Why Is MINI Photographing an Updated Rocketman Concept?

[Stewart]

Thanks to Twitter we know that MINI has been recently busy photographing what looks to be a slightly updated Rocketman concept on Carnaby St in London today. Shod in JCW red roof livery and dark blue, the car looks better than ever. Does this mean the rumors of the concept dying have been exaggerated? We can only hope so.

Update: It would appear MINI is creating a short film featuring the Rocketman.

http://s3.motoringfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/575196376-e1336419803638.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/568d562b-2d55-bc69.jpg


I'd actually go as far to say that looks just a bit too quirky for my taste and age.....

[AndyP & Lenore]

I'd actually go as far to say that looks just a bit too quirky for my taste and age.....

Well, with your age and all, I can understand you thinking that.:moonie:

Me however, still in the flush of youth:thumbs up:, think it's a breath of fresh air and will take the Fiat 500 market by storm!:D

A.:D

[zimbo]

:O Ooooooh yeah looks really nice, so its safe to say id easily accept one of these so long as the asking price is in the realms of reality!! quite like the black/red two tone leather sets as well, at least thats what it looks in those pics. All round visability looks like it would be excellent as well

[MINIme:)]

Hmmm interesting, it screams teenage girl at me for some reason - purely from the front end 'face'. But that's just my instinct reaction. It may well grow on me as they usually do!

[JC Mike]

It was my understanding that this was definitely getting launched. (excuse the pun)

[euan]

I think that looks great, but by the time it goes into production it'll be a bit less smooth one it has bumpers etc fitted.

Still like it.

[ELFMAN]

I thought this concept had been knocked on the head. Looks OK, but IMHO completely pointless :idunno:

Does this mean that the MINI Hatch is now deemed to be too BIG? Funny, it used to be too SMALL - hence the Clubbie, which was still too SMALL - hence the Countryman, which is now too BIG - hence the Paceman...

Trying to keep up with all this is like trying to herd cats :argh:

[N16SHP]

I'm not a fan. To me, it looks like they have taken the front of a Ford Ka and stuck it onto a Mini...not cool!

[ianking]

I think thats very smart. Could see my wee sister wanting to change her Fiat 500 for one of those.

[ELFMAN]

I think thats very smart. Could see my wee sister wanting to change her Fiat 500 for one of those.

I don't think it looks at all bad, but if it is indeed MINI's answer to the likes of the 500, I don't see where it leaves the current hatch... If you need a 'Town Car', you buy a Rocketman, if you need space etc, you buy a Countryman. I have a feeling that, in time, with all these new 'task-specific' models in the range, the R56 could become marginalised and possibly redundant. I suppose it all depends on whether future buyers are willing to put driving pleasure before city-friendly 'dinkiness' or increased practicality.

If this concept made it into production, I wonder what the pricing structure would be? I mean presumably it'll come in under the R56, so what will be the 'play-off' between a well-specced Rocketman and a basic MINI ONE? Why would a manufacturer have two separate models arguably chasing the same buyer?

[Mon the fish]

Is this where the new Flymo engines end up, in one of these?

[JC Mike]

I think some ranges argubly have choices like you would have with the standard hatch and rocketman, a fiat 500 and punto, a ford ka and fiesta, albeit, these options have 5 doors.

[ELFMAN]

So the R56 is now the MINI equivalent of a PUNTO????? Bit long in the tooth. No longer stylish enough to cut it? A sort of Fat Dad to the Automotive Teenage Rampage that is Rocketman? (sound of gunshot) :thud:

I'd argue that there is more room for 'choices' from huge manufacturers like Fiat and Ford with 'stand alone' model lineups (the 500 has practically nothing to do with the Punto) than MINI which has (possibly Countryman aside) variations on a theme - ie with a distinct MINI style and based on the R56 platform. My point is that there's not a whole lot of difference between a Rocketman and a MINI hatch, whereas the 500 is cute and fashionable and, in comparison, the Punto... isn't. Fiat needed the 500 specifically to get into the market established by MINI way back in 2001, so why should MINI bring out a model in response to cars inspired by it? Trying to reinvent what you invented over a decade ago doesn't make sense to me.

