The breakdown of society thread - discuss

[AndyP & Lenore]

Started putting this in the COD thread, but it has wider implications, so thought I'd post it up here instead.

Time for a rant.

When I was getting Black Ops (Rated 18!!!) on Monday night at midnight I was in a queue of about 30 or 40 folk. Couldn't see the front of the queue, but shortly after they opened the tills, a mum and her two kids (about 10 years old maybe) walked past the queue line to leave the store - copy of Black Ops in mum's hand and the kids were very excited.

Kids were 10 years old and it was a frikking School night. And there's no way those kids were gonna go hame and go to bed, they'd be up all night playing and either told just to ditch school the next day or they'd be Zombies all day in class.

Then I was in Tesco's yesterday and the woman in front of me at the checkout was doing the same thing - bought a copy of Black Ops, gave it to her 10 - 11 year old son and said - here, don't tell anyone I bought you it.

Disgraceful. These parent's just don't give a sh!t about their kids.:frown:

Occasionally we'll get a parent in the cinema insisting their kid is over 15 to get them admitted to a 15 film. We stand our ground and if they really don't look 15 they just aren't admitted. If they bring us some ID - Young Scot cards are great for this, and it proves their 15 or over fine, we'll admit them. But I'm not losing my cinema licence just because some parents couldn't care less what their kids see.

A.:frown:

[Gismo]

Sadly done by parents who will do almost anything to keep the kids quiet instead of actively interacting with them, not all of course, but a fair majority.
Also, just as bad, it's a sign of the times and the way the universe is going.

Gotta think that in my youth if the same gadgets were available we'd likely be inside on headsets instead of kicking a ball etc

[ELFMAN]

Even worse when it's CIDER that the parents are buying for them! Lot of incredibly stupid people out there, who pass on their incredibly stupid genes to their even more incredibly stupid kids - and so it goes on. Thankfully there are still a lot of decent parents and decent kids out there, but it's the diddies who get most of the publicity.

What worries me more is the seeming lack of general Common-Sense which seems to prevail these days - exhibited by folks who you would think would know better. It's a kind of insidious creeping societal breakdown which goes hand in hand with the dumbed-down 'Strictly X-Celebrity Get me out of Here Factor' culture where, before you know it, people who aren't good at anything in particular and things which don't matter become more important than why we're a country at War and why your pension will be worth 23p a week by the time you retire... at 86.

BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID.

[Scottie]

were the kids not of because there was a three day in service thing this week? so maybe not a school night as such.

[Stewart]

Well I’m afraid I’m probably buying it for an eight year old. He plays outside fine in the summer and in fact to a knackering extent on a large trampoline with his friends. Rides his bike, plays with the dog and plays football.

Its changed days, I kicked balls off walls, done silly miles on my bikes, practically lived in the local park when playing but then we had one TV and pong in the house. Although I did with a friend spend many a night playing Elite on the BBC model B.
If I’d have had a 360 online I’d have been on it most nights that’s for sure. And what would I have been screaming for “ Black ops” in saying that I never got a lot or spoiled

Kid’s now go from there DS in the car to there 360’s with there large LCD screens in the house, but there is a balance. Simply put you can play fair with them and let them enjoy what we could only dream off. Should we let them play 18 certificate games, well there certainly not shocked and outsmart most at eight and ten for example on them.

I don’t know if the older kids are better blasting away online or standing around street corners at night. Laughingly the other night I said “ Look at that, in my day that would have been burnt, have graffiti all over it – what are the Kids like these days” to a set of new Bins on lampposts in our area.

[Doug_m]

In my case my mother would never let me have an 18cert game when i was 14. But then i played them all at other mates houses whether it was theirs or their older brothers, still saw them and to be fair we are all gonna see it at some point in life.

Look in the papers today, some 12 year old colombian kid, a drug barrons hit man, killed dozens. Doubt he's played any games or seen vicious movies. Worse than kids here still :lol:

Thing that matters most is that children know when gaming stops and reality begins.

[stoney]

well i played 18+ games before i was 18 GTA beeing the one but that did not make me want to steal a car and run over people :lol: and my mom and dad also got me boose from the supermarket but it was to drink in the house with my mates and im not an alcky now its done me know harm if any thing it stoped me from going out and drinking down the park under age and geting in to trouble so i think that so i think with in reason it fine as long as you make shure the kid understands the diffrence in a game and real life

but dont get me wrong i do think 10 is a bit young

[GCA3N]

Well Andy it's a great thread idea and if I get started I don't think I would stop.

Society is in my opinion breaking down. Family values, in fact all values are breaking down what was not acceptable 20 years ago, 10 years ago etc has slowly eaten into the acceptable and all of a sudden we turn on the tv at 5 0'clock at they are discussing sex.

