Help needed urgently!!

[N16SHP]

Well dropped Kirsten's car off to get the tensioner done! JC's have said that they are not going to change the tensioner, and instead changed the oil and charging us £30 for the oil and £60 for there time for doing so as it's not under warranty. I'm fuming, where do we stand with this?

Also does any know what the latest fix is for the tentioner, puma what?

Any help will be much appreciated!

[ELFMAN]

Found this on the Web. If I remember rightly, I took the Part Number to Douglas Park in Hamilton last year, and they told me that there was actually a 'Version 4' fix, which they carried out, with no quibbles and I've had no recurrance of the problem since. I reckon the 'Out of Warranty' business is a Red Herring, as there's clearly a recognised fault with this part, and it's NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE. You shouldn't be expected to pay for this remedial work, as it's unreasonable that such a new car should have this sort of problem.

DID THEY FIX THE PROBLEM WITH THE OIL CHANGE, or are they just p***ing in the wind? DID THEY DISCUSS THE MATTER AND GET YOUR PERMISSION TO CARRY OUT THE WORK?


HERE'S THE WEB STUFF:

"Here's the latest on the morning start "death rattle" experienced by those with the turbo version of the '07-09 MINI engine. BMW has identified the timing chain tensioner (powered by an oil-pressurized piston) as defective. Two previous modifications (April '08, and Nov '08) were ineffective. The root cause is the tensioner piston not extending at all or just partially, allowing timing chain slack to drag on the chain guides on the engine front cover.

BMW has issued a repair specification to MINI dealers - SIM-11-02-07, released on 2/24/09. The part number for the new version 3.0 tensioner is 11.31.7.598.956. All affected cars will receive a redesigned timing chain tensioner which now includes a new spring to position the tensioner against the chain until oil pressure is adequate. In addition, all engines that exhibit excessive timing chain deflection will get a new timing chain, chain guides, rails, crankshaft sprocket, new camshaft bolts, and assorted bolts, seals and gaskets. The Vanos unit and camshaft sprockets are not removed unless damaged.

Here's an outside link to the parts diagram http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.do?model=MF73&mospid=50031&hg=11&fg=25
Based on numerous reports by MINI owners on US and UK-based MINI forums who have had this part installed, it appears this fix is indeed effective in eliminating the chain rattle."

HOPE THAT'S USEFUL - GO GET 'EM! :knife:

[Craig]

I feel for you Neil. I got caught out with something similar but mine cost me £150!! At jc's in Dundee .....

C

Hope you get it sorted.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gismo]

Unless you agreed to the oil change i wouldn't pay for it and especially if it doesn't cure the problem

[rabhrab]

I agree with the previous comments, especially regarding pemission to carry out unauthorised work. Did they tell you specifically that they were going to replace the tensioner, or were they more 'wooly' about it, saying they would fix the noise? I'm just hoping mine gets sorted first time, next week, as I'm out of warranty in four weeks!

[N16SHP]

The car is 3 years old but is a cherished mini so automatically has a years warranty, as we bought it in December! Not only that, the car was serviced and MOT'd the day we bought it (ie oil, coolant, washer levels we're checked and topped up) so your not telling me that a car is going to lose 2 ltrs of oil in 3 months, without burning blue smoke or anything!

They did the same to me and didn't charge me for oil or looking at the car, so why charge my fiancée 6 months later? Just total non-sense and I'm going to tell them that, and I'm most certainly not paying for it!!!

[ELFMAN]

As I said, IMO the Warranty issue is pure B*LL*CKS. And they shouldn't carry out any work without asking your permission - especially if it's not going to sort the problem. :frown:

If there is a faulty part, it should be replaced without question, as there is NO WAY that a product, in this case a MINI, should be sold with sub-standard or faulty parts. It's not an issue of 'wear & tear' and Warranty etc, these parts were Not Fit For Purpose from the minute the car was manufactured, and MINI have accepted this, so WHY should owners who have purchased in Good Faith, believing that BMW/MINI is a quality product, be penalised financially and psychologically for what is clearly the fault of the Manufacturer?

