Oh dear...

[zimbo]

**WARNING**

Some of you ARE NOT going to like whats in the following link about the new minis :frown: I can think of one person in particular...

http://www.motoringfile.com/2012/09/07/the-2014-f56-all-you-need-to-know/#more-25624

[MINIme:)]

crikey there's a lot going on in that article! :dizzy:

[ELFMAN]

My head hurts, partially because of the amount of info and partially because I couldn't get the annoying 'ageing college boy' accent out of my mind while I was reading it. He seemed quite happy, but from the tone of the article I'd doubt if there was a discernable amount of petrol in his veins... so if he's chuffed with the 'new direction' MINI seems to be taking, I think there might be cause for concern for genuine 'Old Skool' MINI enthusiasts.

The steady march towards making the MINI Hatch more 'user friendly' and making decisions on size etc on the fact that fat Americans won't fit in it is the death-knell for the MINI as we know and love it. The whole ethos of the MINI hatch (in all its forms), as I've said till I'm blue in the face, is that it was conceived as a Driver's car, not to be 'practical', not to be your run-of-the mill shopping trolley, to be an equal balance of Style and Substance in a quality, fun-filled package. The constant dilution of the MINI's DNA is like starting with an organic product and making it 'better' by introducing genetic modification. Like producing a smooth, packageable potato. OK, the spud we love used to be lumpier, but by God it tasted better!

To me, this all has a tedious inevitability. Make a great product, find it's popular, make more, sell more, adapt it to reach an even wider market - and a few years down the line it's lost a quite bit of the 'something' which made it special in the first place. But by that time only a few die-hards remember 'the good old days' and everybody else is happy with their lot, so it doesn't matter. It's a shame, but that's 'progress' for you.

It'll probably still be a pretty good drive and will keep folks in a job at Oxford, which is a big plus point too. It's a shame though, that the the next generation MINI hatch might very well be compromised by making it more like the competition it used to trounce by being different.

[Stewart]

I'm actually scared to look! My wee car has just covered over 30K and feels as nice to drive as it has always. I keep putting off changing up to an S or SD just really for a change. I decided actually a near new Cooper would do me again if the new one was nice.

Time to go a read I guess!!!!! If it does not hark MINI to me then I'll have to keep an eye out for one of the last R56's if I'm keeping with MINI. By the sounds of the big Speedo is gone ---- Noooooooooo..............

Update: well had a good read, God knows is all I came away with! The Centre speedo is no longer a speedo ( ok I've never seen it as that anyway but still liked it harking back to the Classic) I guess its a just have to wait and see, I don't like how Retro has been dropped for futuristic:frown: Square air vents are not welcome, so it fit in with every other car out there...Nice one!

I've always thought I'd either buy one more MINI R56 and try and run it as long as I could if I did not like the new one. After all if it starts to look less MINI more One series I'm off....

My biggest fear is one day I'd go into a dealers and there would be a cardboard cut out saying welcome to the new MINI with this parked beside it.:frown:

http://static.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpress.co.uk/files/styles/article_main_image/public/images/car_photo_443362.jpg

[ELFMAN]

I'm thinking if you want to hang on to the 'MINI Feeling' hatch-wise, before corporate conformity takes hold, keep/grab yourself an R56, or go mad and invest in a new GP. Or maybe just search about for a good Gen 1 COOPER or S, or Gen 1 GP...

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but what we have now may be the 'swansong' of what we hold most dear.

[KenL]

Why are people writing off the next gen having not seen it, driven it or even read an article by someone who has? I suppose it is natural, it was the same when the R56 was coming out.

If it looks like the Countryman I won't be too happy but I think the technological advances and the fact it shares the same platform as a BMW are good things.

I am looking forward to it and will hope to be able to consider one as my next car.

[T5LLC]

not a fan of the 3 cylinder engines- they sounds horrible but maybe this one being a bit advanced may not sound as bad. I understand what KenL is saying about just waiting to see it but has Mini not heard of ''if it aint broke dont fix it'' the Gen 2 wasnt a HUGE change from the Gen 1 however the Gen 3 is pretty drastic in my eyes.. Just have to wait and see I guess I mean I was never sure of the Coupe concepts and now I have one....

[KenL]

I have a friend who works for Ford. He says their new 3 cylinder 1 litre turbo engine is good and doesn't sound as you would expect a 3 cylinder to sound. We had an Aygo witha 3 cylinder engine and it did sound horrible, almost out of tune. I would expect (hope) the new BMW developed engine to be good.

- - - Updated - - -

This review of Ford's 3 cylinder 1 litre engine may point to what the BMW unit may be like.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/ford/focus/first-drives/ford-focus-1.0-ecoboost-zetec

[ELFMAN]

Why are people writing off the next gen having not seen it, driven it or even read an article by someone who has? I suppose it is natural, it was the same when the R56 was coming out.
If it looks like the Countryman I won't be too happy but I think the technological advances and the fact it shares the same platform as a BMW are good things. I am looking forward to it and will hope to be able to consider one as my next car.

