more info on the f56

[KenL]

http://www.motoringfile.com/2012/11/27/new-f56-spy-shots-confirm-rocketman-style-headlights/

MINI has some history of giving away real cars in their concepts. Will the f56 looks be along the lines of the rocketman?

[Gismo]

Hmm, not sure on this if i like the look or the concept

[Stewart]

Put that up yesterday on TM. I'm more then happy the lights are still round just not too keen on Chinsy light surrounds. But hay they could look nice in the flesh.
New F56 Spy Shots Confirm Rocketman-style Headlights!

http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/spyshot2014miniheadlight-1-640x400.jpg
http://s3.motoringfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/PFPR_346b-640x426.jpg

As test mules continue to circle Germany for the next generation MINI hatch, spy photographers are snapping more and more photos of the car’s details. This latest image confirms something we’ve been reporting for more than a year: the F56 will have Rocketman-style headlights. The “halo” light rings aren’t turned on for this test mule, but they’re clearly visible. Also obvious in these shots is just how much cladding is sitting on top of the car’s true shape (look at the access hatch seams, for instance). Completely hidden are the car’s front grill shape and hoodline, which we also expect to be heavily influenced by the Rocketman Concept. All of this bodes well for the F56′s final design.

We expect the F56 to debut online in late in the summer of 2013, with a public debut at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September. Production should start at Oxford shortly afterwards with European deliveries happening as early as November. Look for the car make it’s way to the US in late 2013 or early 2014.



Romour Mill with regards to new MINI’s…

MINI 3/5dr - Increased demand leads to the next generation MINI due next year with five drs for the 1st time.

MINI Sedan - Sporty four dr MINI aimed at increasing markets for MINI products, potentially could be MINI’s best global seller overtaking the Countryman.

MINI Cabrio - Latest F56 rendition of the popular open top MINI.

MINI Roadster - Next Roadster and Coupe will launch with a sportier look which is completely separate from the standard MINI. The typical MINI design elements will be present but bodywork is not based on the hatch family.

MINI Coupe - Coupe version of Roadster , more individual in appearance.

MINI Countryman - Next generation of the global MINI juggernaut, heavily shared with BMW X1

MINI Paceman/XL - Next generation of new MINI member will be offered with 5 door version as well as 3 door.

MINI Clubman - Current car revisited with more style and more flexibility, more of a Shooting Brake with dynamic raked roof and forward looking

[ELFMAN]

Rumour Mill with regards to new MINI’s…

MINI 3/5dr - Increased demand leads to the next generation MINI due next year with five drs for the 1st time.
MINI Sedan - Sporty four dr MINI aimed at increasing markets for MINI products, potentially could be MINI’s best global seller overtaking the Countryman.
MINI Cabrio - Latest F56 rendition of the popular open top MINI.
MINI Roadster - Next Roadster and Coupe will launch with a sportier look which is completely separate from the standard MINI. The typical MINI design elements will be present but bodywork is not based on the hatch family.
MINI Coupe - Coupe version of Roadster , more individual in appearance.
MINI Countryman - Next generation of the global MINI juggernaut, heavily shared with BMW X1
MINI Paceman/XL - Next generation of new MINI member will be offered with 5 door version as well as 3 door.
MINI Clubman - Current car revisited with more style and more flexibility, more of a Shooting Brake with dynamic raked roof and forward looking

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ragin: :argh: :idunno: :blink::thud:

To paraphrase 'Highlander'
"There WAS only one!"

[weefossy]

NO.....just no.

[ELFMAN]

NO.....just no.

Is it maybe just an 'Age Thing' Malcolm? Maybe we just don't like change... :idunno:

[AndyP & Lenore]

NO.....just no.


Is it maybe just an 'Age Thing' Malcolm? Maybe we just don't like change... :idunno:

Correct. It's an age thing.:moonie::moonie: Nothing in that list that causes me any sleepless nights other than the Countryman platform being "shared with the X1".:frown:

There's a saying in the Borders which I absolutely detest, but you two would fit in just fine down here because it's the land of "aye been".:frown:

Sorry if that upsets Ewan or Malcolm but all these changes do nothing to your own car; it's still sitting there on your drive loosing money on a daily basis.:moonie:

A.:D:D

[The Dogfather]

I remember when it was just classic owners that complained that the MINI had got too big.

On that list there’s only the Countryman, Paceman XL and the sedan that I have a problem with especially if they can make the Coupe and Roadster look good unlike the current models.

Shame there’s no rocket man, that might have seen me back in a MINI albeit a mini one.

[weefossy]

Let's not forget we were the first on MNS to have a convertible...... and the first to have Clubman.......so no, I've never had a problem with change. Also think the Coupe and the Roadster are great, but not for me at this point in time. Apart from being a fantastic drive, which many cars can provide, I love the Mini because of the retro look and the nostalgia. I don't get any of that from the Countryman, Paceman, Rocketman etc. I would rather have a totally different car.
And although the R56 is a better "car" than the R53, the R53 was /is the best looking new Mini. As Paul said, we all thought the R56 was too fat!!
All of course "in my opinion" and no offence meant to anyone who thinks otherwise. But as my old boss used to say "you are all entitled to your opinion, it's just some people have dumb opinions"..... lol

[ELFMAN]

Correct. It's an age thing.:moonie::moonie: Nothing in that list that causes me any sleepless nights other than the Countryman platform being "shared with the X1".:frown:

There's a saying in the Borders which I absolutely detest, but you two would fit in just fine down here because it's the land of "aye been".:frown: Sorry if that upsets Ewan or Malcolm but all these changes do nothing to your own car; it's still sitting there on your drive loosing money on a daily basis.:moonie:A.:D:D

Nothing on NMS or in MINI land causes me 'sleepless nights' Andy - there are plenty of other things in life which are liable to do that!

Don't file me away in the "Old Fart Cupboard" just yet! I'm not always averse to change if and when required, but I've said it before, when MINI get into 'platform sharing' and the like, it just moves the goal-posts a bit too far from the game I enjoy. Seems MINI are bringing out new kit not that long after the 'old new kit'....

Not sure if I 'get' your final point about 'change' though, which seems to say it's basically putting the financial boot into the current models, which is indeed the case - every new model which comes out automatically devalues the previous one, so doesn't that flag up a rather important negative effect of all this seemingly endless updating? Looking at the bigger picture, you could argue that it's the practice of always creating the "New Improved Must Have Thing" whether it's a car, a house or an iPad, which just feeds the credit-driven ever-hungry consumer machine which arguably has caused a lot of the financial turmoil we're in today.

Maybe it's not so much an 'Age Thing' as a way of thinking. It's true to say we shouldn't live in the land of "Aye Been", but I'd argue it's not always a good idea to be constantly dissatisfied with the present (Christmas or otherwise) and throw buckets of money we don't have trying to travel to the land of "Gonnae Be"...

[Stewart]

Look away !!! I actually think I like this! I live up a hill and the drive is up a slope All4 Goodness would be great! :thumbs up: Mind you I'd not pay 28K price tag.:ragin:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/18309_10151151374771640_63121390_n.jpg




Following hotly on the heels of the announcement of the new MINI Paceman, we’re delighted to confirm initial details of the new MINI John Cooper Works Paceman. This exciting new member of the MINI Paceman range completes the MINI John Cooper Works family, making it seven models strong. The car features the recently developed 1.6 litre twin-scroll turbocharged engine that made its debut in the MINI John Cooper Work Countryman. It produces 218hp and in conjunction with the standard ALL4 drivetrain propels the car from 0-62mph in just 6.9 seconds.



As you’d expect, a high level of standard equipment is carried over from the MINI Paceman Cooper S ALL4, including DAB radio, basic Bluetooth function, rear park distance control, air conditioning, lowered sport suspension and four individual sport seats. Above this, the new MINI John Cooper Work Paceman includes 18" John Cooper Works Twin Spoke alloy wheels, John Cooper Works body styling and exhaust system, anthracite roof lining, and contrasting sport stripes are available as a no cost option. As now familiar on MINI John Cooper Works models, the MINI John Cooper Works Paceman is available with optional automatic transmission.

The MINI John Cooper Works Paceman celebrates its world premiere at the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) in Detroit in January 2013; its market launch will follow in March 2013. The MINI John Cooper Works Paceman’s driving characteristics and design ensure it will stand out from the crowd in city traffic, as well as being the car of choice when maximum driving fun over longer distances Instantaneous power delivery and an unquenchable appetite for revs define the engine under the bonnet of the MINI John Cooper Works Paceman.

The MINI John Cooper Works Paceman draws its power from a 1,598 cc four-cylinder engine. The latest generation of the John Cooper Works turbocharged unit technical details with cutting BMW Group’s powertrain experts. Highlights include reinforced pistons, low-weight crankshafts, an aluminium cylinder block and bearing mounts, and further optimised with a petrol direct injection and variable valve control which optimises both the engine’s efficiency and its responsiveness. The twin turbocharger joins forces with a generously sized intercooler.



The MINI John Cooper Works Paceman channels the extraordinary power produced by its front four wheels as standard. The ALL4 all developed for MINI uses an distribute drive seamlessly between the front and rear axles. This means power is always sent to the wheels where it can be most effectively into forward propulsion. In normal driving situations.

ALL4 diverts a maximum 50 per cent of the engine’s power to the rear wheels, rising to as much as 100. This provides a traction which MINI is famed – whatever the weather and road conditions. The control electronics of the MINI ALL4 system are integrated directly into the DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) management unit, which gives ALL4 extremely short

carry out proactive adjustments in the distribution of drive. The system uses the data collected by DSC to tweak the power split pre-emptively and to impressive effect corners, for example. And that agility combined with surefooted driving characteristics in customary MINI style.



Another key player in giving the MINI John Cooper Works Paceman its sky-high levels of driving fun is chassis technology specially developed for the new model. The standard sports suspension has a dynamically optimised set up and stronger anti-roll bars, and is lowered by 10 millimetres. a central-arm rear axle, Electric Power Steering and an extremely high performance braking system make a potent team.

18-inch light-alloy wheels in Twin Spoke Black with polished spoke fronts and black rim wells are standard on the MINI John Cooper Works Paceman. Among the items on the options list are exclusive 19-inch light design.

The aerodynamic kit fitted as standard on the MINI John Cooper Works Paceman includes front and rear aprons and bespoke side skirts ensuring the airflow around the car is even more efficient. John Cooper Works logos on the radiator grille, tailgate and door sill strips as well as next to the side indicators provide additional confirmation of the car’s identity.

Customers can choose from nine exterior paint finishes, including the Chili Red shade reserved for the John Cooper Works model. Chili Red is also available exclusively for the MINI John Cooper Works Paceman’s contrast roof.

The rear compartment of the MINI John Cooper Works Paceman features a pair of individual seats in which the rear passengers can enjoy that unmistakable racing feeling in lounge-style surroundings. Sports stitching and John Cooper Works logo, 160 mph speedometer and rev counter, anthracite coloured roof liner and gearshift lever with red shift pattern lettering are all part of the standard equipment for the new extreme sports model, as are cloth sports seats in Diagonal Track. Standard Piano Black interior trim strips add the finishing touches to the racing Cooper Works Paceman along with exclusive Chili Red trim elements for the cockpit and doors and a red stripe for the black trim strips on the centre console.

[stoney]

i quit like that as well Stewart :) but like you the price tag puts me off !!!

[ELFMAN]

The Paceman - JCW or not - looks fine, but I'm still struggling to see the point of it.

In its various guises, it'll probably be more 'dynamically effective' than the equivalent Countryman (although in either case - even with 4WD - big wheels, stiff suspension and low-profiles aren't going to do you many favours in slippery/wintry conditions...). Aesthetically it's a bit better looking, but a lot of the practicality (eg more doors etc, which is where the Countryman makes its claim to fame) is lost. So I suppose if you want a big 4WD MINI Hatch, then it's worth a look.

Personally "Big MINI-wise" (as opposed to little Ernie Wise), I'd go for a year-or-so old Countryman S All4 and take a trip to P-Torque for a remap... Then you'd get the JCW Oomph (and more), 4WD with most of the handling AND 5-door practicality. It's also be a bit of a sleeper. 'All 4' quite a bit less than the £28K+ of the JCW Paceman.

[N16SHP]

I get the idea of the Paceman from a marketing point of view and I agree with Andy, they cannot touch my car so I've decided just to accept what Mini are doing and live with it. What I don't get is the Paceman 5 door...surely that's just a Countryman no?

It reminds me of something similar with VW in that why would you buy a 3-door Golf GTI when you can get the Scirocco? Yes some people will still want the Golf but there is a huge overlap in the market there.

[ELFMAN]

Sorry if that upsets Ewan or Malcolm but all these changes do nothing to your own car; it's still sitting there on your drive loosing money on a daily basis.:moonie: A.:D:D

OK, my car might well be 'losing money on a daily basis', but I tend to keep my cars for a few years because: A. I really enjoy them, get attached to them and like to 'tweak' them, and B. I can't (or don't want to) afford to keep changing cars every year or so - taking a big hit on initial depreciation. Trading in your fairly new car for the 'latest model' is Win-Win for MINI - they sell you a new car and get a top class trade-in, to which they add a few grand and sell to another customer. Kerr, and indeed, Chiiinng!

[Crombers]

Let's not forget we were the first on MNS to have a convertible...... and the first to have Clubman.......so no, I've never had a problem with change. Also think the Coupe and the Roadster are great, but not for me at this point in time. Apart from being a fantastic drive, which many cars can provide, I love the Mini because of the retro look and the nostalgia. I don't get any of that from the Countryman, Paceman, Rocketman etc. I would rather have a totally different car.
And although the R56 is a better "car" than the R53, the R53 was /is the best looking new Mini. As Paul said, we all thought the R56 was too fat!!
All of course "in my opinion" and no offence meant to anyone who thinks otherwise. But as my old boss used to say "you are all entitled to your opinion, it's just some people have dumb opinions"..... lol

I'm all for the R56 being a better car in many ways but very few who have owned both 1st & 2nd gen cars reckon the R50/53 can be touched as the better driver car.

EVO & John say so too, therefore matter closed lol

[KenL]

I'm all for the R56 being a better car in many ways but very few who have owned both 1st & 2nd gen cars reckon the R50/53 can be touched as the better driver car.

EVO & John say so too, therefore matter closed lol

For the millions who buy them, its not just about being a better driver's car. The people who buy them want an all round car. In this respect, the R56 is the better car and I hope the new model is better still.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Re the R50/53 - R56 comparison... I have to say when we first got our R56 five and a half years ago, we were so gutted we'd traded in our Hyper Blue supercharged Cooper S we went out and bought ourselves another one. Great car it was too. But I have to say the R56 IS a better quality of car - cold start diesel rattles aside - better made, better engine, better interior - even if not just as inspired.

As our R56 settled in and we settled in with it, it became one of the best cars we've ever owned, and it's certainly the longest we've ever owned a car. Nearly 6 years now and we're only now seriously looking at punting it on.

I do understand what Ewan and Malcolm are saying regarding the new models only out a few years after last new models, but like Ewan alluded to, it's the way of the world these days - phones, iPad's, TV's etc. There seems to be no stopping it.

A.

[Stewart]

Oh crap thats its of the list :smilewinkgrin: it starts at 29K

Scheduled to make its public debut next month at the Detroit Motor Show, the 2013 MINI Paceman JCW will reach showrooms in UK in mid-March at a starting price of 29,535 GBP. In the US the market launch will also commence in March but no pricing details have been announced yet

[KenL]

That price really is a joke!

