more info on the f56

[Eddie_JCW]

Has anyone noticed that Auto Express are expecting the JCW to have around 217bhp which would be a massive disappointment especially if it gets All4 :( I would've expected at least 240bhp

I love the look of the new JCW and I love all the new tech. Just hope it gets the power it deserves.

[Stewart]

No All 4 for the hatch, rumour is all4 could be seen in the new F54 clubman.


https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/875x656q90/545/fzwy.jpg

[ELFMAN]

Has anyone noticed that Auto Express are expecting the JCW to have around 217bhp which would be a massive disappointment especially if it gets All4 :( I would've expected at least 240bhp. I love the look of the new JCW and I love all the new tech. Just hope it gets the power it deserves.

As mentioned previously, MINI 'official' power figures can be on the low side, and it's generally accepted that the current JCW is putting out a bit more than quoted. Anyway, outright power is only part of the equation. No doubt there will be custom remaps available from the usual tuners a few months after the car is released if folks feel the need. I'd rather have a car with 200bhp which handled, rode and stopped well than a 250bhp one which was all engine and no talent!

[Mon the fish]

Any more than 230bhp on a properly sorted Mini just isn't needed IMO. Far better to have the N/A style responsive character rather than outright figures at the expense of revability

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[zimbo]

Think this is how the new JCW should have kind of looked (after my quick photoshop) instead of having that megafugly front thing they call a bumper

4854

[EcosseGP]

That's not a bad finish there Zimbo .. I'm liking that ! Get rid of the fog lights and put in brake ducts ;)

[Stewart]

Walk around of the Works.

http://youtu.be/G76fmwUGaEY

Funny this came up on the Mini USA Pod Cast I was listening to and they hinted there was a change in engine management in the 2lt unit to make it have more instant grunt low down while maintaining the power kept on coming at the top end. It got technical for about a minute. They also suggested MINI had spent more time developing other parts of the GP2 to make it special than concentrate on the outgoing engine while these new engines were getting all the attention.

[Crombers]

Think this is how the new JCW should have kind of looked (after my quick photoshop) instead of having that megafugly front thing they call a bumper

4854

Dear BMW, whadyathink ............ better eh!!!!!!!!!

Well done Z :thumbs up:

[Eddie_JCW]

I totally agree with what's been said :thumbs up:

But this is BMW and they don't normally do things by half measures especially not when it comes to engines.
The R56 JCW was in a league of it's own up until recently, now cheaper small hot hatches have improved so much will the F56 be able to keep above the rest for long enough?

I'm a fan of torque over power but will the 2.0 produce enough more torque to give us a decent gain without adding more power? I'm excited to hear the official details on the JCW :)

[Stewart]

New MINI John Cooper Works Begins Arctic Tests

http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-new-mini-john-cooper-works-begins-arctic-tests-medium_4.jpg?1389726200
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-new-mini-john-cooper-works-begins-arctic-tests-medium_13.jpg?1389726200
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-new-mini-john-cooper-works-begins-arctic-tests-medium_9.jpg?1389726200
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-new-mini-john-cooper-works-begins-arctic-tests-medium_1.jpg?1389726200
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-new-mini-john-cooper-works-begins-arctic-tests-medium_10.jpg?1389726200
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-new-mini-john-cooper-works-begins-arctic-tests-medium_11.jpg?1389726200

[EcosseGP]

Funny how the fuel cap is swapped over for left and right hand drives ..

[Stewart]

I think the fuel Cap is only on the right-hand side regardless is it not?

http://ecom.mini.co.uk/ecomw/GB/cosyservlet?cosyUrl=COLOR%3DP0B69%26SUBJECT%3DVEHI CLE%26MODEL%3DXM52%26tpovattr%3D%26tcutformat%3DST ANDARD%26NSC_COUNTRY%3DGB%26BACKGROUND%3DORIGINAL% 26QUALITY%3D85%26tpov%3DSIDE%26POOL%3DVCO%26FEATUR ES%3DS06ND%2CS0550%2CS0520%2CS04EP%2CS04C1%2CS0470 %2CS0383%2CS0329%2CS0314%2CS0302%2CS02GZ%26LANGUAG E%3Den%26IMAGE_TYPE%3DPRODUCT_IMAGE%26HEIGHT%3D320 %26BRAND_NAME%3DMINI%26WIDTH%3D560%26SUBTYPE%3DTEM PL

I know it’s the MINI way to keep certain bits to certain models but would it hurt them to give the Cooper owners the choice of the chrome (bloody looks a million times better) Fuel cap.

Really they should have had someone go away and look up what modifications people have done.

[EcosseGP]

I think the fuel Cap is only on the right-hand side regardless is it not?

http://ecom.mini.co.uk/ecomw/GB/cosyservlet?cosyUrl=COLOR%3DP0B69%26SUBJECT%3DVEHI CLE%26MODEL%3DXM52%26tpovattr%3D%26tcutformat%3DST ANDARD%26NSC_COUNTRY%3DGB%26BACKGROUND%3DORIGINAL% 26QUALITY%3D85%26tpov%3DSIDE%26POOL%3DVCO%26FEATUR ES%3DS06ND%2CS0550%2CS0520%2CS04EP%2CS04C1%2CS0470 %2CS0383%2CS0329%2CS0314%2CS0302%2CS02GZ%26LANGUAG E%3Den%26IMAGE_TYPE%3DPRODUCT_IMAGE%26HEIGHT%3D320 %26BRAND_NAME%3DMINI%26WIDTH%3D560%26SUBTYPE%3DTEM PL

I know it’s the MINI way to keep certain bits to certain models but would it hurt them to give the Cooper owners the choice of the chrome (bloody looks a million times better) Fuel cap.

Really they should have had someone go away and look up what modifications people have done.

Is that on the R56 because both my R53 have fuel caps on the left !

[KenL]

All F56 have right side fuel cap. R56 is on the left.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree Stewart, they should have done something about the rubbish fuel cap.

[Stewart]

Is that on the R56 because both my R53 have fuel caps on the left !

Nope F56 as shown in the configuration part on MINI 2014 HATCH. My R56 Coop is left.


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[Angib]

know it’s the MINI way to keep certain bits to certain models but would it hurt them to give the Cooper owners the choice of the chrome (bloody looks a million times better) Fuel cap.
Nope, that's part of the Mini trick - give people something that they are willing to pay extra for, but which costs Mini virtually nowt to add. Pure profit.

[Big Col]

FUGGLY DUCTING"! :laugh:

Awww goddammit I literally laughed out loud at this! I'm so ashamed. :blush:
:D

The front end looks better with the profile distortig tape hiding those ducts. Maybe trick is to add that as an option.

[ELFMAN]

Awww goddammit I literally laughed out loud at this! I'm so ashamed. :blush:

Glad I helped release your "Inner Idiot"! :smilewinkgrin:

[zimbo]

This is the first time I have ever seen a jcw without front fog lights!! (apart from my interpretation that is lol) may try give it another go (photoshop that is) and add brake duct scoops etc instead :thumbs up:

[Mon the fish]

GP1 didn't have front fogs, not sure on GP2. I know the new JCW will have them, but can't say I've ever used mine

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[Eddie_JCW]

Maybe adaptive headlights will be standard on the new JCW and they could have a fog light setting. Front fog lights are totally pointless unless you can only see 2ft past your bonnet, I've never thought "oh I'm glad I have front fog lights"

About 10 years ago going over the Eaglesham moors I wished I had front fogs as I could only see one white line in front of me so maybe 15ft max. I was doing 15 mph all the way using the cats eyes to navigate if I heard a thud I was still on the road, scary stuff. But that's once in probably 400,000 miles at least.

[Stewart]

The new multi-link suspension on the F56 completely decouples the spring from the strut. Seemingly this is be looked upon as a good thing. :scratch: If only I knew what the hell that was about :smilewinkgrin:

http://distilleryimage2.s3.amazonaws.com/563575267f1f11e38bae12329f48ddae_8.jpg

[Angib]

My guess is that it is a packaging advantage as the wheel well needs only the space for a small diameter damper and not a ruddy great spring, which goes under the boot floor. Making space for the spacesaver spare wheel that seems to be an option on all F56s?

But there may be a NVH (noise/vibration/harshness) advantage that is waay to clever for me to work out.

It's interesting how rear springs moved onto fake McPherson struts, presumably as they were easier to install on the car with the rest of the suspension, but now they've been separated again as they would have been twenty years ago.

[EcosseGP]

Interesting that they've done that .. as all they'll do is save space. I'm not too sure that's not a step backward (^^) but potentially springs could become dislodged having nothing other than upper and lower mounts to keep them in place especially when the cars jacked up or riding on lowered springs ..

[stoney]

Be interested to see how the coilover company's come up with for that set up !!

[Mon the fish]

If it was a performance thing Lotus, Ferrari etc would do this. They don't.

It'll be a space/cost thing

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[ELFMAN]

Mmmm, who knows? If it does the job of sorting the ride/handling conundrum which seems to have afflicted the MINI 'Sports' setup from the start, it'll be a Good Thing.

However, the cynic within tends to agree with Mon...

[KenL]

Why so negative?

The current chassis/suspension design is basically about 15 years old. I would hope the new design would be progress over the old.

[Stewart]

Exclusive: MINI’s Worldwide 2014 MINI F56 Launch Delayed

Today we received confirmation of that timeframe. According to sources MINI will be launching the F56 in Europe, the Uk and the US in “April”. Extrapolating a bit, we’d expect that’s early April for Europe and the UK and mid to late April for the US.

What about simply waiting for the 2015 model year? We’re told that that will start with July production this year potentially making the 2014 one of the more rare Hatchback models MINI has produced.

But there may be a reason to wait. As with most MINI and BMW model launches, there are some key options that come online a few months after initial production. In this case that was to be the JCW exterior package. With this delay we’d wager that we won’t see that as an option until summer at the earliest.

So it seems it will be a little bit longer before we see these in the dealers.


http://distilleryimage11.s3.amazonaws.com/3c00a4b87e3011e39b121244bd87b11b_8.jpg

[zimbo]

:scratch: so WTF is all that about, thats not a good omen is it :frown:

[Stewart]

Probably they have decided to do something different for the launch event or doing it globally at the same time is taking more work than they thought. Guy on another site said he passed a trailer full of F56 the other day on the M6. Someone was saying that it’s become the norm with MINI. The GP2 was pushed back along with the Paceman and even the F56 reveal was moved about too. :idunno:

[Craig]

I saw an F56 on the road on Sat down south - no plates on it and it still had all the grey plastic sheeting on it. Noticed it because of the front lights... boy wasnt hanging out in the outside lane !! ;)

[N16SHP]

I spoke to JC's when I was in handing over my S and they said that they won't have any cars until at least April so they are up on what's going on.

[Stewart]

Just reading Motoringfile.
www.motoringfile.com (http://www.motoringfile.com/2014/01/26/exclusive-minis-worldwide-2014-mini-f56-launch-delayed/#more-32647)

There is talk that BMW want to push the Active Tourer that happens in February and want to inform MINI customers that although the 3dr Hatch is first off the blocks the five door is not far behind. A preview is expected of the five door F56 soon. Someone also said his dealer is expected to get a demo car in March but customers cars will not be till April .



BMW Active Tourer
http://i.auto-bild.de/ir_img/1/1/3/7/2/9/3/BMW-2er-Active-Tourer-474x316-f15779a10a4ae6f7.jpg

[weefossy]

We waited 18 months for the works kit to come out for the clubbie when it was first lauched. We changed the car by the time it came out, so i wouldn't hold your breath.

[Stewart]

Whiteroof Radio talking to their guy in MINI USA said MINI expected to have the F56 JCW kit available this summer. If the JCW kit gives you the look of the S at the front for once I’d be happy not to have it. Although maybe that’s Mini’s plan have an unattractive S front as standard so everyone upgrades to the Works kit. :smilewinkgrin:

[Stewart]

I think it's the customers cars that have been put back. On another site a guy was saying his dealer was sure it would have a demo mid March.


