R56 JCW power mods and re-maps

[ELFMAN]

this has been moved from the GP thread please carry on with the discussion here
Stoney and the Mod team :thumbs up:



Too many stickers, too few seats, too little power, too big a cost. No thanks. If you consider Evolve are doing warrantied upgrades to a standard S to 270bhp for £2.3k its hard to justify.)

If I factor in the £800 + fitting I've already spent on my Downpipe and Intercooler (say a grand all in for argument's sake), P-Torque could give me around 250bhp for quite a lot less less than a total of £2.3K Alex. I think P-Torque take the S up to 250 (depending on 'Cooler etc) and the JCW up to 270-ish (with its stronger engine internals) - with a commensurate increase in Torque. Power and Torque can of course upset the balance a bit on certain roads/surfaces (which is why I'm still swithering!), but I think the hardware on the GP could have handled a decent power hike without too many problems. That's if you believe MINI are giving an accurate power figure. They might have one eye on Insurance levels etc...

[T5LLC]

<A bit closer to the truth would be to accept that a remapped JCW should see just under 240bhp once mapped>

My JCW Coupe is an example of this. Only a stage 1 map on it... not sure if that helps :lol:

[Stewart]

So the Elf has been played with, wait that came out wrong. I was thinking on some of the over takes on the run coming back it had more power than I thought an S would have. Most ferocious MINI I’ve been in was Mr A’s works over the Dukes as it felt like a rocket and your S felt just as quick.

Does this BHP not get to a limit where the power is lost through the front wheels. I'd hate to think of what a 270bhp Mini drives like as I just have this picture of massive oversteer with all the power.

[Alex from NM]

Oh aye, for the 2.3k you get a bit of kit like. I notice no engine internals or clutch/gearbox mods are included so I would be a bit skeptical about how long the car would last still

Package 1 - 270 bhp and 290 ft/lb torque:


Garret GT28/60RS Ball Bearing Turbo
minicraft S/S de-cat down pipe
minicraft OEM manifold conversion
Elbow and clamps
Oil and water pipes and fittings
minicraft cone air filter with front bumper CAI
Greddy electronic boost controller (in car adjustable)
Alta boost port adapter on map sensor
Custom map on rolling road of OEM ECU

Cost:

Drive in/drive out: £2,325 plus vat

[ELFMAN]

Sorry this has gone so :off topic:, but if you're thinking of remapping the new GP, it is relevant...

Just as a 'Postscript' to the "who's quoting What?" debate, here's the PTorque advert from a recent Modern MINI mag:

Also link to EVOLVE's article Re. the R56 S (not JCW) : http://www.evolveautomotive.com/mini_37/generation-2-r55-r56-r57_749/
They're quoting 240BHP/290 Torque for their 'Stage 4', the 'Stage 5' upgrade adds an Intercooler and presumably gives more power...

So just to let folks know I wasn't imagining the figures!

3761 I can't get this to come out properly... maybe someone can assist? :ragin: :argh:

Anyway, the PTorque ad states S - up to 250BHP/270lbs/ft, JCW - up to 280BHP/300lbs/ft

[KenL]

270 BHP from a 1.6 litre engine seems like fantasy to me! Porsche Cayman 261 BHP, Tuned Focus ST with 2 litre turbo-charged engine, 250 BHP...

If 180 - 190 BHP for the S seems right, which it does to me given that that is only about a 3% measurement error from the "real" figure from MINI, why would "when we look at what they say the JCW is showing as 'standard', it's possibly a different story" seem believable?

Is there some romantic notion that the JCW has some hidden power that MINI is keeping secret? If insurers etc. ever got wind of this, MINI would be "for it". There is no way a reputable company would risk this.

[Mon the fish]

^^ power is nothing without control. Increasing power without first improving the suspension and brakes is foolish IMO.

[Waito]

I've read some good reviews about evolve. Anyone use their maps?

[stoney]

I've read some good reviews about evolve. Anyone use their maps?


nope but i know a few that have used P torque and highly recommend them

[Waito]

Thanks, I'm not sure if p torque do a handset with your standard map though, I'd prefer a handset to flash back if the car ever needed warranty work

[KenL]

Warranty work should not be any issue as long as you don't have an engine, transmission, emission, braking fault.

TLC may be voided as it says (or at least it used to say) it was not available on third party modified cars. Individual dealers may ignore this though.

On the issue of these plugin maps being detectable, do modern cars not record where changes were made to them?

[stoney]

It is highly unlikely that the map will be detected I also know if the dealer flashes you car back to standard then p torque will re flash it with your updated map for free as far as I have been told :)

You could always try etune they have mapped lots of minis and are in Falkirk

[Waito]

Thanks for the replies. Might give them and ring and find out about prices and how they go about mapping the car etc

[stoney]

Thanks for the replies. Might give them and ring and find out about prices and how they go about mapping the car etc

Worth a phone

[T5LLC]

Thanks for the replies. Might give them and ring and find out about prices and how they go about mapping the car etc

eTune mapped my Mini. No BMW issues as has been in since mapping :) car runs great now :)

[Waito]

eTune mapped my Mini. No BMW issues as has been in since mapping :) car runs great now :)

What sort of power is the car now? Thanks

[T5LLC]

Running just over 250bhp now

[Stewart]

250 BHP :thud:

Nice 40 BHP jump there, it must be bloody rapid now and its not like it was slow to begin with. Did you find out what it was on to begin with??? Some say the Mini figures are down in the official figures to that of actual for insurance and to be more tax friendly. Should be hitting 208BHP standard if i read things right.