[Stewart]

It’s the fact that’s the starting price:sheep:. Friend had a girl next to him pricing up a Countryman and he overheard the sales guy saying that’s 33K without it! ( God knows what she was skimping on):smilewinkgrin:

[The Dogfather]

Shocking how much (all) new cars cost. Its just as shocking when you see how much they depreciate as well.

Buy a motorhome and use it as a car at least they hold their value better. Mine cost £33k and its now worth about £27k two years later. I bet that paceman will loose that much in its first year if not a lot more. In 8 years time it will still be worth about £16k.

0-60 is not much to write home about though :Whistle:

[Stewart]

A year old MINI Paceman JCW will still be high priced but at least it would have taken that new car hit. That 20% Vat the government got away with was a killer when buying such an expensive item. Its was bad enough paying 17.5% :ragin:

[ELFMAN]

According to Modern MINI mag in an article on 'Trends' featuring a Norfolk MINI Dealer, the Hatch is still doing OK, which is good news, but the Coupe and Roadster, despite being obvious 'niche models' where you wouldn't expect big sales, seem (if the dealer in question is correct) to be something of a liability in the trade at the moment. Countryman is doing well, and LOTS of enquiries about Paceman... I know we take these reports with as many pinches of salt as are necessary, but the trend seems to be emerging (eg with the new bigger 5 door Hatch etc) with MINI moving away from their 'Sporty' (if slightly impractical) models and into the 'Premium Crossover' segment.

Rather than (as initially envisaged and despite it being a 'stand-alone' brand) MINI being seen as a characterful, stylish and sporty possible 'first rung' on the BMW ladder, it seems that a large part of its future 'raison d'etre' might now turn out to be as a refuge from expensive 4x4's for style-conscious but slightly cash-strapped 'Soft-Roaders'. Instead of being an upward step, its best selling models might one day owe their existence to 'automotive downsizing'. I can actually envisage a time when we might not recognise the MINI as we know it - it'll have a MINI badge, and it WILL be called 'MINI', but it might not have much in common with the Hatch you drive today.

It won't happen this year or the next, and I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see myself in a convoy of enthusiastically-driven Nissan Duke-alikes or miniature Evoques on an NMS run in 5 years time. Things certainly change and arguably 'improve' - it's the way of the world - but one buyer's 'improvement' might well be the enthusiast's nemesis.

Apologies for going slightly
:off topic:

[Stewart]

I’m with you on that! I would happily keep buying MINI if it keeps the Hatch – wait for it MINI looking. On the south side Hatches and Countrymen are ten a penny. Certainly I think most of the Countrymen are driven by the mummy brigade but there is a lot about these days. I’ve only ever seen two Roadsters on the road with the Coupe being extremely low as well. The Roadsters and Coupe on evidence seem not to have taken off as I think they would have hoped. If BMW if they can’t work out you need the Hatch that got them where they are today at there core then I too fear for my Hatch.

If they bring out a Three Pot hatch and gets silly miles to the gallon and still fun to drive and produces the same power as my Coop then i'll be happy. But only if it still looks similar to my R56. I know Euro law on pedestrian safety plays its part but they look determined take the stance we want futuristic over retro. That to me is just a cheap get out saying we want the car to look like this and have this badge that sells even if it does not look anything like the first gen and we are going to use futuristic to get round it.

If they disappoint the very core owners who have made the brand so popular from the start they could find themselves sitting years from now thinking what went wrong. The very real fact today is that it’s a British icon car that is now being stretched and pulled to fit markets in the USA and the far East!

[ELFMAN]

If they disappoint the very core owners who have made the brand so popular from the start they could find themselves sitting years from now thinking what went wrong. The very real fact today is that it’s a British icon car that is now being stretched and pulled to fit markets in the USA and the far East!

What's maybe interesting (you never know, folks!) is that if the Countryman and Paceman are indeed picking up sales from the likes of Range Rover buyers with an eye on belt-tightening running costs etc, when (and if) the economy does pick up, will these buyers desert MINI just as quickly and go back to their undeniably larger and arguably more 'status-filled' vehicles? Then the forecourts will be littered with 'pre-owned' big MINIs with nowhere to go. I'm not saying they will, but if MINI base their future on these larger models, they might find to their cost that their 'new' market segment has deserted them and their 'old faithfulls' no longer have a model which fulfills the criteria of the current Hatch.

After all, Brand Loyalty is built up over years (with and by people like us) whereas quickly-converted 'Downsizers' and 'Fashionistas' might become fickle when they reckon they can 're-afford' their previous big stuff and a well-specced Countryman or Paceman is coming out of the showroom at over £30K... For true Brand Loyalty, MINI need look no further than the esteemed pages of NMS!

Back to the F56 - it'll be interesting to see just how it turns out 'in the metal' and drives on the road - hopefully it'll still be close to the driving experience of our favourite wee (or if you're a Gen 1 fan - and who isn't?, 'big') R56 Hatch. The revised 'more practical' Clubbie sounds quite intriguing though...

[weefossy]

Still maintain that BMW got it wrong with the Coupe / Roadster, in that it should have been one car, with a convertible "Tin Roof". I like both, but a combined car would have been better.

[AndyP & Lenore]

0-60 is not much to write home about though :Whistle:

That's for sure Paul. "Pace" man? Not with that pace. :frown:


Still maintain that BMW got it wrong with the Coupe / Roadster, in that it should have been one car, with a convertible "Tin Roof". I like both, but a combined car would have been better.

Absolutely Malcolm. Added weight as a result, yes, but significantly more practical and just so much better looking.

A.

[Mon the fish]

Still maintain that BMW got it wrong with the Coupe / Roadster, in that it should have been one car, with a convertible "Tin Roof". I like both, but a combined car would have been better.

Considering it's the same chassis, they really should have thought of that themselves

[ELFMAN]

Considering it's the same chassis, they really should have thought of that themselves

I think this is the result of MINI's headlong rush into releasing so many models to cover every market segment they can brainstorm over endless poncey coffees! :smilewinkgrin:

This might be a daft point (especially if you remember who's making it...), but I know MINI used a lot of new CAD/CAM stuff on the Coupe and Roadster, which sped up the design and manufacturing process and obviously made the whole process more cost-effective. So perhaps they made both because they could. Maybe if they had been forced to spend more time, money and physical effort, they might have come to Malcolm's conclusion that one model could have covered both bases.
A bit more discussion and a bit less caffeine might be the answer... :scratch: :yes nod:

[The Dogfather]

I don’t think its caffeine, its greed.

All it needed was a bit of investment to make the coupe a lighter version of the hatch, or at the very least as light.

Not a fan of folding hardtops, there’s very few that actually look good. Even the MX5 looks ungainly compared to the soft top. Mind you the folding hardtop MX5 only weighs 37kg more, BMW and other manufacturers take note.

[ELFMAN]

I don’t think its caffeine, its greed. All it needed was a bit of investment to make the coupe a lighter version of the hatch, or at the very least as light.


I'm not so sure it's greed Paul. To me, 'greed' would indicate trying to maximise profit from as little effort possible, so it seems like 'Niche Madness' for MINI to have the Coupe, Roadster AND the Convertible all on the go at the same time. Surely the introduction of even more variables into what is already an insanely complicated production line, when they have to be fully 'tooled up' to produce relatively tiny numbers of these models can't be doing them any favours economically.

If they had ditched the Convertible (sorry R57 fans - this is just Brainstorm in a teacup!) and 'amalgamated' the Coupe and Roadster (has ANYBODY actually bought a Roadster?) into a single model, possibly with a folding hard top - taking note of the increased weight, loss of load space and manufacturing cost over a (single skin!) soft top - they might have cut expenditure in the long run and possibly produced a more attractive, and profitable, 'catch-all' proposition for potential buyers.

But hey, what do we know? :idunno:

[Stewart]

http://www.quattromania.it.s3.amazonaws.com/foto_articoli/pajero-world-club-italia-presenta-il-calendario-2013_22165_big.jpg

MINI RUN 2018 :)

[Mini Ecosse]

http://www.quattromania.it.s3.amazonaws.com/foto_articoli/pajero-world-club-italia-presenta-il-calendario-2013_22165_big.jpg

MINI RUN 2018 :)

PMSL

[The Dogfather]

Its greed.

To develop a new model takes investment, MINI took a shortcut with the Coupe (and to a lesser extent the Roadster), rather than design a complete new model from scratch they used the convertible as a base.

As for the weight maybe you can’t feel the difference but its there. The Coupe could and should have been a more focused driver’s car IMO, it isn’t because MINI cut corners on the development.

[weefossy]

I'm with Ali on the weight thing, never felt it made any difference to me. If you compare my 11.5 stone to some other NMS drivers, no offence meant, I'm sure the driver's weight difference would far exceed the difference made by the car. Hope that makes sense?

[Craig]

I'm with Ali on the weight thing, never felt it made any difference to me. If you compare my 11.5 stone to some other NMS drivers, no offence meant, I'm sure the driver's weight difference would far exceed the difference made by the car. Hope that makes sense?

It's why I bought a GP ;)

Better than a diet - the car did it for me :lol:

[Mon the fish]

^^^ echoing this, the Coupe and the roadster share the same chassis, the roof on the Coupe is not structural. Therefore requiring floor strengthening etc. This tells you all you need to know about how much they cared about making the Coupe a drivers car.

Also, the fact GP2 is a hatch and not a Coupe

[The Dogfather]

Does it sit you lower, the Coupe felt the same as the hatch when I sat in it. What’s the difference then, a set of lower seat mounts? The ride height is the same, as far as I can tell from looking. That would leave it just down to driver perception, which is kind of ruined when you realise that the ‘sleek’ Coupe is a bit of a porker.

As for the GP2 - the last GP was lighter to make it better (and it was), I just can’t see how the new one can be better if it weighs more.

Just another cynical marketing exercise maybe?

As for VAG sharing platforms, just because another manufacturer does it doesn’t mean its the right thing to do, and since when has MINI ever passed any savings on to the consumer?

Hopefully the next generation will move towards lighter, higher strength materials like Mazda have done with their Skyactiv bodies.

[KenL]

The new GP is quicker round "the ring", is that not enough to say it is a better driver's car?

Back to the Coupe. Despite the increased weight, it is quicker to 60 mph in s trim than the hatch. Lower c of g makes for a better driver's car.

[The Dogfather]

The new GP is quicker round "the ring", is that not enough to say it is a better driver's car?

No, that could be down to having more grip (from the diffuser) or power. I’m sure MINI have worked hard on the dynamics but if they’d made it lighter as well it would of been even better.


Back to the Coupe. Despite the increased weight, it is quicker to 60 mph in s trim than the hatch. Lower c of g makes for a better driver's car.

The Caterham Seven has the aerodynamics of a barn door yet its held as one of the ultimate drivers cars.

Its simple basic newtonian physics - F = MA - the greater the mass the more force required to accelerate, decelerate and change direction. Weight impacts every single driving dynamic of a car. Loose weight, you’ll improve the car’s driving dynamics.

[KenL]

Less mass will increase acceleration.

It is not just about mass, suspension geometry, downforce etc. come into play. Heavy cars can be good driver's cars.

[The Dogfather]

Less mass will increase acceleration.

It is not just about mass, suspension geometry, downforce etc. come into play. Heavy cars can be good driver's cars.

Less mass reduces the force required to create the same acceleration. Acceleration is any change of direction, it can be positive - acceleration, negative - braking. Its also turning, you accelerate in another direction when you turn. By reducing weight you make the car more nimble.

I don’t disagree about heavier cars being good drivers cars, however it takes more work to do so.

For two cars with pretty much the same setup though the lighter car will always be more nimble. Other factors do come into play as well such as chassis stiffness, a stiffer body means that less force is wasted with the body flexing. I’ve not seen anything anywhere to same that the Coupe’s body is stiffer than the hatch, it can’t be I guess as the roof isn’t structural.

[Mon the fish]

The reason it's quicker to 60 is that the extra weight is over the driving axle, giving it slightly better launch traction. Possibly the only thing the weight will benefit.

And I would imagine the switch from runflats on GP1 to decent road tyres on GP2 will be responsible for at least half the saving in the 'Ring laptime

[stoney]

And I would imagine the switch from runflats on GP1 to decent road tyres on GP2 will be responsible for at least half the saving in the 'Ring laptime

This and the fact it has adjustable coil overs on it :) I bet if you put that on a gen 1 then it would not be far off if not as quick round the ring :)

[ELFMAN]

As for the GP2 - the last GP was lighter to make it better (and it was), I just can’t see how the new one can be better if it weighs more. Just another cynical marketing exercise maybe?

"Better" is a very subjective description, and from that standpoint I don't think there can't be a whole lot of difference in "Driver Enjoyment" between the GP1 and GP2. I'm well aware of the penalties of carrying extra weight (personally and from the driver's seat!), but I reckon the GP2's extra kg's are more than offset by the hardware under the arches and the bonnet and the aero package. After all, it's still a pretty light car as hot hatches go, so although the lighter the better, I don't think the extra weight makes the GP2 a 'worse' drive.

The GP1 was certainly "better" than the standard R53, as I know from personal experience how much my R53 was improved with the same engine mods and running gear as the GP1. I'm not sure the GP1 was THAT much lighter than its lesser brethren, but some lessons were learned, as the R56 utilised the same aluminium rear suspension componenents as the GP1 in order to reduce weight. I think the GP2 would certainly have benefitted from going to Weight Watchers, but given that MINI decided not to go the whole hog with it, I've maybe been guilty of over-emphasising marginal kg loss in what is ostensibly a road car, albeit one you can happily skelp around a track. As we've said, you don't put leather and air-con in a track car, so as soon as they decided not to 'gut' it, it was compromised - but as it stands, it's probably not too bad a compromise. I'd have forgone the leather and 'toys' and put it out at @25K...

Initially I had my doubts about the GP2, and you could still argue that it's on the pricey side (it's a MINI!), but having seen William's with the suspension, brakes, track-biased tyres and items like the diffuser and undertray which genuinely improve the high speed handling etc, I don't think it's a 'cynical marketing exercise' - if anything it's as much (if not more) of a move up from the R56 JCW than the GP1 was from the R53 JCW.

The GP2 might have better hardware (and returning to that old 'quoted' power figure argument) more power and especially torque, but the GP1 is such a 'visceral' wee machine with arguably a more evocative soundtrack. The GP2 is certainly faster around the 'Ring, but surely that's down to the suspension and aero package, and with those massive brakes, you'd presumably be able to carry more speed into the corners and brake later, then use the extra torque of the turbo motor and those grippy tyres to pull you out onto the next straight. You might find that, for similar reasons (power, torque and brakes), an R56 JCW might well post a faster time than the GP1 (controversial!)... but I know which one you'd have more fun in while you were doing it!!!

So in the great scheme of things, I'd have a GP1 over a standard factory R56 JCW, but I'd be in a real quandry between the GP1 and GP2!

- - - Updated - - -


This and the fact it has adjustable coil overs on it :) I bet if you put that on a gen 1 then it would not be far off if not as quick round the ring :)

I agree Stoney - you posted your thoughts while I was 'composing' mine!

On the 'Coupe as Driver's Car' debate - if a documentary ('Megafactories - MINI') I saw recently is anything to go by, the folks who developed it at MINI certainly seemed to think it was. They were well happy with the outcome. They WOULD say that of course, but they seemed genuine in their convictions. I haven't driven one, so can't really give an opinion. 'evo' mag thought the JCW Coupe was pretty good, but a bit ragged when pushed - the old sport suspension/runflat syndrome again methinks... You could of course make the argument that ALL MINIs are 'drivers cars', just that some are more so than others! :smilewinkgrin:

[KenL]

Yes, I am looking forward to the F56 in general. Lots of new "improvements", especially the 3 cylinder petrol engines.