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[zimbo]

Whiteroof Radio talking to their guy in MINI USA said MINI expected to have the F56 JCW kit available this summer. If the JCW kit gives you the look of the S at the front for once I’d be happy not to have it. Although maybe that’s Mini’s plan have an unattractive S front as standard so everyone upgrades to the Works kit. :smilewinkgrin:

:Whistle:...no that wouldn't work because the JCW kit looks even WORSE than the S kit :yes nod:, they're both fugly but the JCW is even worse with the smoochy lips looking thing sticking out even further out on that lower front bumper :frown:

[Stewart]

Preaching to the wrong guy:smilewinkgrin: I’m happy with the new F56 Cooper and I certainly would not buy one of the last R56 coopers now to just have a newer version with little to no change.
Best car to me to buy just now would be the JCW Clubbie as I think it just looks right and I don’t think the newer version will have the same character as the currant.


Some of the first official drives of the Cooper and S are just 48 hrs away. It will be interesting what the reviews are like :thumbs up:


MotoringFile is Driving the New F56 MINI – What Do you Want to Know?
In 48 hours we will be among the first people in the world (outside of MINI) to drive the F56 MINI Cooper and Cooper S. We will also have access to MINI executives, engineers and designers. So this all raises the question – what do you want to know? What do you want us to answer? What do you want us to uncover? What do you want us to take photos of? And what do you want impressions of?


The MINI Engine has more character apparently over this version, it pops on sport mode and you hear the blow off from the twin scroll turbo's :thumbs up:

http://youtu.be/ke33f4D7o_M

http://youtu.be/Sj5Q6P10hg0

[DarnShiv]

Just reading Motoringfile.
www.motoringfile.com (http://www.motoringfile.com/2014/01/26/exclusive-minis-worldwide-2014-mini-f56-launch-delayed/#more-32647)

There is talk that BMW want to push the Active Tourer that happens in February and want to inform MINI customers that although the 3dr Hatch is first off the blocks the five door is not far behind. A preview is expected of the five door F56 soon. Someone also said his dealer is expected to get a demo car in March but customers cars will not be till April .



BMW Active Tourer
http://i.auto-bild.de/ir_img/1/1/3/7/2/9/3/BMW-2er-Active-Tourer-474x316-f15779a10a4ae6f7.jpg

BMW have designed some cracking cars, but that is not one of them:sad:

[Stewart]

If you took off the badges and I could not see the style of grille I'd just think it was a Merc MPV.


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[Mon the fish]

Looks like the piece of junk that'll take you to the airport car park

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[Stewart]

Looks like the piece of junk that'll take you to the airport car park


Away and play with your Ferrari :smilewinkgrin:

[Mon the fish]

Away and play with your Ferrari :smilewinkgrin:

Bmw have designed some real classics like the Z4 etc. I just expect better from them.

And I'm still waiting for it to either dry up, or to stop salting the roads before I take it out. Could be a while...

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[Stewart]

It's not like BMW are not designing great cars, it's just a MPV and no matter what you do it's going to look like a van. My cousin in Dumblane has five kids and has one of these types. It's designed for a market that needs space over everything else.


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[Angib]

That 'Active Tourer' actually has a full Mini power unit (and maybe even suspension?) under its bonnet, complete with shock, horror front wheel drive.

[Mon the fish]

It's not like BMW are not designing great cars, it's just a MPV and no matter what you do it's going to look like a van. My cousin in Dumblane has five kids and has one of these types. It's designed for a market that needs space over everything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know, but it still saddens me the same way a Porsche Cayenne does.

Fully aware of the commercial reasons, but if they ever do an M-version of that, a part of me will die

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[ELFMAN]

Iif they ever do an M-version of that, a part of me will die

Hope it's not an important part Mon... :frown: :smilewinkgrin:

Is it just me (probably :yes nod:), or does the 3-Pot COOPER exhaust note sound slightly incongruous from a small hatch, and especially a MINI? :idunno:
I'm not saying it's bad and doubtless it'll be great on the road, but it sounds as if it should be coming from a different, bigger car. I prefer a more traditional sporty 4-pot soundtrack :stirpot:

More zing, less thrum! :thumbs up:

[badwolf340]

http://youtu.be/1Dpij60f6i0




http://youtu.be/o8MNxa3dNX8

[Stewart]

Seems a version of the three door hatch is still in testing along with its five door sibling.

Our spy photographers in Norther Sweden sent us these pictures, which capture both 3-door and 5-door version of the MINI cooper. An MPV is also being developed, though it hasn't been captred in these shots.
The turquoise blue (we think it's a new color) prototype is clearly the 5-door has the Cooper S 2-liter engine. It could even be an SD model, since a 2-liter diesel has yet to be announced by MINI and is crucial to sales in Europe.
The black-roofed 3-door car is even more puzzling, since the Cooper and Cooper D are already in production. Could this be the One hatch, or a 4All version? We just don't know yet.

Another mystery that will remain unanswered is why the test engineers "playing" with the 5-door appear to be two women in their 20s who both have the same white, fluffy hats.
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/spyshots-5-door-and-3-door-mini-hatchbacks-seen-together_1.jpg?1389984983
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-5-door-and-3-door-mini-hatchbacks-seen-together-medium_2.jpg?1389984983
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-5-door-and-3-door-mini-hatchbacks-seen-together-medium_4.jpg?1389984983
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-5-door-and-3-door-mini-hatchbacks-seen-together-medium_5.jpg?1389984983
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-5-door-and-3-door-mini-hatchbacks-seen-together-medium_6.jpg?1389984983
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/medium/spyshots-5-door-and-3-door-mini-hatchbacks-seen-together-medium_8.jpg?1389984983

[zimbo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXe-4kbrAXA :thumbs up:

[RobSco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXe-4kbrAXA :thumbs up:

Good Video Find... :thumbs up: ...Amazing to watch and intrigued with the robots building it, will be good to see when it's launched... :yes nod:

[Stewart]

http://youtu.be/iAC3BNYCgX4

[Stewart]

Some people just have all the fun!

We’re in San Juan, Puerto Rico about to get behind the wheel of the new 2014 MINI Cooper and Cooper S. We will have a massive amount of data, photos, video and driving impressions later this evening. Also look for pricing and the launch of the new MINIUSA configurator later today.


http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/IMG_6240-640x454.jpg
http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/IMG_6239-640x431.jpg
http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/IMG_6246-640x465.jpg
http://distilleryimage9.ak.instagram.com/e8bd41da89dd11e3816912e42e507d51_8.jpg
http://distilleryimage4.ak.instagram.com/e7fed31889c311e39d5712cb74e4acdc_8.jpg
http://distilleryimage10.ak.instagram.com/e86c517289c311e38a690ed861720702_8.jpg
http://distilleryimage9.ak.instagram.com/ea3768a289c311e3a8f3123daafffadd_8.jpg
http://distilleryimage1.ak.instagram.com/b0c7908689ca11e39e7a0e8ec4b0e241_8.jpg
https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1622061_10152214546963394_1207531439_n.jpg

[Mon the fish]

That yellow S just looks worried to me

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[KenL]

http://www.motoringfile.com/2014/01/30/2014-mini-cooper-cooper-s-first-driving-impressions/#more-32985

Looking better all the time!

[Stewart]

Dam Gabe lied to me, said it would be out at Midnight!!!! Cheers Ken I'm away for a read.:thumbs up:


Variable suspension on the Coop reads as a nice thing to have.

[zimbo]

Really like that Volcanic Orange/black combo and strangely enough I found that pic of the green/white Cooper to be very attractive as well, I must be getting old if I'm finding green that nice :thud::clap:

[Mon the fish]

S does sound good, should be ace with a decat

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[zimbo]

http://www.motoringfile.com/2014/01/30/2014-mini-cooper-cooper-s-launch-gallery/#more-32820

Thanks to Motoringfile :thumbs up:

Heres what I have been waiting for the most, 2nd to actually driving the cars. :thumbs up:

So let the discussion begin on what you really think after seeing these, I'll put my thoughts in after I have gone through all of them and have the time to do so :smilewinkgrin:

[Jude]

I've read previous comments and have to admit I'm not technically minded. I'm not convinced about the shape of the front end but will withhold judgement until I've seen it in the flesh. Particularly interested in the five door versions as I went from Elmo to the Paceman and now driving Craig's countryman to have easy access to the back seas for Lucas and all my stuff. Going for practicality in my old age!

[Stewart]

A few more reviews!

Autocar.-mini-cooper-s-first-drive-review (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mini/cooper/first-drives/2014-mini-cooper-s-first-drive-review)
Autocar.-mini-cooper-first-drive-review (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mini/cooper/first-drives/2014-mini-cooper-first-drive-review)

Realy like that Deep Blue it has to be said.

[KenL]

Very positive reviews. ...

- - - Updated - - -

Another review http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mini/mini/85491/mini-cooper-2014-review

[Stewart]

Motoringfile released this, I cant get my head round the R56 figures! In mixed driving in six years in my R56 I’ve never found it less economical than crawling about at 20-30 MPH in the City. Even questioned why it has Auto in brackets but this is apparently on an official fact sheet from MINI.


The Cooper especially has substantially increased performance while increasing MPG. However not all is an upward trend. Somewhat surprisingly it would seem that whether it’s intentional or a by-product of the engine, the F56 Cooper manual actually loses 2 mpg in the city while gaining overall.

Cooper R50 auto: 23 City / 26 Combined / 31 Highway (auto)

Cooper R50 manual 24 City / 28 Combined / 33 Highway (manual)

Cooper R56 auto: 31 City / 28 Combined / 36 Highway (auto)

Cooper R56 manual: 32 City / 29 Combined / 37 Highway (auto)

Cooper F56 auto 30 City / 34 Combined / 41 Highway (auto)
Cooper F56 manual 30 City / 34 Combined / 40 Highway (manual)

[KenL]

I really want a F56 Cooper now... http://www.motoringfile.com/2014/01/31/motoringfile-review-the-2014-mini-cooper-cooper-s/#more-33060

[Stewart]

Why the US F56 MINI Weighs More than the Euro F56

One of the first questions I asked the MINI engineers present at the recent F56 MINI launch was about weight. The European F56 has lost weight compared with the R56, where the US-spec cars gained 60 and 90 lbs between the Cooper and Cooper S. While there’s much more standard equipment on the US cars as compared to the R56, they said that much of that new weight was from three US market changes to the F56:

Two additional airbags at knee-level
Massively reinforced B-pillars, designed for the NHTSA’s new rollover standards
A larger, more substantial A-pillar airbag system.


So the Euro F56 MINI is lighter than the departing R56 but the American F56 is not. That explains the conflicting information when listening and reading articles from the other side of the pond to that of the Uk.

[Mon the fish]

^^ plus once you put a couple of fat Americans in it...

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[KenL]

^^ plus once you put a couple of fat Americans in it...

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Not nice! I don't think the Scottish population is that far behind our American friends.

[Mon the fish]

That is also true to be fair

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[KenL]

The US fuel figures look poor for the F56 Cooper, no quoted big gains like there is in the UK figures.

You do need to multiply those figures by roughly 1.2 as the US gallon is only 3.8 litres not 4.55.

[Angib]

You do need to multiply those figures by roughly 1.2 as the US gallon is only 3.8 litres not 4.55.

Also the US fuel economy test was recently revised to make it fit better peoples' real world fuel economy - which resulted on some complaining that car makers had produced new models with worse economy than old ones!

This is unlike the EU test, which is still definitely in 'economy run' territory - for example, 56mph is the maximum speed and it mostly stays under 40mph. I think this is why some people get much lower mpg than the official test, particularly on a fairly high-drag car like the Countryman, if they drive on motorways.

[KenL]

That makes sense Angib.

[Stewart]

Not the best presented review of all time but she gives it a good go. :smilewinkgrin:



http://youtu.be/vNRyDsDN3hE

[Stewart]

http://youtu.be/K_KcfLVHx0w


In other News - Taking your classic MINI on holiday like a boss!!!!!


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1016572_802026683144829_1400477858_n.jpg

[Gismo]

Not the best presented review of all time but she gives it a good go. :smilewinkgrin:According to her the most important aspect is the styling, which i don't disagree with, but, to not even mention that hideous front end is a bit of an oversight :lol:

She does give a lot of good technical info

[Stewart]

Loving the look of the Cooper in the Deep Blue. To me the F56 Cooper is more modern and quality seems miles apart from the outgoing model. I'm interested in how the lower centre of gravity, less weight (euro version) and more power translates. As long as it feels like a Mini I'm happy. So glad I waited now as the Cooper looks bang on to me and while a world away from my R56 in every department still retains the look. After all we would get bored buying the exact same car over and over. And I abso-blooming-lutely cannot wait to get my hands on and find out.

