Over And Out

[Gismo]

Well, the Scotland performance today at home against a team ranked lower than us just goes to show that we have reached an all time low.

Perhaps now the folks who wanted one of Scotland's feeder teams to be relegated to the lowest division possible will understand the impact that has on the national team.

And before anyone jumps on the bandwagon I fully support that Rangers should have been demoted as per the rules.

Scotland will not qualify for the world cup

[Stewart]

Lost interest in Scotland as football team for the very reason that our national game is run by an old boys Club who bend and make up new rules being the SFA. They can impose sanctions that have been found to be against the law in a court of law and would even consider that they have blackmailed to get there own way. I’ll have nothing to do with an Organisation run in such a fashion. They are simply a laughing stock and would be ashamed to follow anything they may claim to take credit for. I would love to see the Scottish Team qualify for the fans and the nation but only after everyone of the charlatans at Hampden is removed.

Rant over ;)
With Rangers we now have lost an avenue for which Scotland players can be produced/developed at a higher level in the short term. In the long term it may be benefit with Rangers youth players having to be brought through to the first team and Rangers being more dependant on home grown players over the next few season with the illegal transfer embargo that has been brought upon the business. ( A bit like telling a painting business yes you can paint but you just cant buy paint) when an organisation restricts something that is fundamental to your business model to survive and take away one of the most important things that produces a product that sells its illegal and found so in a court of law.

So rightly or wrongly I have no time for anything to do with the SFA.


Although that could be a bit heavy for a MINI forum ;)

[Gismo]

Well put

[EcosseGP]

Yeah I agree with the not qualify for the world cup bit and things will not change as long as "Avril" is in charge. I don't think it was a poor performance all round but some players looked well sort of match fitness and to some it's only the start of the season. In order for us to qualify for a major final we have to win games at home and sadly that just never seems to happen.

I'm not a fan of the SFA and have had my fair share of run ins with them over the years .. but not sure that Scottish football is having the adverse effect on the national team as there was only Forrest on the park that played for a Scottish team ..

The team will never do anything with the current manager .. And to me it's says it all that our right back gets man of the match ..

No wonder so many foot soldiers get hammered before a game I think it must numb the pain sometimes of watching the lack lustre performance on the park ..

Wonder what will happen on Tuesday ..

[Tam1314]

Kenny Miller, nuff said

[Mini Ecosse]

Wonder what will happen on Tuesday ..

Hmmmmmm taking photos at match on Tuesday, what goal should I stand behind lol

[Tam1314]

Wow I can't believe that you honestly think that TTFKAR being in the 3rd Division has an adverse affect on the national team. Name me one world class Scottish player that Murray park has produced.
TTFKAR and celtic are to blame for the way out national team is now. When they started bringing in expensive foreigners in their failed attempts at European glory all hope of young Scottish talent being given time to be nurtured into good footballers went out the window.
TTFKAR should have been refused entry into the SFL and the transfer embargo should have begun from the day they went into administration.
What an absolute disgrace that they can sign Wallace from hearts but not pay for him and then go back and buy templeton.

[Gismo]

World class players from Rangers, are you joking, name me one world class current Scottish player.

What Rangers and Celtic did was enhance potential players abilities by having the much needed foreign players in the team.

If you think that Scottish players can come through the ranks and be a footballing force in the world arena then your views are as clouded as your political ones :smilewinkgrin:

[Stewart]

Tam thankfully we all know your pulling our legs with the Rangers ;) By that measure Celtic became a new club in 1994 when they reformed under a new Company as registered in Company house.