It took a while for this to get back on topic...

[KenL]

Me neither, had one in an Aygo! But the BMW one has good initial reviews.

[Stewart]

And with the increase the 4 pot will have more power than the current engine so it will be interesting what the figures are like when they flag up the F56 JCW. Could the three pot give a better note out the back I don’t know.


http://youtu.be/qvEh17BcU8g


http://youtu.be/0EeYvjzicoE

[Mon the fish]

Could the three pot give a better note out the back I don’t know.



Only if you bolted two of them together on a common crank :p

[Stewart]

At the very least it will give the JCW crowd what they have always wanted a 2lt fire breather under the bonnet! I think a V6 would be pushing it!

The new-generation Mini will be based on a brand-new BMW-engineered platform called UKL1. This front-drive architecture will come in two wheelbase lengths and is based around MacPherson strut front suspension and BMW’s Z-axle rear end. BMW recently announced a £500 million investment in converting the Cowley, Oxfordshire plant to accommodate the platform.

Most of the Mk3 Mini line-up will be powered by a new range of advanced BMW three-cylinder engines. They will be just as powerful as the existing Mini four-cylinder engines but are claimed to be significantly more frugal. Power outputs are expected to span 120bhp to 160bhp. UKL1 will also accommodate the new 2.0-litre, four-cylinder BMW engines, which could produce more than 230bhp. This engine is expected to form the basis of the John Cooper Works motor and also raises the possibility of an all-wheel-drive Mini JCW.

[The Dogfather]

Only if you bolted two of them together on a common crank :p

Three cylinder engines sound almost V6 like here’s a clip of a BMW 3 cylinder engine on YouTube, not sure how genuine it is.

7GE6SGcT_eI

[The Dogfather]

I had a A2 1.4 TDI that had a 3 cylinder engine, its sounded great compared to a 4 cylinder diesel. Almost boxerish in character.

The two cylinder engine in the 500 twin air supposedly sounds great as well. I know from my brief time riding bikes that 2 and 3 cylinder engines make the best noise, Ducati and Triumph anyone?

[Angib]

Yes, there are God's own engine layouts, which are:
- V-twin
- inline triple
- inline six
- V8

The inline four isn't in that list as it is a nasty, buzzy, characterless engine layout. They even have to add pops and burbles to make it sound good to small boys.

Anything with twelve or more cylinders is cool, but not very interesting.

I'm willing to give an honourable mention to the flat four for individuality rather than actually being pleasant.

I've never experienced a bad inline three - even things like Yanmar marine diesels sound nice as a three.

Do you think I should get off the fence and say what I think? :D

[The Dogfather]

I agree with Angib to some extent, the inline 4 isn’t the best layout for sound. Although the sound of most engines (diesel I4s excluded) will appeal especially if they are tuned.

With the I4, yes you can make it sound better but it’ll never be as appealing as a V4, inline 3, Twin, V6, V8, 5 cylinder or inline 6 etc. Can’t say I’ve had much experience of V10s or V12 to comment but from what I’ve heard on Top Gear the V10 isn’t as appealing as V12 or V8.

The VAG 3 cylinder with the right exhaust will sound excellent, its just strangled to death to keep it quiet. The standard situation for most small cars.

Elfman - Angib also owns a inline 4 so he’s saying his own engine isn’t the best as well.

One of the worse cars for sound is the MX5, the standard exhaust is too quiet but most aftermarket (including mine) is too boomy at 70mph. The last MX5 I had had the only decent sounding exhaust I’ve heard on the car a Larini. They just don’t make them anymore for the mark 3…..

One of the best sounding cars (standard) I’ve heard was an 3.0 V6 Alfa, would have bought one until I heard the fuel economy figures.

[ELFMAN]

Elfman - Angib also owns a inline 4 so he’s saying his own engine isn’t the best as well.

I think we all agree it isn't the best sounding layout, as we've pointed out in our own wee lists, but to describe it as "nasty, buzzy" and "characterless" is tarring a very diverse range of engines with the same negative brush. I'm sure we could all name quite a few 'characterful' inline 4's - how about the Alfa Romeo Twin Cams, or the Ford BDA as used in some hot Mk2 Escorts etc?

[Angib]

Of course I'm just stirring, but there is a serious point. Most car drivers don't get much experience of nice engine layouts, with the straight four and V-6 being so popular.

An Alfa four blipping on changing down is a truly magnificent sound but that's just the exhaust note - the dull-as-ditchwater inline four sound doesn't add anything to it. My particular favourite was the Japanese-market Honda 250 four that was the nicest bike a neighbour could insure after a speeding ban - it's redline was well over 15,000rpm (well, the pistons were the size of eggcups) and from 10,000 upwards it had three or four stunning exhaust notes, at least one of which would scare Valkyries. But again, that was just the exhaust on a motor that would suit a fridge.

The Alfa and the Honda bike are like really good instruments playing a boring tune - sounds wonderful some of the time, but doesn't stir the soul. I can't explain why an inline three at 4000rpm doesn't sound/feel just like a inline four at 3000rpm, but it certainly doesn't - which makes me think it might be the poor secondary balance of the four. Hell, I even liked the old Suzuki three in the Daewoo Matiz that I ran as a winter car for a while.

And I don't have enough experience of straight fives to comment on them, but I can believe they might be good - they have the odd layout going for them and that seems to be a good place to start.

[KenL]

Perhaps this discussion about various engine sounds would better in a separate thread?

[The Dogfather]

Why, isn’t the F56 going to be fitted with a 3 cylinder engine? Its appropriate to the thread.

[Stewart]

We’ve been getting closer and closer to all the details behind the body cladding of the 3rd generation MINI (the F56). Now we have some independent corroboration of a few key details. And the good news is that this information lines perfectly up with what we’ve heard through a couple well informed sources over the past 18 months. Let’s start with launch models and the highly anticipated engine outputs.

According to MF reader recursiveiterator there are currently three F56 models (not surprising) in the BMW VIN database.

Cooper, B38 1.5L 100kW / 134 HP
Cooper S, B48 2.0L 140kW / 187 HP
Cooper D, B37 85kW / 114 HP

As reported the B38 and B37 will be a three cylinders and the B48 will be a four cylinder. We’ll have more on options and the engines soon.

The F56 will debut this summer on the MF and other sites with a pubic debut penciled in for Frankfurt in September. Production should start in October with the first EU deliveries happening in late fall. The US launch of the F56 will likely happen sometime in February 2014. The five door F55 will follow it 6-12 months later.

My R56 Cooper is 120bhp, not really got an idea what the extra 14 Bhp would be like but it can’t do any harm when the new F56 is supposed to be lighter with better weight distribution. Kind of disappointing only a few extra HP on the S. This is still to be confirmed by BMW mind.:smilewinkgrin:

[Stewart]

Should give the wee Coop a nice boost. I don’t know if it shares the wheel base but I think a 240Bhp All4 Works would be mega. Although a few years away, would they want to upset the GP2 owners!!!!! I don't know. They sure like rolling out that line “ This is now the most powerful Mini we have built”


“The new front-wheel drive platform is well suited for all-wheel drive vehicles, but it remains to be seen if MINI decides to give their sporty and small vehicles four driven wheels” BMW Blog.

[Mon the fish]

Interesting that the S (and presumably JCW) will have bigger engines, when every other mainstream manufacturer, including BMW, are downsizing

[The Dogfather]

Interesting that the S (and presumably JCW) will have bigger engines, when every other mainstream manufacturer, including BMW, are downsizing

Probably need the extra power for the Countryman and forthcoming larger variants in order to complete against the Renaultsport, VXR and STs

I think this is a shame as the mini in my mind was David vs Goliath, as per below.

3998

[Mon the fish]

^^ I agree with this. The current 1.6 Prince engine can easily give out 270ish bhp, and power isn't everything - I'd rather see the F56 slightly down on power compared to bigger cars, but lighter and much better handling.

A 2l will always be bigger, heavier and thirstier than a 1.6, and harder to fit into a small engine bay

[ELFMAN]

^^ I agree with this. The current 1.6 Prince engine can easily give out 270ish bhp, and power isn't everything - I'd rather see the F56 slightly down on power compared to bigger cars, but lighter and much better handling. A 2l will always be bigger, heavier and thirstier than a 1.6, and harder to fit into a small engine bay

True! Why upset the balance with a bigger 2L lump when these days it's comparatively easy to reliably get decent power from a 1.6 or even a smaller, lighter unit?

[Mon the fish]

Because Mini's are now big and fat, that's why...

[ELFMAN]

Should give the wee Coop a nice boost. I don’t know if it shares the wheel base but I think a 240Bhp All4 Works would be mega. “The new front-wheel drive platform is well suited for all-wheel drive vehicles, but it remains to be seen if MINI decides to give their sporty and small vehicles four driven wheels” BMW Blog.

I'm not convinced we need a 4WD JCW Hatch... arguably, despite the obvious benefits in some condiions, 4WD adds weight, complexity and doesn't always mean a more 'entertaining' drive than a well-sorted FWD hot hatch. Knowing MINI, it would also mean a massive price hike...

As evidence M' Lud, I would like to present to the Jury:

4000 or even 3999 I rest my case.
Anyway, this New Model stuff's getting almost as confusing (if not quite as exciting) as the "Snow Foam" thread! :argh: :thud:

[Stewart]

Anyway, this New Model stuff's getting almost as confusing (if not quite as exciting) as the "Snow Foam" thread! :argh: :thud:

We do try to please :smilewinkgrin:

Some more new stuff. L.E.D Headlights, VOLCANIC ORANGE, HUD, MINI EXCITEMENT PAKAGE :confused: (Thought that came as standard), Electronic Damper Control (The influence of potholes and unevenness on the road surface is reduced to minimum) They tested it in Glasgow then......:thumbs up: A few bits of new Tech, certainly more geared towards the MP3 generation:smilewinkgrin:


Colors

MINI’s not going to change all of its color options (Chili Red, Midnight Black and Pepper White are likely to stay) but there will be some surprises. Well they would have been surprises if you didn’t see them here on MF first.

VOLCANIC ORANGE (B70)
ICED CHOCOLATE METALLIC (B49)

We may see more new colors but these are the first we’ve uncovered.
Lighting

522 XENON LIGHT
5A4 LED HEADLIGHTS WITH CORNERING LIGHT

Somewhat surprisingly Xenon’s won’t be the ultimate lighting available for the next MINI. The F56 will also include optional LED headlights. Keep in mind that this doesn’t refer to the LED daytime running lights that will be integrated in the rings around the headlights but the headlights themselves. This will mark the first time LED lights have been available on a small car from any manufacturer.

Because its temperature is very similar to that of daylight, LED light has a very bright beam, enabling traffic signs, for example, to be seen more clearly. Cornering lights turn on automatically when bends are taken slowly. All bends taken faster than approx. 60 km/h are the responsibility of Adaptive Headlights, which adapt smoothly to steering wheel movements and the speed to optimally light up the road ahead.
Parking

5DP PARK ASSISTANT
5DU PARK ASSISTANCE PACKAGE
508 PARK DISTANCE CONTROL (PDC)
3AG BACKUP CAMERA

Yes, the next generation MINI can park itself. Maybe a little less impressive than the same technology maneuvering a 4,500 lb 7 Series, but helpful nonetheless for those who are parallel parking challenged. For those that have been dying to see what’s directly behind their MINIs as you slide into that parking spot, your hopes have been answered with item 3AG: the backup camera.
Active Cruise

544 CRUISE CONTROL WITH BRAKING FUNCTION

Radar sensors at the front of the vehicle permanently scan the road ahead. As your MINI approaches a slower vehicle, Active Cruise Control automatically reduces power output from the engine and gently applies the brakes, holding your MINI at a pre-defined distance to the vehicle ahead.

This distance is set as a number of seconds, not of metres, so that a safe reaction time is always available, relative to the current speed. When the lane ahead becomes clear, Active Cruise Control automatically increases your vehicle’s speed to your preferred cruising speed. Up to four different cruising speeds can be pre-programmed. A touch on the accelerator or brake pedal deactivates the system.

On curves, Active Cruise Control uses data from the Dynamic Stability Control and navigation systems to calculate whether the cruise speed needs to be adjusted, and to determine whether vehicles in the radar’s field are in the same or a neighbouring lane.

The high-performance radar sensor is heated in cold weather, ensuring year-round operation. Active Cruise Control is functional at speeds above 30 km/h and below 180 km/h. Depending on the model, this function is controlled by a paddle on the steering wheel or a button on the multifunction steering wheel.
Heads-up Display

6AD MINI HEAD UP DISPLAY

An F56 with Head-Up Display will be easily recognised by a small square depression on the dashboard. This contains a projector and a system of mirrors that beams an easy-to-read, high-contrast image onto a translucent film on the windscreen, directly in the driver’s line of sight.

The image is projected in such a way that it appears to be about two metres away, above the tip of the bonnet, making it particularly comfortable to read. Head-Up Display halves the time it takes for eyes to shift focus from road to the instruments and back. The system’s height can be adjusted for optimal viewing.

Tele-Services

6AE TELESERVICES
6AC INTELLIGENT EMERGENCY CALLING

With the F56 MINI will be introducing TeleServices which utilize wireless communication between your MINI and your MINI Service Centre. This guarantees a personalized and thus more beneficial service as well as a quick reaction in the event of a problem.

When a service is due, MINI TeleServices will automatically sends all relevant data from the Condition Based Service system (CBS) to your Service Centre. They will then call you to arrange a service and discuss any extra work that may be required.

MINI TeleServices lets you to get in touch with the BMW Breakdown Service when a problem arises. Thanks to the data transfer our specialists can make a remote diagnosis and are often able to solve the problem from afar.
MINI Connected & Software

6NM MINICONNECTED
6NT MINI CONNECTED XL
4VA MINI DRIVING EXPERIENCE PACK
4V9 MINI EXCITEMENT PAKAGE

We’re not entirely sure what the XL refers to but we can certainly take a guess. There will be at least two different screens used in the new MINI. We suspect that 6NT simply refers to the version of MINI Connected compatible with the larger screen.

The MINI Excitement and Driving Experience package are a bit of a mystery to us, but we do know that MINI is planning on offering more dedicated software as options. We suspect these both offer extended functionality of some kind for that gorgeous new screen.
Performance

223 ELECTRONIC DAMPER CONTROL (EDC)

For years performance cars have enjoyed the benefits of electronic damper control. EDC will allow a driver to manually adjust the MINIs’ dampening to suit the driving conditions — meaning you enjoy outstanding comfort along with terrific cornering and on-road safety. EDC reduces variations in wheel load, ensures tyres have excellent traction and counteracts bodyshell movement regardless of the weight the MINI may be carrying or the state of the road’s surface.

Sensors constantly monitor all factors influencing the vehicle’s behavior in order to precisely adjust the damper control. In a fraction of a second, the signals are analysed by the EDC microprocessor and orders are sent to the actuators on the shock absorbers, which, with the help of magnetic valves, are variably adjusted to provide optimal suspension. Thanks to Electronic Damper Control, the tendency for the nose to dip when braking is practically eliminated. The influence of potholes and unevenness on the road surface is reduced to minimum.

In addition to increased driving comfort and improved roll characteristics on the tyres, EDC also contributes to vehicle stability and safety. By reducing the nose’s tendency to dip when braking and improving the tyre traction, EDC shortens the braking distance when braking heavily. The damper adjustment means that even when braking with ABS, the vehicle chassis remains upright on the road and all four wheels have the largest possible contact with the road surface.

The Driving Experience Control switch lets the driver choose between various programs (like ECO PRO, COMFORT, NORMAL, SPORT or SPORT+) and adjust the suspension to suit their individual needs.