[T5LLC]

It was over 208 standard as noted with BMW. I made 36bhp with my map :)

[CiderFex]

I know I’m dragging up a long dead thread here but all of the talk of various bhp figures lacks one very basic bit of information.
Example: Petrol Ped (Peter Greaves) has just had the full Manic Stage 2 (down pipe, intercooler etc etc) fitted at Lohen.
His base figure bhp was 238bhp which no-one could actually believe. He posted his dyno charts, which proved him to be correct, and after the job was complete he was getting 270bhp.
This got me thinking about how on Earth he was running at 239bhp in a standard R59 JCW !!!
Eventually I sussed it out.
Lohen always use the flywheel bhp figures, and not wheel bhp, as do most other tuners and manufacturers.
It’s a nice ploy to quote larger figures in their marketing.
The original Lohen quote of 238bhp would equate to 202bhp at the wheels which isn’t too bad compared to the original MINI quoted figure of 211bhp when new.
270bhp at the fly equates to roughly 230bhp at the wheels.
The moral is always ask if the bhp figures quoted are at the flywheel or at the wheels.
You could be spending your pennies on a lot less than you think.
So in retrospect there’s no point in blowing £1800 on a full Stage 2 setup, with extras, to gain a dynoed 28wbhp, when a Stage 1 will gain you anything up to 35wbhp for about £1400 less.
I believe that this is a classic example of do your research well before blowing your cash.
Yes, I have been looking into it...


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Craig]

I was led to believe the figures by mini were at the flywheel?

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[CiderFex]

I was led to believe the figures by mini were at the flywheel?

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It depends all depends on who is quoting the figures. Some use the fly figures, some use bhp figures instead.
If my Roadster’s official MINI bhp of 211 was at the fly it would mean that it’s only actually got roughly 183 wbhp.
The case of Petrol Ped above is a classic example.
I knew something was wrong as soon as he said that his standard Roadster had hit 238bhp.
Once I looked at the figures it then dawned on me why he’d “gained” 27bhp over the last 5 years.
If MINI did use fbhp figures how on Earth did PP’s Roadster gain 53 bhp over the years ?
[emoji15]


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Craig]

Can't answer that, what I can say is my R55 JCW made 226 at the fly at SOS in Falkirk with a bigger Intercooler and sport cat downpipe.... Can't really comment on lohens figures, however cant see why they would fabricate numbers...?

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[CiderFex]

Can't answer that, what I can say is my R55 JCW made 226 at the fly at SOS in Falkirk with a bigger Intercooler and sport cat downpipe.... Can't really comment on lohens figures, however cant see why they would fabricate numbers...?

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

LOHEN aren’t fabricating their figures, they are just using one set of figures against another to suck people in.
The difference between fly and wheel bhp is an average of 15%.
If your 226 is at the fly that indicates that it’ll be around 196wbhp which seems low.
Are you sure they quoted fbhp and not wbhp Craig ?



Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Craig]

Yep, as other figures for other cars were correct based on numbers and expectations

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[CiderFex]

Yep, as other figures for other cars were correct based on numbers and expectations

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

I’ve just found that bhp is normally the fly reading and wbhp is at the wheels.
MINI must use the wbhp figures in their official specs. There is no other explanation for how PP gained so much on a standard car from its officially quoted figures.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Craig]

My car must be seriously fecked then.... As if its supposed to be making 218bhp from factory and had those mods and a remap, should be about 230bhp anyway at the wheels.... And its only showing 226 at the fly..

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[CiderFex]

My car must be seriously fecked then.... As if its supposed to be making 218bhp from factory and had those mods and a remap, should be about 230bhp anyway at the wheels.... And its only showing 226 at the fly..

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Honestly Craig the only explanation I can see to explain that is they must’ve used the incorrect figures.
If you only had 196 wbhp I’m positive that you’d notice the lack of ooomph.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[Craig]

Nope they were definately posting flywheel figures... That is why I believe mini quote flywheel figures as R53's were consistently showing around the 165/170 bhp on the RR.

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[CiderFex]

Nope they were definately posting flywheel figures... That is why I believe mini quote flywheel figures as R53's were consistently showing around the 165/170 bhp on the RR.

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I just don’t know then.
[emoji30]


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[MINI William]

MINI use along with most manufacturers the BHP figure at the flywheel before transmission loss.

[CiderFex]

MINI use along with most manufacturers the BHP figure at the flywheel before transmission loss.

So does this mean that MINI quoted figure of 211bhp for Rocky would equate to roughly 183whp ?
This is why I posted because I find it all VERY confusing.
It makes me even confused now regarding PP’s original dyno figures !!!

I just give up...
[emoji30]


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[CiderFex]

From all of the above all that I can really work out is that Lohens dyno must so inaccurate that’s it just can’t be legal !!!
[emoji15]


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

[M600-RKJ]

Lohen figures are consistently larger they use a big conversion rate to go from the dyno to Bhp.

If memory serves they use a conversion of 18% because they say that the minis have enormous drive train loss.

My standard S with a decat ran 202bhp on their dyno

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[M600-RKJ]

For comparison after going stage 2 at 1320 my highest power figure was 232whp and the car felt like a rocket ship compared to what it drove in like

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[MINI William]

So does this mean that MINI quoted figure of 211bhp for Rocky would equate to roughly 183whp ?
This is why I posted because I find it all VERY confusing.
It makes me even confused now regarding PP’s original dyno figures !!!

I just give up...
[emoji30]


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.

It does Pete. You’ve got to watch with tuners as some will talk about power at the wheels and others at the fly.

[CiderFex]

In my own personal opinion if people are selling goods ie: a tune or power mods for a car the dynos that they use should be tested by Trading Standards to make sure they are accurate and all working to the exact same scale.


Sent from Yorkshire wi an hint o’ sarcasm.