http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/club/rangers-fc/

Chester City liquidated 2010, Middlesbrough F.C. liquidated 1986, Charlton Athletic F.C.1984. in the case of Middlesbrough it was reformed under Middlesbrough Football & Athletic Company (1986) Ltd carrying over its full honours and history like all the rest. Napoli went Bust and liquidated Company changed from Associazione Calcio Napoli to Società Sportiva Calcio Napoli carrying over full History backed by Uefa and fifa recognising that the new company had full rights as previous clubs that have liquidated to there European Cup honour in 1988-89 and domestic honours since 1926.
Parma entered into liquidation in 1968 and where reformed Parma Football Club (formerly Parma As Parma sociazione Calcio) It reformed again in June 2004 and hold all honours from 1913. Florentina was promptly re-established in August 2002 after liquidation as Associazione Calcio Fiorentina e Florentia Viola carry over full honours in the Italian championship 55-56 & 60-61 and Uefa Cup winners cup in 60-61
You would think liquidation of football clubs was a new thing, well its not and English clubs are bordering on liquidation with so many in Negative equity to a large percentage of there worth and cash generating powers. Rangers financial company may change like other clubs have done but the main thing is no matter what this name is it like others will be commonly known as and in the case of the Gers that’s Rangers FC and hold full Honours and History or has the whole of European football changed the rules for Just Rangers, yeah thought not!

Rangers were told they have to pay all Debt to Scottish clubs and this was done last month. Hearts have received £300,000 owed for the transfer of Lee Wallace to Ibrox last summer, which was outstanding since July this year. A further instalment of £500,000 will fall due in July 2013. This was agreed was in fact the case and Hearts are more than happy that Rangers FC are making good on past deals between the Clubs. Dundee United £65,981 and Celtic £40,337 as well as fines all paid.

This is where I come for my MINI Fix, if I want to go and talk Football at a sensible level with good banter I go some place else but glad to fill you in.

Back on Topic. Look at that Scotland side and how many players that have passed through Murray park???? Enough said!

MaGregor
Hutton
Webster
Naismith
Adam
Miller
McCormack


We are RANGERS,
We do not forgive,
We do not forget,
Expect us!:smilewinkgrin:

[Crombers]

Ah huh ............ Sevco Land, the 'giving' just keeps on going :hand:

So much still to run in this saga & so many shampooting themselves as we prepare to be told the truth :moonie:

& as for your sign off statement Stuart ....... 'what utter P1SH!!!!' :yawn:

[Tam1314]

Passed through and produced are two very different things

I will give you MacGregor as a pass through tho.

No one else you mentioned there has proven themselves on the world stage.

Do you remember the great players of the sixties and seventies, and even into the early 80's. They didn't have massive wages, but a desire to play football
It all went tits up when rangers bankrupted themselves by buying in washed up foreigners who were only in it for the quick buck they could make towards the end if their careers.

[Tam1314]

Oh and Stewart you are not rangers, you are either The Rangers or Sevco. The old rangers are soon to be liquidated.

Unless of course you want to take on all the previous debt and pay yer taxes like most other decent businesses

[Stewart]

I'll take the official Uefa/FIFA line on that mate and actual people that know what there talking about and know about actual law.


Everyone knows Rangers are like every other club that has been through the same, the same club, a holding Company does make a club. Obviously it saddens me that Rangers now showing massive backing and being as reported all over the media the best supported Home match in the country of near 50K crowds for a third division match not to mention beating all the SPL crowds put together on a given Saturday there that reinforced just what pulling power Rangers have and will always have. But also points at the sad state the other clubs are in and its not healthy for or game to have such low backing from there fans in the SPL. That’s the same Club branding that is copy righted entwined with the Clubs great history that is shown every week when the lads pull on their shirts. Every second of every match that the lads play under that badge fills those very fans with pride as it should do as they have been battered but not out and back fighting and more to the point playing legally on the pitch. You cant distort fact although some may try laughably and I'm sure a good few enjoy how painful it must be for some sadly to see a team other than there own back playing when so much looked so black.

I’ll enjoy my teams resurgence and success knowing my view is backed up by fact, Rangers is still Rangers FC funny there seem to be some delusional fans left but that more to do with everything that is wrong with our game. Right at the heart of Scottish football is the bitterness that has held back our game that can embarrass not only the individual but a nation.