F56 Release Schedule

The F56 hatch will debut this fall at the Frankfurt Motor Show in late September. However it’s internet debut right here on MF will take place in late summer with early press drives happening not long after. Final production should start in September with the first cars hitting EU and UK dealerships this November and December. The US will see an official market launch in March 2014.


I know that probably registers 8/10 on the boredom scale reading all that Ewan so here is some Girl action for you as your reward. :smilewinkgrin:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jLWNWNZSCVQ/T4xJlwAPQUI/AAAAAAAABWQ/IuZETP5WSJI/s1600/SexyCarWash+mini+moris.jpg

[KenL]

The new technology does sound fantastic, but is all of this what I really want from my MINI?

I passed my test at age 17 years, 2 months and 3 days. I have managed to negotiate probably hundreds of thousands of corners since then. Not once have I felt the need for cornering lights!

Also, if you need the car to park itself, it is time to get the bus...

I want a car that is fun to drive, simple enough that it won't have a glitch with its electronics every five minutes etc. I also do not want the price to ramp up to cover the development cost of things I neither need or want.

Damn! I am sounding rather negative in this post. I am still looking forward to the F56 with advancements in the right dirrection - smaller more economical engines with decent power. I imagine the 2.0 litre engine will not be a basic lump but a move in the right direction. Also, a better build interior would be good to keep me away from an Audi A1...

[MINI William]

The new technology does sound fantastic, but is all of this what I really want from my MINI?

I passed my test at age 17 months, 2 months and 3 days. I have managed to negotiate probably hundreds of thousands of corners since then. Not once have I felt the need for cornering lights!

Also, if you need the car to park itself, it is time to get the bus...

I want a car that is fun to drive, simple enough that it won't have a glitch with its electronics every five minutes etc. I also do not want the price to ramp up to cover the development cost of things I neither need or want.

Damn! I am sounding rather negative in this post. I am still looking forward to the F56 with advancements in the right dirrection - smaller more economical engines with decent power. I imagine the 2.0 litre engine will not be a basic lump but a move in the right direction. Also, a better build interior would be good to keep me away from an Audi A1...

Passed at a very young age Ken

[KenL]

Passed at a very young age Ken

Thanks William - mistake corrected ;-)

[The Dogfather]

Whilst the technology sounds great, you have to wonder about the ever increasing cost of the car.

I don’t need fancy screens, I don’t need mode switches and fancy electronics. Economy, reliability, good build quality and a driving experience second to none, do that for the cost of a entry level Ford Focus and I’d be happy.

[MINI William]

I have mixed feelings about the new F56 but can we really pass judgement on something we know nothing about. I think that a 2L is a step in the right direction more power & more torque. If EDC is going to be an option this isnt a bad thing we loved it on the M3 isnt this what alot wanted from BMW/MINI a step towards an M car. Hopefully this will raise MINIs game.

[Mon the fish]

And if you keep your cars for as long as I do, none of this will be repairable by your helpful local garage cheaply. Knowing Mini's history on reliability (chain tensioners, PAS pumps, coke issues etc), all this technology is a licence to print money for dealers

[Gismo]

And if you keep your cars for as long as I do, none of this will be repairable by your helpful local garage cheaply. Knowing Mini's history on reliability (chain tensioners, PAS pumps, coke issues etc), all this technology is a licence to print money for dealersI'm with you there, but, an M Class Mini, hmm :smilewinkgrin:

[ELFMAN]

The EDC looks like a good idea - if it means that MINI have finally accepted that their previous suspension set-ups were a bit too 'simple' - ie not quite sporty enough OR too stiff for words. BUT - is it standard or an expensive extra? Bet it's the latter :smilewinkgrin:

I had a whole 'ELF-rant' about the raft of unnecessary "iCar" Tech stuff - (gets there on its own and then parks itself etc - the best driver's car which no longer needs a thinking driver?)
but what's the point? :idunno:

I must be an analog driver in a digital world - MINI these days sometimes makes me feel like a cassette tape in a download :frown::ragin:out of time and out of place!

[The Dogfather]

Isn’t the JCW supposed to be the M version of the MINI?

Bigger, heavier (relatively as all cars are getting lighter), more complicated etc. sounds less and less like a MINI and more like a BMW.

[Stewart]

I thought a while back everyone was screaming for a 2lt Works, at the very least I remember people being disappointed when the newer Works HP was disclosed.

Ken about the cornering lights, I think headlights that follow your planed direction like you get in the Audi’s cant be a bad thing, my mate has a A8 so I’ve seen them in action. Certainly I welcome more options for the headlights. I promised if I got another MINI it has to have the non standard set up that we all know is ridiculous if not bordering on dangerous.

The EDC suggests to me that the Mini would be more sure footed round corners but I don’t think I’ve experienced it so cant really comment. But I think most enjoy the fact that the Mini goes round bends and puts a smile on their face.

I love Tech I have to emit as long as it’s done right. As far as I’m aware MINi seem to be preaching the F56 as a lighter, more powerful car and I hope that is the case. I don’t think I’d trust a car to park itself, it just seems wrong. I remember thinking my Dads Volvo was cool because it had a flashing fasten your seat belt light as it was not in any other cars at the time :cool: changed days now. I’ve seen the look on a ten year old when you show him his Gran’s car has windy up windows:scratch: it's brilliant I think he’d Tweet #notimprested


Here Ken I passed first time at 17 but if you took one lesson a week you beat me by five lessons ;) My 14th lesson was the one before my test.


Anyway every MINi has its charms....
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/46944_532095493488005_560070278_n.jpg

[KenL]

I think I had about 14 lessons too! I got 10 for my 17th birthday and then a few extras before the test. Nowadays people seem to have way more than this, learning to drive now is not cheap.

[Stewart]

Standard gift at the time not too sure nowadays.

When I learned to drive Petrol was cheap, Cars were crap and rusted away, there was no problem going on your Dads insurance and traffic police only took pictures when they were on Holiday. If you got 28 mpg obviously you were on a run taking it easy and Petrol smelled right!!!! :hand:

So to tie it back in, some things get better with age.

[Mon the fish]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not fussed about the size of the engine affecting the mpg - I think 30mpg is acceptable for a daily driven performance car. I'd rather have a bigger engine instead of a turbo - ain't no substitute for cubes...

It's just that putting a bigger engine in the S is at odds with what every other car maker is doing at the moment

[ELFMAN]

The current 1.6 Prince engine can easily give out 270ish bhp, and power isn't everything - I'd rather see the F56 slightly down on power compared to bigger cars, but lighter and much better handling. A 2l will always be bigger, heavier and thirstier than a 1.6, and harder to fit into a small engine bay


I'd rather have a bigger engine instead of a turbo - ain't no substitute for cubes...It's just that putting a bigger engine in the S is at odds with what every other car maker is doing at the moment

You're confusing me now Mon! :confused:
Looking at the above quotes - Are you in favour of a larger capacity normally aspirated (more responsive?) engine, which is heavier and thirstier, or smaller (capacity-wise and physically), lighter turbo engine with same power and (more?) torque but which maybe lacks that N/A feel and 'instant hit'? As you said, it would also go against the trend to have a bigger engine these days - eg Renaultsport now using a 1.6 Turbo in the hot Clio as opposed to the 2.0L N/A in the old car. Same power, more torque and emission-compliant future-proofed.

So while the "no substitute for cubes" still holds true on the drag strip (unless you're running a mad twin turbo 3L Supra or a GTR etc...), it could be argued that technological advancement (for better or worse, depending on your standpoint) IS now in fact the substitute for cubes. I'm not trying to be picky, I always value your opinions on these things as you know which way is up, but I always thought you were of the view that weight-saving and dynamic balance were the primary performance targets.

Of course, there's always the exception to the rule... a 6.4 litre Hemi Exception! :thumbs up: :cool:

4001 :smilewinkgrin:

[Angib]

Cooper, B38 1.5L 100kW / 134 HP

My R56 Cooper is 120bhp, not really got an idea what the extra 14 Bhp would be like but it can’t do any harm when the new F56 is supposed to be lighter with better weight distribution. Kind of disappointing only a few extra HP on the S. This is still to be confirmed by BMW mind.:smilewinkgrin:
Switching from a 120hp naturally-aspirated R56 to a turbo 134hp F56 should be quite a step up in real world performance, with the turbo producing more low/medium-revs torque.

It was all the gear-changing in a Cooper that persuaded me to invent some logic that the fuel economy made an SD the right choice for me. And I just put up with all the extra torque........

[Stewart]

See I read that they were all Turbo’s but thought it was wrong. So will in fact the new F56 Cooper have a Turbo? I’ll be down Halfords in a shot if I get a F56 for that Turbo badge !!!! :smilewinkgrin: Not!!!!!!

a new family of turbocharged three-cylinder engines

[ELFMAN]

See I read that they were all Turbo’s but thought it was wrong. So will in fact the new F56 Cooper have a Turbo? I’ll be down Halfords in a shot if I get a F56 for that Turbo badge !!!! :smilewinkgrin: Not!!!!!! a new family of turbocharged three-cylinder engines

Stewart - my 'new' 1.2 Fabia (4 Cyl) is a Turbo!
Badge??? Naw! I'm off for some HUGE sidestripes with 4002in a prominent position! :cool:

[zimbo]

Heads up display :drool::thumbs up:

[Stewart]

Don’t you go messing with my Turbo dream now….:hand:

[The Dogfather]

Turbo engines are the way forward, with the current engines there’s hardly any lag if you’re in the right gear.

[KenL]

I never noticed any lag at all when I had the S.

[ELFMAN]

I never noticed any lag at all when I had the S.

Not 'Lag' as such Ken - well not in the traditional 80's style! I don't have any problems in mine either. It's just that if you've driven, say an R53 JCW, the 'stock' R53 or any normally aspirated 'performance' car, there's a more 'immediate' connection between your right foot and the engine. There's a slightly 'softer' feel with the Turbos which while it can't be described as 'lag', can't match the more 'mechanical' feel of the supercharged S or a powerful N/A engine. You can sometimes catch the turbo 'off guard' by being in too high a gear - but that's a pretty rare occurrence - especially with all the torque of the R56 - not unlike catching a tuned N/A motor 'off cam'. It's certainly not a performance deficit issue, more of a subjective 'seat of the pants' or 'sole of the foot' feeling. You could say it's a Soul Thang!

[N16SHP]

Turbo engines are the way forward, with the current engines there’s hardly any lag if you’re in the right gear.

I was out with my mum yesterday helping her buy a new Fiesta. We took out a 125 1.0 Ecoboost and boy can it shift. It's not rapid quick but lets not beat around the bush, it was far more feisty and fun to drive than a 1.6 Cooper without a turbo. And of course I am only talking about engine comparison, the chassis on the Fiesta is nothing compared to the Mini. Stick some twisties in front of the Cooper and you'll come out smiling more than the Fiesta.

[The Dogfather]

I thought the Fiesta handled brilliantly on a recent test drive, steering was a little light compared to my preference but it was every bit as good as my old Cooper S.

That was the TDCI Zetec S though.

Mind you the new ‘Aston’ nose is vile.

[Mon the fish]

You're confusing me now Mon! :confused:
Looking at the above quotes - Are you in favour of a larger capacity normally aspirated (more responsive?) engine, which is heavier and thirstier, or smaller (capacity-wise and physically), lighter turbo engine with same power and (more?) torque but which maybe lacks that N/A feel and 'instant hit'? As you said, it would also go against the trend to have a bigger engine these days - eg Renaultsport now using a 1.6 Turbo in the hot Clio as opposed to the 2.0L N/A in the old car. Same power, more torque and emission-compliant future-proofed.

So while the "no substitute for cubes" still holds true on the drag strip (unless you're running a mad twin turbo 3L Supra or a GTR etc...), it could be argued that technological advancement (for better or worse, depending on your standpoint) IS now in fact the substitute for cubes. I'm not trying to be picky, I always value your opinions on these things as you know which way is up, but I always thought you were of the view that weight-saving and dynamic balance were the primary performance targets.

Of course, there's always the exception to the rule... a 6.4 litre Hemi Exception! :thumbs up: :cool:

4001 :smilewinkgrin:



Personally, I'm not keen on turbos. I prefer a crisper throttle response, and my engines to headbutt the redline - neither of which a turbo does as well as a NA engine. This is partly why I've kept the 11% JCW pulley and not gone smaller - I want power right to 7000rpm, not to tail off before which the 15 and 17% pulleys do. I prefer feel and character to mpg or outright paper figures.

Back on topic - I appreciate that what I like, isn't for everyone. Hence the proliferation of turbos these days - easy power, better emissions etc. What I am surprised at, is that Mini are increasing the size of the engine (whilst still using a turbo). You would think that if the current engine can give 270bhp easily and safely, surely a clean-sheet design (of the same cc) would give more if needed?

Just seems strange to go to a 2.0l turbo, when a 1.6 turbo would be enough you would think. Personally, I'd like a 2.0 NA, tuned to 240bhp or so in the JCW...

[Stewart]

I think the 2lt Turbo engine is being more developed for BMW. I certainly think BMW decided when we are developing this new engine why not use it as much as we can and if it fits into the MINI then the brand can share the costs. It's all about sharing with the next generation as we have seen with the cross over of chassis between the MINI and the One series,most of the Tech and even moving to a five bolt pattern to match the new front wheel drive BMW. The one series shares the same Engines with the 118i with 170bhp and the 116i with 136bhp to Match the Cooper S and Cooper respectively by the looks of it.

The new Golf GTi out this year has a 2.0-litre turbocharged direct-injection petrol engine. They are also preaching lighter engine with better economy. And that’s before you get to those R series Golf’s that will probably have the same engine tweaked. The flag ship Audi A1 sports a 2.0 T FSI too.

[Mon the fish]

A part of me cried though when the Golf R went from a 3.2 V6 to a 2.0T though, the V6 was an epic engine

[Stewart]

Much the same as the Rover V8 engine was a total beast but there comes a time when it makes no sense when technology gives so many gains in my view.

[ELFMAN]

Personally, I'm not keen on turbos. I prefer a crisper throttle response, and my engines to headbutt the redline - neither of which a turbo does as well as a NA engine. This is partly why I've kept the 11% JCW pulley and not gone smaller - I want power right to 7000rpm, not to tail off before which the 15 and 17% pulleys do. I prefer feel and character to mpg or outright paper figures.

:off topic:Agreed. I loved my JCW 210 (JCW pulley) - it felt lke a 'proper' engine especially with the added bits I had on it. My R56 is probably as quick (or quicker?), but it certainly doesn't have that 'visceral' feeling of the old unit, there's still a 'softer' edge. With the JCW upgrade, downpipe and intercooler it's got a bit more character though, as well as feeling a bit more 'up for it' more often and at higher revs, but for pure thrills (and soundtrack), it's still hard to beat a tuned R53.

- - - Updated - - -


Much the same as the Rover V8 engine was a total beast but there comes a time when it makes no sense when technology gives so many gains in my view.

The 'factory' Rover V8 was a lazy, unstressed old lump until TVR and various tuners decided to give it some 'cohones' though Stewart :smilewinkgrin:
I know technology is very handy, but I've yet to hear an eco-efficient modern smaller capacity engine sound like an angry Griffith! :thumbs up:

[Stewart]

See I’m out of my comfort zone regarding pulley etc and the Rover V8 I was exposed too was race tuned and left all the hot hatches of the day for dead and it roared at them while doing it. :shut up: It was one of the few things my mate had you could go from point A to point B and only say a few words a lights as the rest of the time with his driving style you were deff.

