Facebook & NMS

[Gismo]

Ive been trying for ages to get the Facebook Connection to work in NMS to no avail.
Today, while i was sleeping the site hosts were again working on the issue and they appeared to have fixed the problem, however, when i tried it the site crashed again and again.

So question, were any Facebook users logged in to both NMS and FB up until approx 4pm today. If so, did you have any issues cause im trying to see if its just me that has the problem.

It should be noted that once the FB link works everyone will have to clear their cache and all browser history etc and restart their browser

[Craig]

Sorry Alan, I was working today so wasn't logged in..

[Gismo]

Hoping Andy was logged in

[AndyP & Lenore]

I never actually "log out" of NMS. But I wasn't using NMS between 10.15am and 5.15pm - I just checked my browsing history. I didn't have any trouble with the site today at all, but I would agree the FB connectivity seems to crash the forums for some reason each time I see the FB button at the top.

A.

[Gismo]

Has anyone tried to contact Face Book for help?
All i can see are zillions of FAQ's of which none are remotely anywhere near what my problem is.
Yet, when i tried to set up the Face Book app and get codes etc i had to jump through hoops to get them the info they needed to prove i was legit.
Sadly, if i can't contact them then the FB link and NMS will never be able to join together, seemingly there is a permission error which kicks up a firewall issue with the host and i need the IP addresses that FB uses so they can be implemented into the server somewhere........................ :sad:

So, if anyone has any direct contact details i'd greatly appreciate it

[AndyP & Lenore]

I'm not sure you can contact them. Although I've never had reason to, so never looked for a number.

Any issues we have we just Google search the issue until a solution is found. We're doing a fair bit of Facebook development between the cinema's site and FB at the moment, trying to improve the cinema's social interconnectivity, and it's not easy going.

I'm really not sure what's involved in what you are doing, but are you looking for the answer in the right place - Facebook. Would you be better asking in the vBulletin forums?

A.

[Gismo]

Well, i think i've narrowed it down to the NMS host's firewall settings, as they try to se what the problem is they obviously discover that when clicking the FB connect it throws up an outgoing IP address, so, they add that to the firewall and bingo it works, however, cause FB literally have many IP addresses that get used by the entire universe single users get problems and the site crashes.
When they turn the firewall off completely everything works perfectly, but, of course they are not gonna and nor do i want them to disable the firewall altogether.

So, i wanted to contact FB to see if they would kindly advise their IP range (which i strongly doubt) but, as you say it looks like you can't actually contact FB, which, is utter pish, they are happy to take zillions of USD but interact directly with their community. Something that eBay had to rectify.

Anyway, the current position is, the FB link is inactive until the host can figure a way to allow their firewall to work with that link.

vBulletin have bent over backwards in helping me, am even on direct PM with one of their leading techs, but, it's in the hands of the NMS host.

Strange thing is, my bike site works perfectly well :idunno:

[Gismo]

Latest saga, apparently i need SSL to work on the host site, which, it doesn't, so, i'm waiting for quotes to migrate to a fully functioning SSL server, i've come this far i aint giving up now :lol:

[Craig]

:lol:

[AndyP & Lenore]

Latest saga, apparently i need SSL to work on the host site, which, it doesn't, so, i'm waiting for quotes to migrate to a fully functioning SSL server, i've come this far i aint giving up now :lol:

Which presumably you don't have on the Bike site... So, why would you need it for NMS?:confused:

A.

[Gismo]

Which presumably you don't have on the Bike site... So, why would you need it for NMS?:confused:

A.Yep, it's confused them too, but, given that i was with Supanames and am what they call a legacy platform a few other features dont work either, like the web mail i have set up and a few other things, so, the SSL servers are only a tenner a year extra and is more secure as well.
Like you with the cinema, i want NMS to get better social abilities and awareness

[AndyP & Lenore]

Yep, it's confused them too, but, given that i was with Supanames and am what they call a legacy platform a few other features dont work either, like the web mail i have set up and a few other things, so, the SSL servers are only a tenner a year extra and is more secure as well.
Like you with the cinema, i want NMS to get better social abilities and awareness

It's the way forward.

By the by, it sounds like support from the current host is significantly better than support from Supanames.

A.