This is another example of customers doing Product Testing for MINI, who don't 'own up' unless pushed or threatened. There should have been a Recall for this part - where is it? I remember various 'fixes' for the Mk1 MINI, a couple of which involved actual safety concerns, which were only sorted when owners brought them to the attention of the Dealer - there were 'official' fixes, but no 'official' recalls. They're STILL at it !

Dealers need to wake up and smell the roses (or whatever you put on the roses) - if people part with their hard-earned and find they are being abused in this manner, they'll simply go somewhere else. So they should weigh it up, be NICE to your customers, do the fix, and absorb or claim the expense back from MINI, don't try and shaft the folks who are keeping you in a job... it's a short-term gain for a long-term loss.

I get SO p*ssed when I see a rip-off! :ragin::argh: (but you probably guessed that :smilewinkgrin:).

[N16SHP]

Thanks Euan, I'm now armed and ready to go!!

[ELFMAN]

Thanks Euan, I'm now armed and ready to go!!

INCOMING!!!!! Lock and Load Neil, Lock and Load!

[KenL]

This is ridiculous! Is this the same outfit that used to sponsor this site?

Anyway, if you check out this thread (my post ~2232!) you will see a list of all the bits changed on my car when I got the full repair.

http://www.mini2.com/forum/second-generation-faults-fixes/136105-mini-cooper-s-engine-noise-when-cold-149.html

Good luck & please keep us posted.

[G17RDY]

£90 for an oil change - They are having a laugh!!!

Best of luck - Fight your corner - Just simply refuse to pay any money, at the end of the day permission must be sought before works can be carried out and invoiced!

[N16SHP]

Well I'd say half of the battle was won. I went in and fought my corner. They claimed that the reason the bill was £90 was that £13 of it was for the oil, the rest of it was for the inspection of the car, and because no fault was found, they had to charge us for the inspection.

My response was, well if there wasn't a fault, why have you charged me £13 for oil?
-Because that was the problem we found causing the rattle.
So there was a fault then.
-No not as such, just that there was a low level of oil in the car which is poor maintenance on your behalf.
woh woh woh, we bought this car in December, from a BMW Mini dealer, the car was serviced and MOT'd the day we picked it up, I have the paperwork to prove it.
-Yes sir but you've got to understand the type of engine that is in it, it can use up to a litre of oil every 1500 miles.
Do I look like I was born yesterday, I have the same car as my fiancee, that made the same noise as this, to which I was told when I first came in it was a problem with the oil, then it was this, then that and on the fourth time of asking I finally got my timing chain and chain tensioner fixed...This is the problem I reported and asked you to fix, not 'does the engine have enough oil.' I know the car can't have burned off a litre of oil in less than 800 miles, so if it has, have you checked to see why the oil is so low, have you found the problem causing the oil to drain? (At this point the chap realised he was in for a fight.)
-Yes but sir, there is not a problem with the chain tensioner, its the oil level.
Ok, so you've said, so have you found the problem which is causing the oil level to drop?
-No
Well then, it's clearly not that then is it.
-Yes but sir, we couldn't find any problem with the car.
Ok fine, I tell you what, seems I never asked you to put the oil in my car, can you please go and take it back out again please?
-Well sir, you've clearly got a knowledge of cars, you know its not that simple.
I know that, you've clearly not got any knowledge of how to use a telephone, because all you had to do was lift one and press 6 buttons to find out if I wanted oil in my car. You've put something in my car off your own back without my permission, I'm not going to pay for it.

Blah blah blah, this goes on back and fourth until eventually I said right, I tell you what, a'l pay for the oil, and when I come back next week with the same complaint of a rattle on start up when the engine is cold, a'l take my receipt and get a refund for the oil you put in my car that it didn't need.

Seriously, we'd have sat there all night and gone back and fourth. When I asked to speak to the manager, even the manager didn't want to come and speak to me and said as a good will gesture, we'll not charge you for the inspection...TOO BLOODY RIGHT, YOU'VE CLEARLY FAILED TO DO ONE PROPERLY!

So it boils down to I unfortunately eventually blinked as they were not going to budge on the oil going in the car, so i've paid it, and now I've just finished my letter of complaint to Mini stating how appalled I am at how they're franchised dealer in the North East of Scotland is giving such terrible service, and how they have forced me to pay for something they put in my car without my permission and will not solve a recognised problem that they clearly know about, but have refused to do anything about!!!