Your slowly eating away at my Turbo dream you two…..:smilewinkgrin:

[ELFMAN]

Your slowly eating away at my Turbo dream you two…..:smilewinkgrin:

I'm LIVING the Turbo Dream Stewart - so I'm not knocking it! I think the R56 engine is great - it's got the power and loads of torque AND I don't have to drive with one eye on the road and the other on the fuel gauge, so it's the best of both worlds really. The point about the 'feel' and delivery of Turbo Vs N/A can be a very subjective one - modern turbo set-ups are massively more sophisticated than they used to be, to the extent that most folks would never know they were there, but there's something about the 'directness' (no 'spooling-up' time) of the supercharged R53 or a powerful normally aspirated engine that just makes the whole experience a bit more 'personal'! :blush:

[Stewart]

The only time I’ve ever felt my car was underpowered was following Alex and realised that there is a good difference in torque when having to drop a gear or two round bends going up a hill in the Cooper. I knew right away the S was pulling up no matter what gear it was in and would keep on pulling. My Cooper was getting to that point “right I’m puffed out at this gear and I’m losing speed” kind of deal. But that was partly due to my driving style as well.

While a more Aggressive style would keep up, at that time of the run nearing the end of the second day I’d have bitten your hand off for that easy of power I was seeing in front.

[Mon the fish]

I'm LIVING the Turbo Dream Stewart - so I'm not knocking it! I think the R56 engine is great - it's got the power and loads of torque AND I don't have to drive with one eye on the road and the other on the fuel gauge, so it's the best of both worlds really. The point about the 'feel' and delivery of Turbo Vs N/A can be a very subjective one - modern turbo set-ups are massively more sophisticated than they used to be, to the extent that most folks would never know they were there, but there's something about the 'directness' (no 'spooling-up' time) of the supercharged R53 or a powerful normally aspirated engine that just makes the whole experience a bit more 'personal'! :blush:

And my engine isn't getting coked up :p

[ELFMAN]

And my engine isn't getting coked up :p

Neither's mine. It's in my garage :moonie:

[Neil - TXJ]

Does anybody know when the new F56 will actually come out. I swap my MCS in November and wondered if the new model would be out by then.

Also what models tend to come out initially, i.e. is it just the cooper with the S coming out later? Would probably be the SD I would be interested in depending on costs.

Cheers.

[Stewart]

I’m sure the news is that it will be shown first at the Frankfurt International Motor show in September with production and orders shortly after. "The shortly" after varies from being on sale this year to March 2014 depending on what your read.
It’s been a bit sketchy with news as they rightly want to concentrate on the Paceman.

Still dying to see what it will look like!

[N16SHP]

Also what models tend to come out initially, i.e. is it just the cooper with the S coming out later? Would probably be the SD I would be interested in depending on costs.



Normally they leave the FJCW until last but as we've seen with the Paceman, they are launching that right out the gate so I assume all models will be available (please someone correct me if I'm wrong!)

[zimbo]

As far as I know/heard the new mini F56 will probably be out on sale by the end of this year, apparently there was a prototype at the venue for all the MINI dealership salesmen/woman who attended their official viewing of the Paceman a few weeks ago somewhere in England.

this is all I've heard, not heard anything else re: looks etc etc

:yes nod:

[zimbo]

Thats it mate, just couldn't remember the name :Whistle:

...Manchester sheesh :rolleyes: that must have been exciting for all of them hey :hand:

[Stewart]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/408940_334214936619288_2042330606_n.jpg

I nearly bought a fantastic Cooper all Red with the sports pack and it was fully loaded with only hundreds on the Clock. Seen it while I had the Car in for one of its TLC services. Went back for a second look a few days later and to talk trade in etc and it was gone. ( been parked next to it at the shops a few times) Also looked at a split new SD but it just did not make sense with the miles I do.

So I decided to keep my currant Coop that I’ve had since July 2008, its never given me a problem and is only 32K on the clock. And Ill take a serious look early next year on the F56.

If it looks strange in any way I'll pass!

[N16SHP]

^^ Good looking Coop Stewart but I think you made the right decision sticking with what you got. It's going to take a lot to prise me out of my R56 S if the new F56 is not a looker. That said, as mentioned elsewhere I am already hankering after a Paceman FJCW lol.

[Stewart]

Paceman FJCW = £30K :thud::smilewinkgrin:

This is what you want when the wee one is out of Prams, Pushchairs:smilewinkgrin:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/559939_255473531255156_1029809388_n.jpg

[Alex from NM]

5 doors makes me want to cry a little

[The Dogfather]

Makes me want to cry a lot, I hope that's a mock up its supposed to be a MINI FFS - 3 doors - and that badge is so big its practically structural.

[Stewart]

Its ok its a mock up of what they think the F55 would look like not the F56...:smilewinkgrin:

Next Generation MINI to Feature Five Door Hatch Model Or so they said!


http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq72/sav112g/index_zps54864627.jpg

[The Dogfather]

more cock up than mock up IMO

[N16SHP]

I agree with the above, apart from the extra doors, it's a good looking car! I think it will look epic in S and FJCW guise.

:off topic: Stewart - The price tag of the FJCW Paceman is always the stumbling block! I need the little one out of the pram and an extra £30k a year on top of my salary before I can get one...anyone won the lottery recently who can help me out :D Plus I don't think I could stomach spending £30k on a Mini.

[Stewart]

I think the new F56 S could be a really nice sweet spot if they have done it right with the 2lt engine. But regarding the Cooper and the new three cylinder Turbo it will be interesting how it goes with more the reported HP up to 134Bhp from the currant 120bhp. A more powerful Works and more economical cant be to hard to expect.

But as always it comes down to looks, I’m sure I’ll like it but always fear it getting less Fun MINI and more sensible.

[Alex from NM]

I think the new F56 S could be a really nice sweet spot if they have done it right with the 2lt engine. But regarding the Cooper and the new three cylinder Turbo it will be interesting how it goes with more the reported HP up to 134Bhp from the currant 120bhp. A more powerful Works and more economical cant be to hard to expect.

But as always it comes down to looks, I’m sure I’ll like it but always fear it getting less Fun MINI and more sensible.

I think its gonna need the extra power to cope with the extra weight to be honest. Would also be interested to see if the 3 pot isn't detuned for the hatch with the Country/Paceman getting the 130 version.

[Stewart]

We believe that MINI intends on spreading the three cylinders across the MINI One and Cooper models initially with a very similar three cylinder diesel (reportedly code-named B37) joining the ranks. Sources are telling us that power ratings should be slightly higher than the current range on both the three and four cylinder models. But it’s the efficiency gains and the weight losses that are the big story. We’ve been told to not be surprised to see US Spec three cylinder Cooper achieve upper 40 mpg figures on the highway. Additionally the engines should be measurably lighter and allow for better weight distribution front to rear.

Ultimately we believe that the three cylinder engines will not only make their way to the hatch based models but also other MINIs as well. For instance don’t be surprised to see the base Cooper Countryman eventually get the ultra efficient power plant in a late cycle update.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2013/01/09/minis-3-cylinder-engine-previewed/

All the articles I read pointed to the fact that the base Cooper Turbo 1.5 3Cyl Cooper has 134hp . The S was up to 187hp on the four Cyl. Guess we will have hope for the best. I’d be delighted with a lighter Hatch, with slightly more power and better MPG. That would do me nicely. Just as long as its design was not done by the lads that did the fiat 500L…..I actually like the Fiat 500, it’s quirky, small and looks a lot of fun so why they thought changing it into a MPV is anyone’s guess with the 500L.

MINI product cycles in that they seem to get the build quality usually right in the last few year of production to that of the first few still is a worry. I think they have spent too much time, money and effort to let this new bread of engine be a dog.

[Stewart]

A wee pic of the new Dash! Also note the Door Mirror with the space for airflow through it. Also interesting are small diffusers ahead of the front wheels. They are still suggesting this platform for the hatch car readily take the All4 platform. Will we see a more powerful S and Work with All4????


http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/MINI-F56-2014-Erlkoenig-Innenraum-02.jpg
http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/MINI-F56-2014-Erlkoenig-Innenraum-03.jpg
http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/MINI-F56-2014-Erlkoenig-01-655x491.jpg

[Gismo]

Am wondering if there will be noise from the opened door mirror?

[Big Col]

I'd be amazed if they made it on to the production car. I assumed they were to disguise silhouette or similar?

[Stewart]

Am wondering if there will be noise from the opened door mirror?

I’ll just be happy if they are heated as standard. :frown:


I'd be amazed if they made it on to the production car. I assumed they were to disguise silhouette or similar?

Probably right and could just be a Cold weather thing to push the snow out being just a test Mule ;)
http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/MINI-F56-2014-Erlkoenig-07-655x436.jpg
http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/MINI-F56-2014-Erlkoenig-03.jpg

[Neil - TXJ]

Looks like speedo is in front of driver.

[zimbo]

:frown: that does not look good AT ALL!!! The new speedo setup with the rev counter attached to its side looks awful and like something you'd find in the bargain bin at halfrauds or something, so if the speedo is going there then whats going where the usual big central one used to be? :scratch:, yeah so far me no likey :hand:

...BUT I'll leave my final thoughts until I see and drive the car eventually as usual :yes nod:

[Neil - TXJ]

I have actually never been keen on central speedo. I never look at it and passengers give it considerable attention!

Appreciate the history but not an issue for me - the little digital read out on rev counter is enough for me.

[Stewart]

The centre where the Speedo used to be is now the Connectivity hub. I’ve not seen the Mini Connect in action or the like but it’s the media centre, Satnav, communications etc now. I take it we could actually have some new dials like digital water temp in there but then that’s probably asking too much.

I was hoping for two Rev counters with one being the Speedo but it looks like they have sliced half of one on to the side of a full one??????

[Gismo]

I actually quite like the look of the side rev counter, this would free up the centre console section to allow a decent hi fi to be installed including the option of a double din or sat nav feature there.

Remember the later classic mini's ditched the central large speedo

[zimbo]

I actually quite like the look of the side rev counter, this would free up the centre console section to allow a decent hi fi to be installed including the option of a double din or sat nav feature there.

Remember the later classic mini's ditched the central large speedo

If this happens I'll eat my hat :lol:, not being able to put in my OWN stereo has always bugged the heck out of me since they fitted speedo/stereo combo monstrosity :vsad::stamp:

[weefossy]

Front looks OK, certainly not following the "bull nosed" Countryman. Is the rear quarter longer, or am I wrong?

[Stewart]

I think the Rear of this S is just out the parts bin. The lights are well known to be nothing like this from what I can gather. Heavily camouflaged its hard to tell with the windows all taped up etc. A few reports suggested because they want to keep the look secret that the test mules don’t give a true hint of it’s final production form.

[Crombers]

If this happens I'll eat my hat :lol:, not being able to put in my OWN stereo has always bugged the heck out of me since they fitted speedo/stereo combo monstrosity :vsad::stamp:

How many hats is that that you've now not got :lol:

[Stewart]

Better shot on the most basic trim regarding the dash. Not to sure about it and I hope that’s just a stock BMW steering wheel as its killed the cute wheel I’ve loved over the years in the MINI. Is it just me or is it missing a CD player????? One the best parts of the design on the MINI was I could change the heating, track, Volume etc without looking. This looks packed full of small buttons!



http://i.imgur.com/FxpEy0F.jpg

We’ve seen glimpses of the interior before but none quite like this. Snapped by a Reddit user what we see above is a full view of the base F56 interior. When we say base we’re specifically referring to one of the two sizes of LCD screen that will likely prevalent on most MINIs sold. What we see here is the cheapest spec interior (there will be four total). The higher spec interiors will actually feature different and improved soft dash materials similar to the new 1 Series BMW.

Then there’s the odd looking bezel around the central stack. That bezel is a bit more than the simple piece of plastic it may seem. The strip around the circular portion of the centre stack is actually mood lighting which lights up and swirls around when you engage the keyless ignition (now standard).

And yes, the center speedometer is gone. Instead it’s replaced by a larger digital unit behind the wheel directly in the driver’s line of site as well as the traditional analog unit. The new tack will be a smaller, semi-circular gauge attached to the left hand side of the speedometer. It’s a more contemporary design, and frankly, a little funky.

http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Mini-Cooper-Erlkoenig-19-fotoshowImageNew-b2bc7507-611282.jpeg
The top end screen.
http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/nav.jpg#

[KenL]

Interesting!

Although this gives a better idea I think we still need to see it with correct wheel. It would also be good to get am image with the dash switched on.

[zimbo]

:frown: oh dear... Looks like if i'm ever going to get myself a JCW it's going to have to be one of this years ones (2013) R56 version, coz like you Stewart I really like the funky mini 3 spoke steering wheel and NOT the BMW monstrosity they call a steering wheel and those rectangular air vents besides the screen look awful. Not so sure how this key-less ignition will work, I assume this means that you will never lock the steering wheel in position again like you have been able to do since forever coz you could unlock it again once you inserted the key into the ignition but if theres no ignition for a key then there cant be a way of locking the wheel in position :rolleyes:

Infact that whole dash looks plain cheap and nasty and looks crap :moonie: ...and you just KNOW that these cars are going to be even more expensive than our current cars :frown:

[The Dogfather]

It looks like gradually the mini design language is being replaced by BMW's corporate face. The ugly squared centre vents don't work with the eyeball ones and the rest of the dash looks cheap.

I just hope this isn't a final version and that there are some design flourishes to come, the interior is one of the MINI's key selling points.

[weefossy]

I used to like the 2 dial speedo and rev counter (behind the steering wheel) we had in the red convertible. I never look at the big dial in the middle of the R56 for speed. It's just for music sat nav, phone etc. I use the digital speedo on the rev counter, so new version seems alright by me. not sure about steering wheel or square vents. Jury is out on them at the moment.

[Stewart]

The wheel is out the parts bin and to disregarded going by all the reviews and articles. Square vents are sad to see as well but they don’t look right, something just to me looks iffy! Be interesting to see if that will be in the final build



So that bit to the right of the Rev counter/ Speedo is that space for the - JCW Gear Shift Indicator lights??????
http://www.mini2.com/galleries/data/2029/JCW_Gear_Shift_Indicator.JPGhttp://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq72/sav112g/JCWlights_zpsec3b87e8.jpg


That centre Consol reminds me of these from the 80's (Terrahawks)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ruf9JBv9V4U/ScO81N9Rz7I/AAAAAAAABas/9xHw_Bt3B6o/s400/rotundus-terrahawks.jpghttp://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq72/sav112g/centredisplay2_zps7ee5175c.jpg


Seems like a lot of wasted space, I'd have loved a Retro Smiths Water Temp and Turbo Vac Guage....

[Angib]

The strip around the circular portion of the centre stack is actually mood lighting which lights up and swirls around when you engage the keyless ignition (now standard).

Because Mini were worried that the existing colour-changing 'mood' lighting wasn't tasteless enough, so now they've really chavved up the lightshow?

Oh, goody.

[Stewart]

Because Mini were worried that the existing colour-changing 'mood' lighting wasn't tasteless enough, so now they've really chavved up the lightshow?

Oh, goody.

Got the mood lighting in my Car, think I’ve changed through the Colours four or five times to show people before reverting it right back. It not something I’d miss in truth. In saying that My Sisters MINI is on Orange and I’m on the Blue so I suppose its good for setting it up for your taste.

[ELFMAN]

It looks like gradually the mini design language is being replaced by BMW's corporate face. The ugly squared centre vents don't work with the eyeball ones and the rest of the dash looks cheap. I just hope this isn't a final version and that there are some design flourishes to come, the interior is one of the MINI's key selling points.