[Stewart]

MINI One and One D joins third-generation F56 MINI line-up

The entry-level MINI One gets a brand new direct-injection 1.2-litre turbocharged three-cylinder petrol engine with fully variable valve control and variable camshaft control systems. It produces 75kW at 4,250-6,000rpm and 180Nm at 1,400-4,000rpm.
It will dash from 0-100km/h in 9.9 seconds with the standard manual transmission, or 10.2 seconds with the 6-speed automatic gearbox. Top speed is quoted as 195km/h while average fuel consumption is rated as low as 4.6L/100km, an improvement of 2.1L/100km.

The MINI One D also gets a new 3-cylinder diesel engine with MINI TwinPower Turbo Technology (turbocharged with variable turbine geometry, common rail direct injection). It displaces 1,496cc and makes 85kW at 4,000rpm and 270Nm at 1,750rpm. 0-100km/h is done in 9.2 seconds for both transmissions while top speed is 205km/h. It is rated at 3.4L/100km of diesel on the average combined cycle. The One and One D can be distinguished by their high-gloss black radiator grille ribs with black bumper strip, tailgate handle and wing mirrors compared to the MINI Cooper model shown here. They roll on smaller 15-inch steel wheels with wheel covers (alloys are optional).

TG Review. topgear.com/uk/car-news/new-mini (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/new-mini-first-drive-car-review-2014-01-30?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=sharenowbar&utm_campaign=Share+now)

[Stewart]

http://youtu.be/NEFNe_XNQmw

[ELFMAN]

Very positive reports... particularly Re. suspension and handling.

[KenL]

Funny how this reviewer says the suspension is different between the Cooper an S. He even says that with sport suspension they are different!

I had expected that they were the same basic design. I would like to hear confirmation of this from a UK dealer.

[ELFMAN]

Not the best presented review of all time but she gives it a good go. :smilewinkgrin:


http://youtu.be/vNRyDsDN3hE

Hey Stu, I'd like to see YOU doing the review in German! (or at least in Lederhosen) :smilewinkgrin:
I think she gets the message across and is quite lovely :blush: The message for me is "Move to Germany" :thumbs up:
I never like to hear a woman use the term "Tiny Overhang" in any accent though... :frown:

[goodingm]

Anyone got any info on when/if they will put the ZF9 auto box in the F56 mini

[Stewart]

Take it that is the new Nine Gear Auto BMW Box, I’m sure that last video review the one done by the guy said it would follow in a few years.

Guy covers it at 5 minutes 30 sec's if you roll it on.


http://youtu.be/NEFNe_XNQmw

[goodingm]

Thanks for that, excellent video. Also given he was impressed with eth heavier US car 6 speed auto it may be a good one in lighter Euro car. I have just under 18 months so will see how it goes.

[RobSco]

Another good video find Stewart... :thumbs up: ...Where do you get them all, really keeping us up to date with all the info... :yes nod:

[zimbo]

Well the F56 is most definately a 4 seater now with only room for two in the back, so thats a thumbs down for a start :frown:

[Stewart]

Well the F56 is most definately a 4 seater now with only room for two in the back, so thats a thumbs down for a start :frown:

Sorry lost me there, last I looked I had two seat belts for the back.:confused: I will take the extra space in the boot as I've got tired of asking people to sit with stuff on their knees like at the weekend just because one bag cant make it and the car has four in it. :ragin:

http://www.tcbmw.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/F56_MINI_Hatch-223-682x1024.jpg


Town & Country BMW
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3DMINI%2BF56%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DlXr%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D926%26tbs%3Dqdr:d&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=de&u=http://www.tcbmw.com/f56-mini-cooper-press-release-huge-gallery/&usg=ALkJrhgwFSmGUB-8sMvydUTCNNuSFoAyBw

[Mon the fish]

^^ That pic above - "driving excitement" - really? Think I'll judge when I'm excited, not the car...

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[ELFMAN]

I reckon if I was experiencing "Driving Excitement", the last place I'd be focussing on would be the Power & Torque 'app' on the dashboard... :hand:

- - - Updated - - -


Well the F56 is most definately a 4 seater now with only room for two in the back, so thats a thumbs down for a start :frown:

I don't ever remember ever cramming 5 into any of my MINIs... Surely for the 'Hatch Purists' among us the fact that it isn't a 'MINI people carrier' is a Good Thing? :idunno:
Agree with Stewart on the bigger boot thing tho - the current one is a (very small) pain in the @rse when going on hol/weekend shopping etc. But having said that, it's never ben a huge issue for me - it was always about the drive, rather than how many Morrisons bags I could get in the boot!

[Mon the fish]

The missus and I managed a whole weeks worth of stuff in the R53 boot without having anything on the back seats - pack better!

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[Stewart]

The boot I've just always accepted like the seat position loss when you let someone in the back and the seat does not go back to its right place as just life with the R56. Non heated mirrors was another shocker I see they have finally got round to give us as standard. ;)


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[goodingm]

Or eat less

[ELFMAN]

The missus and I managed a whole weeks worth of stuff in the R53 boot without having anything on the back seats - pack better!
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Aye, that's OK if you don't have anything else in the boot! :smilewinkgrin: Anyway, as I said, I've never bought a MINI to use as a shopping trolley :motoring:

[Mon the fish]

^^ the clue, after all, is in the name...

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[ELFMAN]

Or eat less

My Supermodel days are long gone I'm afraid :frown:

- - - Updated - - -


^^ the clue, after all, is in the name...
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I'm not complaining! "What size is the boot?" isn't a phrase I've EVER used when buying a car.

[Mon the fish]

I'm not complaining! "What size is the boot?" isn't a phrase I've EVER used when buying a car.

Funnily enough, that was the first question my gran asked when I ordered the R53. I hadn't even looked in the boot by that point

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[ELFMAN]

Funnily enough, that was the first question my gran asked when I ordered the R53. I hadn't even looked in the boot by that point

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YOU GO GRAN!!! :thumbs up: Grans are always practical.

[Mon the fish]

YOU GO GRAN!!! :thumbs up: Grans are always practical.

She likes the 550 so I can't complain :D

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[ELFMAN]

She likes the 550 so I can't complain :D

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Yes, practical, but not daft! :smilewinkgrin: :off topic: Right, enough shopping talk and Granny Banter - Back On Topic! :thumbs up:

[Stewart]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1782047_10151873305211640_1236301133_n.png

As you wish another review!

http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews/2014-MINI-Cooper (http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews/article/9176/-/2014-MINI-Cooper/First+drive+-+manual.html?campaignid=MINI_SocialMedia&advertiserid=Facebook_CGM&bannerid=car%20enthusiast)

[AndyP & Lenore]

YOU GO GRAN!!! :thumbs up: Grans are always practical.

AND they knit Shreddies. :thumbs up::thumbs up:

[ELFMAN]

AND they knit Shreddies. :thumbs up::thumbs up:

If they get really angry with a jumper, they Shred Knitties!

Anyway, in a vain attempt to get back on topic... This configurator attempt takes me back to my old fave Indi Blue/Black colour scheme, but bang up to date. Mmmmmm :Whistle:

4911

4912

Current circumstances mean I wouldn't use it enough to justify the £££ :frown: Though if I got a great offer for my R56... :idunno:No! Stop it!!! :ragin:

[MINI William]

If they get really angry with a jumper, they Shred Knitties!

Anyway, in a vain attempt to get back on topic... This configurator attempt takes me back to my old fave Indi Blue/Black colour scheme, but bang up to date. Mmmmmm :Whistle:

4911

4912

Current circumstances mean I wouldn't use it enough to justify the £££ :frown: Though if I got a great offer for my R56... :idunno:No! Stop it!!! :ragin:

Go on you know you want to :yes nod:

[Stewart]

I like this blue/black combo. If I got a F56 in white silver and black roof with my plate on it no one would know it was a blooming new car in my street. Only when the pepper white 13 plate was parked at its side on the drive some might twig.


Sent from my iPhone

[Mon the fish]

That blue one now reminds me of a pouting Jagger

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[ELFMAN]

Go on you know you want to :yes nod:

Don't get me wrong William, it's VERY tempting, but it's the thick end of £24K for something that my Dad would have difficulty getting in and out of, and it would probably spend a lot of time sitting into my garage. The MINI, not my Dad.

I could keep my fab '08 S (it's nearly a classic these days!), or pick up a pristine real classic car (say an MGB etc) for under 10K for use on high days and holidays (with peanuts for insurance and no Tax). So while I now reckon the F56 will be a great drive (particularly if they've finally sorted the suspension), have excellent new powertrains and improved build quality, it's difficult for me to make a case for buying one at the moment. In a perfect world I'd have a big garage with a few choice cars to suit all my needs...

- - - Updated - - -


That blue one now reminds me of a pouting Jagger

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4913
"Well Aaawwwlllroiiiight!"

[KenL]

It is pleasing to read this part of this thread now. Twas a depressing read when so many posts were being so negative.

I really like the new blue. A Cooper would suit me perfectly.

[zimbo]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1782047_10151873305211640_1236301133_n.png



Right I'm going to say it now as I think everyone else is also thinking the same thing anyway ...Stewart I am pretty damned sure this will be your next mini :lol: as we all know how much you like this colour and you also want your neighbours etc to notice the new car which they wouldn't do if it was a silverish colour like your R56, so my £££s on you getting your next Coop in this exact colour combo :yes nod:

[Stewart]

As a Cooper Driver Zimbo you’ll appreciate we pick our model for a very good reason. The Cooper suits my driving style down to a tee. I’d love a Works but it would be wasted on me as it would need to be driven right to be fully appreciated and more often. Plus after paying that amount of cash I’d need to sleep in it at night to be at ease. Truth be told MINI has a definite top tier value I’m happy to pay for the enjoyment I get. My Cooper has always put a smile on my face when I’ve taken it a run on my favourite roads. Perhaps a Works or an S would give me a bigger grin I dare say it would but it comes at too much of a price for me as I do so little mileage when I’m not on some of the best roads in the highlands to enjoy it. Still toying with taking my Coop a blast though Europe and being more relaxed as it’s an older car. I’ll not be the first swapping over at any rate till we get over that early build hump you seem to get with MINI but will be waiting on Cherished with interest later in the year. At heart I'm just a MINI fan and have been ever since I was a small kid and around them so I’d rather stay MINI.

Still to see the F56 in the flesh and drive it. Something could just not feel right then I’d have a problem. I always liked the Blue and Black roof combo it has to be said. If it drives better, goes quicker and goes further on a tank of fuel and less to Tax and the quality is improved inside and looks the part then it ticks the boxes. But yes the I be happy with the car above with a black roof.

Plus my plate would fit the new car very nicely. :smilewinkgrin:

I do apreicate the old saying you only live once, but its the paying for it that's the problem :smilewinkgrin:

[Crombers]

I like this blue/black combo. If I got a F56 in white silver and black roof with my plate on it no one would know it was a blooming new car in my street. Only when the pepper white 13 plate was parked at its side on the drive some might twig.


Sent from my iPhone

Oh I think the neighbours would notice 'Mick' no problem.
Whether the compliments would flow is another ............. 2p & all that :rolleyes:

[ELFMAN]

Oh I think the neighbours would notice 'Mick' no problem.
Whether the compliments would flow is another ............. 2p & all that :rolleyes:

Crombers, I'd bet your 2p (or 2d in old money) that while the neighbours would notice that Stewart had a 'new' MINI and it was a different colour, none of them would have the faintest idea whether it was an R53, R56 or an F56. To them it's 'just' a MINI, which I'm pretty sure they would quite like simply as a neat wee motor, as that's what most 'non-MINI' most folks seem to think about the MINI, regardless of Generation.

[Crombers]

Crombers, I'd bet your 2p (or 2d in old money) that while the neighbours would notice that Stewart had a 'new' MINI and it was a different colour, none of them would have the faintest idea whether it was an R53, R56 or an F56. To them it's 'just' a MINI, which I'm pretty sure they would quite like simply as a neat wee motor, as that's what most 'non-MINI' most folks seem to think about the MINI, regardless of Generation.