The biggest thing that REALLY gets me wound up about this whole situation, is that they robbed me for £13, I wonder how many people they have robbed for £100! Needless to say, this saga is not over, round 2 begins tomorrow with a phone call to JC's stating I have a rattle on cold start up....

[Bazthemod]

The dealerships are rated on the customer service feedback call you will get in the coming weeks from BMW. They automatically call everyone who have had their car in for any reason.

When they call dont hold back and rate them the lowest score on every point. This report is printed off monthly and ranks the dealerships in order of service.

Should their average score come down mini customer service put pressure on them to buck up their ideas.

When I was on trial with a local dealership they were ranked very low and almost at threat of having the franchise rights removed!

Also make sure they are aware you plan to do this along with your letter of complaint ;)

[Gismo]

Good on you for not losing the plot and ranting and raving, which generally does not get anywhere, a constructive and well put point of view well delivered with facts etc will always win the day.
Anytime i ever put my car in to any garage (not a dig at JC's) is always check the oil level, if it's low i top it up, gives them no room, i also deliberately do not put any fluid in the washer bottle to ensure they top it up etc

[GCA3N]

Neil I am going out so I will make this brief make sure you get a video of the engine whilst it is making this noise. Good evidence I would suggest.

[euan]

The dealerships are rated on the customer service feedback call you will get in the coming weeks from BMW. They automatically call everyone who have had their car in for any reason.

When they call dont hold back and rate them the lowest score on every point. This report is printed off monthly and ranks the dealerships in order of service.

Should their average score come down mini customer service put pressure on them to buck up their ideas.

When I was on trial with a local dealership they were ranked very low and almost at threat of having the franchise rights removed!

Also make sure they are aware you plan to do this along with your letter of complaint ;)

If it's like where I'm doing some work at the moment (another car manufacturer), all the dealerships are on a massive print out on the wall and reported on all the time. Sales, complaints, customer service. Get the complaint in ;-)

[The Dogfather]

Is your car on MINI finance? If it is they are just a liable as MINI. That's how we secured a rejection of our blue Clubbie S and a new replacement.

Have a chat with Consumer Direct (or whowever does that in Scotland), it'll all come down to how long you've had the car etc. However, as this is a known issue then I doubt they'll be able to argue the fault didn't exist before you bought the car.

They'll probably also be interested in the fact they tried to charge you for work that was carried without your permission.

[ELFMAN]

Well done Neil! The £13 still bugs, not so much for the amount, but for the Principle. At least you showed them they weren't dealing with a patsy.

Well Done JC's in Aberdeen, alienating vast swathes of actual and potential customers in one afternoon. How much is THAT worth then?

[N16SHP]

Well done Neil!

Well Done JC's in Aberdeen, alienating vast swathes of actual and potential customers in one afternoon. How much is THAT worth then?

I think this is what gets me the most, for the sake of £13, they've lost potentially £20k of my business for a JCW, and I hope no one on here gives them any more money!!

[Colin]

I hate when garages argue with you, when you know your in the right.
Makes my blood boil. :argh:

Probably why I don't take mine to dealerships for servicing. But something like this you have to get it done by them, unfortunately!

[N16SHP]

Yeah, I have one TLC voucher left, and that's the last JC's will be seeing of my car!

[Delboy]

Well done Neil, you fought your case very well. What a lot of hassle when they should just have carried out the recognised fix.

Hope you crucify them in the letter to Mini...

[N16SHP]

Well well, wouldn't you know it, started the car up this morning, and a'l give you one guess as to what happened....

Needless to say I was half temped to go over to JC's and demand my money back for the oil as it's clearly not fixed the problem, as this was their grounds for putting the damn oil in in the first place.


On another note, does anyone know the address of where I send me letter to?

[Craig]

email it Neil to MINI customer services. Link is available on mini's website. It's customer.service@mini.co.uk

;)

[GCA3N]

Well well, wouldn't you know it, started the car up this morning, and a'l give you one guess as to what happened....