I’ll leave at that one side of the argument if you can even call it that being so one sided is backed up and proven well to the other that offers nothing. Enjoyable to converse all the same and may we look forward to our clubs successes. But its a MINI Forum and that the way I like it so I'll not be reading in here again.:thumbs up:

Hay Mr C is alive and well:thumbs up: What happened at Flag day? Was that not a shocking crowd.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=391178687622163&set=a.337506242989408.79725.282935265113173&type=1&ref=nf
:smilewinkgrin:

http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2012-03-13/the-rise-fall-and-rise-again-of-naples-fc
Società Sportiva Calcio Napoli, commonly referred to as Napoli, is a professional Italian football club based in Naples and founded in 1926 [2] (refounded in 2004). The club has spent most of its history in Serie A,[3] where it currently plays its 2012–13 season. Napoli has won Serie A twice, in 1986–87 and 1989–90.[2] They have also won the Italian Cup four times and the Italian Super Cup, and on the European stage have won the UEFA Cup in 1988–89. Napoli is also the most successful club in Southern Italy and the fourth most supported football club in Italy.

Rangers Football Club is a football club based in Glasgow, Scotland that plays in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League. Their home ground is the 51,082-capacity all-seater Ibrox Stadium in the south-west of the city.
Founded: 1872
Manager: Ally McCoist
Ground: Ibrox Stadium
League: Scottish Football League Third Division
Training ground: Murray Park
Mascot: Broxi Bear

[Tam1314]

Delusional

[Tam1314]

And the only reason rangers and celtic get such large crowds is because of the sectarian bigoted bile that is rife in Scotland.
Have you ever seen an orange walk, one of the most disgusting events that you could ever witness.

But you are right, this is a mini site. So let's leave the bigoted sectarian tax cheating ******* calling for another forum and another day.

[ELFMAN]

"The Beautiful Game" Ladies and Gentlemen... :bow: :frown:

[Craig]

I think this is a topic best left for other sites.

I'm not a football man (as others will know) so have no time for this circus that goes with the Scottish clubs.

Safe to say I hope this thread dies as I know the hatred amongst fans won't :frown:

[Gismo]

The thread didn't go the way i expected, i was merely highlighting the lack of Scottish talent, but others reckoned it was time to get on the old firm wagon.
With regards to tonight's game, hmm, well, let's see how that pans out

[ELFMAN]

Well said Craig! :thumbs up::soccer: Pies or Pistols at half-time lads?

These days I'd rather be at a gig or a motorsport event, but I do still enjoy watching a good game of footy on telly with my Dad and I have a sense of humour about it - after all, I was a Motherwell Supporter... :smilewinkgrin:

There's always room for a "Bit of Banter" on NMS, but this thread was in danger of straying into the offside trap of "Bitter Banter" :frown:

[Craig]

Fingers crossed for tonight ;)

[Gismo]

Another stunning failure, imagine the score when we play away from home

[Big Gordy]

At least we didn't lose :rolleyes:

[Gismo]

At least we didn't lose :rolleyes:Sadly Gordy we have to win these games to get the much needed points.
It's gonna be difficult to qualify now

[Mon the fish]

I'm booked up for all the away qualifiers, but I do wonder why me and the rest of our TA bother sometimes. Levein oot, he's a muppet well out of his depth. And as for rangers in the 3rd division - this will help Scotland in the short term, as McGregor, Naismith et al are now playing in better leagues at a higher level. In the long term, who knows. It may encourage them to play more Scottish players.

[Crombers]

Hay Mr C is alive and well:thumbs up:

C'mon folks I have to have my 2p here, I've kept 'shtoom' on this whole affair from day (14/02/12) one but when it's up for debate then I'm in the room :thankyou:

A few of 'facts' for digestion :

Only Celtic's stock exchange status was altered, no name change or new company (stewartyouareclutchingatstrawsmyfriend)
The present-day Celtic plc - has existed since 1888, and was incorporated as a company in 1897, under the name "The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Limited". It changed its name to "Celtic plc" in 1994, when it became a public limited company, in "one of the most successful stock market flotations in British financial history" (willbewatchingchicosattemptwithinterest)
The bottom line is that Celtic was not liquidated, we carry the same company number and our business continued to trade, there was no break in that, just a name change. Changing from Celtic FC Ltd to Celtic FC Plc is not changing its name. "Ltd" states that it is a Private Limited Co. and "PLC" that it is a Public Limited Co.
Celtic did not create a Phoenix club, Fergus McCann floated Celtic on the stock exchange so Celtic football and Athletic Club became Celtic PLC. McCann took control of 51% of the club and acted as a guarantor to Celtic debt in 1994.