How many 'choices' do we need from MINI? Personally I can't wait for the "Camperman" RV (which will be 25 feet long and handle like a fat labrador) and the "Shop'n'Cut'n'Cookman" supermarket trolley, ride-on lawnmower and BBQ Multi-Purpose 'Lifestyle' Vehicle. At least there'll be somewhere to put your ******* shopping...

[Stewart]

"Camperman" RV

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq72/sav112g/Mini-Minivan.jpg

“MINI giving our customers the choices they want and the choices they don’t since 2001”

[MiniSnaps]

Why would a manufacturer have two separate models arguably chasing the same buyer?


You mean the way BMW has with the 1 & 3 series and Audi have with the A1 & A3, where the higher specced versions of one encroach on the potential market of the lower-mid range versions of the next class up?

[JC Mike]

So the R56 is now the MINI equivalent of a PUNTO????? Bit long in the tooth. No longer stylish enough to cut it? A sort of Fat Dad to the Automotive Teenage Rampage that is Rocketman? (sound of gunshot) :thud:

I'd argue that there is more room for 'choices' from huge manufacturers like Fiat and Ford with 'stand alone' model lineups (the 500 has practically nothing to do with the Punto) than MINI which has (possibly Countryman aside) variations on a theme - ie with a distinct MINI style and based on the R56 platform. My point is that there's not a whole lot of difference between a Rocketman and a MINI hatch, whereas the 500 is cute and fashionable and, in comparison, the Punto... isn't. Fiat needed the 500 specifically to get into the market established by MINI way back in 2001, so why should MINI bring out a model in response to cars inspired by it? Trying to reinvent what you invented over a decade ago doesn't make sense to me.

How many 'choices' do we need from MINI? Personally I can't wait for the "Camperman" RV (which will be 25 feet long and handle like a fat labrador) and the "Shop'n'Cut'n'Cookman" supermarket trolley, ride-on lawnmower and BBQ Multi-Purpose 'Lifestyle' Vehicle. At least there'll be somewhere to put your ******* shopping...

Mini seem to reinventing something they did 50 years ago with the Rocketman, similar dimensions to an 'Original Mini' thats how its been marketed to us so far.

[JC Mike]

[B]So the R56 is now the MINI equivalent of a PUNTO????? Bit long in the tooth. No longer stylish enough to cut it?

Or like a Fiesta, its the same segment all these cars are in. Most manufacturers go with slight variations now, the A1 being a good example.

[ELFMAN]

Like a FIESTA? NEVER! NEVER!! NEVER!!!
Back in the 80's I used to waste Fiesta XR2's for laughs in my Classic Mini, and despite the latest Fiesta being a much better car than its predecessors, let's not put a glorified shopping trolley in the same 'segment' as our beloved MINI. The whole thing about MINI used to be (and still should be) that it wasn't about 'segments' or market share, it was about a unique driving experience.

I really have to stop thinking about this. Despite being an interesting topic for debate, I'm afraid all the speculative Market Segment Model Alignment Niche-Filling talk is getting further and further away from why I got involved with the MINI. So instead I'm going to try to concentrate on Modding, fast B-roads and not acting my age!

[MINIme:)]

I thought this concept had been knocked on the head. Looks OK, but IMHO completely pointless :idunno:

Does this mean that the MINI Hatch is now deemed to be too BIG? Funny, it used to be too SMALL - hence the Clubbie, which was still too SMALL - hence the Countryman, which is now too BIG - hence the Paceman...

Trying to keep up with all this is like trying to herd cats :argh:

:lol:

I agree with EVERYTHING you just said ;)



...Edit: and this.... you guys are right on my wavelength this evening :lol: which is worrying as I've been doing 'blank' all day. I want a Coompervan ;)

"How many 'choices' do we need from MINI? Personally I can't wait for the "Camperman" RV (which will be 25 feet long and handle like a fat labrador) and the "Shop'n'Cut'n'Cookman" supermarket trolley, ride-on lawnmower and BBQ Multi-Purpose 'Lifestyle' Vehicle. At least there'll be somewhere to put your ******* shopping... "


“MINI giving our customers the choices they want and the choices they don’t since 2001”

[JC Mike]

Like a FIESTA? NEVER! NEVER!! NEVER!!!
Back in the 80's I used to waste Fiesta XR2's for laughs in my Classic Mini, and despite the latest Fiesta being a much better car than its predecessors, let's not put a glorified shopping trolley in the same 'segment' as our beloved MINI. The whole thing about MINI used to be (and still should be) that it wasn't about 'segments' or market share, it was about a unique driving experience.