[MINIme:)]

still not sure what you want the link to achieve to be honest? One thing I'd like to mention is that this site is fairly closed - you can't see posts unless you're a member and that is one of the main reasons I use it so much. A google search doesn't come up with posts from the site for example as it does on other forums which I use to a lesser degree. The fb group is an open group making it much more visible to millions. Which is maybe what you want? If this site is going more open I will be more selective about what I post of a personal nature. I guess I'll understand what it's doing when it happens.

[Gismo]

The main aim is to grow the forums to as large as is possible making it a fun place to be.
With the FB link enabled it'll hopefully bring in the zillions of people who frequent there and get them interested in the site.

The forums are open to anybody who cares to join with that being the only restriction.

Social networking is the future and without it forums like here will never survive, you can already see the downturn in posts created on NMS, simply look at FB and if i can capture the wall posts there into NMS our traffic would increase dramatically.

NMS has the bandwidth available to host this type of thing and i fully intend to make full use of it

[Gismo]

Well it appears that the Facebook connection is working as it should and you should also notice the appearance of the Publish To Facebook link at the bottom right of the message box.
Quite obvious what it's for, so, you can actually post here and on your Facebook wall at the same time :thumbs up:

Edit: Facebook does not show forum smilies, so, if anyone wants to post them up you're gonna have to use the traditional text ones like ;-)

[MINIme:)]

Just so people know, all posts on here are now visible to people who aren't registered. I do understand why you're keen on that, but I'll personally be more wary as the privacy and club feel were the main things that attracted me to the site in the first place! Just my opinion and I'm sure others won't agree!

[Gismo]

I can understand your concerns, but, there's not much difference to posting when members, who, have never posted and you dont know or ever met can see them, versus visitors!

[MINIme:)]

I know what you mean ;) the only difference is you could see who's online versus total stalkers/lurkers ;) I'll just alter the way I use the site.

[weefossy]

I have a hate of Facebook, never use it, never will. I also don't understand all the ramifications of posting on it, who can see what etc. I'm sure many people who use it regularly don't know either. So like Joanna, my posts will be a lot less open.

[Scottie]

I don't post hardly at all these days so I am in no position really to comment but I'm afraid I'm not a face book fan and because you have linked this site to it I simply won't post on here but I will continue to enjoy reading other people's posts

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[Stewart]

To be honest I only used the NMS FB page to monitor what was going on when the site was down. I prefer to come on the site and be on a proper forum. FB has its place to catch up with friends but I also limit myself on public FB space, especially when your full name is broadcast.

Although I do understand Joe Blog is free to join here and view every page much the same as on FB.

I cant see any linked pages from the forum so its not duplicating them to mirror the web site.

[Gismo]

I understand everyone's concerns about the face book connection.
The only way to link posts to FB is by selecting the Publish To Facebook check box in the lower right of any message box. If you do not select it then nothing will appear on your FB wall and thus link it to NMS.

Of course, i've had to open the site up to unregistered users to allow the connection, what this mainly does is to allow the FB bots to crawl over the site and hopefully advertise the site, but, obviously does allow guests to view the site also.
The end result here is that we get more people joining to increase the member base.

The costs to run NMS are met totally by me, with the odd sponsorship on the web site from clickable links.
There are 2 insurance companies currently on NMS who pay when an NMS member takes out a policy, but, i can't remember the last time i received any kind of payment from them.

This is not a begging letter, but, i have to try and cover my costs somehow.

With the FB connection NMS moves into the next generation of social networking and opens its door to millions of potential members and that's something i feel we must try to harness.

I can show NMS slipping down the stat charts, new members are dropping, posts are dwindling, actual log ons each day are dropping, NMS is in decline :sad:
We can keep going like this until we get the hard core folks who post left and just speak amongst ourselves, or we try to broaden the forums as much as we can.

Sorry if this appears to be over the top, no one has NMS at their heart more than me, so, hopefully people understand.

[ELFMAN]

I understand Alan's concerns, as he's ostensibly 'carrying the can' as far as NMS is concerned.

I was wondering though that is the fact new members are dropping possibly linked to something that's been flagged up before, ie that MINI is no longer the 'domain' of enthusiasts, and therefore we can't expect someone to be interested in a MINI club and its activities just because they own a MINI. Hence although/because MINI is more 'popular/mainstream' these days, the proportion of enthusiasts is actually lower? Is expanding the numbers who can view the site actually going to increase membership/useage/financial sustainability - that would seem to be the plan, and will this halt the 'decline' that Alan rather worryingly mentioned?