If a football club is liquidated it’s finished. Continuity with
its history and records ends. This is not the same as a football company changing its name.
Celtic was established as a sporting club at a meeting in a church hall in November 1887,
in many ways, no different than a million other football, karate and badminton clubs.
It subsequently registered with the SFA in 1888. In April 1897 it incorporated as a private
limited company, registering as The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Ltd at Companies
House. It was the 3487th company to register in Scotland and was given the incorporation
number SC003487.
In 1994 the company became a public limited company and changed its name to Celtic PLC but, of course, remained the same company, with the same incorporation number and retained the same registration with the SFA. You can check our corporate history, from incorporation in 1879, to name change in 1994 to our most recent annual return, dated 31 December 2011 (or relevant year), at Companies House.

Oh & just to round things off a 'readable' article in today's Herald , Stewart please at least read it :

Does Green actually buy this stuff? Let's take a look

For someone who claimed the Scottish Premier League was a really bad idea a few weeks ago, I found myself surprised that I felt the strong urge to defend my former organisation in the face of the bombast from Charles Green.

I truly hope by the time that this is read, someone officially representing the SPL will have done likewise. I ask myself, does Green actually buy this stuff? Let's take a look:

Claim 1 Rangers ceased to be subject to the SPL's rules when they were ejected from their league.

Fact Rangers oldco was not ejected from the SPL. The fact that Rangers went into liquidation automatically expelled them from the league. The SPL shareholders then decided not to make an exception and let them back in. Two very different things.

Claim 2 The outcome of the SPL's process will have no legal effect.

Fact What the SPL are deciding upon is whether their tournament and their trophy was assigned to the correct club in the years in question.

The SPL have every right to examine whether participants in their competition behaved within the rules. And if they find they haven't, they can apply their rule book as recourse. More Green nonsense.

I do, however, agree with him that "whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL". Indeed. But the SPL should be proud of that, and not hide behind the Law Lords.

The SPL are examining the conduct of the participants in their competition well before Rangers went into liquidation, in particular the conduct of the club then owned by Sir David Murray, with the club secretary role (in charge of those player registrations) held by Campbell Ogilvie (whatever happened to him?). Charles Green and Sevco have nothing to do with this. Whatsoever.

Claim 3 The new owners purchased all the business and assets of Rangers, including titles and trophies.

Fact Green said on June 2012 that if his CVA proposal was to fail (which it did) and Rangers were to be liquidated (which they are), "the history, the tradition, everything that's great about this club is swept aside".

Therefore he admits he has not purchased titles and trophies. Sevco has no titles and trophies.

By the way, Charles, I would not provoke commentators like me to dig this up, because what you said is not what the Rangers fans want to hear now, as you now correctly realise. Let it lie, Charlie, let it lie.

So, even one with a leaning towards Govan would argue that, under the most superficial scrutiny, Green's attack is less than robust. But sometimes you have to chuck a dog a bone. So, to be fair, Charlie is right with his complaint on the SPL's lack of consistency,

Green states: "The SPL took part in discussions regarding the new company's league status, where 'the EBT issue' would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership.

"We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full-blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would."

Sadly this falls into the general shambles of the management of the affair by the SFA/SPL. I made my own view clear on the leadership of both bodies in the summer. But I cannot see how the credibility of the current process on a simple point of law over false registration of players with Employee Benefit Trusts (being handled by independent top QCs) can be derailed by claims that the prosecutor behaved incoherently months earlier.

Good debating point, Charles, but it's not enough. Instead, all of us who love the game and who hold true sporting values in our hearts have a simple question: Did Rangers oldco gain unfair advantage by registering players on a basis where their full employment conditions were not declared to the SPL/SFA?

In my mind the answer is undoubtedly 'yes'. But let's not forget the lessons of Versailles: bloodlust rebounds.

The SPL enquiry punishment doesn't arouse great passion in me. And it shouldn't either for Celtic fans. For them I'd argue the victory is in the fact that their greatest rival died.

