.

If you look through the NAM threads and MINI2 threads I listed there are some dyno results posted but I dont hold too much by dyno results - would rather feel how the car operates myself and come to my own decision.

The tuners you mention (apart from the JCW which most people would agree is over priced, but does retain your warranty) in addition to the remap include a reduced pulley etc - and typically start about 220Bhp, so I dont agree that with a map on its own it would not be possible to reach 195BHP. Pulley figures are normally quoted as 20 to 25 BHP for a 17% reduction pulley - so where does the remainder of the uplift come from ??? The remap?

I am not here to sell or defend the mod to anyone - I just wanted to make sure that people were aware of the "options" in the spirit of the community :)

[ELFMAN]

Cheers Martin,
I reserve the right to remain the sceptical Devil's Advocate, just my nature and experience of false horsepower promises, but I'm not saying that the Map DOESN'T produce the 25BHP etc.

My main thrust ("oo-er Missus!" etc) is (see above) that I find it “thought-provoking” to say the least that if it does, then MINI people have been paying through the nose for small gains from, say, "Superchips" etc, and further up the ladder, 200BHP from JCW and (admittedly better value) 210BHP from Hartge etc. If the £40.00 MTH Remap DOES produce 195 reliable BHP, that's nothing short of ("Fast Show" voice) BRILLIANT!!!! and very good news for MINI owners but should be very bad news for a lot of Tuners out there. Especially "Chiptuning".....

According to the figures and some mild speculation, with the above remap, a good exhaust system & manifold (Playmini) and a K&N panel filter, you could be looking at (a fantastic sounding) 215BHP for about £900.00 which is I reckon as much as you'll ever need in the real world. I'm open to persuasion and know you shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, but it doesn't stop me from wanting to see the dental records! I'll see if "EVO" comes up with anything. Enjoy the car in the meantime and keep us informed.

[MartinSullivan]

:) no probs, I know what you mean about being sceptical. I am always sceptical about companies that try to keep things as a "black art" and charge through the nose for it - thats what I like about the MTH mod, you can do it yourself.

Hopefully EVO will come out with something - if not then maybe some results from redpoint will give us a good test.

Things are quietening down with work now so those of you who are waiting for an Aberdeen chip party I will look into sorting something out.

[weefozzy Jr]

woohoo i'll bring salt, some chippy sauce and my cooper. its worth the drive there so i can have fun on the way back......see if i can get the old man to bring the s

[MartinSullivan]

Ok weefozzy Jnr - look forward to seeing you there!!! :)

I have emailed franz about getting between 5 and 10 cars done with a quick turn around. Apparently he has been having problems with his email and has got a bit of a back log now - but he has now created a quicker way to send the files to him via his website - so once he clears the back log we should be game on!!!!

I'll keep you all posted

[weefozzy Jr]

cheers martin, i'll keep an eye out for more info.

[Big Gordy]

Spot on Martin :p Keep us posted :p:D:approve:

[macblob]

Just had my Leon Cupra on the rolling rd @ Starperformance just outside Kirkcaldy today.
Was up to meet some folk from the seat forums (couldnt live without car meets etc.)

Was well pleased with the results. For a standard 1.8L 20V Turbo (180bhp in the book).
197 BHP at the crank @ 6060 rpm
151.5 BHP at the wheels
191 LBF -FT of torque @ 3170 rpm

Wooohoooo nearly touching 200 BHP, with a custom remap would be looking at around 230 BHP.:D:D:D

[Duncan Stewart]

I thought Turbo / Supercharged cars were not allowed on rolling roads? (due to possible engine damage)

[MartinSullivan]

Well I MTH'd Redpoint Rallyings Rally Cooper on Friday/Saturday. Download the file friday night and emailed it to Franz at about 8:00PM and received the modified map back about 11:00PM.

Reloaded the map back into the car saturday afternoon. Fired the car up and it started up fine. Cant test the car just yet but Martin of Redpoint is hoping to give it a test prior to the next rally in November. Hoping that once Franz has cleared his backlog we can ask him to taylor the map to suit the operation of the rally car.