I know ken, it's terrible isn't it? All the 'Luddites' come out of the woodwork every time there's any change... we're so predictable :ragin: :smilewinkgrin:

I'm wondering though, why it's "good thing" if it shares the same platform as a BMW? Why not just buy a 1 Series? "Technological Advances" don't automatically translate into a better driving experience, often introducing a layer of detachment between the car and the driver, and many would argue that the Gen 2 was slightly less 'focussed' as a driving machine than the Gen 1 cars. I'm not "writing it off" completely, my worry is that I think there will be a much bigger 'gap' between the R56 and the F Series than there was between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 MINIs, and anything which lessens that 'unique' MINI feeling from the driving seat is a negative in my view.

What we might end up with (and if it suits you, that's fine) is something which LOOKS like a MINI, but under the skin is a 1 Series BMW. If that IS the case, my next major car purchase (if I ever part with my current MINI) might well be a 1960's MGC or a Lotus Elise.

[KenL]

I'm wondering though, why it's "good thing" if it shares the same platform as a BMW? Why not just buy a 1 Series? My thinking was that it was a good thing that there would be more money devoted to its development rather than it being purely developed (with more limited resources) for MINI.


Why not just buy a 1 Series? People like the MINI brand and image. The 1-series looks are not for everyone, it is also a bigger car and RWD at present. If you are talking about the FWD 1-series, again you might not like the looks (or image), it is also likely to be more expensive than a ONE or Cooper.


"Technological Advances" don't automatically translate into a better driving experience, often introducing a layer of detachment between the car and the driver, and many would argue that the Gen 2 was slightly less 'focussed' as a driving machine than the Gen 1 cars.
Technological advances should mean better emissions and fuel economy, one thing I am right behind. For me the R56 is a far superior car than the R50, still great to drive and far better to live with day to day, also cheaper to run. If the F56 moves this on further then that sounds good to me.

What we might end up with (and if it suits you, that's fine) is something which LOOKS like a MINI, but under the skin is a 1 Series BMW. If that IS the case, my next major car purchase (if I ever part with my current MINI) might well be a 1960's MGC or a Lotus Elise. If the FWD BMW is a great car, there is nothing wrong with the F56 using the same bits and pieces. I would expect the set up will be different though. MINI are well aware that this brand is bought, at least in part, by car enthusiasts. Why else would they bother making the likes of the GP? There won't be that much profit in these cars given the limited numbers.

[ELFMAN]

KEN: My thinking was that it was a good thing that there would be more money devoted to its development rather than it being purely developed (with more limited resources) for MINI.

MINI was always seen (by BMW itself) as a 'stand alone' brand, hence the separate showrooms etc. I think initially they were hoping it would be a 'stepping stone' to the BMW range, but it was so good it has become a range in itself. Purity/Uniqueness was/is the MINI's USP. You could of course argue that the MINI's rear 'Z' axle setup (which was actually adapted from BMW's rear drivers) means that MINI always had a bit of 'proper' BMW in its underpinnings, but that was utilised to improve the handling (at the expense of boot space) over the usual 'beam' type rear ends found in most other hatches, and that's certainly not the same as 'Platform Sharing', which is 'driven' by economies of scale rather than by driving itself.

KEN: People like the MINI brand and image. The 1-series looks are not for everyone, it is also a bigger car and RWD at present. If you are talking about the FWD 1-series, again you might not like the looks (or image), it is also likely to be more expensive than a ONE or Cooper.

"MINI Brand and Image" - not necessarily the dynamics of the car on the road. So it can be a FWD 1 Series under the skin, as long as the skin LOOKS like a MINI? 'People' like ME like the way my MINI feels and drives. I couldn't give a stuff about the Brand and Image. What IS the MINI Image these days anyway? Wasn't 'Retro-Cute' nicked by the new Fiat 500?

KEN: Technological advances should mean better emissions and fuel economy, one thing I am right behind. For me the R56 is a far superior car than the R50, still great to drive and far better to live with day to day, also cheaper to run. If the F56 moves this on further then that sounds good to me.

In my opinion, the R56 (particularly in Diesel guise) is just fine for emissions and economy, particularly compared to the R53. This is all well and good, but if you take it to extremes, the version after the 'F' will have bleedin' pedals and a chain to make it go!

KEN: If the FWD BMW is a great car, there is nothing wrong with the F56 using the same bits and pieces. I would expect the set up will be different though. MINI are well aware that this brand is bought, at least in part, by car enthusiasts. Why else would they bother making the likes of the GP? There won't be that much profit in these cars given the limited numbers.

They're 'bothering' to make the GP, as far as I know, because it's the 'run-out' model of the outgoing R56 range - much in the same way as the Gen 1 GP was for the R53, not because they're showing any great commitment to 'car enthusiasts'. The set up will probably be different though - they'll make it much stiffer than the wee beemer!

As you might have guessed, I view the whole 'platform sharing' enterprise with a highly cynical eye. Look what happened to the 'old' New Beetle - it was a Golf 'platform' wearing a party frock, and it was rubbish. I don't think BMW/MINI could mess it up to that extent, but I think we'll eventually end up with a bigger, less driver-focussed 'MINI' hatch, which will pander to buyers more interested in looks and convenience than performance. If I wanted more convenience with great performance, why wouldn't I just buy a Megane or Clio Cup from RenaultSport?

If you remove the essential 'MINI-ness' from the MINI, what's left? :frown: ... apart from 'ness' of course.

[KenL]

The Beetle was rubbish as it was built on the Golf mkiv platform, which was also rubbish.