Personally, I don't want to be negative about the changes before I actually understand their implications and in that regard I have to be honest - I'm not sure how Facebook etc works, as I've never felt the need to use it, so I'm not sure of any of the ramifications of 'opening up' the site to anyone and everyone. I'd have to find out more as to whether it will alter the way I use or post on NMS, and have a think about what I'd want 'non-NMS' members to see. As far as I understand, now anyone can access the Forums, can anyone POST without 'joining' NMS? How will the changes affect my privacy as far as my details/posts being 'shared' in cyberspace?

Perhaps we could have a short 'Idiot's Guide', (for Short Idiots like me), which would flag up anything new when using NMS which the 'uninitiated' should be aware of. I would appreciate that.

If the move increases the use of NMS and helps it survive without compromising the content and quality of the debate, information and members' security, then I don't really see a problem, but as I said, I need to find out a bit more before I can make an informed decision as to whether it'll alter the way I use NMS. I would hate to see NMS go down - it would be a major nail in the coffin of MINI ownership for me, so if we can make sensible changes to try to ensure it continues, then that would seem to be the way forward.

[The Dogfather]

Alan - NMS is not alone, NM is in the same position. I believe other MINI forums are also seeing the same decline.

I’ve given our membership a clear picture of were NM stands, quite simply use it or loose it. If things fail to pick up I will close the site. I will direct members to other MINI sites if that happens NMS being the primary one of them.

Personally I think Facebook is actually on the wane itself, probably due to the popularity of Twitter.

[Gismo]

Personally, I don't want to be negative about the changes before I actually understand their implications and in that regard I have to be honest - I'm not sure how Facebook etc works, as I've never felt the need to use it, so I'm not sure of any of the ramifications of 'opening up' the site to anyone and everyone. I'd have to find out more as to whether it will alter the way I use or post on NMS, and have a think about what I'd want 'non-NMS' members to see. As far as I understand, now anyone can access the Forums, can anyone POST without 'joining' NMS? How will the changes affect my privacy as far as my details/posts being 'shared' in cyberspace?

Perhaps we could have a short 'Idiot's Guide', (for Short Idiots like me), which would flag up anything new when using NMS which the 'uninitiated' should be aware of. I would appreciate that.

If the move increases the use of NMS and helps it survive without compromising the content and quality of the debate, information and members' security, then I don't really see a problem, but as I said, I need to find out a bit more before I can make an informed decision as to whether it'll alter the way I use NMS. I would hate to see NMS go down - it would be a major nail in the coffin of MINI ownership for me, so if we can make sensible changes to try to ensure it continues, then that would seem to be the way forward.
Only members can post and see attachments.
The only new thing is that the forums are now linked to FB and that non registered users can view the forums, but let me try something............

Edit: Didn't work, guests must be able to see the threads.....hmm

[ELFMAN]

Alan - NMS is not alone, NM is in the same position. I believe other MINI forums are also seeing the same decline. I’ve given our membership a clear picture of were NM stands, quite simply use it or loose it. If things fail to pick up I will close the site. I will direct members to other MINI sites if that happens NMS being the primary one of them. Personally I think Facebook is actually on the wane itself, probably due to the popularity of Twitter.

Real shame if that's indeed the case Paul (welcome back by the way!), but while we have to be realistic, we also have to be careful not to make it a 'self-fulfilling prophesy' by creating a negative atmosphere - if it looks like a dead duck, it'll definitely sink. These MINI forums (NMS being the best one of course IMHO) are the best way to get the most from your MINI, so we have to try to make sure that's the message we give out, and not give up the ghost too soon. Words like 'decline' and phrases like 'close the site' paint a picture of circling vultures...

I'm not sticking my head in the sand - if low numbers make sites unsustainable, well that's it - but let's give it a bit of a 'bump start' and see if we can make NMS (and NM) more attractive to new members. We'll be giving it a shot at the Scottish Car Show this Sunday - especially with the 'Kylie Shorts Display Team' (hopefully kidding) with a good turn out of cars, with flags, flyers and food. We can only try...

If Site Owners/Moderators/Members have any ideas on how we can get things on a more secure footing, put it out there and hopefully it might start a revival.