The 125-year long struggle ended with the collapse of the adversary. The war was won. Achilles vanquished Hector.

In closing, from Mark Anthony onwards history tells us that well-crafted oratory can influence the mob.

While Charles Green is no great speaker or statesman, I must admit, he is no dummy. And there is no doubt that his audience is the mob, whose money and favour he needs in order to exit the Rangers investment project with a financial return.

Stoking up hatred has always energised "the base", another example of which we saw in the Republican convention in these days.

Well done, Charles. Initial Public Offering of shares here we come.

For Scottish football, the days of enlightenment around the Tommy Burns funeral are long gone, and I fear the worst.



Celtic Football Club : a Club for all people, regardless of gender, age, religion, race or ability.”

[Gismo]

But this thread was meant solely for the terrible Scotland team results.

It's in off topic and banter so really anything goes, but, I'll not air my opinions of the state of the Scottish game again.

[N16SHP]

But this thread was meant solely for the terrible Scotland team results.

It's in off topic and banter so really anything goes, but, I'll not air my opinions of the state of the Scottish game again.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, my wife (not a football fan) summed up an SPL game recently between Aberdeen and Celtic. "Who is playing? Is it Sunday league teams as they are just hoofing the ball about, they don't look very skillful or look like they know what they are doing." I couldn't help but agree with her when watching the match on Tuesday night and thinking the national team is the same...:idunno:

[weefossy]

As a Jambo I'll make no comment on "Old Firm " feuds, but I hate to think what can of worms will be opened when "The Lithuanian Mafia" finally get out of Gorgie. That is a time bomb waiting to happen, which will probably only be solved by a "Newco".

[Crombers]

But this thread was meant solely for the terrible Scotland team results.

It's in off topic and banter so really anything goes, but, I'll not air my opinions of the state of the Scottish game again.

Ok Scotland it is then but you did mention the strength in depth with regard to The Rangers

Can't believe that the whole subject matter hasn't been discussed/debated as yet on this site but then again 'too many toys' would have been up in the air at the same time

[Gismo]

Correct, I did mention that one of the feeder teams no longer existed, but I certainly didn't need a history lesson on either of the old firm.

As it is, how many actual players are playing for Scottish teams, either now or even recently? Perhaps 1 or 2, surely that's not acceptable and shows a total lack of infrastructure within our country.

[Mon the fish]

Correct, I did mention that one of the feeder teams no longer existed, but I certainly didn't need a history lesson on either of the old firm.

As it is, how many actual players are playing for Scottish teams, either now or even recently? Perhaps 1 or 2, surely that's not acceptable and shows a total lack of infrastructure within our country.

To an extent, but our country is small. Perhaps we are producing/finding players who are at a higher level (i.e. Premiership)?

After all, everyone is raving about Belgium, who will beat us easily. Only 2 of their players play in their home league.

If Scottish players are good enough to leave Scotland and play for bigger teams, it can only be good for the national team.

[Tam1314]

For me personally, it all went wrong for Scotland when the old firm started to buy in foreigners and pay them extortionate wages(and as we have seen, some of them had two contracts)

The habit of bringing through young scots was killed. The other teams at that time then had to try and buy in foreigners in a vain attempt to try and keep up with the old firm.
Disaster !!!

[weefossy]

IMHO it all broke down during the teachers strike when teachers refused to do all the extra activities they ran after school. Not debating whether they were right or wrong, but prior to the strike, school football was the lifeblood of the Scottish game. In our school team, 5 of the first 11 went professional at 16. Those that didn't make it at that stage went on to play junior football to a reasonable level. After the strike that "supply chain" never recovered and a proper replacement "accademy" has never emerged.

[Crombers]

For me personally, it all went wrong for Scotland when the old firm started to buy in foreigners and pay them extortionate wages(and as we have seen, some of them had two contracts)

The habit of bringing through young scots was killed. The other teams at that time then had to try and buy in foreigners in a vain attempt to try and keep up with the old firm.
Disaster !!!

Thinking 1986 & one 'ONE' team started the whole bandwagon as a result of English teams being banned from European competitions

How 'they' paid for it ............... read 14/02/12

Nuff said