I really have to stop thinking about this. Despite being an interesting topic for debate, I'm afraid all the speculative Market Segment Model Alignment Niche-Filling talk is getting further and further away from why I got involved with the MINI. So instead I'm going to try to concentrate on Modding, fast B-roads and not acting my age!

I think you are totally missing the point of what i am saying, i am only comparing the mini range to these cars, in size and pretty much nothing else.

[N16SHP]

I can see both points...I think. The Ford example I get, a Focus or Escort used to be the medium sized family car, and then the Fiesta was its small sister, then they introduced the Ka into the 'Super-Mini' category and these days even the Focus is not a hugely big family car. I can see Mini doing the same thing, the Mini Hatch is their Fiesta and now they are possibly going to introduce the Rocketman as their Ka. Personally, I really hate how Mini are diluting the brand, but it is not sustainable to stay in the market with just one model, they have to diversify. Yes, they perhaps could of just diversified with one more model rather than a barage of concepts some good some bad. You could argue that BMW are the diversified company and Mini is just one more model to that range and I'd love that if they only offered one or two models but it's just not going to happen :(

Will it stop me buying a Mini, I don't think so, but I can still only ever see myself driving a hatch as thats what I love. I bought my Mini, instead of an ST or a Corsa VXR because it was head and shoulders above in terms of the drive and as much as I hate to say it, even in class. When's the last time you seen a wee ned driving a Mini? When's the last time you seen a ned driving a Corsa VXR or a Fiesta ST with its arse dragging along the ground and an exhaust you could stick you head in? A'l rest my case!

[stoney]

Will it stop me buying a Mini, I don't think so, but I can still only ever see myself driving a hatch as thats what I love. I bought my Mini, instead of an ST or a Corsa VXR because it was head and shoulders above in terms of the drive and as much as I hate to say it, even in class. When's the last time you seen a wee ned driving a Mini? When's the last time you seen a ned driving a Corsa VXR or a Fiesta ST with its arse dragging along the ground and an exhaust you could stick you head in? A'l rest my case!

I am with u 100% on this point ;)

[ELFMAN]

Quote: JCMike "I think you are totally missing the point of what i am saying, i am only comparing the mini range to these cars, in size and pretty much nothing else".


I don't think I'm THAT thick - I get where you're coming from, maybe I'm not putting my thoughts across clearly...

I know you're basically comparing them in size, it's just that I disagree with the whole ethos of dealing with the 'MINI Brand' using the same parameters in comparison with other more 'mainstream' manufacturers which I think undermines most of MINI's (Gen 1 and 2) original unique selling points. I realise that MINI had to diversify and introduce new models, as it would have been economic suicide not to do so, but continually expanding the MINI range to such an extent that it seems to be trying to fill every niche taken up by every other manufacturer is diluting the essential core appeal of the original product.

So I understand the size comparison, but for me at least, that's just scratching the surface. This whole thing goes a whole lot deeper than that. The Ka and Fiesta are two completely different models from a huge manufacturer, which fit requirements in the market for small, and smaller, practical hatchbacks. Now the market for the MINI has arguably never really been that of the small, practical hatchback. It's not that small, and it's not that practical for a start, and the type of person who buys a Ka or a Fiesta probably isn't interested in MINI. So to entertain the premise that 'we must have MINI equivalents of both the Ka and Fiesta' is essentially pointless.

Why do we need the Rocketman when we already have the R56 range? The current MINI hatch isn't so big that it's unsuitable for 'city life', it's pretty reliable, it's frugal these days, you can get a reasonable amount of stuff in it given the boot's limited capacity and even I can park it, and I'm crap at parking. So why is there a need for a smaller - even less practical - variant? The Rocketman doesn't really bring anything new to the table, it won't do anything that the R56 doesn't already do, and in my opinion it's just there to get into yet another market segment which MINI seems to feel it's missing out on.

Which brings me back to the point that in this case I think MINI, in its determination to be all things to all people, is in danger of spreading itself too thin, and creating confusion in the name of customer 'choice'. It's pretty easy to differentiate between a Ka and a Fiesta, but I'm afraid that, size apart, there will be a blurring of the lines between the R56 and the Rocketman. I bet that the vast majority of the general public would just take the Rocketman for a 'full-fat' MINI anyway. MINI, although obviously much more 'mainstream' these days, is still essentially something of a 'niche market' in global automotive terms, and these seemingly endless subdivisions are cutting thinner and thinner slices of what is a relatively small cake. OK, if it does go into production, the Rocketman would probably sell (like hot cakes), but how that would affect sales of the R56 range is anybody's guess. Sales of the Clubbie have no doubt been negatively affected by the Countryman, and I think we'd see the same effect on the Hatch if the Rocketman was introduced.

MINI need to make sure they don't contaminate the bathwater by introducing a new Baby.

[Mon the fish]

The ned point - with R53's now going south of £4k, it's a matter of time before R53's end up with a boot-full of speakers and neon, sadly

[JC Mike]

For what its worth, i really dont think Mini needs a 'rocketman' to be honest, a smaller, less practical Mini? The only positive of this that i could see is bringing the pricepoint down for people wanting a new Mini but that would have the same effect on residual value, the brand is close to saturation now i think.

I am excitied about the 3dr countryman, as i like the styling but there really isnt much more they can do with the range surely?

[ELFMAN]

I agree Mike, MINI are at 'saturation point' now with their line up, and should concentrate on what they have, making sure that as well as making great cars, matters like customer service and reliability match the driving experience. That way, they'll keep their loyal customers and attract as many new ones as they would with something like the Rocketman.

[Duncan Stewart]

Why do we need the Rocketman when we already have the R56 range? The current MINI hatch isn't so big that it's unsuitable for 'city life', it's pretty reliable, it's frugal these days, you can get a reasonable amount of stuff in it given the boot's limited capacity and even I can park it, and I'm crap at parking. So why is there a need for a smaller - even less practical - variant? The Rocketman doesn't really bring anything new to the table, it won't do anything that the R56 doesn't already do, and in my opinion it's just there to get into yet another market segment which MINI seems to feel it's missing out on.


My understanding is the replacement for the R56 (due next year) will be bigger and based on a shared platform, thus creating "space" for a smaller car in the range.
I suspect this means a less unique driving experience and even higher prices :sad:

However maybe the rocketman will be smaller, less expensive and more unique to drive - maybe more like the mini and R50 MINI? - if so I will be having one :smilewinkgrin:

[Stewart]

So if the F56 is a bigger Hatch then why build this Countryman Coupe.

It must be one of the most confusing brands out.

So how do you market a Countryman Coupe- its Smaller than the 4 Door Countryman Counterpart but bigger than the new Hatch that is itself bigger from its predecessor but not as sporty as the Coupe, Roadster.


http://lh6.ggpht.com/-EYMqtdoZr0k/T6gAMPABRbI/AAAAAAAHjj0/t8_907qUkgY/s1600/Mini-Countryman-Coupe-4%25255B3%25255D.jpg

[Mon the fish]

The strategy translates as 'Just give us your money, we'll find a car for you'

Are any of these new models actually going to be better to drive? More fun?

[AndyP & Lenore]

I have to say that I kind of disagree with almost all the negative comments about MINI in this thread. I can't understand how it affects current MINI owners and why you would be so upset when MINI launch a new derivative of the MINI brand.

That said, the Countryman Coupe, to me, is the most utterly pointless car they've ever tested. Why not just buy a hatch? And there's nothing wrong with the Countryman 5 door in handling or looks so, what's the point?

But every other model, Roadster, Coupe, Convertible, Clubman, Countryman, even possibly the Rocketman if it's launched and of course the Hatch will suit a particular demographic and a specific 'need' for a MINI owner.

MINI are a commercial company. They MUST make a profit to survive. Simply throwing out hatches and nothing else gives them no scope to develop the brand or expand the brand.

Just sayin' :idunno:

A.:D

[Stewart]

I’m always worried that they will design the new Hatch around one of these models just to fit it in. I keep an eye on the news hoping that they do not sacrifice what the Hatch now offers in size and usability and more importantly looks to become a member of the pack and step ever further away from the Classic.

We could be looking at the design team trying to bring in a common styling that will go through the range and before we know it the MINI hatch has become a car designed and styled not purely on driving pleasure and distinctive looks but something at that resembles it but is not quite the same and fits in a pigeon hole rather than stand out and be hatch we all love.

Granted with me it is a wee bit of a shock and awe reaction when I first see new models. I understood the Countryman as it did bring in the Mummy brigade with four doors that you can chuck the kids in. My friend has an S All4 and I’ve grown to like it, same with the Coupe first reaction was – what have they done with the roof! Then you get used to the look and appreciate that its got a bigger boot, ok only two seats but is a stiffer car and as far as I’m aware it just as great a drivers car as the MINI as always been.

I don’t mind new models just wary of what direction its taking the Hatch and what concessions will be made for it to fit in. But in a ever saturated MINI world at least it keeps the range fresh if your still wanting MINI but something that stands out from the crowd.

I’d be very surprised if the Rocketman or what ever it could be called is a cheap car, this is MINI we are talking about. I see it offering more City driving/parking and silly MPG with the price tag of that of a standard Cooper to that of a sub 10K MINI. I guess we will have to see.

[ELFMAN]

I agree with Stewart's sentiments.

I guess I'm just a MINI Romantic when it comes down to it (NOT a New Romantic - the makeup brought me out in a rash). There was a time when you'd say "I drive a MINI", and folk would say "Cool!", now it's "I drive a MINI", and the reaction is (if there is any reaction), "Which MINI... oh yeah, whatever." Many of us in NMS will have experienced those heady days of yore (I think he was the donkey in the Winnie the Pooh stories), and miss them.

Running MINI as a profitable enterprise, with Range Diversification and Target Market considerations is not lost on me - you'd have to be a total idiot not to see why they've made some of the moves they've made, but it doesn't mean that it comes without a cost - in more ways than one! The MINI Hatch was and is one of the best driver's cars you could buy at ANY price, to think of it becoming bigger and less 'capable' of doing all the things we value so highly, to be 'replaced' by a smaller version which will attempt to recapture those values just sticks in my throat a bit. Granted, it's not a 'logical' reaction, but since when has buying a MINI been a purely logical decision? If it was, we'd all be driving Clios...

If the Rocketman started at £8K, I'd maybe see the point, but I doubt that would fit in with BMW's 'Premium Product Pricing' ideas - they wouldn't want to make it look too cheap, as the perceived value would diminish the 'exclusive' appeal of the range. Ian said the Rocketman will probably eventually replace the R56 as the 'small MINI'. Maybe so, but whether it'll have the 'cohones' to get the petrol flowing in our veins remains to be seen. I fear we may lose the cherished values of the R50/53/56 and have in their place TWO new MINIs, neither of which do anything as well as the 'originals'.

[ELFMAN]

I have to say that I kind of disagree with almost all the negative comments about MINI in this thread. I can't understand how it affects current MINI owners and why you would be so upset when MINI launch a new derivative of the MINI brand. That said, the Countryman Coupe, to me, is the most utterly pointless car they've ever tested. Why not just buy a hatch? And there's nothing wrong with the Countryman 5 door in handling or looks so, what's the point? A.:D

Andy, I think most of the negative comments have been triggered by the proposed introduction of the Rocketman concept, not about MINI 'per se'.

If the Countryman Coupe is 'pointless', we can surely raise the same argument regarding the Rocketman Vs R56? "Why not just buy a Hatch?"

As far as the Rocketman affecting current MINI owners, the fact that whenever a 'new' model is released (in this case one which isn't that far removed from an existing model), it leads to a loss in value of the older model. It obviously happened to R50/53 values when the R56 was introduced. I think this is especially true of MINI, where the 'fashionable/first folks on the block to have one' element still plays such an important part in the purchasing decision.

I'm not upset at MINI's introduction of new models - I like the Coupe and the Roadster, and have eventually got my head (if not my arms) round the Countryman, but I think the Rocketman is simply a money-making reinvention of the Hatch, and therefore quite unnecessary.

[ELFMAN]

:tumbleweed:

[LadyR]

I just think that, well, land rover make land rovers, why dilute the brand by making every deviation of the car possible. There's an argument for variety but it just seems a sell out to me. Hmh.