Dunno about that, the F56 front end has no hiding place. I will however grant you that the backside could be seen as the same car ........... by some :rolleyes:

Oh & cheers for the pic of your 'legendary' R53 03 Indy Blue 'S'. Look at it for a few moments & I'll swear you can still hear it's epic howl :bow:

[ELFMAN]

Dunno about that, the F56 front end has no hiding place. I will however grant you that the backside could be seen as the same car ........... by some :rolleyes:
Oh & cheers for the pic of your 'legendary' R53 03 Indy Blue 'S'. Look at it for a few moments & I'll swear you can still hear it's epic howl :bow:

:thumbs up: Cheers Crombers. I do miss it sometimes - it really did sound the business when you got on the gas! :shut up: :yes:

[RobSco]

See what Top Gear has to say in this review of the F56...


http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/new-mini-first-drive-car-review-2014-01-30?campaignid=MINI_SocialMedia&advertiserid=Facebook_CGM&bannerid=Top%20Gear

[Crombers]

"The face reminds me of JC driving the Ariel Atom" :lol:

[Gismo]

Hmm, Cooper S buyers take note:-

Well if the Cooper is so good, surely the Cooper S must be sensational

Hmmm. Well it certainly doesn't hang about. The 0-62mph for the S is 6.8 seconds. Its 189bhp four-cylinder engine is nice enough, but not outstanding among other 2.0 turbos. And, maybe because of the extra nose weight, it just doesn't feel so well-wired as you turn into a sharp corner. The suspension is firmer, but on the roads where I tried it, that just meant it was biffed about more - there was no dividend in agility. This despite the fact this car was specced with the optional adaptive dampers. There's slightly more understeer and less steering feel too. So I'm not sure the S is extra cash well spent, unless you need to do a lot of main-road overtaking.

[KenL]

Not totally surprising that the S is not as agile. The extra weight over the nose will not help. Also, was the S tested with different (larger and heavier) wheels? Did it have runflats and the Cooper maybe didn't?

[Stewart]

But then that’s one review over the others that clearly feel the S is a better car than its R56 predecessor. Guess its down to a test drive. Given all the S Cars were Automatic and the heavier version over the lighter than the R56 Euro version was not the best. Be really interesting what you guys think when you get to try a new S. Be a real shame if they have muted some of the S to give a bigger stage to the new upcoming works. They look as if they wanted to widen the gap more between models so far.

Top Gear 2008. R56s
http://images-2.drive.com.au/2013/06/14/4489918/mini_729-620x349.jpg
Then there's the ride. Tradition says that Minis bounce up and down as you drive along, so that is what happens in the new car. But tradition also says that the Queen can cut off people's heads and put them on spikes in her garden.
Handling? It's not that great actually. I had 15 hard laps round Donington and it wanted to plough straight on at every single corner. Short of using the handbrake, nothing was going to unglue the rear.

And now, things really start to get nasty. The fuel tank is basically a Zippo and to make matters worse, the Cooper S does about 17mpg. Frankly, this car doesn't have the range to get from pump eight on my local forecourt to pump nine.
Worse than this though is the reliability. You might imagine - it being a BMW and all - that it's perfect, but judging from my post bag, it isn't. Indeed, it seems to have picked up the baton dropped by the old Range Rover and become the most complained about car in the land.Mind you, I suspect the only reason the new Range Rover is not being complained about is because, so far as I can tell, none of them have been delivered yet.
Finally, we have the seats. They're quite comfortable but when you've let someone out of the back, just try to get them back into the right position again. I should like to meet the man who designed this feature, so that I could plunge a brace of cocktail sticks into his eyes.So, to sum up then, the Mini is badly packaged, badly made, badly thought out, bad at going round corners, bad at going in a straight line and bad at getting where it's going because, even if it doesn't break down, it'll run out of petrol.






New F56s


The Cooper S’ 1998cc twin-scroll turbocharged direct-injection petrol engine is 400cc bigger than the unit it replaces, making it the largest-capacity petrol engine ever to be offered in the Mini hatchback. It is, however, 7kg lighter than the old powerplant.

Power is up by 8bhp to 189bhp, but more apparent is the increase in torque, which rises by 15lb ft to 206lb ft at 1250rpm. Mini claims 0-62mph of 6.8sec and a top speed of 146mph, making the new Cooper S a respective 0.2sec and 4mph faster than its predecessor in six-speed automatic guise.

What is it like?
More than capable, with a sporting nature that's noticeable from the moment you fire the engine. Although it lacks the flexibility of the new three-cylinder unit used in the Cooper, the new four-cylinder engine offers improved low-end response, added mid-range and a more involving character than before.

The added performance and responsive nature of the contemporary underpinnings make the new Cooper S fun, fast and nimble. But, as with the standard Cooper, it is also more mature, and the steering, now featuring speed-sensitive assistance as standard, is lighter in feel but accurate and satisfyingly direct.

What’s really evident is the added security that Mini has built into the new car. You can spear headlong into a tightening corner and lift off sharply without being concerned about the rear end stepping out of line, which provides greater dependability on unfamiliar roads.

When it does begin to slide, it does so in a progressive manner, and there is greater clarity in the way the Cooper S behaves at the limit. However, although the ride is smoother than that of the outgoing Cooper S and has a slightly more forgiving feel, it remains quite firm and lacks the initial absorption in compression and subtlety in rebound that the new Cooper possesses.

It has been improved in every key area and is undeniably more fun to drive. Still, if you’re seeking simple everyday usability in a no less entertaining car, the born-again Cooper may well fit the bill at a more affordable price.

[ELFMAN]

The more bumf I read about the F56, the more I think the COOPER covers as many bases as most folk will need.

It's almost as quick as the 'old' S models, seems to handle and ride very well, and should be pretty economical to run. Almost harks back to the R50, in that it's not an out and out 'performance' model, but should be great fun on a good road - and after all, that's what it's supposed to be all about. It's so easy to get sidetracked by big power figures and 0-60 times, but these days I'd rather be having great fun on a fab road at 65mph than cr@pping myself hanging on for dear life at higher speeds... Old age is a terrible thing! :smilewinkgrin:

Maybe not old age - I just reckon I've run out of 'lives'! :phew:

[Stewart]

http://www.carenthusiast.com/long_term/longterm__mini__clubman_jcw__2009__115_530.jpg


Right on schedule MINI will be killing off the Clubman model at the end of the 2014 model year after a seven year model run. If the rumors we’re hearing our true, the last month of production will be June of this year giving prospective buyers just a few more months to plan out their purchase.

Sad to see this one go even when a new version is due soon after. To me it ticked all the boxes in that it was different and still looked the part. I honestly think if I’d got a works it would have been the Clubbie as it just looks the Dog’s. I have no doubt the newer version will be more mainstream and user friendly and as usual bigger to suit small families but a bit of its sole will be lost. I have to emit while I can appreciate a nice Countryman and Paceman I’m just not a fan even today. I’ve always liked the Clubman and thought it actually filled a nice niche in the MINI line up.

I see a launch event is up at a dealer, So maybe the the Cars will be in the showroom on or around the 15th March.
The most eagerly awaited new car of 2014 is almost here – the brilliant new MINI Hatch! We’d like to invite you to the launch events at Elms MINI Bedford, Cambridge and Stansted on Saturday March 15th. - See more at: http://blog.elmsdirect.com/the-new-mini-hatch-elms-gets-ready-to-party/#sthash.cDDqzqgF.dpuf

[Angib]

The more bumf I read about the F56, the more I think the COOPER covers as many bases as most folk will need.
I agree. My current SD is a step up in real world performance from the Cooper I had before, but it hasn't got much that the F56 Cooper hasn't. The extra economy is nice, but realistically it will cost me £1,000-2,000 extra depreciation over the time I'm likely to own the SD, so a Cooper that went about as quick from low engine revs (which the new turbo 3 sounds like it will) would make as much sense. Plus I love a three-cylinder thrum - so much nicer than that four-cylinder buzz.

[ELFMAN]

I love a three-cylinder thrum - so much nicer than that four-cylinder buzz.

"THRUM" Vs "BUZZ" Discuss... I don't think my R56 "Buzzes".

:off topic: I used to know a fab Glasgow band called "THRUM" in the early 90's though... saw them live lots of times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypXESGozhxg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1STYUZgCnEM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1STYUZgCnEM)
Brilliant live band... Maria McKee met Neil Young and a THRUM was born! :whoohoo: :dance: :clap: Should've made the BIG Time back then :idunno: but for some reason it never really happened.
Reformed and released new album in 2011 - still sounding fine :thumbs up: New stuff out now and apparently they played the Tron theatre very recently, but I missed it :sad: Check them out if you can.

[Eddie_JCW]

My R56 certainly doesn't buzz, it's more roar, pop, burble! Not necessarily in that order.

[Mon the fish]

If 3-pot engines were that good, they would be in everything. 3 is just half an engine anyway :p

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[KenL]

If 3-pot engines were that good, they would be in everything. 3 is just half an engine anyway :p

Comparing like with like in the R56 Cooper v F56 Cooper the 3 cylinder wins easily. Better performance through the gears and in gear coupled with better mpg = win win!

[Mon the fish]

But what about feel, responsiveness, torque curve?

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[Stewart]

Cars in showrooms 14 March!


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[Gismo]

It's a very fine line between what each person has as their likes, personally I couldn't care less about mpg, I want more low end grunt and better handling

[AndyP & Lenore]

It's a very fine line between what each person has as their likes, personally I couldn't care less about mpg, I want more low end grunt and better handling

But then you only pay tuppence a gallon for your fuel. :p

[Mon the fish]

Out of the 4 cars the wife and I have, the R53 is the most fuel efficient - I'm with gismo, by buying a mini you value feel and handling over space, purchase price etc

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[Stewart]

With the new Car reportedly lighter (Euro version), more agile with less weight at the front with its lighter engine and a lower centre of gravity it bodes well. Will this feel as a MINI should, going by the countless reviews that’s a yes so far but I guess that thats no guarantee till you get behind the wheel. The fact the Cooper produces torque near on what the R53 produced and gets a nice hit in horsepower makes it an interesting proposition. Even more of a proposition getting more Mpg because that’s a no brainer after all who wants to pay more at the pumps. Figures are not the b all and end all but its all that can be dissected just now till mid march along with any reviews.

As I don’t have four cars :smilewinkgrin: a wee bit more space is a bonus along with more economy and if the handling and feeling is improved over my R56 then it's gladly accepted. Purchase price is a very personal matter that combines your heart strings with your wallet. It’s a balancing act of what you want from a car and what level of performance you feel you need to appreciate it and enjoy the car. Duncan and Mr C are case in point, they drive their Coopers on the limit and I dare say have enjoyed the Highland runs as much if not more than the more Performance focus cars like the Works or S and to me thats what MINI is all about.

It’s always going to be how you like your MINI and its one of the things that attracted me to brand. I love the higher performance cars but would I ever buy one probably not, it’s a personal choice I don’t feel the need for a full fat grin machine and that’s why if I do get another MINI it will be this improved F56 Cooper now. It is after all only natural to care more about your personal wants than what anybody else wants.

Having never owned a S or a Works I'm sure I'll apreciate the added grunt if I get one. :thumbs up: Just glad to see that some of the Scottish dealers will have the Cooper, S and D on show next month to make a more informed choice.

[KenL]

Well said Stewart.

[ELFMAN]

Well said Stewart.

Ditto! :thumbs up: If you're not careful Stewart you'll get banned from NMS for being far too sensible and even-handed :hand:

I reckon we just have to wait and drive the new COOPER before we REALLY know what it's all about. The stats and early tests look pretty good, it even seems to hold on to its (higher) power longer than the outgoing R56 COOP (6K v 5.5K) which must be a Good Thing. Torque is great, but an engine which runs out of puff just when it should be getting interesting is a bit of a fun-killer, but the proof of the pudding... as they say. I know the mods on my current car helped the top end a bit and made it a much more interesting drive, but my old modded 106GTI was a proper wee top-end screamer! (and so was I at times...).