Very much agree with you on this Paul.
IMHO BMW are gradually turning the MINI into a Generic BMW Hatchback by 'ironing out' all the orginal MINI 'quirks' (ie everything which sets it apart form the Herd) in favour of 'please everybody' run-of-the-mill stuff. Give it 5 years and it'll be just another family-friendly hatch. Might be well-made, but it won't have SOUL! :frown:
As for replacing the trademark central speedo with an Early Learning Centre light-up frisbee, it's just b*ll*cks. it's a CAR, not a bleedin' Toddlers' Activity Centre:thud:
I suppose it gives folks something to play with while, rather than go looking for a great B-Road, they sit in a two hour queue for 'Krappy Kreep' Donuts... Call me a luddite, call me an old stick in the mud, I don't give a monkeys - and I'll never queue for feckin' doughnuts!

For me, the whole process is like turning Bjork into Dido (the musical equivalent of Quorn) by constant genetic engineering :ragin:

[The Dogfather]

On the subject of interiors, and sporty small cars for that matter. Has anyone seen the Kia Provo?

4130 4131 4132


I really like this, MINI could learn a thing or two from the simplicity of the interior.

[Stewart]

I think the new Car has some very positive points like the new power plant being more economical and lighter and more powerful. The new lights etc. The body I think will have a nip and a tuck but still be very close to what we have now. The worry is a boring non MINI interior (decided by suits all parking M-series BMW outside) That would be hard to forgive.

[KenL]

If you zoom in to the new picture it is pretty clear that a lot of it (rectangular vents etc.) are just a disguise.

On Elfman's comments, I really dont understand how BMW are turning the brand into something more generic. MINI has been trying hard to give the brand a more unique image. I don't think they would have bothered with the Coupe or Roadster if they wanted to make the cars more mainstream. I certainly don't think there is much money to be made from them.

People have now seen how the new car will look. I am told it has a very similar look to now (round headlights etc.) so it is not going to be some boring hatch we wont be able to connect with.

[Stewart]

The interior is very rough it has to be said with Gaps etc. It could be MINI trying to mislead the competitors only to surprise we can only hope :thumbs up: Wires showing off the big centerpiece and what looks like a broken start switch :(

[The Dogfather]

If you zoom in to the new picture it is pretty clear that a lot of it (rectangular vents etc.) are just a disguise.

On Elfman's comments, I really dont understand how BMW are turning the brand into something more generic. MINI has been trying hard to give the brand a more unique image. I don't think they would have bothered with the Coupe or Roadster if they wanted to make the cars more mainstream. I certainly don't think there is much money to be made from them.

People have now seen how the new car will look. I am told it has a very similar look to now (round headlights etc.) so it is not going to be some boring hatch we wont be able to connect with.

Ken, I zoomed in and they look real to me, you can see the vents have a louvre that sits behind the up and down one that moves left to right. As for the Coupe and Roadster, they're just MINIs attempt to tap into the RCZ and TT market that all, its not like they spent much on development.

[MINIme:)]

not feeling the love for this. That dash is a mess, so many mismatching bits and clutter. Not impressed so far by the shape either :idunno:

[ELFMAN]

On Elfman's comments, I really dont understand how BMW are turning the brand into something more generic. MINI has been trying hard to give the brand a more unique image. I don't think they would have bothered with the Coupe or Roadster if they wanted to make the cars more mainstream. I certainly don't think there is much money to be made from them. People have now seen how the new car will look. I am told it has a very similar look to now (round headlights etc.) so it is not going to be some boring hatch we wont be able to connect with.

Like I said Ken, give it five years and I'll bet the MINI hatch will have as much or more in common with the future 1 Series (or the VW Polo...) than it has with the R53 or the R56, which I think is quite sad because I love these cars. As for MINI "Trying to give the brand a more unique image", you can't get less or more unique - you're either unique or you're not and anyway, weren't the Gen 1 and 2 cars genuinely unique?

In my opinion, the MINI Hatch is gradually losing the design features and aesthetic visual appeal of the early cars - which we all fell in love with and which set it apart from everything else on the road - in favour of a what looks like a less rounded, less 'pretty' bodyshell and a quirk-free 'sensible' (ie boring) interior. I'm not saying the new cars won't be good to look at and drive, I just doubt they'll be GREAT.

[Crombers]

Like I said Ken, give it five years and I'll bet the MINI hatch will have as much or more in common with the future 1 Series (or the VW Polo...) than it has with the R53 or the R56, which I think is quite sad because I love these cars. As for MINI "Trying to give the brand a more unique image", you can't get less or more unique - you're either unique or you're not and anyway, weren't the Gen 1 and 2 cars genuinely unique?

In my opinion, the MINI Hatch is gradually losing the design features and aesthetic visual appeal of the early cars - which we all fell in love with and which set it apart from everything else on the road - in favour of a what looks like a less rounded, less 'pretty' bodyshell and a quirk-free 'sensible' (ie boring) interior. I'm not saying the new cars won't be good to look at and drive, I just doubt they'll be GREAT.

Can't disagree with anything 'hiselfmeisterchief' has said :frown: , smacks of 'diluted product' to me :idunno:

Upon it's introduction can you honestly see yourself driving past a MINI showroom (as in circa 2001+) going :yes:

Nope :sad:

Could it be that BMW have used brand MINI to get a (long term) foothold in the all important small hatch sector & are now tweeking things their corporate way :blink:

[N16SHP]

The only thing I like about the new dash layout is the start toggle...2//10 Mini!

[ELFMAN]

For me, I think it boils down to the fact that I fear the MINI hatch is slowly transforming into the type of 'ordinary' warm/hot hatchback I switched from when the MINI first appeared. It's obviously not happening overnight, but the gentle erosion of 'MINI-ness' is a worry. If MINI pursue a process of 'normalisation', then the incentive to buy a MINI is diminished - there are plenty of good (and despite the MINI changes, still more practical) fast hatchbacks out there, often for less money...

You can love a car, but if that car changes over time into what is ostensibly a different vehicle, these 'degrees of separation' from the original concept does have a bearing on how you feel about it. It's like a woman marrying Johnny Depp and a few years later realising she's with Ed Milliband.

[Stewart]

Pre-production MINI F56 models ready to roll
April 4th, 2013


BMW’s third-generation MINI, codenamed F56, is about to enter pre-production phase with ‘kite-flyer’ models set to roll off the Plant Oxford production line this week.As you might expect, mixing two different generations of MINI on the production line presents a few challenges. Although that trend will continue for around two more years while the second-gen R56 models slowly wither away as up to 10 new F56-based models come on line.
The F56 is due to hit showrooms later this year and to cater for the expected increased demand MINIs a second production facility, NedCar in the Netherlands, will ramp up in 2014. NedCar will join Magna Steyr’s Austrian plant, which currently builds the Countryman and Paceman, as the only facilities outside of England to build MINIs. In time, though, MINI is expected to concentrate production at Oxford and NedCar, with Magna expected to build another BMW branded model(s) once the current-gen Countryman platform reaches the end of its product cycle.

http://www.ausmotive.com/pics/2013/MINI-Plant-Oxford-turns-100-12.jpg

Probably be a short run of a few cars but surly someone will get a picture. I guess the Factory Visits are shut down just now then? If they were not going to let us see anything GP2 last year I doubt they’d want anyone near the new F56.

[KenL]

Stewart,

Is this the new MINI? I can't believe it, it looks like a MINI.

How dare they disappoint us and not change it into something we can all dislike and complain that it has been watered down and the original MINI lifeblood sucked out of it :lol:

[Mon the fish]

That's an R56, you can tell by the fake scoop...

[KenL]

That's an R56, you can tell by the fake scoop...

Will the new S not have a scoop?

[weefossy]

Think that's defo an R56. One good point about getting nearer to a BMW is that we could get BMW sport seats fitted. Better than anything Mini has produced so far.

[Stewart]

Sorry ken should have said that was just a stock picture- “My Bad” as they say.

Stick the new Engine in the R56 Shell above and I’d be happy enough.

[Mon the fish]

Will the new S not have a scoop?

If it's got a FMIC, hopefully not

[ELFMAN]

Is this the new MINI? I can't believe it, it looks like a MINI. How dare they disappoint us and not change it into something we can all dislike and complain that it has been watered down and the original MINI lifeblood sucked out of it :lol:

Oh Ha Ha Ha Ken... I haven't laughed as much since I had kidney stones :smilewinkgrin:

Just wait, you'll see - MINI's long-term ambition is to turn our beloved wee hatch into a huge amphibious 15-door double-decker 'Omnivehicle' sports utility people-carrier powered by a large vegetable casserole. Then you'll be sorry you mocked the 'Doubters'! :yes nod:

- - - Updated - - -


That's an R56, you can tell by the fake scoop...

Mon, the R56 scoop actually has holes in the black plastic grille, so it's only "Semi-Fake"! :smilewinkgrin:
If you fit certain aftermarket induction kits, you wheech out the grille altogether and the scoop works in the 'traditional' manner :thumbs up:

[Mon the fish]

Mon, the R56 scoop actually has holes in the black plastic grille, so it's only "Semi-Fake"! :smilewinkgrin:
If you fit certain aftermarket induction kits, you wheech out the grille altogether and the scoop works in the 'traditional' manner :thumbs up:

Aware of that, the 24hr Ring one used some kind of ram intake I think.

But on a bone stock car, it does naff all - there's nothing behind the scoop to feed air to

[Alex from NM]

Aem and m7 both do an intake which utilises the r56 scoop. It was supposes to be a cosmetic feature but if you see the heat that pours out from them I reckon they do actually help with heat transfer away from the engine bay.

[ELFMAN]

But on a bone stock car, it does naff all - there's nothing behind the scoop to feed air to

I'll agree that on a stock motor/intake, the effect on power etc will probably be zero, BUT having said that, as Paul mentioned, getting ANY air into that oven of an engine bay - or letting any heat OUT when static after a run is a positive. Presumably a small amount of cold air must enter the scoop on the move, despite the grille 'masking' a lot of it, which might lower the ambient engine bay temperature by a small amount.

[Mon the fish]

But if it's not affecting IATs, it'll make no difference to power...

[MINIme:)]

it looks better with a scoop whether it makes a difference or not

[Mon the fish]

See, I disagree. I like the clean look of the Cooper bonnet, even on the Gen 1's

[Crombers]

See, I disagree. I like the clean look of the Cooper bonnet, even on the Gen 1's

Am I allowed to agree & say :yes:

[MINIme:)]

I think my Cooper bonnet looks :sadangel: without a scoop

[weefossy]

Hope the improvements in the New New Mini get as good a write up as the R56 did back then........and only £17k for an S!!

[Stewart]

So this is what a MINI Shop looks like?
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n587/alancarleton/MINI%20Plant%20Tour/EFA46F2C-CBD0-401D-8AAD-1C6419ED4064-528-0000003D3F35E953_zpse2accd91.jpg

A group on TM had a factory visit but due to work being done to the actual plant itself and a suspected F56 going round it was cut short.

And yes I'm still pissed I did not get a MINI Tshirt from the shop at the plant as it was shut :smilewinkgrin:

[Mon the fish]

I wonder if the sign next to the car says 'This is the size they used to be, before we made them fat. Honest!'

[Stewart]

I wonder if the sign next to the car says 'This is the size they used to be, before we made them fat. Honest!'

From personal experience it probably reads

“Needs full time mechanic to run apply within”


:smilewinkgrin:

[Stewart]

http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/2014-MINI-F56-Dachreling-Erlkoenig-Dachtraeger-3-655x493.jpg
http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/2014-MINI-F56-Dachreling-Erlkoenig-Dachtraeger-4-655x492.jpg
http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/2014-MINI-F56-Dachreling-Erlkoenig-Dachtraeger-5-655x493.jpg


Just some more of a test Mule. Main thing I can see is the Roof has raised bits on it?????

[zimbo]

And the door mirror looks MAHOOSIVE!!!! :unsure: and its got 5 stud wheels...

[ELFMAN]

Well that doesn't do it any favours does it? Really hope the 'roof bars' are fake, 'cos they look sh*t.
Maybe they're making the mirrors bigger to make the car look smaller - like they tried with the gargantuan MINI badge on the back of Countryman and Paceman?

[KenL]

That badge is huge as it houses the boot release.

I think the f56 is no bigger than the r56.

Dealers have seen how the new car will look and from what was described to me it will NOT be the disaster some people are predicting.

I am really looking forward to seeing it, the new interior and the new engines etc.

[Stewart]

Dealers have seen how the new car will look and from what was described to me it will be the disaster some people are predicting.

That does not sound good! I love the idea of the new engine and I just hope they do not kill the fun element. If they loose what I’d consider “ That cheeky MINI look” I’ll be tracking down a late R56 next year!

Did no one learn from the Golf, it went from a Hot Hatch to some distorted family lets try and please everyone car that just looked fat. Its came back now but for years it looked just plain boring.

[KenL]

That does not sound good! I love the idea of the new engine and I just hope they do not kill the fun element. If they loose what I’d consider “ That cheeky MINI look” I’ll be tracking down a late R56 next year!

Did no one learn from the Golf, it went from a Hot Hatch to some distorted family lets try and please everyone car that just looked fat. Its came back now but for years it looked just plain boring.

Just checked my original post.

Can't believe I missed the word not. The car will NOT be a disaster.
It will be evolutionary and immediately recognisable as a MINI.

I was told it would have round headlights, slimmer plastic arches and slightly flared rear arches.

[MINIme:)]

And yes I'm still pissed I did not get a MINI Tshirt from the shop at the plant as it was shut :smilewinkgrin:

ME TOO!! I hold grudges. But we're being harsh, why would a big group of enthusiasts who've travelled hundreds of miles be interested in a tshirt. or a pen. or a bag. that's crazy talk.


I am NOT loving the apparent look of the new lights :sad: or in fact the shape :idunno: the body shape shouts 1980s at me for some reason. :frown: :argh: :yuk:
:sadangel:

[Mon the fish]

Front overhang is a slight concern

[Big Col]

Can't believe I missed the word not. The car will NOT be a disaster.

:eek: Positive talk! In this thread! Out! Just get out!

[Stewart]

Can't believe I missed the word not. The car will NOT be a disaster.
It will be evolutionary and immediately recognisable as a MINI.



:sheep:Thats a huge “not” to miss:hand::smilewinkgrin:


Just to add these were spotted at a official Mini stand at a car show.
http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/photo-31-640x469.jpg
http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/photo-21-640x478.jpg
http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/photo-1.jpg


A few weeks back at this year’s Geneva Motorshow an MF reader noticed something odd about the fogs of the R56 hatch on the MINI stand. The Foglights were completely different and 100% LED rather than the standard bulbs. A closer look revealed even more. They were fully LED, and illuminated in three ways: the upper half of the halo only, the full halo, or the full halo and the fog lamp lit up.

In the words of MF reader Jason who spotted them, “They look amazing – much better than stock.” However surprisingly the folks at the MINI stand knew nothing about them. We know they were an officially MINI part since they had the world “MINI” stamped into the center of the light itself (and of course they were on the stand of a major auto show).

Over the past couple of week We’ve done some asking around but have thus far come up empty. . Does anything have any light to shed on these new LED fog lights? Are they unreleased accessories? Or maybe a sneak peek at what to expect on the F56? Or perhaps just MINI designers having a laugh?

[zimbo]

Would love these for my car :thumbs up: Saw these pics a little while ago.
Disturbing to think that the people working on the stand FOR MINI did not know anything about these new lights :thud:, useless so and sos

[ELFMAN]

That badge is huge as it houses the boot release.