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by Duncan Stewart

I thought Turbo / Supercharged cars were not allowed on rolling roads? (due to possible engine damage)


I have heard bad things about the effects of running supercharged cars on rolling roads - but people still do it. The new 4x4 Dastek road at Wallace performance in Aberdeen claims to be able to handle supercharged cars - but I still wont be risking it ;)

[Big Gordy]

Martin I see from one of the other threads that your planning on having your 'chip' party early in November. What date are you thinking about:question: Unfortunately the only weekend 'I'm free'(said in a John Inman voice:D)in November is the 20th/21st:( :p:D:approve:

[MartinSullivan]

Looks like I will be aiming for the 20th/21st then doesnt it!!!! :)

Franz has gone quiet again - but I will suggest that date to him.

[Big Gordy]

You have it any time you want buddy :D as I've said before my son Ross is in Aberdeen during the week so we could always borrow (with the appropriate fee of course;)) the cable if that weekend didn't suit everybody involved :p:D:approve:

[Big Gordy]

Martin, looks like I may need this weekend to build mini mini's :( :p:D:approve:

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by Big Gordy

Martin, looks like I may need this weekend to build mini mini's :( :p:D:approve:


Sorry mate :(

Its looking like its going to be December anyway - still in negotiations with Franz

[Sheilz]

Hi Martin, Are you still happy with your chip? Any problems identified etc.etc? Am just being nosey!
:D:D:D

[MartinSullivan]

quote:Originally posted by Sheilz

Hi Martin, Are you still happy with your chip? Any problems identified etc.etc? Am just being nosey!
:D:D:D


Still more than happy with it :D

[MartinSullivan]

Right guys I have finally managed to get Franz to give me the go ahead for this - but in order for it to be worthwhile for him I need a minimum of 5 cars for him to guarantee a swift turnaround. What I was planning was meet in Aberdeen about 10:30 , download all the cars and email the files in. Go for a wee cruise and maybe some lunch and then return to the base and download the revised files back into the cars. Go back out for another wee cruise to check everything is ok and then everyone heads back home , hopefully with big grins on their faces.

I am on standby to go to china at the moment - so if that happens I will hand the chipping over to my "apprentice" who has been fully trained by me in all stages of the mod :)


Can people that are interested please vote for their favourite 3 dates in order of preference (best date first) from

Sat 27th Nov
Sun 28th Nov
Sat 4th Dec
Sun 5th Dec
Sat 11th Dec
Sun 12th Dec
Sat 15th Jan 2005
Sun 16th Jan 2005

Like I say I need a minimum of 5 cars to get this off the ground. I wont be charging anything for my time or use of the cable - so the only fees will be the payment to MTH (approx 40 quid).

[weefozzy Jr]

martin the 11th would be great(looks over shoulder for parents or bmw dealers)as i would be able to make it back. also i cant wait after my last reading on a ******* ****.

[Moonshine]

I'm interested in getting the powerchip mod for my cooper....but unfortunately i'm on the west coast. Is there anyone who would be prepared to loan me the cable for a little while til i ugrade the car? otherwise i'll just have to buy a cable myself.

any help would be greatly appreciated.

Gerry

[Moonshine]

Can anyone help?
Ive downloaded the map from the car and saved it to my laptop and i'm about to send it to franz - however the upload page is looking for two files??
what are they? or is one enough?

Gerry

[MartinSullivan]

You have to send him the org file which is your original map and the MIM file which shows that you have paid for and registered your VIN number

[Moonshine]

aha!!

was i supposed to enter me key number in the blie box prior to downloading the map, or is this kust required to be entered on uploading the new map?

sorry

g

[MartinSullivan]

Thats just required when you go to download the new map - have you got your key code from the site already??? Did you definitely enter your VIN correctly - its worth opening the MIM file and having a look at the txt file inside it , it should have your vin stored in it

[Moonshine]

i have the key written down. i wondered because i opened the MIM file and noticed the key field was blank. I'll enter the key when i upload the map

Gerry

[MartinSullivan]

Yeah thats fine, you can either type it into the field you saw in the file , or you can enter it via the cartune software. Take it the download went fine then ?, which is good - if that went smoothly then usually the upload back to the ecu goes fine too.

[Moonshine]

yeah, the download seemed to go OK, however i'm not sure that the email to franz went as smoothly. Once i filled in the fields on the form and pressed submit, i was redirected back to the form. Is this usual or does this indicate that i have made an error somewhere?

Gerry

[MartinSullivan]

Did you get some kind of message (probably in German)???? Try resending it. If it said Sie müssen zwei Dateien auswählen" it means you didnt select two files. If it comes up with a german message let me know what it says via email