- - - Updated - - -


If 3-pot engines were that good, they would be in everything. 3 is just half an engine anyway :p

Surely that should be "just a quarter of an engine"... Mr 550! :smilewinkgrin:

[Mon the fish]

Surely that should be "just a quarter of an engine"... :Whistle:

Well kinda but I didn't want to upset the wife :p

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[ELFMAN]

Well kinda but I didn't want to upset the wife :p

Why break the habit of a lifetime? Anyway, if buying a Ferrari didn't get you killed, I reckon you're pretty safe :thumbs up:

[Mon the fish]

Why break the habit of a lifetime? Anyway, if buying a Ferrari didn't get you killed, I reckon you're pretty safe :thumbs up:

It made her get a Z4 in response, which ain't too bad I suppose.

But on topic - you're bang on about the torque staying there until higher up the rev range - that's one of the things that always put me off the R56, and hopefully they've resolved that for the new one - I've not looked at any figures tbh

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[Stewart]

One of the pics doing the rounds.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t31/1598541_719164061437419_1865748892_o.jpg

Seems some Dealer thing in Madrid trying out the new cars.

We've driven each of these today on an obstacle course, come in this weekend for a chat about the strengths and weaknesses of each. Eastern MINI
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/1908235_719340964753062_1446928476_n.jpg

[Stewart]

first Clip shows what the lights will be like around 4 min mark after you get past all the artsy stuff. The other Clip is just a really good review of the guy giving it beans and one of the best reviews I've seen so far.



http://youtu.be/SrPYhxqueqE



http://youtu.be/d_FxLJQOCF8

[Stewart]

2015 JCW Power Output Revealed

For the past few years we’ve been told by insiders that the next generation JCW power plant would be shared with a BMW. First we thought that might be the i8 with it’s 225 hp three cylinder. Then we were tipped off it would instead be based on a 2.0L four cylinder making more power than today’s car. Finally a few months ago we got a code-name for the new engine: B48B20O0. And after some digging we discovered it matched a code-name used for the (at the time) soon to be released BMW 225i Active Tourer – also based on the MINI platform of course. Finally with the release of the new BMW 225i we finally saw a power figure for that engine.

That figure is 170 kW/231 hp. As luck would have it, that number matches what our sources have been telling us in terms of output, giving us confidence that it’s indeed an excellent indication of where the JCW will be. But this number also makes sense if we just do the math. Historically JCW power plants have had around 20% more power than the Cooper S equivalent at the time.

Naturally MINI and even JCW has never been about power and the rest of the car and as expected the 2015 JCW will come with updated four piston front brakes (it retains the standard items in the rear) and a revised suspension. But with plenty of high performance $30K cars on the market, MINI had to up the HP game considerably to remain relevant in that market. Going from 208 (US spec) to around 230 hp will go a long way in doing that. Furthermore this power figure represents an almost 20% power increase over the new F56 Cooper S. A car that I can attest to as having R56 JCW levels of on-road performance.

Performance figures should be impressive of not at the level of all-wheel-drive rivals. Expect 0-60 times below six seconds and a top speed likely around 150 mph. More importantly it should be a little monster on the track and between the cones.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2014/02/15/exclusive-2015-jcw-power-output-revealed/

Still only an indication. But going from 208 to 231 Bhp standard seems respectable.
MINI is planning to debut the 2015 JCW on the internet in December of 2014. This means we should see a production debut at the 2015 Detroit Autoshow in early January of 2015. Production should start in March of 2015 with the first cars hitting dealers in April throughout Europe and May in the US.

- - - Updated - - -


Evo review of F56 S
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/2014_mini_cooper_s_review (http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/291730/2014_mini_cooper_s_review.html?campaignid=MINI_Soc ialMedia&advertiserid=Facebook_CGM&bannerid=Evo)


F55 Parked outside Munich Airport.

http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/2014-MINI-F55-Fuenftuerer-Erlkoenig-5-Door-02-655x370.jpg
http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/2014-MINI-F55-Fuenftuerer-Erlkoenig-5-Door-03-655x370.jpg
http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content/uploads/2014-MINI-F55-Fuenftuerer-Erlkoenig-5-Door-05-655x370.jpg

[Mon the fish]

Looks like electric blue (the best colour) is back :-)

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[Stewart]

Looks like electric blue (the best colour) is back :-)
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I like it as well but I dont see an options for it :sad:

Ali I’m sure the Works engine will be a different beasty to the BMW people carrier with a few tweaks. I don’t see it as a bad thing. With a shared Engine that is so important to BMW and MINI surly more Money was invested from day one, more time taken to get them right. Is having a proper BMW engine a bad thing now in a MINI, cant say never having owned a BMW. You could say the current MINI engine could pull up beside you in a Pug or Citroen. The first gen MINI was more or less a Dodge Neon block.

The very prince engine in the R56 Works is pumping out 270hp in the Peugeot RCZ R

[Stewart]

MINI F54 Clubbie.....Seemingly the new type DRS fails if you overtake a German but this may be limited to only the Australian market. :smilewinkgrin:



Sources have been telling us for more than a year to expect something special in the drivetrain of the next generation MINI Clubman. More recently, we’ve had a high-level sources confirm that the Clubman will indeed see all-wheel drive in at least one configuration. What we didn’t realize was that both sources were actually saying the same thing. When MINI releases the 2016 Clubman next year, we believe they will also introduce the brand’s first hybrid model along with the rest of the normal range of petrol and diesel engines. But this isn’t just a typical hybrid system that we’ve seen on cars like the Prius for more than a decade. It’s something decidedly more interesting for people who care about performance as well as efficiency.

Sources familiar with MINI’s plans have indicated that the hybrid system will be identical to what BMW first revealed in the Active Tourer hybrid concept back in 2012. Given the detail that BMW released at the time, it was clear it would see production in some BMW Group vehicle. We now believe that BMW will debut this system in both the 2 Series Active Tourer and the MINI Clubman around the same time next year.

Enter The MINI Clubman All-Wheel Drive Plugin Hybrid
At the heart of the new Hybrid Clubman will be the 1.5L three cylinder lifted from the F56 Cooper and powering the front wheels. Integrated into that will be a plug-in hybrid system (likely derived from the BMW i8) powering the rear wheels only. The beauty of that arrangement is the torque (which is abundant in electric motors) won’t overwhelm the front tires and instead will provide additional power in the most effective way – to the rear. Not only will power and torque be better distributed, but it will also allow for better weight distribution across the entire car.

The synchronous electric motor will likely have an electric-only range of around 15-20 miles. Obviously this would be ideal for urban environments.

The system that BMW has shown in concept form (and has been testing for years in R55 Clubman mules) has an output of “over” 140 kW/190 bhp. Doing the math backwards (and assuming MINI won’t detune the 134 hp Cooper 1.5L engine) we can expect the electric engine will have around 60 hp by itself.

Given these numbers (and adding the extra weight of the system) we’d expect 0-60 times in the low 7s. More importantly BMW has said it expects the system to achieve a fuel consumption of less than 2.5 litres per 100 kilometers (94 mpg, 113 mpg imp), with a CO2 emissions level of less than 60 g/km. Granted those figures will be altered for the US based on the EPA’s own measurement but they will still be similarly astounding in production form.

Hybrid Performance
According to BMW’s published report on the concept power plant, the electric engine has been developed in-house at BMW. With a fully charged battery, the electric only range should be over 30 kilometers giving the Clubman Plug-In Hybrid the ability to be in 100% electric mode for the majority of day-to-day trips that don’t involve high speeds. What’s more interesting, BMW has created a boost function that could be thought of as DRS or a “Push to Pass” system. It gives the petrol engine a sudden boost of power for what BMW calls “highly dynamic acceleration maneuvers” – BMW’s words, not ours. With this system the power is made available “spontaneously and without delay”. The best part? The maximum torque of 200 N-m is available from standing.

The hybrid system’s lithium-ion battery can be charged at any 220 volt household power socket. Time for a full charge hasn’t been published yet nor has time to charge from higher voltage sockets.

Regenerative power can be drawn from both axles of the BMW Concept Active Tourer and fed back into the lithium-ion battery so as to enhance the efficiency of the plug-in hybrid. While the electric motor automatically recuperates maximum energy at the rear axle during deceleration, a high-volt generator connected to the combustion engine additionally charges the battery whenever needed. Naturally we expect that same tech to make it to production.

Hybrid Drive with Intelligent Energy Management
As part of the BMW Group’s typical Efficient Dynamics strategy, the hybrid system will use data provided by the navigation system, calculating in advance the most suitable sections of the route and driving situations in which to apply electric drive or charge the battery. This optimized charging strategy saves up to 10% of energy so as to extend the amount of travel time during which the vehicle runs on electrical power alone.

Additionally the default ECO PRO mode aims to maximize range in all-electric mode, something that is achieved by minimising the energy consumption of the ancillary units. To this end, ECO PRO mode will reduce the output of the air conditioning and other electrically operated comfort-enhancing functions when appropriate. If MINI uses the functionality that is found on BMW’s electric i3, ECO PRO could also provide driving tips, and the Bonus Range Display shows how many additional miles can be added to the car’s range by keeping to the fuel-economy-maximising ECO PRO mode on. Additionally MINI will likely use the i3′s Proactive Driving Assistant that works with the Nav to anticipate local conditions and send the driver tips to prepare for the situation ahead. In that car ECO PRO Route also plays its part in minimising fuel consumption by setting out the most efficient route based on volume of traffic, personal driving style and local conditions.

When and How Much?
The MINI Clubman Hybrid will likely debut around the same time as the Clubman itself, in the second half of 2015. It’s unclear what MINI will name the system and what the model will be called. However it’s clear that the Clubman Hybrid will sit atop the model range in price given its combination of extra tech, performance and extreme efficiency.

MotoringFile

[KenL]

A new thread for non-f56 cars might be a good idea.

Great info though...

[Burple]

John Clarks in Dundee now have an F56.. a bright orangey yellow and black Cooper D..

I was there last night and had a wee seat in it :p:p

I still really don't think much of the front end or rear lights.. but that interior is a VERY nice place to be! The seats (if they are the standard ones) are epically comfy and supportive! Feels pretty well built too. I really hope a different colour combo will stop the front end looking so fugly :D;)

Sorry, no pics, as it was getting dark and the guy was really trying to get me out the way to finish cleaning it :hand::D

[zimbo]

John Clarks in Dundee now have an F56.. a bright orangey yellow and black Cooper D..

I was there last night and had a wee seat in it :p:p

I still really don't think much of the front end or rear lights.. but that interior is a VERY nice place to be! The seats (if they are the standard ones) are epically comfy and supportive! Feels pretty well built too. I really hope a different colour combo will stop the front end looking so fugly :D;)

Sorry, no pics, as it was getting dark and the guy was really trying to get me out the way to finish cleaning it :hand::D

Oh no If there are no photos then it DID NOT happen!! :hand:

[ianking]

It was at Eastern the other day too. The interior was well specced. I dont like the 1970s British Leyland style yellow/mustard paint though

[Crombers]

It’s a balancing act of what you want from a car and what level of performance you feel you need to appreciate it and enjoy the car. Duncan and Mr C are case in point, they drive their Coopers on the limit and I dare say have enjoyed the Highland runs as much if not more than the more Performance focus cars like the Works or S and to me thats what MINI is all about.

Could not have put in words any better.

Stewart :thumbs up:

[ELFMAN]

It's often more satisfying to get a bit more for "less" than it it to get just enough from "more". Sounds a bit daft, but I know from experience if you've just had a fantastic run in your COOPER and you know you couldn't have done it any better or had more fun in a more powerful model, it feels great - as if you've got a bit of a bonus! If you have an out and out performance motor, you EXPECT it to be great and sometimes it doesn't live up to the star billing. Having said that, I've had absolutely stonking drives in ALL my MINIs, and the grunt from the S cars is quite addictive - but it's all relative, and you get used to the extra straight-line speed.

At the end of the day it's all about feel - power is just the icing on the cake. The original Mini punched above its weight, as did the Gen 1 COOPER when it came out, and I reckon that 'vibe' was lost a bit when the more powerful MINIs came on the scene. Maybe the newest COOPER with its more understated looks, but up-to-date tech will recapture some of that feeling?

[Mon the fish]

^^ All true, and I had some great drives in my R50.