I think the f56 is no bigger than the r56. Dealers have seen how the new car will look and from what was described to me it will NOT be the disaster some people are predicting. I am really looking forward to seeing it, the new interior and the new engines etc.

I know it houses the boot release! But surely that must make it the world's biggest:arms: Boot Release... :Whistle:

I'm not predicting the F56 will be a disaster, but I think a healthy dose of 'petrolhead cynicism' actually keeps MINI on its toes and makes sure they try to maintain the looks and dynamic integrity we all love about the hatchback. Contrary to popular belief, I still have faith that there are enough old-fashoned MINI enthusiasts in the Design and Engineering departments at Oxford to make sure that the F56 will be a MINI we can all be proud of. 'Some people' on NMS get slagged off for being 'naysayers' and 'luddites', but if MINI didn't have to keep us in mind, we'd probably have a range of uber-practical, stylish MPVs (complete with massive rear badges and 'pick & mix' signage) and no sign of a driver-focussed hatchback.

Personally I'd rather be seen as being a bit grumpy than Cannon-fodder for the MINI Marketing Department! :ragin::moonie: :thumbs up:

[Stewart]

http://miniology.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/mini-spaceconcept-1600.jpg
Disclaimer: (The above Graphic is purposely intended to be a shocking example of what a magazine can think with little to no work and to be regarded in this post to be the worst case scenario a MINI could be by the member posting it. It has no supporting Data, expresses no accuracy or relevance to anything BMW or MINI and is at all cost to be regarded as fictitious. No liability whatsoever from resulting in a poor next car purchase or Injury based on this picture will be furnished by the original poster. This is not the new F56! If you feel this picture to be misleading and to have offended we apologise profusely. Those of you with an overwhelming fear of the unknown will be gratified to learn that there is no hidden message revealed by reading this warning backwards)




With you on that Mr Elf. After all without any fear you could end up with the above.

I’ve been over critical in some of the comments posted elsewhere over some of the interior shots etc. You feel it’s an unstoppable surge from BMW to turn it into a baby BMW rather than kep its links to the original MINI.

I have no qualms it will drive as good as ever the new F56 but it has to look the part, it has to instantly look MINI.

[Mon the fish]

If you always think pessimistic, you'll always be pleasantly surprised...

Glass half empty, as it's your round...

[d.oxley72]

F56 interior shots look promising, but wary about how much it has grown over the current model. As for possible 3 cylinder, I tested a 3 pot Polo a couple of years ago and it awful.
http://www.motoringfile.com/section/f56/

While I appreciate there are merits to the Countryman, I don't want the Hatch to grow any more and become a 5 door.
As for a possible MINI mpv, that would be a model that would ruin the MINI marque in my opinion. Personally The Rocketman concept needs to be further developed and finalised.

[KenL]

F56 interior shots look promising, but wary about how much it has grown over the current model. As for possible 3 cylinder, I tested a 3 pot Polo a couple of years ago and it awful.
http://www.motoringfile.com/section/f56/

While I appreciate there are merits to the Countryman, I don't want the Hatch to grow any more and become a 5 door.
As for a possible MINI mpv, that would be a model that would ruin the MINI marque in my opinion. Personally The Rocketman concept needs to be further developed and finalised.

The f56 will not be bigger (unless you choose the 5 door). It is also predicted to be lighter, something we all agree is a good thing we all agree on for performance.

- - - Updated - - -


http://miniology.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/mini-spaceconcept-1600.jpg

With you on that Mr Elf. After all without any fear you could end up with the above.

I’ve been over critical in some of the comments posted elsewhere over some of the interior shots etc. You feel it’s an unstoppable surge from BMW to turn it into a baby BMW rather than kep its links to the original MINI.

I have no qualms it will drive as good as ever the new F56 but it has to look the part, it has to instantly look MINI.

Posting magazine images that are completely made up and no more like the real thing than a version I could draw is possibly not a good idea?

[Stewart]

Posting magazine images that are completely made up and no more like the real thing than a version I could draw is possibly not a good idea?


Far easier to find a picture of the worst idea of a mini I could find than draw it even if this has never crossed a BMW design desk.:p I think the NMS peeps are smart enough to realise it was up there in jest. Disclaimer: added:thumbs up:

Having a light-hearted poke for fun at what BMW would probably think was acceptable if we were not a bunch of MINI enthusiasts at heart was harmless enough. Clearly the more fear BMW has about loosing the very customers that made MINI the success it is today by purchasing the R50 etc and caming back for the R56 the better. It keeps them in check and hence why the dealers sneak peek probably revealed it is not that far removed from what we have right now.

I think the Clubman will be the first to disappear from the range and I hope I’m wrong as I really like them and I could see a Roadster/Coupe variant arrive with a tin lid. As others have said and I firmly believe it as well, the Hatch should always be the Rock of the Mini Range.

[KenL]

Absolutely, well said Stewart.

[Mon the fish]

Far easier to find a picture of the worst idea of a mini I could find than draw it even if this has never crossed a BMW design desk.:p

I wouldn't be so sure about that, they're running out of niches to exploit!

[Alex from NM]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mini/mini/63889/new-mini-spy-pictures/page/3/0#main-content-area

Doesn't look as bad as some of the earlier shots, but either the driver is tiny or its massive

[Stewart]

http://static.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery/public/mini-cooper-2.jpg
http://static.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery/public/mini-cooper-1.jpg
http://static.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery/public/mini-cooper-3.jpg
http://static.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery/public/mini-cooper-5.jpg
http://static.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery/public/mini-cooper-6.jpg
Even better if they remember to shut the fuel Cap! :smilewinkgrin:

Nice to see actual real lights on these Mules now and the more of the car exposed. Is it just me or is the arches less pronounced? Don’t get me wrong they are a pain to keep looking nice but I like the plastic trim.

[zimbo]

Well so far I've noticed that:

1- the mirrors are still pretty massive as in earlier shots of the car and it turns out that apparently the mirrors have the indicators in them instead of on the A-Panels due to new EU legislations (hence the tape on the mirrors in these new pics).

2- Those rear light clusters look absolutely massive and NOT nice at all!!

3- There is a distinct droop of the roof towards the rear of the car aka Paceman style :blink:

4- The exhaust exits on the left hand side now on at least the non-S version anyway (as Ali has already mentioned)

5- 5 stud/bolt wheels so again as Ali said just mentioned any alloys you have currently will not fit the F56. (which sucks):frown:

6- The fuel/gas cap has moved to the otherside(right hand side) of the car too.

Still not liking this much :frown:

[Stewart]

3- There is a distinct droop of the roof towards the rear of the car aka Paceman
Good spot I dont know if I like that or not, that Fiat ABARTH Goodie bag I got with the Tshirt may come in Handy :smilewinkgrin:


As for the five door this was spotted many moons ago
http://s3.motoringfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/20121101-084425.jpg

[KenL]

A dealer told me the arches were slimmer on the new car.

[Stewart]

A dealer told me the arches were slimmer on the new car.

It’s a shame I think they add a bit of Beef to the car.

Begs the question will they hold back on the sports pack to make the car look softer even further.

[d.oxley72]

Just hope they don't turn it into another anonymous blob on wheels. There's enough of them of them on the roads already.

[KenL]

Just hope they don't turn it into another anonymous blob on wheels. There's enough of them of them on the roads already.

I would say car design is more more interesting than it was 10 years ago.

Some much more indvidual looking models from the likes of Citroen for example.

[Stewart]

I would say car design is more more interesting than it was 10 years ago.
Some much more indvidual looking models from the likes of Citroen for example.

I agree there was a time when everything could have been classed as Euro Boxes that looks very much the same. Its as if someone reminded the designers and companies that its ok to have a bit of flair and be different. Mind you it did not help that VW bought everyone from Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT and Skoda. When I grew up I admit the cars were ****e but unrestrained by safety standards and EU policy they were individual good or bad. I hate this kind of thing you still see today!


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Peugeot_107_and_Citro%C3%ABn_C1.jpg
http://photos.evo.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_578/car_photo_289317_7.jpg

Back to MINi found this.

It’s all theoretical of course but when asked about BMW’s new 1.5L three cylinder architecture the head of BMW M was unusually candid about the possibilities. According to an interview Dr. Friedrich Nitschke gave to Car and Driver the new engine is capable of more than we initially thought. Quite a bit more.

Here’s the full quote:

The three-cylinder is an attractive engine. It is possible to reach around 185 to 200 horsepower per liter in a forced-induction three-cylinder and we have 1.5 liters of displacement. Such an engine, which, by the way, sounds very similar to a six-cylinder engine, would have over 310 horsepower. And we are not even at the limit there. Generally speaking, I could imagine such an engine.

What this means for MINI and even JCW is very unclear. We’re not even if this level of tune will ever see an official light of day. But to know its possible is interesting indeed.

[ELFMAN]

STOP PRESS!!!
Secret footage from Hams Hall MINI Engine works - assembly and test of new small capacity JCW Engine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3KdpzL3Hkk&list=PLp74U76QtzH6h4csGRWHOHIsfAd_9q5pQ

[Mon the fish]

You can get 300bhp from the current JCW engine quite easily

[ELFMAN]

Ewan thats like the Guy who built more or less a perfect scale downed model of a Ferrari and it even sounded the Dogs nuts when he pressed the wee pedal

Yes, seen this Stewart - as Spock would say - "Fascinating!" The guy's a genius, but I think you'd have to be ever so slightly bonkers to be able to dedicate yourself to a project like that.

[Stewart]

We don’t know what the standard F56 looks like but Autoexpress feel the need to put up what they think the next GP will look like! :argh::smilewinkgrin:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/OkevsterO/945295_815328425221367_1988099475_n_zps67c6e75e.jp g

[Alex from NM]

Take the multitude of pointless stickers off and that would look quite good :thumbs up:

[ELFMAN]

AutoExpress? Wasn't this the article which appeared a month or so back in the News' section evo magazine? Check out the bottom left hand corner of the page - evo website. Looks fine, but IMO a tad pointless to show a computer-rendering of the 'Run-Out' model* of a range which hasn't even been released yet...

*ie final, 'cos MINI stated in the article that the GP will always be the 'swansong' for a particular series of the Hatch, as has been the case with the R53 and R56

[Stewart]

Reading further I think someone has branded it Autoexpress without knowing it was in Evo a few months back. looks like Evo mag going by the pictures :idunno: Its a stupid thing to even attempt in my book. I cant say a buy Car Mag's so dont know if this is just the norm.

[KenL]

I wish manufacturers would do more to stop magazines just making things up!

[ELFMAN]

It's like everything these days Ken, with the 24/7 cyber world there's a constant need to have 'new stuff' to feed the machine, so we get 'rolling' news coverage with endless talking heads repeating the same drivel every half hour and a barrage of advertising to make you dissatisfied with what you bought just last month. And now we have an artist's impression of the end of something we've yet to start... Mad.

Whatever happened to the 'Good Old Days'? You know, World Wars, Rickets and no Central Heating? :smilewinkgrin:

[Stewart]

Everyone has always told me they are the Dog’s bollocks. To be fair the standard brakes do there job. Only ever had to use them in anger once due to myself following a Girl in a Fiat 500 on the very road we were on last weekend just after the Green Welly on a wet A82.

An old Passat had broke down on a blind corner and as the two cars doing around 50-60 came round we faced a Morrisons Truck over taking up a hill slowly the VW with the hazards on over double white lines. Trust me the Coop pulled up inches away from her after the girl had went full on the brakes. Actually impressed the way the whole car came to a controlled stop perfectly.

Glad your Works would be staying Ali as its build quality was not like the first one you got, its a keeper!

[Burple]

Whatever happened to the 'Good Old Days'? You know, World Wars, Rickets and no Central Heating? :smilewinkgrin:

There there..... calm yourself down.. put the kettle on ;):D

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzrrsQPYOED8n6vK5rU0BRlk7LXhITa r9Bz0yNRGrJqh79KJfzDg

[ELFMAN]

AHHHH, THAT'S BETTER...
Thanks other E! :thumbs up:
4246 4247 4248 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......

[zimbo]

Elfman you do realise that those slippers are not a matching pair... :hand: :smilewinkgrin:

[Stewart]

I’m more worried about the fact how much I find that Cup of Tea and Bourbon so attractive these days. :smilewinkgrin:

[d.oxley72]

I’m more worried about the fact how much I find that Cup of Tea and Bourbon so attractive these days. :smilewinkgrin:

You can't beat a nice cup of tea (preferably Yorkshire or Tetley) and a Bourbon.

Ps. Already got the tartan rug.

[Burple]

Elfman you do realise that those slippers are not a matching pair... :hand: :smilewinkgrin:

It's only a small step to "One Big Slipper"... ;)



:oops::off topic::lol:
Couldn't find a pic of the ones that Billy Connolly used to talk about ;) but I *did* stumble across these..
Kind of want!

http://tiwibzone.tiwib.netdna-cdn.com/images/tank-slippers.jpg

[ELFMAN]

Couldn't find a pic of the ones that Billy Connolly used to talk about ;) but I *did* stumble across these... Kind of want!

http://tiwibzone.tiwib.netdna-cdn.com/images/tank-slippers.jpg

:off topic:
Ach, die Panzerkampfwagenhausschuhe - AUSGEZEICHNET! :thumbs up:
The perfect footwear for your "Lebensraum"...

[Mon the fish]

I need a pair of them, where can I get them?????

[ELFMAN]

I need a pair of them, where can I get them?????

:idunno: From the Panzerkampfwagenhausschuheladen*... obviously... Dohhhhhh :thud:

*the Tank Slipper Shop :idea: (I always thought a 'Tank Slipper' was the result of over-estimating your cornering skills) :smilewinkgrin:

This thread has veered wonderfully :off topic: :thumbs up: Who wants to talk about the relative merits of the F56 when we have access to Novelty Footwear?

[d.oxley72]

Sadly these are no longer available, unless you hunt for them on eBay.
http://new.minimania.com/part/NMA7662/MINI-PLUSH-SLIPPERS-SMALL---OR-STUFFED-MINIS-FOR-THE-KIDS

- - - Updated - - -


They ARE in MY world :thumbs up:

- - - Updated - - -



Never! Never!! NEVER!!! :ragin:

Not even this kind of Volvo?

http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/05/rat-finks-zombie-nightmarethe-volvo-hemizon/

[Stewart]

Drove my fathers big Volvo’s for years both the 740 and 940 Turbo. Boxy but Good. Changed days. Dad’s first Volvo had a rectangle long Speedo, used to sit in wonderment that the seat knew I was sitting on it :) Aaaaaaa God times.

[Stewart]

Some new pics of probably the same car but what the hell if we are posting slippers a few car shots can't be bad thing.:smilewinkgrin: Again points for spotting things!:thumbs up:

Interesting but it looks like we have lost our front round indicators going by the clear tape??????


http://s4.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x631xNew_MINI_Spyshots_01-950x631.jpg.pagespeed.ic.sJqnUJJrFN.jpg

http://s7.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x684xNew_MINI_Spyshots_02-950x684.jpg.pagespeed.ic.WTJmKtDY_L.jpg

http://s5.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x595xNew_MINI_Spyshots_03-950x595.jpg.pagespeed.ic.e-1brc-iyb.jpg

http://s5.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x560xNew_MINI_Spyshots_04-950x560.jpg.pagespeed.ic.iVMCCFr8rw.jpg

http://s4.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x473xNew_MINI_Spyshots_06-950x473.jpg.pagespeed.ic.GawQGENlx_.jpg

http://s7.paultan.org/image/2013/05/New_MINI_Spyshots_07.jpg

http://s4.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x585xNew_MINI_Spyshots_08-950x585.jpg.pagespeed.ic.pLr3jZi4S9.jpg

http://s7.paultan.org/image/2013/05/New_MINI_Spyshots_09.jpg

http://s4.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x676xNew_MINI_Spyshots_10-950x676.jpg.pagespeed.ic._uhtdfyU8P.jpg

http://s5.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x609xNew_MINI_Spyshots_11-950x609.jpg.pagespeed.ic.gjhIiwVFbP.jpg

http://s7.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x633xNew_MINI_Spyshots_12-950x633.jpg.pagespeed.ic.7J75wqzu9a.jpg

http://s5.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x633xNew_MINI_Spyshots_13-950x633.jpg.pagespeed.ic.OzkY8i5Zin.jpg

http://s5.paultan.org/image/2013/05/950x633xNew_MINI_Spyshots_14-950x633.jpg.pagespeed.ic.2Js8x8Vau9.jpg

[Neil - TXJ]

Grille looks like the rocketmans.