Needless to say I was half temped to go over to JC's and demand my money back for the oil as it's clearly not fixed the problem, as this was their grounds for putting the damn oil in in the first place.


On another note, does anyone know the address of where I send me letter to?


did you video it mate?

[KenL]

Your contract is with the dealer, so send a strongly (bu polite) letter to them.

No harm in copying it to MINI Customer Services and letting the dealer know you have done so.

[N16SHP]

Your contract is with the dealer, so send a strongly (bu polite) letter to them.

No harm in copying it to MINI Customer Services and letting the dealer know you have done so.

Oh believe me, I have no problems sending a copy of this letter to the dealer, as it clearly outlines how appalled I am, and I also personally state that the service manager refused to come out and speak to me when I asked for him. Everything in this letter is fact, and would love to hear what they say.

Greig, I haven't video'd it yet, however I will do tomorrow before I put it back in to get fixed.

I should really post a copy of my letter on here too for everyone to read, but it is just that, a bit of a read...if anyone want, I will put it up.

[GCA3N]

Defo neil be interested to see what you say and what their reply is.

[N16SHP]

There may be the odd grammatical mistake as it's not been fully proof read!!

Complaints BMW Mini UK.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to inform you of the appalling service that I received from my local BMW Mini dealer John Clark Mini Aberdeen. To begin with, I feel I must fill you in on all the details regarding where and when I bought the car.

I bought my R56 Cooper S (registered December 2007) from Blue Bell Wilmslow Mini in December 2010 with 24,064 miles on the clock. After driving the car home to Aberdeen, we realised there was a scratch that had not been touched up very well, so we contacted Blue Bell Wilmslow who were more than happy for John Clark to carry out the work re-spraying the whole door, and Blue Bell Wilmslow would pay for the work. They also posted out a new petrol filler trim part, which was not sitting right on the car. I must say before I go any further that the service we received from Blue Bell Wilmslow was absolutely outstanding, namely from our salesman Lewis Calcutt, and the saleman who was there in his absence when we picked up the car, Ollie.

However, after having the car home for a few weeks, I noticed that the car was making the ‘cold start rattle.’ At first I thought it was due to the extreme cold temperatures that we were experiencing, however when the weather turned milder, the ‘cold start rattle’ was still there. My fiancée is a member of Scotland’s largest BMW Mini owners club, New Mini Scotland, and experienced the same problem with his own R56 Cooper S (registered January 2007).

My fiancée took his car back to John Clark where he bought it in 2009, and spoke to the dealership about the rattle who were “not aware of any problems of a cold start rattle”. On his first visit to John Clark Aberdeen, they said that the car needed 2.5 litres of oil, and this what was causing the rattle. Believing the dealer to be right, after all they are the ‘expert Mini technicians’ he paid for the oil, somewhat curious at how a three-year-old car could lose 2.5 litres of oil without a patch on the driveway or burning blue smoke. Plus he’d only bought the car 4 months previous. On his second visit back they examined the car and said that it maybe the timing chain, but perhaps if he ran the car on V-Power this would solve the problem. Not happy with that, knowing full well that petrol would make no difference to the chain tentioner/timing chain unit he pressed for it to be changed. It was eventually replaced and the problem was fixed.

Move forward to February 2011, three months after picking up my own R56 Cooper S, I put my car into John Clark, reporting the noise coming from the timing chain/chain tentioner unit. I made sure they were aware that it was definitely the timing chain/chain tentioner fault as my fiancé has experienced it, plus knows of several cases with this same problem. John Clark requested for me to drop the car off the night before so that they could start the car cold in the morning. Upon dropping off my car they said there would definitely be no charge as this was to be done under warranty.

I received a phone call the next day saying that they heard the rattle, but the car was low on oil, so topped the car up with 1 litre of oil, as this should fix the problem. They also requested to hold onto the car until the next morning to start it cold again, and if the noise was still there, they would then replace the timing chain/chain tentioner unit. My fiancé again reminded John Clark that this is known not to fix the problem in any cases that he knew of, including his own.

We then received a phone call the next day saying that they had started the car and that there was no noise, so the car was ready to collect. However, because they could not find a fault with the car, we would have to pay £15 for the oil and £65 pounds for checking the car and not finding a fault. When my fiancé and I went to collect the car, my fiancée questioned why upon hearing the rattle, and putting oil in the car to fix the ‘problem’ we had to pay for a car check because they had not found a ‘problem’. They said that is was down to poor vehicle maintenance on my behalf. Not only is that rude, it’s also unjustified. The car is less than three months old. The day we bought it, the car was serviced and MOT’d therefore all oil, water and coolant levels would have been topped up by Blue Bell Wilmslow. They also tried to tell me that because of the type of engine the R56 Cooper S has, it’s very common for it to go through 1 litre of oil in 1500 miles. After a quick ask to my fiancé’s Mini owners club, no owner has reported needing to put in 1 litre of oil after 1500 miles.

As a good-will gesture, they agreed to pay 50% of the cost of the vehicle check, however we would still have to pay for the oil as this was down to poor vehicle maintenance and not that this was what was causing the fault they had claimed they could hear, then when questioned started to then hide from. After several minutes of questioning the reasoning for this charge, and failure to find a reason why the car was so low in oil after such little time, they reluctantly removed the charge for the vehicle check, but still insisted I paid for the oil, as this was a fix for the problem, and poor vehicle maintenance. I would also like it to go on record when I asked to speak to the service manager, he refused to come out and speak to me.

Two days on after my car being topped up with oil by John Clark, when I started my car, the rattle was still there. I am extremely annoyed, and not surprised that the rattle was still there, as I knew that the oil would not fix the problem. It’s well known that BMW Mini are on to their ‘third fix’ for the ‘cold start rattle’ problem, and there is even word that a fourth is now being used. We know from the car’s history that it has not received any of the ‘fixes’ issued by Mini, and how John Clark dismissed my fiancée’s knowledge of the fault considering his own experiences with the fault is disrespectful. I put my car into John Clark stating the fault, and believed that an experienced approved BMW Mini dealership would be able to find and rectify the fault.

It would be safe to say that my fiancé, myself, plus the whole of Scotland’s largest Mini owners club will no longer be giving John Clark Mini Aberdeen any business, as we feel that there is now no way that we can put trust into this dealer. I would also like it to go on record stating all the facts as they are, that my fiancé recently received a service under his TLC pack, and gave the dealer mostly a 5 star rating. However he now feels like he can longer stand by what he said, at how poorly we were treated by John Clark Mini Aberdeen and believes that because the car simply went in, was serviced and came out again, it would have been hard for them to get that wrong. I also feel aggrieved that I have paid £15 for oil that has made no difference to my car or rectified this fault.

My biggest concern is how many people are John Clark Mini Aberdeen coning by topping up their cars with oil, happily taking the money knowing full well this will not cure the problem they clearly know about, but refuse to actually let on they know about it when really pushed.

I look forward to hearing your response on this matter.

[GCA3N]

good letter mate, be very interested in seeing their response. I am actually really angry reading this TBH. I so hope they are made to eat humble pie.

[N16SHP]

good letter mate, be very interested in seeing their response. I am actually really angry reading this TBH. I so hope they are made to eat humble pie.

Well this is the thing that gets me, we're gonna have to go to JC's this week to get the chain tensioner fixed, and they're going to fix it, so why couldn't they just have done it in the first place. Now they are going to incur the labour costs of working on the car, when if they'd done it right in the first place, they wouldn't be out of pocket themselves. Just seems so stupid.

The biggest thing that annoys me is they always say, we plugged the key in and it said there was no faults with the car. It's obviously going to say that, it's a key, it cannot hear noises and rattles, because if it did, every key would be saying "get me out of this car, I cannot believe how many rattles this car has!!!"

[GCA3N]

Agreed Neil it's the fact that this is so widely known and they even done yours too. Please get a video of the start up in the morning, it's cold tonight so it should be rattling like mad in the morning.

[Sheilz]

This fills me with much confidence as Dougall is due a service very soon though to be fair to JC I can't think of anytime they've given me bad service. Good to hear you're getting the car fixed but agree it doesn't make sense for them to drag their heals about it.

[N16SHP]

Sheilz, don't get me wrong, I got my car serviced in December, and I put it in, got it back, no problems what so ever. It's when you have faults is when you see theirs!!