But seeing the look on an Evo or M3 drivers' face when a baby blue mini won't disappear is priceless

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[Craig]

^^ All true, and I had some great drives in my R50.

But seeing the look on an Evo or M3 drivers' face when a baby blue mini won't disappear is priceless

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:lol: :lol:


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[zimbo]

^^ All true, and I had some great drives in my R50.

But seeing the look on an Evo or M3 drivers' face when a baby blue mini won't disappear is priceless

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I particularly remember seeing a red EVO7 or 8 with a black R53 on his back bumper both travelling at warp speed :lol:

[Crombers]

^^ All true, and I had some great drives in my R50.

But seeing the look on an Evo or M3 drivers' face when a baby blue mini won't disappear is priceless

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:thumbs up:

[Burple]

^^ All true, and I had some great drives in my R50.

But seeing the look on an Evo or M3 drivers' face when a baby blue mini won't disappear is priceless

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:thumbs up: gotta agree with this..
I remember a few years ago on a tiny wee twisty road I got caught up by an M5.. So after a bit I let him past and tried to keep up.. He only got away on the straight bits, and on the twisties he was almost binning it in the verges trying to get away :D:D
I let him go after a while.. didn't want to make him bend it and damage my car with flying bits of BMW :lol:
That was in the old '03 Cooper

[Mon the fish]

I kept up with several Italian exotica in the R53 on the A93 in the summer, really annoyed a few of them. Same as above, commitment in the twisties did it for me

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[Gismo]

And could I ever forget the epic Cullen Run recce with Mr Barrie

[RobSco]

Received an Exclusive Invite from Peter Vardy in Edinburgh to the Official Preview Launch Event of the 2014 Mini Hatch on the 14th March to which I have gladly accepted their invite and look forward to the special night, anyone else going or taking up their offer... :smilewinkgrin:

[KenL]

I will be there. KenL

[RobSco]

I will be there. KenL

See you there Ken, Will lookout for you... :thumbs up:

[Angib]

Received an Exclusive Invite...

Is that "Exclusive" as in "just you (and your 30,000 closest friends)"?

[Craig]

I'm going :)


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[RobSco]

Is that "Exclusive" as in "just you (and your 30,000 closest friends)"?

Exclusive invite sent out to previous customers by Peter Vardy and has limited spaces, Invite for myself + one...

(Sorry I can't take my 30,000 closest friends if I could I would) :lol:


I'm going :)

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See you there Craig... :thumbs up:

[weefossy]

We're going.

[RobSco]

We're going.

Look forward to meeting up with you both again on the night... :thumbs up:

[JOHN MILNE]

:thumbs up:I will be there too

[AndyP & Lenore]

I think mine and Lenore's invite must be lost in the post. pmsl.:frown:

[RobSco]

:thumbs up:I will be there too

Look forward to meeting you John... :thumbs up:


I think mine and Lenore's invite must be lost in the post. pmsl.:frown:

You'll just have to keep checking your inbox Andy, Email sent to me today... :thumbs up:

[KenL]

I wonder what cars they will have? I expect they will have an orange S and a blue or red Cooper.

I would like to see a base spec car as I might go for a base car next time.

[AndyP & Lenore]

You'll just have to keep checking your inbox Andy, Email sent to me today... :thumbs up:

Just found it in Lenore's spam folder. RSVP'd :thumbs up:

[RobSco]

I wonder what cars they will have? I expect they will have an orange S and a blue or red Cooper.

I would like to see a base spec car as I might go for a base car next time.

What ever they have will be good to see, Might even win the prize draw... :thumbs up:


Just found it in Lenore's spam folder. RSVP'd :thumbs up:

Nice one Andy, look forward to meeting you both on the night, Thats if you have the night off, have you check with your manager... :lol:

[AndyP & Lenore]

Nice one Andy, look forward to meeting you both on the night, Thats if you have the night off, have you check with your manager... :lol:

Thursday and Fridays for us are like Sat & Sun for normal people. So we'll deffo be off on that Friday. :thumbs up:

[MINI William]

A little update for people. When we were up at the garage today we found out that MINI UK alone have sold 4000 F56s

[Eddie_JCW]

That's some amount of new MINIs hopefully we'll get some new members from those sales :)

[MINI William]

That's some amount of new MINIs hopefully we'll get some new members from those sales :)

Thats the plan Eddie. NMS leaflets are in Harry Fairbairn dealerships and being given out with each car put out. Along with also being mentioned and our logo on the HF run flyers.

[Eddie_JCW]

Thats the plan Eddie. NMS leaflets are in Harry Fairbairn dealerships and being given out with each car put out. Along with also being mentioned and our logo on the HF run flyers.

Cool, certainly getting the word about then. HF are ideal because they seem to be in areas where NMS has few members at the moment, Ayrshire Especially.

[AndyP & Lenore]

A little update for people. When we were up at the garage today we found out that MINI UK alone have sold 4000 F56s

Not that I want to sound like a misery guts but.....

If that is pre orders it's actually a bit pants.

If you consider that you have not been able to order a hatch since September, that's 5 months, which is 800 orders a month, assuming there are 200 MINI dealers in the uk, that's only 4 each per month since September.

Variables: I've no idea exactly how many MINI dealers there are in the UK. And that 4000 may have been orders taken in the past two weeks - which would be awesome.

Just the way my mind works. :Whistle:

[KenL]

Let's hope that when new forum members come along they will not find their new pride and joy being slagged off on here. :frown:

[MINI William]

Let's hope that when new forum members come along they will not find their new pride and joy being slagged off on here. :frown:

I can't see that happening Ken. With the vast majority of people who initially "slagged off" the F56 now coming round to the car. As always new members are welcomed with open arms and not making these people feel welcomed, part of our community or bullying will never be tolerated.

Each person is entitled to his or her own opinion it's how we put these opinions over that would be determined as "slagging off"

Most of the R56 haters ended up with an R56, I see no reason for change, as if you want a MINI Hatch the F56 is your only choice.

[Mon the fish]

4000 people ordered a car they hadn't driven!?

Andrew Frankel tests the F56 in this month's MotorSport magazine. He's disappointed in the S, saying BMW have moved it too mainstream at the expense of fun and driver involvement. Also lacking in ability to steer on the throttle.

Like every other review so far, he reckons the Cooper is the way to go.

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[Eddie_JCW]

I can't see that happening Ken. With the vast majority of people who initially "slagged off" the F56 now coming round to the car. As always new members are welcomed with open arms and not making these people feel welcomed, part of our community or bullying will never be tolerated.

Each person is entitled to his or her own opinion it's how we put these opinions over that would be determined as "slagging off"

Most of the R56 haters ended up with an R56, I see no reason for change, as if you want a MINI Hatch the F56 is your only choice.

I've been a member of a couple of forums and this, by far, has been the friendliest of them all. I am not an outgoing person but so far everyone has been great, making me feel welcome and involved, especially on runs and meets which I was worried about when I first joined.

So from a relatively new member I can't see people having their cars slagged off either.

I, like most, was very unsure of the F56, in fact, I thought BMW had ruined it, but it's certainly grown on me. I'm scared to go to this HF dealer run because I'll probably end up with a orange S knowing my track record with cars (thankfully they've not launched the JCW because that probably would be definitely) :lol:

There's no doubt if the F56 JCW has the 231bhp as suggested, I'll end up with one. :D

[Mon the fish]

There's also a difference between unwarranted 'slagging off' and having a valid opinion. Just because we may have different opinions, doesn't mean we all can't get along. Besides, if we did all have the same opinion, runs would be very boring as we'd all turn up in the same car!

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[MINI William]

I've been a member of a couple of forums and this, by far, has been the friendliest of them all. I am not an outgoing person but so far everyone has been great, making me feel welcome and involved, especially on runs and meets which I was worried about when I first joined.

So from a relatively new member I can't see people having their cars slagged off either.

I, like most, was very unsure of the F56, in fact, I thought BMW had ruined it, but it's certainly grown on me. I'm scared to go to this HF dealer run because I'll probably end up with a orange S knowing my track record with cars (thankfully they've not launched the JCW because that probably would be definitely) :lol:

There's no doubt if the F56 JCW has the 231bhp as suggested, I'll end up with one. :D

Eddie I'm pleased your enjoying your time with NMS. I personally love the orange and have been waiting on an orange MINI for years now.


There's also a difference between unwarranted 'slagging off' and having a valid opinion. Just because we may have different opinions, doesn't mean we all can't get along. Besides, if we did all have the same opinion, runs would be very boring as we'd all turn up in the same car!

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Exactly my point. People are entitled to their opinion just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they are slagging it off nor should they. Everyone is different and personal opinion is individual.

[ewans]

I've just joined today, but glad to see some of my Madrid pics got here before me. Just a few comments from the stuff I've just read in this thread, Electric Blue is 100% back this year, not available yet but it'll be here prob to coincide with the F55. I'm good to get some flyers to some mini owners if you can let me know where to the flyers from, will hopefully give your numbers a boost.

[KenL]

There is a new version of the configurator on the MINI UK site.

Also, a new colour "Moonwalk Grey" which looks very smart. Looking forward to seeing this in the metal!

[MINI William]

I've just joined today, but glad to see some of my Madrid pics got here before me. Just a few comments from the stuff I've just read in this thread, Electric Blue is 100% back this year, not available yet but it'll be here prob to coincide with the F55. I'm good to get some flyers to some mini owners if you can let me know where to the flyers from, will hopefully give your numbers a boost.


What Madrid pics would they be? How would you get the flyers out just put them on MINIs that you see going about?

[ELFMAN]

Exactly my point. People are entitled to their opinion just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they are slagging it off nor should they. Everyone is different and personal opinion is individual.

We ARE all different (brought together by MINIs) and have our own likes and dislikes, and I hope we always try to respect others' opinions and choices - and RESPECT is the key word here. Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that arguing about MINIs like arguing about Music - pretty pointless - each to their own! Vive La Difference!

- - - Updated - - -


Most of the R56 haters ended up with an R56

Guilty as charged... :Whistle: :hand:

[KenL]

Just back from PV. Very pleased impressed with the new car, especially the Cooper. Seems like a quality piece of kit. Light ring does seem a bit OTT but it was dark. New seats are great even the non sports seats are good.

Having a test drive in Easter holidays hopefully for a few hours.

[Track Ali]

Just back from our first test drive. The demonstrator was a Thunder Grey Cooper S manual.

Initial impressions are good. Still feels like a MINI although a bit more grown up. I've already said that the exterior looks better in the flesh than in pictures. The same goes for the interior. The test car had leather seats which were supportive and comfortable (far better than the optional JCW Recaro seats offered in the tail-end of R56 production). Interestingly the car felt more pinched in terms of width, but far better length wise. I spent the second leg of our test drive in the back seat - not something I'd have done test-driving an R56! From the cabin the view quite different. The windows feel a bit smaller and you sense more car around you. Getting back in my R56 I felt like I could see far more of the world.

On the road the test car was a bit spoilt by the 18-inch wheels. For the most part it was composed and comfortable but bigger bumps did catch it out. 17's would have been much better. Steering is good around town although I didn't notice a huge change going between Eco and Sport mode. The change in throttle response was more noticeable.

Performance wise the F56 is certainly a step forward. The extra torque is noticeable and the car has a fantastic mid-range. A few online journalists have speculated that the F56 S offers R56 JCW levels of performance. In terms of subjective feel I'd agree. In fact I'd even go so far as to say that the new S feels slightly quicker. But that's subjective feel only. Side by side I reckon the R56 JCW will still be the quicker car, but that by no means reflects poorly on the new S.

All in all, a solid step forward in my opinion. Looking forward to sampling the JCW :p

EDIT: Forgot to mention the highlight of my test drive. Some might call me daft for getting so excited over such a small detail, but I really like the new gear knob. The stitched leather looks really cool and it feels great to use. Just another one of those little MINI details that makes me smile.

[KenL]

Thanks for the review. Very positive given that you currently have such an excellent car.

[MINI William]

Had a quick shot of a Cooper S today. A lovely car to drive and looks great in the flesh inside and out.

[KenL]

I have just spent about 30 minutes looking over this thread. Some "interesting" comments.

Mon the fish - Do you still think the f56 is an "abomination'?

- - - Updated - - -


Had a quick shot of a Cooper S today. A lovely car to drive and looks great in the flesh inside and out.