[Stewart]

http://cars-database.com/data_images/gallery/04/mini-rocketman/mini-rocketman-01.jpg


As long as the front fogs are like this!

[zimbo]

:tumbleweed: yeah keep dreaming Stewart :lol:

[Mon the fish]

Looks more and more like a 4x4. With each generation, normal sized wheels look lost in the arches - 16's are perfect for ride comfort and handling, but now sadly look too small

[Stewart]

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq72/sav112g/F56_zps737c83a7.jpg

Looks like we still have the low rear brake light going by the plastic, the filler cap is still a crap fit, why when every other car manufacturer can manage a filler cap on curved bit of body:ragin:. And that looks like a deformation where the side indicators should be. EU rules may say you have to have them in the mirrors but what’s to say you cant keep the older versions too.

This uses the same drive train as BMW uses for All4 or could use. Would you want a All4 Cooper hatch when you are striding for efficiency, less weight etc.

- - - Updated - - -


:tumbleweed: yeah keep dreaming Stewart :lol:

oops missed a word!

That should be " As long as the front fogs are not like this!"

[zimbo]

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq72/sav112g/F56_zps737c83a7.jpg

Looks like we still have the low rear brake light going by the plastic, the filler cap is still a crap fit, why when every other car manufacturer can manage a filler cap on curved bit of body:ragin:. And that looks like a deformation where the side indicators should be. EU rules may say you have to have them in the mirrors but what’s to say you cant keep the older versions too.

This uses the same drive train as BMW uses for All4 or could use. Would you want a All4 Cooper hatch when you are striding for efficiency, less weight etc.



The cooper/One filler cap have always kinda quietly bugged me too. The lower light in the bumper is the REAR FOG light and NOT the third brake light, because thats in the top of the rear window as has been for a long time now and always will be, due to safety regulations etc (needs to be a certain hight from the ground to be seen etc etc etc....) :yes nod:



oops missed a word!

That should be " As long as the front fogs are not like this!"

:hand: ok well I'll let you off then Stewart :lol:

[Stewart]

So it is:blush::smilewinkgrin: So Fog and rear reversing lights look in the same place.

With regards to the filler Cap you can go to the cheapest Toyota etc and its lovely and flush and curved with the body then you get the mini one thats double the cost at least new and it is just a bad fit. I actually thought it was defect on my Car till I went in and seen most of the cars new in the Dealer were just the same.

[ELFMAN]

Is it an optical illusion, or does the F56 look 'squarer', especially at the front...? :idunno:
I know what Mon means Re. Wheel size. My R53 looked (IMHO) perfect with the 16" Minilites, but they'd look just a tad small on the R56.

[Stewart]

Hopefully they will show more of the MK3 before the Frankfurt Motor Show.

V3 is already on the plate :smilewinkgrin:

[Stewart]

There seemed to be a round up today on the BMW sites so apologies if its covering old ground and a bit of a wall of Text! Here is what they had to say!




In 2014 MINI will usher in an entirely new MINI platform and family of engines with the F56. This also means a serious upgrade in technology and options. Taking advantage of the latest BMW advancements in tech, for the first time MINI will be able to offer identical technology to what most smaller BMW current have.

Thanks to various internal sources we’ve compiled a list of the most notable new options on the F56. Fro new colors to cameras surrounding the car, the F56 will offer more than we could have imagine even just five years ago.

Colors

MINI’s not going to change all of its color options (Chili Red, Midnight Black and Pepper White are likely to stay) but there will be some surprises. Well they would have been surprises if you didn’t see them here on MF first.

VOLCANIC ORANGE (B70)
ICED CHOCOLATE METALLIC (B49)

We may see more new colors but these are the first we’ve uncovered.
Lighting

522 XENON LIGHT
5A4 LED HEADLIGHTS WITH CORNERING LIGHT

Somewhat surprisingly Xenon’s won’t be the ultimate lighting available for the next MINI. The F56 will also include optional LED headlights. Keep in mind that this doesn’t refer to the LED daytime running lights that will be integrated in the rings around the headlights but the headlights themselves. This will mark the first time LED lights have been available on a small car from any manufacturer.

Because its temperature is very similar to that of daylight, LED light has a very bright beam, enabling traffic signs, for example, to be seen more clearly. Cornering lights turn on automatically when bends are taken slowly. All bends taken faster than approx. 60 km/h are the responsibility of Adaptive Headlights, which adapt smoothly to steering wheel movements and the speed to optimally light up the road ahead.

parking_assistant_04_en

parking_assistant_03_en
Parking

5DP PARK ASSISTANT
5DU PARK ASSISTANCE PACKAGE
508 PARK DISTANCE CONTROL (PDC)
3AG BACKUP CAMERA

Yes, the next generation MINI can park itself. Or at least that’s what BMW’s can do with this option. The Park Assistant found in BMWs provides support when searching for parking spaces and helps drivers manoeuvre safely and conveniently into parking spaces parallel to the direction of travel.

At a speed of up to 35 km/h, ultrasonic sensors in the side of the front wheel arch search for a suitable parking space (vehicle length plus approx. 1.5 metres), allowing you to keep concentrating on the traffic. Blue arrows in the Control Display indicate if a parking space is available either on the left or the right side of the road.

The assistant takes care of the steering so that all you have to do is select the correct gear and control the accelerator and the brake. Instructions are displayed on the free-standing Control Display together with the Park Distance Control and the image from the Rear View camera with Top View.
Active Cruise

544 CRUISE CONTROL WITH BRAKING FUNCTION

Radar sensors at the front of the vehicle permanently scan the road ahead. As your MINI approaches a slower vehicle, Active Cruise Control automatically reduces power output from the engine and gently applies the brakes, holding your MINI at a pre-defined distance to the vehicle ahead.

This distance is set as a number of seconds, not of metres, so that a safe reaction time is always available, relative to the current speed. When the lane ahead becomes clear, Active Cruise Control automatically increases your vehicle’s speed to your preferred cruising speed. Up to four different cruising speeds can be pre-programmed. A touch on the accelerator or brake pedal deactivates the system.

On curves, Active Cruise Control uses data from the Dynamic Stability Control and navigation systems to calculate whether the cruise speed needs to be adjusted, and to determine whether vehicles in the radar’s field are in the same or a neighboring lane.

The high-performance radar sensor is heated in cold weather, ensuring year-round operation. Active Cruise Control is functional at speeds above 30 km/h and below 180 km/h. Depending on the model, this function is controlled by a paddle on the steering wheel or a button on the multifunction steering wheel.

950x633xNew_MINI_Spyshots_13-950x633.jpg.pagespeed.ic.OzkY8i5Zin
Heads-up Display

6AD MINI HEAD UP DISPLAY

An F56 with Head-Up Display will be easily recognised by a small square depression on the dashboard. This contains a projector and a system of mirrors that beams an easy-to-read, high-contrast image onto a translucent film on the windscreen, directly in the driver’s line of sight.

The image is projected in such a way that it appears to be about two metres away, above the tip of the bonnet, making it particularly comfortable to read. Head-Up Display halves the time it takes for eyes to shift focus from road to the instruments and back. The system’s height can be adjusted for optimal viewing.

Tele-Services

6AE TELESERVICES
6AC INTELLIGENT EMERGENCY CALLING

With the F56 MINI will be introducing TeleServices which utilize wireless communication between your MINI and your MINI Service Centre. This guarantees a personalized and thus more beneficial service as well as a quick reaction in the event of a problem.

When a service is due, MINI TeleServices will automatically sends all relevant data from the Condition Based Service system (CBS) to your Service Centre. They will then call you to arrange a service and discuss any extra work that may be required.

MINI TeleServices lets you to get in touch with the BMW Breakdown Service when a problem arises. Thanks to the data transfer our specialists can make a remote diagnosis and are often able to solve the problem from afar.
MINI Connected & Software

6NM MINICONNECTED
6NT MINI CONNECTED XL
4VA MINI DRIVING EXPERIENCE PACK
4V9 MINI EXCITEMENT PAKAGE

We’re not entirely sure what the XL refers to but we can certainly take a guess. There will be at least two different screens used in the new MINI. We suspect that 6NT simply refers to the version of MINI Connected compatible with the larger screen.

The MINI Excitement and Driving Experience package are a bit of a mystery to us, but we do know that MINI is planning on offering more dedicated software as options. We suspect these both offer extended functionality of some kind for that gorgeous new screen.
Performance

223 ELECTRONIC DAMPER CONTROL (EDC)

For years performance cars have enjoyed the benefits of electronic damper control. EDC will allow a driver to manually adjust the MINIs’ dampening to suit the driving conditions — meaning you enjoy outstanding comfort along with terrific cornering and on-road safety. EDC reduces variations in wheel load, ensures tyres have excellent traction and counteracts bodyshell movement regardless of the weight the MINI may be carrying or the state of the road’s surface.

Sensors constantly monitor all factors influencing the vehicle’s behavior in order to precisely adjust the damper control. In a fraction of a second, the signals are analysed by the EDC microprocessor and orders are sent to the actuators on the shock absorbers, which, with the help of magnetic valves, are variably adjusted to provide optimal suspension. Thanks to Electronic Damper Control, the tendency for the nose to dip when braking is practically eliminated. The influence of potholes and unevenness on the road surface is reduced to minimum.

In addition to increased driving comfort and improved roll characteristics on the tyres, EDC also contributes to vehicle stability and safety. By reducing the nose’s tendency to dip when braking and improving the tyre traction, EDC shortens the braking distance when braking heavily. The damper adjustment means that even when braking with ABS, the vehicle chassis remains upright on the road and all four wheels have the largest possible contact with the road surface.

The Driving Experience Control switch lets the driver choose between various programs (like ECO PRO, COMFORT, NORMAL, SPORT or SPORT+) and adjust the suspension to suit their individual needs.

F56 Release Schedule

The F56 hatch will debut this fall at the Frankfurt Motor Show in late September. However it’s internet debut right here on MF will take place in late summer/early fall with early press drives happening not long after. And yes we will be there. FIrst production should start in September with the first cars hitting EU and UK dealerships this November and December. The US will see an official market launch in March 2014.

[KenL]

A lot of technical improvements.

Looks like the options list will be even longer than it is now.

I can't get my head round a MINI needing the option of self-parking though!

[zimbo]

A lot of technical improvements.

Looks like the options list will be even longer than it is now.

I can't get my head round a MINI needing the option of self-parking though!

Gotta agree with all of what ken just said, if you need assistance parking then you shouldn't be driving in the first place!! :hand:

The only thing I like the sounds of is the HUD :thumbs up:

[Alex from NM]

Well it looked like a 4x4 and now it's getting the adaptive suspension of one :o. Bizarre decision. Why would it need anything other than a sport or normal setting?

[N16SHP]

Also agree with Ken. I like the sound of a lot of that, but I'm sure Mini finance are also rubbing their hands with excitement at the sound of all those extras too.

[Stewart]

Heated mirror are standard now are they not on the R56? Always thought it shocking my car does not have them!!!!!!!!! We will see how generous the standard spec is but knowing BMW it will be shockingly poor. It will drive like a MINI no doubt why they had to play with the interior so much I still cant figure. Although they are wanting to point out this is a new car!!!!!

[KenL]

The heated mirrors and jets are useless in the MINI anyway.

[N16SHP]

The heated mirrors and jets are useless in the MINI anyway.

Agreed. We were driving back from Manchester and it was -6 and they stopped working and the "heated washers" for the Xenon lights froze when they popped out to spray!

[ELFMAN]

Wonder how much the Electronic Damper Control will be...?

[Mon the fish]

Agreed. We were driving back from Manchester and it was -6 and they stopped working and the "heated washers" for the Xenon lights froze when they popped out to spray!

Work fine on the R53 :p

This just all seems like too much tech to me - this car isn't an £80k Porsche

[ELFMAN]

this car isn't an £80k Porsche

Aye, but the way things are going, with all the 'toy' boxes ticked, it'll probably be an £80K MINI :smilewinkgrin:

[Stewart]

MINI could surprise us as they have been heavily criticised for the lack of basic equipment on base models. Competition for this sector with the A1 and Fiat etc has increased. Nothing against the models, I’d have a Roadster in a shot (ok with a folding metal roof) if they did it but both must be rated as failures sales wise. As I’ve said many a times I can pass thirty to forty MINI’s easy within a fifteen minute drive on the Southside and I’d actually say now Countryman are even if not more now than the Hatch. I’ve seen three Coupes on the road and one was Leanne’s and thanks to Ali’s Dads Ive seen two Roadsters on the actual road. Selling like Hotcakes they certainly have not.

But realistically its BMW and bamboozling with science and all that is great about the new car while shafting everyone’s wallet seems to be model they follow. :smilewinkgrin:

[N16SHP]

Work fine on the R53 :p

This just all seems like too much tech to me - this car isn't an £80k Porsche

Given a decently spec'd S or JCW these days will be upwards or £25k, I'm thinking I'd rather spend that on an S3 or Cayman. (Yes I know these are two totally different cars, just sayin :idunno:)

[Mon the fish]

Agree with the pricing - Mini's have never been cheap, and all this tech will come at a cost no doubt. Why anyone spends >£25k on a Mini is lost on me

[Stewart]

Must emit I found searching for that nearly new MINI last time very enjoyable on the Cherished site, getting a Car with toys for the right price is a bonus. My Car was only six months old and 1K on the clock and was just over three thousand cheaper from new. I plan to do the same for my next MINI be it R or F. The only thing I now would change is that I’d travel further for the right car.

Nothing wrong with buying split new if you can afford it mind and let’s face it everyone would like a brand new car over second hand if given the choice.

We will see how these new cars are priced but I expect a large advertising Campaign for MINI’s new Baby.

[Neil - TXJ]

Still keen to know which models will be available at launch - particularly the SD.

[Stewart]

MINI to produce the next generation hatch in China!!!

A weee look at an "S"
http://www.ausmotive.com/pics/2013/MINI-F56-Cooper-S-spied-May2013.jpg

[zimbo]

MINI to produce the next generation hatch in China!!!



Thats just for the Asian market only though Stewart (as far as I'm aware)

[Stewart]

Yeah I just took it as read as peep on here would know Oxford was not getting canned.:flag: I don’t know, a MINI not form oxford does not feel right but it makes sense. Could be good news if plant Oxford can concentrate on Europe and not feel the added pressure of firing out cars as quick as they can to go to the far East.

Cooper V Cooper S
http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/MC_vs_MCS1-640x437.jpg

A new addition to the design language is the “S” logo used as a badge on the left side of the upper grille.

http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/MCS3.jpg
Lighting options!

http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/MC_vs_MCS2-640x542.jpg

[N16SHP]

Much more aggressive looking rear end on the S.

[Alex from NM]

I've seen that front end overhang before somewhere

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuYhelomNpA