GP 2 Revealed at last...

[Burple]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-mini-john-cooper-works-gp-revealed


only 215bhp? hmm... Have to say it looks pretty nice in that colour of grey! :cool:
Loving the interior as well..

[Mon the fish]

Coilovers! At last! Running some amount of rear negative camber though. And still no fixed buckets...

[N16SHP]

Aside from the power issue which I think we've all more than covered, I really do like the actual look of the thing. I would go against the grain and ditch the alloys straight away and endure the ear-ache of modding something that should be standard and so on. And you a spot on about the interior Euan, looks like a pretty sweet place to be if you ask me!

[Gismo]

Am liking that :thumbs up:

[ELFMAN]

First impressions on seeing the 'new' clearer photos? It certainly looks a bit nicer, particularly the colour, which is far more striking than the original rather dull PR efforts, and as I said before, the suspension, brakes and the aerodynamics (undertray, diffuser, wing etc) are a decent step-up from the 'normal' JCW.

HOWEVER (here he goes...)

'Only' 215BHP? Surely this must be an 'understated' figure from MINI. I know power isn't everything, but it's not much more than the JCW, when the above upgrades could clearly handle more quite comfortably. Maybe they'll offer an official 'Stage 1' type upgrade at some point - although by that time I'll bet most GP owners will have been to P-Torque for a remap... I know I would!

Despite the seat-delete etc, the Interior is hardly as 'track-biased' as the rest of the spec would suggest, so I can't say I agree with the lads on that one (is the leather dash standard? If so it's quite nice, but more 'inspired by Goodwood' than proper 'Race Stylee'). The Recaros look a bit on the 'plump' side for a start. I'm sure there was something about the 'original' Gen 2 Recaros not fitting in the Coupe and Roadster because of roof height? These look identical to the newer 'Coupe/Roadster-friendly' version, which don't seem to be quite as slim/light or as supportive. Obviously it's cheaper to use the same Recaro for everything, but when you're paying £29K for a Road/Track car, 'economies of scale' shouldn't really be a hardware issue, and as I know from experience, the seats are one of the most important items for 'connecting' with the car. Also not a whiff of 'Works' Carbon Fibre in the cockpit - my steering wheel and gear shift look better. And the Wheels are MINgin'!

I think MINI have shown good intentions with the GP, and they've certainly produced something a bit more 'focussed', but I have to say that while it'll doubtless be a cracking drive (as would a tuned S or JCW on Coilovers etc...), I think they've maybe 'chickened out' to a certain extent in some fairly vital areas in order to preserve some 'mass market' appeal in a car which is basically a niche within a niche, and there's still the usual 'miserly' approach to bits and pieces you might expect to come as standard - like using the standard steering wheel etc when you should be getting to grips with some Alcantara and Carbon. The Engineers and Petrolheads at MINI have made a valiant effort, but I'm afraid that the unseen hands of the Bean-Counters and Marketeers are unfortunately still in evidence. The phrase "Having their cake and eating it" springs to mind. We don't want cake - we want Vindaloo! Or should that be "MINDALOO"?

Do I want one? Well yes and no. Over the last few months I had been seriously considering going 'GP Mad' to mark my 50th (AAAARGH!) in December. It was always marginal money-wise, but you can often find a way with the pennies if you really want to. However, it was incredibly dependent on having ALL the right bits, and to be honest, I'd feel a bit 'short-changed' sitting on seats which quite possibly aren't as good as mine, and maybe looking at a remap (and a big Intercooler) to get the most out of the new chassis, when I could spend a few £K on my current car for something approaching the same result. Never say never, but it's a "Probably Not" now. Maybe if there was one in Douglas Park MINI...? Recaros and 'Coolers can always be swapped and ECU's can be remapped, slap on a set of lightweight Alloys and Bob's your uncle! Well he's my Dad actually...

[Mon the fish]

The alloys are hideous, and no doubt heavy too. But the car seems a good base to improve upon

[stoney]

Have to say I don't like the wheels and would need to remove some of those stickers

[rpn]

Nice, but like most of you already said could do with different design of alloys

[ELFMAN]

How can a (presumably highly qualified and highly paid) designer create those wheels and think "Yeah, that's one great looking Alloy!" :thumbs up:
It looks like something created in an Early Learning Centre Iron Foundry. Then it's been signed off by an obviously equally aesthetically challenged Committee... WHY??? :argh: :thud:

[Craig]

well, with the price being leaked at close to £29k then it's a no from me.... it was a consideration next year, but not at that price.... :frown:

I think as others have said, they have the wheels wrong... right to go for 17's but not that look... can't understand why they only left it around 218bhp, we know that engine can do more...!

[AndyP & Lenore]

I so desperately wanted to go against the flow and disagree with you all and say these wheels are lovely. Trouble is, on this occasion, you're right. :shut up:

And I'm with others... "only 215bhp?" WTH? Why not a stupid (read: fun-filled) 240 or 250? It's not like they can't do it, they just chose not to.:idunno:

The offending article.
http://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/imagecache/article_image_480/mini-gp-14.jpg

A.

[zimbo]

I wonder if I can find £29k down the back of the sofa... :Whistle:

[weefossy]

I really like it despite the wheels. So it's £29K + a set of decent alloys and it looks as if the £29k doesn't even get a multi-function steering wheel, so what else would I need to pay extra for to have a car with everything in it? HK stereo, sat nav etc. Looks like it could cost £34K + and anyone who would spend that on a Mini needs their head examined..............Doh!! :thud::moonie:

[Gismo]

The reason it's ONLY 29k is cause its only got 215 bhp

[stoney]

What really shocks me is its no lighter than the standard jcw alto it's striped what's the point in striping it if that's the case !!

[MINIme:)]

like the look a lot - apart from the alloys and the side sticker!

[Mon the fish]

It's no R26-R, which is what it should have been.

And whilst they have put coilovers on (which is more important than power IMO), they haven't set it up right. More camber at the back than the front!?

[gauldrymini]

I wonder if I can find £29k down the back of the sofa... :Whistle:


...checked our sofa yesterday and found £0.00:sad:

Like the look of the new GP, alloy wheels and all:smilewinkgrin:

[ELFMAN]

Despite my misgivings, if money wasn't an object (and I didn't object to the money) I'd order one now - just to see what a bit of tweaking here and there could do...

Lot of potential, but 'Hero' cars, especially MINI's Hero car, shouldn't be seen as having 'potential', they should be spot on straight from the factory. It's like MINI suspension, they STILL can't get it quite right, even after a decade! At least the GP has addressed that particular bugbear. Hopefully.

Can't wait for the first comprehensive Road Test - if EVO gives it the thumbs up, I might have to rob a bank after all! (They've been slightly 'down' on MINIs recently - mainly due to their rather 'interesting' behaviour from the sports suspension on our rubbish roads).

[Alex from NM]

Too many stickers, too few seats, too little power, too big a cost. No thanks. If you consider Evolve are doing warrantied upgrades to a standard S to 270bhp for £2.3k its hard to justify.

Its just not special. The GP should be the hardcore racer IMO. Stripped out, lightweight and with purpose. Not a JCW with less seats and a different paint job.

Rant over :)

[KenL]

I would prefer that it looked like a normal MINI. A special colour is fine but those wheels, the plastic add ons and the childish stickers ruin it for me.

[ELFMAN]

Aaargh! We've been evicted! :wtf:
I'm going to go to the new thread and start posting about the GP :smilewinkgrin:

[Gismo]

Aaargh! We've been evicted! :wtf:
I'm going to go to the new thread and start posting about the GP :smilewinkgrin::lol: :off topic: :lol:

[ELFMAN]

:moonie:

[Mon the fish]

There is so much power to be found so easily and cheaply in that engine. Longevity of said power is a question mark however.

I just find the 'Ring times as a comparison a bit pointless tbh, it's like 0-60 used to be. If you wanted to get round the 'Ring quick for £28k, you wouldn't buy a Mini

[Angib]

I just find the 'Ring times as a comparison a bit pointless tbh
Yeah, but it's a number and you know how small boys want their number to be better than any other boys' numbers.

[LadyR]

Oh boys...where's my 'rolls eyes' icon...

[KenL]

Agreed!

[The Dogfather]

I was referring to the original post in which you incorrectly claimed I was wrong about the Golf R not your original post in the thread.

You posted twice hence the - updated - tag being shown, the vB forum software joins the posts together rather than show them as two individual posts.

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Like this…...

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As an observation it comes across that in your eyes MINI can do no wrong?

Personally I can see when they’ve done right - the customisation options across the range, the R50/R53 chassis and the R56 fJCW overall.

When they ballsed up - midlands gearbox, R50/3 steering pump, the R56S cold start rattle, dual mass flywheel, the looks of the Coupe’s roof.

And when they’re just trying to grab every penny from an outgoing platform without spending too much - Coupe's weight and the £29k GP2 which only has 215hp.

[N16SHP]

soooooo..."the GP Revealed at last" Yup, well I sat in one two weeks ago and I have to say it's awesome. I think if I wanted one I'd be following my heart as it's a hefty pricetag for what it is, but my head would be saying buy a FJCW (some would say buying a Mini at all is following your heart given reliability, cost and practicality :D). I personally have no interested in 'Ring times. Yes, I may have a squint at them but I'd never buy a car based on them. I want my car to feel great, look great and drive great in my hands, not some old racing driver hooning it round a German forest. I can see both sides in that yes, Mini may have missed the mark, but who cares, what they have produced has completely sold out so what do they care! It's a thumbs up for the GP from me.

All of this is in my humble opinion of course, I am not taking sides in any which way shape or form, purely giving my opinion on what I think about the new GP.

[Mon the fish]

All of this is in my humble opinion of course, I am not taking sides in any which way shape or form, purely giving my opinion on what I think about the new GP.

This is a good point well made. Opinions are like bumholes, we all have them. You don't have to agree with everything posted on this site, and just because someone has a different opinion doesn't make either theirs or yours more or less valid.

Grump over.

Oh, and I'd rather by a Cayman S from a main dealer (with warranty) for GP2 money. My opinion, nothing more nothing less...

[rosslamb]

I am in love already!

[ELFMAN]

soooooo..."the GP Revealed at last" Yup, well I sat in one two weeks ago and I have to say it's awesome. I think if I wanted one I'd be following my heart as it's a hefty pricetag for what it is, but my head would be saying buy a FJCW (some would say buying a Mini at all is following your heart given reliability, cost and practicality :D). I personally have no interested in 'Ring times. Yes, I may have a squint at them but I'd never buy a car based on them. I want my car to feel great, look great and drive great in my hands, not some old racing driver hooning it round a German forest. I can see both sides in that yes, Mini may have missed the mark, but who cares, what they have produced has completely sold out so what do they care! It's a thumbs up for the GP from me.

All of this is in my humble opinion of course, I am not taking sides in any which way shape or form, purely giving my opinion on what I think about the new GP.

I concur wholeheartedly!!!

As far as I'm concerned, 'Ring times are just a bench (racing) mark as far as a road car goes - of course it has SOME bearing on a car's ability (in the hands of a professional 'Stig-a-like' with little or no imagination as far as big accidents go) - but something which can post fabulous lap times on track doesn't always translate into a great drive on everyday roads, so I take all of that stuff with a large pinch of salt, or no salt at all, 'cos like arguing over decimal places and personal opinions on NMS (as I've found!), it's bad for your blood pressure!

Having seen William's GP2, I think it's a pretty cool machine, and while they arguably didn't go the 'whole hog' with it, with the hardware it's packing it's a decent step up from the FJCW. They might have done better, but they could've done a whole lot worse! Anyway, it's all academic as I need a new GARAGE much more than I need a new MINI!

One thing though, I'm looking forward to riding shotgun in William's GP to see if I'm going to make the move to Coil-overs or not... :smilewinkgrin:

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I am in love already!

Steady on, does Mon know???? :laugh:

[MINIme:)]

One thing though, I'm looking forward to riding shotgun in William's GP to see if I'm going to make the move to Coil-overs or not... :smilewinkgrin:




Are you shouting in the hope that WILLIAM sees it? Are you? :frown: :smilewinkgrin: Fight you for it! :p

[ELFMAN]

Fight you for it! :p
OK, but I must warn you that my chosen mode of combat is Mud Wrestling... :knife:

[Craig]

OK, but I must warn you that my chosen mode of combat is Mud Wrestling... :knife:

:lol: PMSL :lol:

[MINIme:)]

OK, but I must warn you that my chosen mode of combat is Mud Wrestling... :knife:

No problem.

I'll have you psyched out before you can even climb into the ring. You haven't seen my double board break with arrow break while firewalking. Have you?


:stop: I'm pretty sure I beat you to sitting in the drivers seat anyway :p :smilewinkgrin:

[ELFMAN]

No problem.I'll have you psyched out before you can even climb into the ring. You haven't seen my double board break with arrow break while firewalking. Have you? I'm pretty sure I beat you to sitting in the drivers seat anyway :p :smilewinkgrin:

That's only 'cos I let you, anyway, while you're 'multi-tasking' in vain, I'll be rejoicing in your Muddy Demise! :bow: :dance:

:off topic: Sorry folks, got a bit sidetracked there... back 2 the GP2

[stoney]

i like it i like the drive and the set up of it i do think they should have gone the whole hog as such but do like it but i love the R53 GP !!

[Mon the fish]

I wonder how many owners will have a clue about how to adjust the suspension, and how many will experiment with it to find a setup they like

[Stewart]

I just respect what the car is all about, appreciate what it’s probably capable off.

As I like to just wash my Cars all that set up stuff is lost on me and Alarm bells would be sounding over the bespoke tyres needed for it. But who would not want one tucked away for the weekend. I mostly drive about like a nun but opening up a garage and see that snarl back at me would never get tiring.

http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/P90102756_highRes.jpg
It’s a real MINI for keeps I think.

Has MINI had its Concorde Moment???

[ELFMAN]

I wonder how many owners will have a clue about how to adjust the suspension, and how many will experiment with it to find a setup they like

Maybe true, but possibly in danger of being a wee bit patronising? :hand: :smilewinkgrin:

I'd hope that most of the GP2s will be bought by folk who are at least a BIT of a petrolhead. You do get instructions and tools etc for the suspension... and if you can't D.I.Y., you could always find somebody through an excellent website who can help you out! :thumbs up:

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I mostly drive about like a nun

So Stewart, would you say that the GP2 is "One of your Favourite things"?
Does your Wimple interfere with your vision?

Sorry - I do respect your sentiments, my joking is just a bad HABIT.

[Stewart]

Silver white winters that melt into springs, these are a few of my favorite things!
I’m sure William could answer that – I’m sure his car to him as he rev’s it is the Sound of Music!

My Money and a Garage I’d still take the General Works as I love my comfort and toys too much and that would be plenty of car for me in all honesty. I'd fear the GP2 too Hardcore for my driving style and me but its not to say If my six numbers came up I’d not buy one just experience it.

Considering the Elf mobile for a moment, you’ve spent some very real money on your car improving aspects other than just comfort and looks. I’d stay away from any Dealer that had one of these things sitting there! Temptation is a wicked thing!

The one thing I think most would agree on is "It's some Toy" thats for sure!

[weefossy]

Great picture Stewart. You couldn't walk away from that garage and go into the house, without turning back, for one more look............

[Gismo]

And the price for this beastie has been released to me from the local dealer $40k :frown:
I know comparisons are not fair and that you can get more car for your money, but, Julie's fully loaded Dodge Charger only costs $36

[Gismo]

Great picture Stewart. You couldn't walk away from that garage and go into the house, without turning back, for one more look............But, surely after parking it you would close the garage door, so, in effect, you wouldn't be able to see it..............i'll get my coat :lol:

[ELFMAN]

Considering the Elf mobile for a moment, you’ve spent some very real money on your car improving aspects other than just comfort and looks. I’d stay away from any Dealer that had one of these things sitting there! Temptation is a wicked thing!

Yes, not going to BUY one, I'm going to 'morph' my car into a cunningly disguised GP2. It's cheaper!
Possible plans include a 'suspension makeover' with Coilovers, uprated bushes etc etc, Brakes - uprated Pads, braided hoses... oh, and a wee remap. Just pipe dreams at the moment though!

[MINIme:)]

But, surely after parking it you would close the garage door, so, in effect, you wouldn't be able to see it..............i'll get my coat :lol:

Prob still look back to check the door was definitely secured correctly...then go back and physically check.

my OCD again :rolleyes:

[ELFMAN]

Prob still look back to check the door was definitely secured correctly...then go back and physically check. My OCD again :rolleyes:

I'm bad enough with my 'ordinary' MINI - with a GP2 I'd probably be sleeping in the garage... :yawn: :yes nod:

[zimbo]

Two of these for sale 2nd hand on minicherished already... :Whistle:

[Gismo]

Two of these for sale 2nd hand on minicherished already... :Whistle:Just not good value for money, as we all know, we could easily take a basic JCW and turn it into the same beast, albeit without the paint and stickers, wheels don't count cause folks like to change them :lol:

[Stewart]

I always figured that because it has bespoke tyres it would cost a fortune to replace them. Although can you not just put normal good quality tyre on the GP2?????

It’s a lovely Toy to have tucked away for weekend fun all the same and stands out of the crowd.


But if you said any keys to MINI no charge I'd take the Hatch Works with all the toys. But thats down to me not ever owning a Works and not wanting the most Hardocre MINI out there that would be wasted on me.:smilewinkgrin:

[ELFMAN]

Alan, of course you could produce an R56 JCW 'GP-alike' by going to adjustable coilovers and big brakes, and if you could get the aero undertray etc. I reckon it's one of these cars which - like the GP1 - is a bit more than the sum of its parts. My R53 JCW 210 was a 'GP' under the bonnet and the arches and was a fab thing, but there's something about the factory GPs which is unique and not attained by simply replicating the mechanicals.
Re. Tyres - If I had a GP, it just wouldn't be out in the snow, end of :snow: :frown:

[Gismo]

Appreciate what you're saying guys, but, i can't justify the cost of it, if money was no object then sure i'd have one as well..................
I'm trying to think of where i live is there a road that has more than one twisty in 5 miles, erm nope :lol:

For me the cost is virtually the same as a fully loaded FJCW

[weefossy]

Alan, you've summed it up. There is not a great deal of difference in the cost of a GP2 and a fully loaded FJCW with all the bits added. But as Euan has said, there is something special about having a GP2 and it should hold its value better than an equivalent modified FJCW. I'm sure the cost of William's GP2 and Andy / Lenore's JCW would have been very similar and they all got what they wanted / needed.

[ELFMAN]

Appreciate what you're saying guys, but, i can't justify the cost of it, if money was no object then sure i'd have one as well. I'm trying to think of where i live is there a road that has more than one twisty in 5 miles, erm nope. For me the cost is virtually the same as a fully loaded FJCW

Alan, I think if we're being honest, most things MINI are quite hard to 'justify' cost-wise - it's really up to the individual as to what they can afford and how far they want to go. Some folks will be willing and able to 'go large' straight away, others will go for what they're financially 'comfortable' with, and some folks will go without in other areas to get into the MINI Adventure. So whether you spend £3K or £30K, the thinking behind the purchase is universal - we buy them because they're f*ing great to drive, they still look cool (some cooler than others right enough :smilewinkgrin: ), and we get to go on NMS runs (on lovely twisty roads) with our pals, which for me is PRICELESS!
:motoring: :thumbs up:
For the record, if I had £29K to spend on a MINI, 'loaded' FJCW Vs the GP2 - I'd have the GP2 without a minute's hesitation. I've never been one for 'toys', but a 'focussed' car on a great road's a buzz I'll never 'tyre' of!

[Stewart]

For the record, if I had £29K to spend on a MINI, 'loaded' FJCW Vs the GP2 - I'd have the GP2 without a minute's hesitation. I've never been one for 'toys', but a 'focussed' car on a great road's a buzz I'll never 'tyre' of!

Says the guy with the Garage and the rather smart second car as a daily driver. But your right it’s down to individual wants and tastes. If I bought a GP beast it would have to be a second car and be able to be tucked away at night under cover and behind closed doors and I’d probably never drive it hard enough to appreciate all the magic that came as standard from MINI tweaking it. Plus I’d still drive it like a nun just to annoy the feck out of everyone.

But as I followed and I say that loosely Rob’s car round the Highlands the thought had crossed my mind for the sheer thrill and enjoyment it was the best car for what we were doing. If anyone had said swap keys with anyone for a try I'd be sitting in those killer GP seats.:thumbs up: I totally understand that if a new Works pulled in I’d think – very nice but the GP would probably get a bit more Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah that’s for sure due to the fact it’s a rare beast.

[Mon the fish]

See, I'm the opposite - I had the chance to buy a GP1 new back in 2006, but it was no different mechanically to my 2 year old car. So I saw no need to sell, spending money on a car that drove the same. Just didn't make sense to me.

[ELFMAN]

Says the guy with the Garage and the rather smart second car as a daily driver

:hand: Sorry Stewart, I know you didn't mean anything negative, but to be honest if my Mum was still alive and my Dad could get in and out of my Works seats, the R56 WOULD be my daily driver - as it was intended to be. So my alleged 'automotive largesse' is as much a product of unfortunate family circumstances as it is of my petrolhead tendencies or being able to afford two cars (and two road taxes, and two insurances, and two petrols etc etc) It's a financial balancing act, and like everyone I'm sure, I'd much rather have a healthy family, a daily-driven MINI and lower costs!
Apologies for probably sounding more annoyed than I am - raw nerve! :phew:

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See, I'm the opposite - I had the chance to buy a GP1 new back in 2006, but it was no different mechanically to my 2 year old car. So I saw no need to sell, spending money on a car that drove the same. Just didn't make sense to me.

I do agree with you, but even if I wanted one, I couldn't afford the GP1 at the time so just 'built' one over a few years into my R53! Like you, I loved my car as a sort of 'GP in disguise' - it was probably just as good to drive, even if it didn't have the GP kudos. It was also great because it was a bit of a 'sleeper' - apart from the Playmini....

[Stewart]

Apologies for probably sounding more annoyed than I am - raw nerve! :phew:
..
Sorry if that annoyed it was just a light hearted comment. I ruled out that I could never get the Mega seats as my Mum would either get stuck in them or destroy them going in and out. The softer sports seats did the trick. I stopped going on about the speaker she seem to like to kick as she gets in as it was a lost cause. How it’s stood up I don’t know. Anyway apologies it was less related to finances/circumstances and more a case that for me without a second car and a nice warm place to park the new GP to keep it good I’d never have one as its just too nice a car to leave on the drive and I'd get annoyed crashing about pot holes in it every day.

Ewan you could have easily packed in the MINI and just ran your Pug and I think its nice you kept somthing that you deseved in the MINI. I'd like to think my Dad looked down on the day I got my MINI and thought "Good for him he's finally got his MINI" I actaully got my MINI after a rough few years of caring for a member of my family with terminal Cancer and Duncan posted up a picture of his Blue Cooper and that very night I thought life is too short not to have something nice for a change. Few weeks later one Silver Coop was up the drive. I don’t grudge people anything that’s never been my style!

[ELFMAN]

Sorry if that annoyed it was just a light hearted comment

:off topic:
Absolutely no problem Stewart
I knew it was meant in jest and I wasn't 'annoyed' as such, just didn't want folks thinking I was swanning around like Lord Muck - that would ruin my 'Socialist Credentials'!

I know exactly what you mean about your MINI Re. your Dad. I got mine 3 weeks before my Mum died (sudden and unexpected), so she never even got a run in it. She did sit in it (pre-Works chairs!) and pronounced the car "Lovely!". She loved all my MINIS, and soft git that I am, I keep a wee 'memento' of hers in the glove box, so she's with me in spirit every time the car goes out.

:hand: Probably telling me to SLOW DOWN... :blush:

[Stewart]

One of the first things I thought when I parked it outside the house was my dad would have loved this, first person in my car was a neighbour who came out wanting a run in it. Next up was to show my Mum who was in Hospital at the time, I did not even tell her until the day before I got it. She still did not believe me till I flashed the lights :smilewinkgrin:

Good no hard feelings,:thumbs up: oh and its ok to have a memento/ Lucky charm in the car I seem to have had the same McDonalds Smuf toy unopened in my cars for the last thirteen years!!! Its been in the Mini from day one!:blush:

[ELFMAN]

:off topic:
I seem to have had the same McDonalds Smuf toy unopened in my cars for the last thirteen years!!! Its been in the Mini from day one!:blush:

My Dad still has two plastic 'Good Luck Gonks' in his Jazz which date from our cars in the late sixties or very early seventies!

BACK TO THE GP, LEST WE GET INTAE BOTHER WAE YON MODS... :ragin:

[Stewart]

To bring it entirely back on topic!


With regard to the three GP2 showing up on Cherish it will be interesting to see how long it takes for them to be snapped up.

[Craig]

Are they discounted or are dealers trying to fleece people ??

[Gismo]

Are they discounted or are dealers trying to fleece people ??My thinking also

[MINIme:)]

Very briefly back off topic just want to give my lovely friends Euan and Stew an 'I know a bit what it's like with the parents thing' hug :arms: :arms: They'll be watching you with pride :thumbs up:

Ok back on topic, thanks.

[ELFMAN]

Ta Jo, it's like a 'softest person on NMS' competition! :arms:

Back to the topic in hand - check this out:

p4ABcXh9KtQ

[Mon the fish]

Regarding the evo test & times of the GP2, I do wonder what times it would do with 250 or 270bhp

[Mon the fish]

You don't have to drive flat out though, 250bhp is there if you need it, not all the time. However, I do drive flat out quite a bit. So I'd like more power.

[Mon the fish]

IMO, either the GP2 is underpowered, or the JCW is overpowered. Look at the chassis/brake differences, then look at the bhp difference