[N16SHP]

A little update:

Greig spoke to the service manager at HF in Glasgow, and guess what. If the car has the TLC pack, which Kirsten's does, then your car is entitled to FREE OIL TOP-UP's...So can anyone explain why I was charged £15 for oil????

[Craig]

A little update:

Greig spoke to the service manager at HF in Glasgow, and guess what. If the car has the TLC pack, which Kirsten's does, then your car is entitled to FREE OIL TOP-UP's...So can anyone explain why I was charged £15 for oil????

Incredible :thud: how to treat you customer like a feckin idiot :frown:


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[Forbes]

Bit of a hit and miss at Aberdeen JCs for me.

Parts dept = Useless (only use if needed quickly or hooped trying else where)
Sales dept = Useless (cheaper else where but never give me time of day)
Service dept = Good so far

[N16SHP]

Hmmmm, now I'm totally confused. The Mini website says: 2. MINI tlc covers the cost of the parts, lubricants and labour involved in all MINI servicing for 5 years / 50,000 miles, whichever milestone is reached first. It does not cover repair and maintenance items, such as tyres, brake pads, top-ups etc. Linky Linky (http://www.mini.co.uk/html/model_range/mini_cooper/servicing/tlc.html)

[ELFMAN]

The response to this recognised fault from SOME dealers is just baffling. It should be a complete 'no-brainer' when an owner presents the car with this complaint. Look at the negative publicity for JC's which has been generated by this 'head in the sand' routine.

Good letter, and glad you're hopefully going to get some satisfaction at last... fingers crossed.

[euan]

Hmmmm, now I'm totally confused. The Mini website says: 2. MINI tlc covers the cost of the parts, lubricants and labour involved in all MINI servicing for 5 years / 50,000 miles, whichever milestone is reached first. It does not cover repair and maintenance items, such as tyres, brake pads, top-ups etc. Linky Linky (http://www.mini.co.uk/html/model_range/mini_cooper/servicing/tlc.html)

I read that as any fluid top-up as part of a scheduled service is free, anything outwith a service is excluded and therefore chargeable.

It's still wrong that they did it without asking you first though.

[N16SHP]

Well got a reply from Mini...excuse my French, but what a load of bollox!

Dear Mr Stephens (It's Shepherd but a'l let you off)

Thank you for your email dated March 2, 2011, which you sent on behalf of your fiancée, and for your patience while I investigated this matter.

I am sorry that your fiancée's experience with John Clark Aberdeen has not been what we would expect from a MINI Approved Dealership. I understand that the level of service you received has prompted you to raise your concerns with us. We monitor the feedback we receive regarding all of our dealerships, including John Clark Aberdeen and I would like to thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. I was disappointed to hear of your experience and I can assure you that this is not what MINI UK aspires to as a company. MINI UK greatly appreciates feedback from our customers in relation to our dealerships and I would like to thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Owning a MINI should be a pleasurable experience. We,therefore, expect our dealerships to give customers a quality service and I am sorry that this has not been the case in this instance. Details of this contact have been noted under case number 1-6740971901, which will be used as part of our ongoing dealer auditing programme.

I have spoken to Mr Phil Angus, Assistant Service Manager at John Clark Aberdeen and he confirmed that no fault was diagnosed when they tested your fiancée's MINI. He also advised that the oil level is checked prior to any engine testing and that if it shows the level is below maximum, it is topped up to ensure there is no damage to the engine during the test.

I can confirm that MINI UK ensure all our vehicles are constructed to the highest build quality tolerances, utilising the best quality materials and leading edge technology. MINI UK take customer safety very seriously and for this reason we monitor the performance of all components used in our range. Where there is an established trend of failure of any component, we take the appropriate action in the form of either a quality enhancement or vehicle recall and I can confirm there is nothing outstanding for this vehicle.

Mr Angus recommended that if this fault occurs again at any time you should take a note of the outside temperature so that a pattern can be recorded to enable any dealership to see if the fault occurs at any one specific temperature or at a range of temperatures.

Once again, thank you for contacting MINI UK and please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further concerns.

Yours sincerely

MINI UK
Margaret ****ing
Customer Service Executive

[N16SHP]

I don't want to run the risk of going over the top here, but does Mr Angus want me to give him the weather forecast for the past two weeks? I think my only option is to print out all of the cases where the timing chain/chain tentioner unit has failed from my fellow members at New Mini Scotland (Scotland's largest BMW Mini owners club) and Total Mini (the UK's largest Mini owners club) and let Mr Angus see that I know fine well what the problem is and I have no idea why John Clark Mini Aberdeen are refusing to fix this. I have experienced the same problem with my own R56 Cooper S which John Clark fixed (eventually) so can you please find out why they are refusing to fix my Fiancee's Mini? I don't believe them when they say there is not a problem with the car. My fiancee and myself drive her car almost everyday and experience the problem, they heard the same noise the first day, put oil in it, turned it over and heard no noise, does that mean it's fixed? No it just simply means that it did not make the noise the one and only time the started it.

All that I have left to say on the matter is that I will do my level best to make sure none of my family, or friends go near John Clark's service desk. I will take my fiancee's Mini with it obvious problem to a Mini dealer who lives up to Mini's claim "Where there is an established trend of failure of any component, we take the appropriate action in the form of either a quality enhancement or vehicle recall". I also quote your original email stating that "Owning a Mini should be a pleasurable experience. We therefore, expect our dealerships to give customers a quality service." Well I am sorry but this is not happening.

Please do not take this personally as I realise that you personally have no control on how blind John Clark and BMW Mini UK can be about this well know and well documented fault.

Yours Sincerely

Neil Shepherd


What do I have to do to get them to fix it? My father works for the Press and Journal who we all know goes as far as the Western Isles, Inverness and down to almost Dundee. Do I really need to threaten them with bad publicity? I really don't want to do this as to me this is really arsey and not my style, but if that's what it's going to take...

[N16SHP]

**UPDATE**

Well after much coming and going, I finally went out, took a video of the car (or should I say tractor, as by now it sounded as if the engine was about to fall out of the car on some start up's) and went back to JC's armed with my video. I asked to speak to a guy from service, not a puppet behind a desk, and showed him the video to ask him what he thought. He instantly looked shocked at the noise and I told him that on the previous occasions this car had been in, I was told it was fine, and was told I was being charged for wasting JC's time. So we got the car booked in and handed it in yesterday. Got a phone call today saying that they are replacing the timing chain/chain tensioner unit and all the gearing's and mechs that go with it, so we're not getting the car back until Friday as they are doing a fair amount of work. My guess is it's to fix the damage that their negligence has caused to the car.

Will hold final judgement until Friday, but I'm happy that my persistence has finally paid off. Still never going to give JC's any of my money in the future, as I still think they are a shocking dealership. I have only dealt with David @ JC's Dundee in the past and his service was simply exceptional. I think its a shame that some other folk in their dealers couldn't take a leaf out of his book, and that Aberdeen's JC's is probably making the Dundee one look pretty bad :frown:

[Burple]

I have only dealt with David @ JC's Dundee in the past and his service was simply exceptional. I think its a shame that some other folk in their dealers couldn't take a leaf out of his book, and that Aberdeen's JC's is probably making the Dundee one look pretty bad :frown:


Well we'll see.. Mine's due a service in about 700 miles (gonna book it in after the Thistle Run). Couple of wee niggly things I'd like to have sorted before the end of the warranty, and it's had the start up rattle about 4 times in the last month and a half.. seems to be intermittent for now, but I don't want it to get worse or become expensive..

[Craig]

Good news they are taking the problem seriously but a real pain that you are having to push them.... Just the story with most dealers in my experience !!

[GCA3N]

well good news mate I have heard of a few folks having to take videos in to prove the noise. Hope all goes well for friday mate.

[AndyP & Lenore]

I'm not a huge believer in the words "the customer is always right", but I hate the approach "the customer must be wrong because we're BMW and we know best".

And to have to take video evidence in of a known inherent problem with these engines is absolutely disgraceful. You just wonder why in the world we still buy their cars.

Anyway, really pleased you're getting it fixed finally and properly. Let's hope this is the end of the rocky road you've had.

A.:thumbs up:

[The Dogfather]

Do you still have the video of the car making the noise?

[GCA3N]

You just wonder why in the world we still buy their cars.



A.:thumbs up:

I've asked that very question a few times Andy.


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[N16SHP]

Do you still have the video of the car making the noise?

I do indeed, how come?



You just wonder why in the world we still buy their cars.


A'l be totally honest, had it not been for meeting everyone on here, it's probably the Mini scene that's keeping me in a Mini, as if not, I'd probably have sold it about a year ago with the amount of problems I've had. I absolutely love my car, and the people I've met because of it, but I just feel like a bit of a sucker still driving and effectively promoting Mini, as I cannot stand the attitude of Mini UK, or fully understand the direction the brand is going, but that is a totally different topic.

[The Dogfather]

I do indeed, how come?

I'm thinking of collecting all the information/clips of the problem and creating a 'cold start' fact file on NM.

[The Dogfather]

A'l be totally honest, had it not been for meeting everyone on here, it's probably the Mini scene that's keeping me in a Mini, as if not, I'd probably have sold it about a year ago with the amount of problems I've had. I absolutely love my car, and the people I've met because of it, but I just feel like a bit of a sucker still driving and effectively promoting Mini, as I cannot stand the attitude of Mini UK, or fully understand the direction the brand is going, but that is a totally different topic.

Its the same for me, however I'm probably 100% certain that my next car won't be another R56/55 etc, this thread has made my mind up on that.

[N16SHP]

I'm thinking of collecting all the information/clips of the problem and creating a 'cold start' fact file on NM.

Once I get some spare time, and exams are over, a'l stick it up on youtube and send you a link.

[The Dogfather]

Thanks Neil, I might do a proper hatchet job on MINI by collating all the info on the net into one place and sending it to every motoring magazine/TV programme/newspaper.

Its about time MINI sat up and took notice of the issue and stopped treating their customers like crap.

[N16SHP]

There you go Paul. It starts sounding like a tractor at roughly 12 secs in.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D24zJsaYXko

[The Dogfather]

Can I be really cheeky and ask for a scan of the letter from customer services in PDF?

[GCA3N]

Wow Neil that sounds awful.

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[N16SHP]

Can I be really cheeky and ask for a scan of the letter from customer services in PDF?

I never wrote to them physically, everything was done via email, so what is copy and pasted earlier in the thread is the official correspondence that I received. But your more than welcome to copy and paste it and take it from here. After being so badly treated I have absolutely no problem helping anyone out with this matter.

[N16SHP]

Wow Neil that sounds awful.

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Your telling me. The first time we dropped the car off to John Clark's, apparently that was normal...aye right!!!! The car is back and so far is behaving itself, but luckily if the fault re-appears we have warranty until the end of the year but fingers crossed it doesn't.

[GCA3N]

Your telling me. The first time we dropped the car off to John Clark's, apparently that was normal...aye right!!!! The car is back and so far is behaving itself, but luckily if the fault re-appears we have warranty until the end of the year but fingers crossed it doesn't.

Good news mate.

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[The Dogfather]

NM now has a dedicated forum for this issue: -

R56 Cold Start Rattle Forum (http://forums.northernmini.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?115-The-R56-Cold-Start-Rattle-Forum)

I've added a link to this thread Neil as a warning to others, incidentally if anyone else wants to share their cold start problems feel free to post the details here (http://forums.northernmini.co.uk/showthread.php?5790-Had-the-cold-start-rattle-Post-up-your-experience).

[N16SHP]

Great work Paul...and sadly I think it will see a lot of use thanks to Mini's incompetency.

[The Dogfather]

Forum is now open to view by all not just members.

Once I have enough information I'll be contacting a number of motoring journalists to see if they'll take up the story.

[mikeythemini]

This issue is one of the reasons I am still in an R53 - I really should buy an R55/R56 to develop some stuff for it but just can't bring myself to do it

[N16SHP]

This issue is one of the reasons I am still in an R53 - I really should buy an R55/R56 to develop some stuff for it but just can't bring myself to do it

I was all set to buy an R53 until I test drove an R56...and after that, although the R53 drove better, the quality of the interior swung it for the R56. Wish I'd gone with my heart and not my head now!!