[ELFMAN]

Only members can post and see attachments. The only new thing is that the forums are now linked to FB and that non registered users can view the forums, but let me try something............ Edit: Didn't work, guests must be able to see the threads.....hmm

Cheers Alan :thumbs up:

[The Dogfather]

We’ve (NM) tried the bump starts but its a short-lived improvement, hence the decision to be brutally honest.

The prophecy has been fulfilled, unfortunately.

I’m on here practically everyday but I only comment on threads that are compelling, this one.

[Gismo]

Thanks for your input Paul.

I don't want to scare people off either, but, we must try something, throwing money at the site does not equal success, advertising and showing the world we exist does.

Here is an example, today, 2 new members, coincidence :idunno:

[MINIme:)]

Hmm, I understand the issues better now, thanks for explaining Alan.

I'm wondering this: On a site with fewer, but more devoted, involved members (proper club members) who feel secure and, to a large extent, know each other, would they give more of themselves, open up more make the forum better than one that might become very diluted with people who don't know each other and therefore give out less? It's just a thought, but something more vague and impersonal is less engaging to me than a club, where I know people. The difference in the way I post on here and on tM is huge, due to the fact that they were more visible. I don't know what kind of cost levels you are carrying but would a small 'membership fee' be a feasible way of helping to ease the burden? Maybe it wouldn't work or would put people off. I'm only talking 5 or 10 a year. I'm sure you'd have thought of that if it was a good idea though...It is just an idea and I haven't actually thought it through myself properly so don't attack me for a rubbish idea!! I guess I maybe wouldn't have joined initially if I'd had to pay without having a look about first. Unless you could get access once to look before joining - I think I'm making this too complicated...sorry just trying to throw out some suggestions.

Edit: Also despite the time difference between our psots I didn't see your last post before posting mine due to faffing with an edit box open!

[stoney]

I don't think any one need to change the way they post tbh all that has changed is IF you wish you can hit the facebook button and share your post on face book do if you don't hit that button your post will not be shown on facebook

I won't be using the button but totally understand why we are going this way ;)

[Gismo]

I don't like the idea of members having to pay anything and would never ask, when tM initially started after the MINI2 revolt a fee was attached to certain types of membership, which, is their way to run their site. Their choice and all that, i don't have any problems with that either, i elected not to pay and carried that in NMS, if i dont want to pay then i won't make others.
Donations have been made by members in the past, some money comes in from the stickers purchased through the link on the website, but, nothing anywhere near close to running the site.

I've said it many times, i'm not looking for any payments, NMS is one of my hobbies, i'm proud to be able to provide a place where like minded petrol heads can share their experiences.

[SCOOTERBUK]

I think any way to grow the forum and attract new like minded members is a good thing, I dont use facebook my self but more and more forums/companys are using this as a tool to speard the word.

[MINIme:)]

I don't think any one need to change the way they post tbh all that has changed is IF you wish you can hit the facebook button and share your post on face book do if you don't hit that button your post will not be shown on facebook

I won't be using the button but totally understand why we are going this way ;)

it's not the button I'm talking about stoney it's the visibility of the whole forum. You used to have to be registered to see all the posts and now you don't. I think it's good to be aware that that has changed.
The button, I think, (I might be wrong!) leads to a post on fb that takes you back here to the whole thread not just your post too. I think. ;) So people see you've posted (if you choose to hit the button) and are brought here where they see everything. Is that right? Apologies if I've got that wrong!

[AndyP & Lenore]

Am I right in saying when you click the "Post to facebook" button it posts on your OWN wall on Facebook? Or does it post it to the NMS "Group" on Facebook?

If it only posts to your own WALL, for those who "don't like facebook, don't have it and never wiil" have nothing to worry about because if you've no wall to post to you've no account to connect to and nothing will be posted anywhere - in fact, I'd venture a guess if you don't go through the process of "Connecting" your NMS account to your Facebook account you won't even get the option of ticking any "post to facebook" boxes anyway.

If it posts to the FB 'Group' then - well, I'm not sure what it will post. But only the members of the Group can post to the group.

A.:confused:

[Gismo]

Everything Andy says, except, any posts you link to Facebook goes to your own wall

Bear in mind though, that any friends can click on the link in your wall and get to the forums, these are the folks I'm hoping will register and become members.

Trust me, if anyone doesn't like a forum they won't visit

[stoney]

it's not the button I'm talking about stoney it's the visibility of the whole forum. You used to have to be registered to see all the posts and now you don't. I think it's good to be aware that that has changed.
The button, I think, (I might be wrong!) leads to a post on fb that takes you back here to the whole thread not just your post too. I think. ;) So people see you've posted (if you choose to hit the button) and are brought here where they see everything. Is that right? Apologies if I've got that wrong!

Yes I understand that but any one can fill in a forum and register on the site no matter who they are so it make no real difference if you need to register or not I have register on lots of different forums but don't post on them just so I can see certain stuff !!

[AndyP & Lenore]

Yes I understand that but any one can fill in a forum and register on the site no matter who they are so it make no real difference if you need to register or not I have register on lots of different forums but don't post on them just so I can see certain stuff !!

Wot he said. 'tis true.

A.

[Gismo]

The button, I think, (I might be wrong!) leads to a post on fb that takes you back here to the whole thread not just your post too. I think. ;) So people see you've posted (if you choose to hit the button) and are brought here where they see everything. Is that right? Apologies if I've got that wrong!Spot on, any threads published to a Facebook users wall attaches a link back to the thread on NMS, any friends can then click the link and come back to the forum.

[AndyP & Lenore]

I think a short idiots guide or a guide to short idiots or an idiots guide to shorts is a good idea, but in the mean time I've just carried out some tests and I'd like to reassure members of the following...

If you DO have a Facebook account... AND you have "linked that account to your NMS membership"
When you start a new thread on NMS when you click to 'Submit' the thread to NMS you will see the 'Post to Facebook' tick box. If you tick this box it WILL create a wall post on your own Wall/Timeline. If you DO NOT tick the 'Post to facebook' box, it will not - obviously.

If you DO NOT have a facebook account...
Any new posts you start or threads you contribute to you will not even SEE the 'Post to Facebook' tick box - so nothing will appear ON FACEBOOK.

However, Facebook user or not...
If someone who IS a Facebook user AND they choose to 'Post to (their own) Facebook' Wall/Timeline, their Facebook Friends will probably be able to see they have either started or contributed to a 'linked' thread on New MINI Scotland. As Alan has reduced the NMS privacy settings somewhat, those Friends of the Facebook account user can click the link which takes them to NMS where they can view the thread. But as Alan has said, people viewing NMS who are NOT registered can not view attachments or post to the site.

There. Clear as mud. Right?

A.

[Gismo]

There. Clear as mud. Right?

A.Thanks Andy, spot on and is exactly what i hope will bring people over to NMS.

This might not suit everybody and i don't want to totally destroy NMS, so, i am open to discussion and everything will be considered.
If the site does not grow with the FB link enabled, then i can turn it off, but, i feel i have to try something.

£350 a year in host fees and software is a lot to dish out for a low member base

[Stewart]

Can you switch it off again? Yes I pressed it on!!!!!!!!!


http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5314aV1Lk1rqrdhvo1_500.jpg

[AndyP & Lenore]

Can you switch it off again? Yes I pressed it on!!!!!!!!!



There's always one.

Yes Stewart, you can 'Dsiconnect' your NMS and Facebook connection - although I'm not sure why you would want to, just don't tick the 'post to facebook' button when you post anything - it sits unticked as default anyway.

But if you really want to disconnect the two....

Click "Settings" then on the left panel under "My Account" click "Edit Connections"... It will show your Facebook platform connection, just click "Disconnect".

A.

[Stewart]

Cheers!

Old School.


I like to keep things simple, that's why twitter got the heave as it just bombarded me with Information, yes some interesting and yes some useful but felt enough was enough and i did not need it or want it in my life. I really did not need to know what Film some Celebrity was going to watch or that the guy on the news was going to bed early….;)

FB is nice to see what is going on with friends and that’s the way I like it.

NMS is still catching up with friends but in a Mini sense.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Cheers!

Old School.


I like to keep things simple, that's why twitter got the heave as it just bombarded me with Information, yes some interesting and yes some useful but felt enough was enough and i did not need it or want it in my life. I really did not need to know what Film some Celebrity was going to watch or that the guy on the news was going to bed early….;)

FB is nice to see what is going on with friends and that’s the way I like it.

NMS is still catching up with friends but in a Mini sense.

I know exactly what you mean Stewart. Like these folk who constantly post pics of their dinner on FB. I mean, who would DO that? :lol:

A.:D

[Gismo]

I know exactly what you mean Stewart. Like these folk who constantly post pics of their dinner on FB. I mean, who would DO that? :lol:

A.:DOr constantly harp on about film quotes, sheesh

[AndyP & Lenore]

Or constantly harp on about film quotes, sheesh

:blush::blush::blush::blush::blush:

A.:D

[ELFMAN]

I checked into the site last night, just to see what was what, and noticed that although you can check out the Forums, you can't actually access them/take part unless you have a Username and Password. If this is indeed the case, I don't really see a problem. And if the Facebook thing is optional, fair enough.

If we can attract more members by 'spreading the net' (inter or otherwise) a bit wider, then that's fine. There must be quite a few MINI fans out there who are just not aware of NMS. I've run off a bunch of NMS flyers for the show on Sunday, but will carry a few around and maybe drop some in to Parks MINI just in case we can pick up a few more. Every little bit helps! MINI itself is doing REALLY well - new investment from BMW, decent sales etc - so we should be able to capiltalise on that success. If MINI's on the up, we shouldn't be going down...

[Gismo]

I checked into the site last night, just to see what was what, and noticed that although you can check out the Forums, you can't actually access them/take part unless you have a Username and Password. If this is indeed the case, I don't really see a problem. And if the Facebook thing is optional, fair enough.

If we can attract more members by 'spreading the net' (inter or otherwise) a bit wider, then that's fine. There must be quite a few MINI fans out there who are just not aware of NMS. I've run off a bunch of NMS flyers for the show on Sunday, but will carry a few around and maybe drop some in to Parks MINI just in case we can pick up a few more. Every little bit helps! MINI itself is doing REALLY well - new investment from BMW, decent sales etc - so we should be able to capiltalise on that success. If MINI's on the up, we shouldn't be going down...:thumbs up:

[weefossy]

As a non FB user I need to get this clear in my head. A stranger can get into NMS from FB and see the Forums. He then clicks into this thread. I understand he can't see pictures or attachements or post up a reply, but can he read all the posts in a thread?
For example, If Andy replies to this post and links it to FB, can one of his FB friends read not only his post, but all the other posts including mine, even although I haven't "ticked" the FB link? Apologies if this seems stupid.

[Gismo]

Basically yes, if any member links a post to their FB wall it adds a link back to NMS.
From there any friend if FB set to private, can click the link and then be taken to the thread.
They cannot post or view attachments.

However, anyone simply browsing the Internet can now see posts, but again, cannot post or view attatchments

[Gismo]

Best way to try is to log off NMS and view as a guest

[MINIme:)]

note that (as far as my testing suggests) all the bigger sized photos a lot of us tend to use on gallery threads eg linked from photobucket ARE visible to unregistered visitors, whereas the ones that come up in a kind of box, as a clickable smaller one (an attachment) from a file on your laptop, can't be seen. I am considering removing some of my big photobucket pictures, or mainly using attachments from now on. As Alan said, I have figured this out just by logging out and then clicking around and seeing what I could and couldn't do.

If it helps to explain fb a bit Malcolm, apart from 2 people I can think of currently, I am friends with all my friends on fb. ie they are people I know - most of them I know well, not just random adds - and there are still over 200 of them on my friend list. Some people will add anyone that asks as they use it for networking and some people also make their posts visible to anyone that falls across them, not just those on their friend list. Although not just anyone is likely to fall across them really - they might see that one of their mutual friends had commented on something of someone else's if it was originally set to be viewable by all. I only post things visible to friends. If anyone at the show has a half decent phone (I dont use internet on mine, I have a v cheap contract!) then I can show you and explain a bit better if it helps? The above is a right bad explanation!

[Gismo]

I've always said that attachments can't be seen, hosted images will be seen.

[MINIme:)]

No probs Alan, I wasn't arguing, but I had misunderstood what an attachment was and wasn't, until I tested it! It was my definitions that were off ;)

[Gismo]

No worries, have looked at a lot of your hosted images and am not sure they need removed, not sure what it is worrying you,
Basically its all images of your car which is viewed by thousands of real people when you drive it

[Tam1314]

How many members does NMS have who regularly use the forums.
I would be more than willing to pay, say a tenner a year for the privilege.

[Gismo]

How many members does NMS have who regularly use the forums.
I would be more than willing to pay, say a tenner a year for the privilege.NMS is free and always will be while I own it.