Excellent. Where did you get a test drive? What was the colour and spec.

[MINI William]

I have just spent about 30 minutes looking over this thread. Some "interesting" comments.

Mon the fish - Do you still think the f56 is an "abomination'?

- - - Updated - - -



Excellent. Where did you get a test drive? What was the colour and spec.

HF Kirkcaldy. Thunder grey S with big spec

[KenL]

The VO S at PV was ~£26k.

[Mon the fish]

I have just spent about 30 minutes looking over this thread. Some "interesting" comments.

Mon the fish - Do you still think the f56 is an "abomination'?

- - - Updated - - -



Excellent. Where did you get a test drive? What was the colour and spec.

Yes. I still think that bumper is horrendous

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[illegalhunter]

I had a wee sit in the F56 s today . The leather seats were great , but for anything like a good spec it's £27k . Now after my r56 dog , I'll give it a miss fir a while

[KenL]

Yes. I still think that bumper is horrendous


Honestly, it looks fine when you actually see it. The Cooper looks the best to me, perhaps I am only saying that ss it is the car I am most likely to buy.

[d.oxley72]

Sat in the new Cooper at Crossflags Dumfries. Really like the interior and the boot space ( hidden floor a good idea). I'm still not won over by the front end but overall I like it.

[badwolf340]

Sat in the new Cooper at Crossflags Dumfries. Really like the interior and the boot space ( hidden floor a good idea). I'm still not won over by the front end but overall I like it.
most people seem to come to this conclusion ,overall a good car with some nice bits of kit if you so wish :yes nod:

[goodingm]

Very nice interior , but thought the Cooper S front end was far too busy and cluttered looking, the orange colour which I did not like did not help. I was more taken by a paceman they had in stock, pity you could not get new interior in that.

[Crombers]

Having sat in the F56 Cooper yesterday it sure is a nice place to be. The seats are just awesome & the quality/soft touch interior finish is top notch. Okay I'm old fashioned & like the speedo to be in the middle of the dash but hey ho I'm willing to concede. I'm also impressed with the new power outputs / economy gains, who wouldn't. A sub 8 second sprint to 60 in a Cooper along with £30 road tax has to be applauded.

However ........ (we knew this was gonna happen) it is gonna take me a wee while yet to get over the front face & rear lights. To get so much of the interior & drivetrain so right only to be let down by the looks :idunno: it's the same with recent BMW cars, I'm just not hooking onto the styles.

I will however persevere :unsure:

[Andrew]

Has anyone had a test drive in a diesel car or are all the demonstrators petrol?

[KenL]

A distance from you but Peter Vardy in Edinburgh have 2 Cooper diesels.

Red with Pepper pack and a black one with Chilli.

[Ivano]

Has anyone had a test drive in a diesel car or are all the demonstrators petrol?

I see you are in Prestwick.

Our Harry Fairbairn Irvine dealership should have a Diesel demonstrator. I will check this morning.

If they do, i can certainly arrange a test drive for you if you want.

[ELFMAN]

I had a wee sit in the F56 s today . The leather seats were great , but for anything like a good spec it's £27k . Now after my r56 dog , I'll give it a miss fir a while

I specced an S and a Cooper to a decent (by my reckoning) level on the configurator last week. Identical spec on both cars came out with approx £23.5K for the S and just over £21K for the Cooper, so I don't get the £27K I'm afraid.
I could even knock a few bits off those specs and still have a decent motor. All depends what you think you need I suppose...:idunno:

[Eddie_JCW]

I specced an S for Rachael (so she thinks) and for the car I'd like it was £28k lol but there wasn't many options not ticked. If (when) I was to get another MINI it would be more because I'd be after the new JCW. But I can't think of any other car that has similar options, character, refinement and build quality that'd be a contender for the F56, but that's only my opinion. :)

[Andrew]

I see you are in Prestwick.

Our Harry Fairbairn Irvine dealership should have a Diesel demonstrator. I will check this morning.

If they do, i can certainly arrange a test drive for you if you want.

Most people seem to be talking about the new petrol engines, I was just wondering if any of the diesel owners had made a comparison.

- - - Updated - - -


I specced an S and a Cooper to a decent (by my reckoning) level on the configurator last week. Identical spec on both cars came out with approx £23.5K for the S and just over £21K for the Cooper, so I don't get the £27K I'm afraid.
I could even knock a few bits off those specs and still have a decent motor. All depends what you think you need I suppose...:idunno:


Douglas Park in Glasgow have a grey S in the showroom with a price tag of over £28K.

Including the chili pack there was a healthy list of extras included. Though £299 for paint protection seemed a bit steep. I think the cleaning specialists on here would take a dim view of paying that :D

[Eddie_JCW]

Elfman the only thing I'd say was a must that isn't added is LED headlights at £610 IIRC ;) but other than that I think that's a car most could live with and be happy.

[ELFMAN]

Elfman the only thing I'd say was a must that isn't added is LED headlights at £610 IIRC ;) but other than that I think that's a car most could live with and be happy.

Eddie, you're right, I was trying to put these on, but it kept taking off the Chilli Pack! Saying 'not available with front fog lights' or some nonsense. I must've been hitting the wrong buttons. So you'd be looking at just over £24K for 'my' spec, and the COOPER would be about £2K cheaper... which doesn't seem a big difference for the extra grunt (and extra cylinder).

[Eddie_JCW]

It's well worth every penny, and to be honest the optional extras are reasonably priced I think, especially for the JCW bits, variable dampers and HUD

[KenL]

Some options are reasonably prived others are not.

A good example is ~£150 for anthracite headliner, something that will be at virtually no extra cost to MINI.

[Mon the fish]

Spending mid-20k is still a lot for a mini IMO - you can get a 2 year old M3 for that, and you're not far off M135 money

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[KenL]

Thats true, keep the toys to a minimum and enjoy the car. HUD, auto parking, huge wheels, leather seats etc. are all a waste of cash.

[zimbo]

The saying 'One mans meat is another mans poison' comes to mind in this thread as what some people consider to be a waste of money or unnecessary could be considered as essential by others. I have not yet had a good enough look through the options available yet to see what I'd fancy in my F56 if I was ever to get one, the only one that I DO know that I would want for definate is the new sports seats like the ones that were in the Cooper that I drove on saturday they were like grey cloth from the 70s/80s era with leather sides and were absolutely amazing, and the LED headflamps and fog lamps look awesome and should be brilliant and I would definately go for DRLs. Those are my must haves that I know of so far :thumbs up:

I sat in the cooper S at my dealer which had HUD specced and the thing that I noticed was that the digits were really tiny compared what we saw on the leaked images of the HUD over the past year and it made it pretty difficult for me to see without having to wear my specs which I only need to wear if reading and not needed for driving so as much as I have been looking forward to seeing, using and maybe even speccing it I now think it would be a waste of my personnal money and would not be of any use to me :sadangel:

While I was out on my road test I forgot about the sport/green mode thingymajig around the bottom of the gear gaiter so forgot to try it and was just wondering if any of you tried it and if so what did you think?

So far I have only driven the new Cooper but I would eventually like to be able try out the D and the S at some point, the fact that you never have to pay Road tax for the D is very appealing :yes nod: and I have loved both my previous hatch and clubby Ds and as far as the S goes, I think due to price that my long lived dream of ever owning one will just continue to remain just a dream.

[ELFMAN]

Spending mid-20k is still a lot for a mini IMO - you can get a 2 year old M3 for that, and you're not far off M135 money. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Agreed, but you can make that argument about ANY new Vs older/classic car purchase can't you? For example, in my recent 'Classic Searches' I could get (from a very reputable classic dealer in Yorkshire) a pristine fully rebuilt '67 MGBGT for under £10K, or a minted '68 MGC Roadster (lovely straight six...) for just under £20K. Or how's about a fully sorted MGB V8 Roadster - again for under £20k? None of these will depreciate all that much, and in the case of the MGC, it might even appreciate in the next few years. And that's just the MG's!

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People either make up their minds to buy a new motor - MINI or whatever - or to go for something older and arguably more 'interesting'. There are pros and cons in both cases. If anybody really thought about depreciation etc, they'd probably never buy a new car. But there is something nice about getting into a brand new car, built to your spec, which nobody's messed with and which has a full Warranty and (hopefully) no reliability issues to cause you grief. I mean you'll know that you could've done a whole lot with the Ferrari 550 money :smilewinkgrin: But it's a beautiful piece of kit and will give you tons of pleasure. So whether it's a new MINI or an old Classic, if you really want something, 'common sense' and 'real value for money' doesn't always get a look in!

[Eddie_JCW]

I sat in the cooper S at my dealer which had HUD specced and the thing that I noticed was that the digits were really tiny compared what we saw on the leaked images of the HUD over the past year and it made it pretty difficult for me to see without having to wear my specs which I only need to wear if reading and not needed for driving so as much as I have been looking forward to seeing, using and maybe even speccing it I now think it would be a waste of my personnal money and would not be of any use to me :sadangel:

While I was out on my road test I forgot about the sport/green mode thingymajig around the bottom of the gear gaiter so forgot to try it and was just wondering if any of you tried it and if so what did you think?

So far I have only driven the new Cooper but I would eventually like to be able try out the D and the S at some point, the fact that you never have to pay Road tax for the D is very appealing :yes nod: and I have loved both my previous hatch and clubby Ds and as far as the S goes, I think due to price that my long lived dream of ever owning one will just continue to remain just a dream.

I can't remember what size the font was but I'd be surprised if it wasn't adjustable. I found it very clear and very useful especially having the speed limit next to your speed.

I put it into sport mode from mid mode but I don't think the test car had variable dampers, so, much like R56 sport mode except throttle response wasn't as brutal as it is in my JCW. Green mode wasn't even though of on the testdrive I was having too much fun. :lol:

[MINI William]

I can't remember what size the font was but I'd be surprised if it wasn't adjustable. I found it very clear and very useful especially having the speed limit next to your speed.

I put it into sport mode from mid mode but I don't think the test car had variable dampers, so, much like R56 sport mode except throttle response wasn't as brutal as it is in my JCW. Green mode wasn't even though of on the testdrive I was having too much fun. :lol:

Eddie the S at HF Kirkcaldy has EDC :smilewinkgrin:

[Eddie_JCW]

Eddie the S at HF Kirkcaldy has EDC :smilewinkgrin:

I didn't feel like I had a proper drive of it, I hate going for it with a sales person next to me unless told to. We're going back up at some point so Rachael can have a drive of it (I don't think she wanted to stall it in front of a crowd, not that she would though but try telling her that lol)

At least we know now EDC doesn't make the car uncomfortable. :lol: More I think of it that makes sense as it was comfortable but very flat through bends.

Thanks for clearing that up William, it's now a definite on my F56 when I change. :thumbs up:

[Mon the fish]

(hopefully) no reliability issues to cause you grief

Judging by Mini's past record, I wouldn't be buying a brand new F56 if that was the case - I'd wait 6 months or so for all the bugs to be ironed out.

I get Mini's (I have one I love dearly), I just don't think they're worth over £20k for a Cooper, and over £25k for an S. I just think that's daft money for what they are personally. A lot of the options that push the price to that level, as Ken says, you have to question do you really need them? Will they really improve the driving experience?

[ELFMAN]

Judging by Mini's past record, I wouldn't be buying a brand new F56 if that was the case - I'd wait 6 months or so for all the bugs to be ironed out.

I get Mini's (I have one I love dearly), I just don't think they're worth over £20k for a Cooper, and over £25k for an S. I just think that's daft money for what they are personally. A lot of the options that push the price to that level, as Ken says, you have to question do you really need them? Will they really improve the driving experience?

Of course it's daft money - I totally agree with you. That's just the way it is if you want one. The COOPER starts at just over £15K anyway, so you could have a decent MINI drive for well under the £20K of my fairly high 'Daydream Spec'. The S is £18K - ish in basic form, and it's up to the buyer how much 'stuff' he or she fancies.

If I was convinced that buying an F56 was a no-brainer, I'd have ordered one already. But I have a great MINI, and I also quite fancy something 60's and Classic (like those MG's) at some point in the future, so my personal jury is still very much 'out' as to what I'll eventually do.

[Mon the fish]

Of course it's daft money - I totally agree with you. That's just the way it is if you want one. The COOPER starts at just over £15K anyway, so you could have a decent MINI drive for well under the £20K of my fairly high 'Daydream Spec'. The S is £18K - ish in basic form, and it's up to the buyer how much 'stuff' he or she fancies.

If I was convinced that buying an F56 was a no-brainer, I'd have ordered one already. But I have a great MINI, and I also quite fancy something 60's and Classic (like those MG's) at some point in the future, so my personal jury is still very much 'out' as to what I'll eventually do.

I've got my eye on an Austin A35 at the moment...

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[KenL]

Given that I have less spare cash than I used to I am likely to go for a Cooper with Pepper pack. It still has enough spec to make it an enjoyable car to own but won't be full of bits worth nothing after 3 years.

[ELFMAN]

I've got my eye on an Austin A35 at the moment... Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Love the wee A35 racers. You know it makes sense - it's even in the new F56 Orange! Nearly.

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Given that I have less spare cash than I used to I am likely to go for a Cooper with Pepper pack. It still has enough spec to make it an enjoyable car to own but won't be full of bits worth nothing after 3 years.

There's also another bonus Ken... Less toys = less weight = MORE FUN!!!! :motoring: :thumbs up:

[weefossy]

Think the new car looks great and I'm out for a test drive in the S tomorrow, but don't think I will be buying a new Mini again. The Beast gives me everything I need from a Mini and as it is doing less than 5k miles a year, it will do us for the forseeable future. In a similar position as Elfman and for £27k I would currently prefer to buy this XKR.....

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[Mon the fish]

^^^ That's my point. Do you 'need' another mini? Why not keep the one you have if you like it, and buy something like that?

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[gauldrymini]

Went for a test drive yesterday (short notice...so thanks to Grambo:thumbs up:)... in Grassicks well specced Thunder Grey Cooper S, and was really impressed, a very nice car to be in and drive with plenty of gadgets to use but did cost about £27K.

My only query was that it did not seem to POP as much as our Roadster Cooper S.

[ELFMAN]

^^^ That's my point. Do you 'need' another mini? Why not keep the one you have if you like it, and buy something like that?

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Although I must admit I do quite like the idea of a new MINI, on reflection, I still like my R56 too much to sell it. It has very low miles as although it was bought very much as my daily driver, due to a change in family circumstances just 3 weeks after I bought it, it became my '2nd car'. Even if I wanted to get a 'classic' car, I'd still have to get rid of the MINI as I need to keep my wee Skoda for family duties. I obviously don't drive the MINI as much as I'd like, but it was going well last Sunday and reminded me of how good it is and how it has 'evolved' into quite a sorted car since 2009, though there's always room for improvement! :smilewinkgrin:

[Crombers]

^^^ That's my point. Do you 'need' another mini? Why not keep the one you have if you like it, and buy something like that?

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I'm in this camp as well. Have always tended to keep cars, it's just my thing. My Cooper will be 10 years old this year & I could not consider a parting of ways. In 2004 it was the happiest part of a fairly dismal time in my life. To spare most of you the detail this little car has continued to put a smile on my face ......... it's just too valuable ........ to me :thumbs up:

The daily workhorse, an 11 year old Fiat Punto (bought from my dad) will be run into the ground / until I'm told "this MOT is just gonna cost too much dosh".

After that who knows what I'll go for, but I do need a five door hatch. That then rules out a new F56/newer R56 MINI hatch as I already have one & could not justify two versions of the same breed. At the moment the Countryman would probably tick all my boxes but at present the Fiat continues to do it's job :yes nod:

PS as I type Alfie (our West Highland terrier) has given me a look of "get rid of my Punto & I'll get personal" ........... ok wee fella calm down ............. Jeeze!!!! It's only a lump of metal :rolleyes:

(it's genuinely the only car he's settled in ............. ok his rug is always in there :Whistle:)

[Mon the fish]

Well, I went for a looky at the new one today, and it's not really floating my boat. Think Gismo did the right thing with getting an R56.

It's not as ugly in the flesh, but it's still ugly IMO. Rear lights too big, front overhang/gob too big, looks like there's a bigger car under the skin trying to force it's way through the bodywork.

The interior is well finished, but I didn't see it as a big leap from the R56. Thought the plastics round the handbrake/gearlever were particularly hard and cheap.

Don't think they could have got a cheaper-looking fuel gauge either, and the centre-speedo-without-a-speedo looked a bit daft IMO - a big chrome circle, full of square buttons!?

I didn't drive it, as I'm not buying one so didn't want to waste anyone's time. If it drives brilliantly, and I mean really brilliantly, then I could overlook all the interior things (if not the looks). But it's going to have to be so much more involving to drive than the R56 IMO, especially to justify some of the costs I've seen banded about.

Will stick to old faithful R53 ;)

[MINI William]

Well, I went for a looky at the new one today, and it's not really floating my boat. Think Gismo did the right thing with getting an R56.

It's not as ugly in the flesh, but it's still ugly IMO. Rear lights too big, front overhang/gob too big, looks like there's a bigger car under the skin trying to force it's way through the bodywork.

The interior is well finished, but I didn't see it as a big leap from the R56. Thought the plastics round the handbrake/gearlever were particularly hard and cheap.

Don't think they could have got a cheaper-looking fuel gauge either, and the centre-speedo-without-a-speedo looked a bit daft IMO - a big chrome circle, full of square buttons!?

I didn't drive it, as I'm not buying one so didn't want to waste anyone's time. If it drives brilliantly, and I mean really brilliantly, then I could overlook all the interior things (if not the looks). But it's going to have to be so much more involving to drive than the R56 IMO, especially to justify some of the costs I've seen banded about.

Will stick to old faithful R53 ;)


Only person I've seen that doesn't think the F56 is leaps and bounds ahead in the interior department. The cars interior is far superior to any previous MINI.

With a Cooper now having the same torque as a standard R53,I can only see this as a good thing.

IMHO the F56 isn't a bad place to sit your bum in and drive

[Mon the fish]

Don't get me wrong, it does seem well made. Just not the leap I was expecting

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[mini mad andy]

My car was in Peter Vardy today for a wee job and they gave me the new Cooper S for the morning so I thought it would be rude not to take it for a decent run. I must admit it was very impressive to drive, as has already been said the seats are really good. I can't compare the performance and handling to the previous Cooper S but I had no complaints about the way it went. The only things that annoyed me were I thought the arm rest made the handbrake a bit awkward ( probably because it was designed as LHD ) and I thought the rev counter was to small and not very easy to read quickly. I must admit I liked the head up display, thought it was good how it told you both your speed and the speed limit, probably not worth the money but I think I would still have it. The outside styling is mainly ok, maybe the tail lights are a bit big but I did not think they were to bad, not so sure about the front maybe it will grow on me. Would I have one, love to but I don't think my back could cope with it so I will just stick with and be happy with my Countryman.


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[KenL]

To anyone who has driven one, is the interior rattle free? I hate when a car is has squeaks and rattles.

[weefossy]

Ken, did our test drive for a couple of hours yesterday when the Beast was in for a service. Really enjoyed it and there was definately no rattles in the S we had. My report would be very similar to Andy's, but here are a few comments:-

Loved the on screen display, in particuar that it tells you the actual speed limit of the road you are on.
I liked the speedo / rev counter / fuel gage
Not too keen on the way the door handles work.
Didn't like the position of the arm rest. Think it was too high and too much on top of the hand brake. Made using the handbrake difficult.
Hated the foot rest for your left foot, it was too high. Meant that when I was cruising along, motorway driving, my left thigh was getting no support from the seat. If I put the seat further back to get support, i couldn't push the clutch fully in. A bit like an old Rennault I had.
Apart from the above, thought the seats were a vast improvement.
Performance was great for an S and you could feel the power was coming from a 2L engine rather than a forced 1.6L. It had a bigger car feel. Hope that makes sense.
As you all know, I'm not a lover of "sports mode"on the Beast. To me it just makes the car "huff and Puff" a bit more, but doesn't make it perform better in the end. The one difference I felt with the S was that the suspension seemed to go much firmer and in the right situation that would be a benefit. It also meant a slightly smoother ride in normal mode than we get from the sports supension on the Beast.
Only comments re exterior looks are that the front end is too long. Loved the orange colour of the test car.

Just my thoughts.

Overall....would I trade in The Beast........Nope. Wait to see the Works and the Clubbie
.

[KenL]

Thanks weefossy.

I agree about "sports" mode. When I had in my previous MINI it just made the car seem less natural to me. The steering felt like it had a brake on and the accelerator delivery was just less progressive not better.

On the armrest I would not worry about that being much of an issue with the hill assist mode.

[Mon the fish]

^^ sounds exactly like the sports mode on our Z4 - bit of a waste of time

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[Crombers]

Overall....would I trade in The Beast........Nope.
.

Just felt all feint at the thought :blink: :Whistle:

[Eddie_JCW]

The only times I don't have Sport mode on is whilst on the motorway with cruise on, when I'm trying to be quiet late at night or when I'm not fussed about going for it.

I do like it, gives it the weight it needs for more control and also means when you need acceleration it's pretty much instant.

[KenL]

I am not that surprised really as Ford make great cars.

However, this is Top Gear and when do they ever talk any sense?

[Gismo]

Initial reports from this side of the pond are that MINI have deliberately sorted out the harsh ride in favour of delivering a great car to match others in its class

[KenL]

Initial reports from this side of the pond are that MINI have deliberately sorted out the harsh ride in favour of delivering a great car to match others in its class

Yes and most reviews also say the handling is at least as good as the R56.

A MINI has lost before to a Fiesta in reviews in the handling department.

[Mon the fish]

The first mini where the Cooper front bumper is nicer than the S

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[mini mad andy]

Yeah I agree but it's funny how over time cars that you don't like can start to look good.


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[Mon the fish]

Another reason to buy the Cooper and not the S...

http://www.motoringfile.com/2014/03/26/confirmed-f56-mini-cooper-s-uses-active-sound-to-enhance-engine-noise/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Motoringfile+%28MotoringFile+ %7C+MINI+News%2C+Reviews+and+Podcast%29

[Mon the fish]

I just don't like the whole principle of a speaker providing fake engine noise. Might as well buy a soundracer!

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[Gismo]

I just don't like the whole principle of a speaker providing fake engine noise. Might as well buy a soundracer!

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[ELFMAN]

I have had 'Active Sound' on all my MINIs - consisting of a decent manifold/downpipe and exhaust system! :thumbs up:

[Craig]

I have had 'Active Sound' on all my MINIs - consisting of a decent manifold/downpipe and exhaust system! :thumbs up:


:thumbs up: :thumbs up: :thumbs up: :thumbs up: :thumbs up:

[mini mad andy]

They should have spent more time on getting rid of the Diesel engine acoustics rather than adding acoustics ( sound maker in the Cooper S ) in the boot.

http://m.whatcar.com/car-news/engine-noise-prompts-new-mini-delivery-delays/1287254


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[ELFMAN]

They should have spent more time on getting rid of the Diesel engine acoustics rather than adding acoustics ( sound maker in the Cooper S ) in the boot.

Agreed. I know there are always 'niggles' with a new model, but this 'sounds' like quite a serious problem which surely should have been sorted at the design and testing stage. A few folks have said that rather than buy now, they would wait for a while until this sort of thing was ironed out - sensible decision, but not good for MINI sales.

Having said that, I still like the new cars - but not quite enough to ditch my R56! :smilewinkgrin:

[Mon the fish]

It's typical of Mini to have issues with a new model - it's happened to nearly all of them so far. Why it's madness to buy an F56 now IMO, wait a few months at least

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[mini mad andy]

Agreed. I know there are always 'niggles' with a new model, but this 'sounds' like quite a serious problem which surely should have been sorted at the design and testing stage. A few folks have said that rather than buy now, they would wait for a while until this sort of thing was ironed out - sensible decision, but not good for MINI sales.

Having said that, I still like the new cars - but not quite enough to ditch my R56! :smilewinkgrin:

Yeah agreed this sounds more serious than a niggle, you do have to question there testing for a problem like this to appear about a week after launch.

I was in the Gyle shopping Centre yesterday and Eastern have a Cooper D sitting in the main walkway, they probably feel it's safer there than using it on the road.


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