Computer games as well as tv/mags/papers etc have the biggest contribution and blame IMO. Sex being at the centre of so many things.

I absolutely shudder at my Amy growing up in what already is a society crumbling at the foundations.

[GCA3N]

well i played 18+ games before i was 18 GTA beeing the one but that did not make me want to steal a car and run over people :lol: and my mom and dad also got me boose from the supermarket but it was to drink in the house with my mates and im not an alcky now its done me know harm if any thing it stoped me from going out and drinking down the park under age and geting in to trouble so i think that so i think with in reason it fine as long as you make shure the kid understands the diffrence in a game and real life

but dont get me wrong i do think 10 is a bit young

.....and the prosecutions rests.

:lol:

Just pullin yer plonker dude.

[Doug_m]

.....and the prosecutions rests.

:lol:

Just pullin yer plonker dude.

Bet he was pullin his plonker :L

[Stewart]

It is a mass media generation thats for sure, if it’s not on there phones, in the Magazines or the net. There followers of celebrity and all that involves. Media darlings are influencing and pushing there ideals and value on the kids too much these days, they tell them what they should be doing and when.

[GCA3N]

It is a mass media generation thats for sure, if it’s not on there phones, in the Magazines or the net. There followers of celebrity and all that involves. Media darlings are influencing and pushing there ideals and value on the kids too much these days, they tell them what they should be doing and when.

I read somewhere that Simon cowell was in the top 3 most know personalities of all time. Shocking.

[Stewart]

But did Simon cowell not invent Music? :smilewinkgrin:

[AndyP & Lenore]

were the kids not of because there was a three day in service thing this week? so maybe not a school night as such.

Not an in service day down here till today and tomorrow.

[GCA3N]

But did Simon cowell not invent Music? :smilewinkgrin:

Maybe.

[Scottie]

Not an in service day down here till today and tomorrow.

maybe they were from up this way on holiday down your way and were having a late night treat outing to get this game. LOL.

Working in an office with three other girls one aged 23 another 22 and the last 19 you soon learn just how much has changed. I guess they same will be said for the younger ones as well

[The Dogfather]

I think some of us should buy an island and create a new independent state.

[GCA3N]

I think some of us should buy an island and create a new independent state.

Let's by Arran. :0)

[The Dogfather]

Nah, the roads are in a terrible state. I think the Falklands would be better especially if they find oil ;)

[ELFMAN]

Couldn't we just rent it? Or maybe set up a squat... "Smash The System!" Sorry, that's the other 'Protest' thread!

[Neil - TXJ]

It is the parents decision if their child should or should not play these types of games. The issue is that this decision can only be made if the parent knows what's in the game. I will let my children play these games but only after I have played to make sure I am happy with the content and we often play these games together.

As with most things there isn't a simple right and wrong answer.

[GCA3N]

It is the parents decision if their child should or should not play these types of games. The issue is that this decision can only be made if the parent knows what's in the game. I will let my children play these games but only after I have played to make sure I am happy with the content and we often play these games together.

As with most things there isn't a simple right and wrong answer.

If it is certified 18 then surely it has been deemed unsuitable for under 18. Is that not fairly black and white, or am I missing the point.

[The Dogfather]

It is the parents decision if their child should or should not play these types of games. The issue is that this decision can only be made if the parent knows what's in the game. I will let my children play these games but only after I have played to make sure I am happy with the content and we often play these games together.

As with most things there isn't a simple right and wrong answer.

How old are your children and what games do you let them play?

[Bazthemod]

We were evacuated last night for 3 hours due to a fire at the shop and I was manning the front door until the fire alarm engineer arrived.

The amount of parents driving up with their kids trying to get in the shop was shocking lol. Even worse was the devastation written all over their faces as I explained we would not be trading again until tomorrow. They didn't give a **** about the fire or bother asking if anyone was hurt, they just wanted the game for their kids and it was all my fault it seemed!

It's all how your brought up in my view, im only 22 but have graduated with an honours degree, been in employment since i was 13, got savings tucked away and manage to pay my own bills and car without any help from my folks. I couldn't be any other way.

Looking at some of my peers at work for example who waste their wages on booze or are constantly smoking weed just winds me up. But that is normal life to them, its very sad.

[GCA3N]

We were evacuated last night for 3 hours due to a fire at the shop and I was manning the front door until the fire alarm engineer arrived.

The amount of parents driving up with their kids trying to get in the shop was shocking lol. Even worse was the devastation written all over their faces as I explained we would not be trading again until tomorrow. They didn't give a **** about the fire or bother asking if anyone was hurt, they just wanted the game for their kids and it was all my fault it seemed!

It's all how your brought up in my view, im only 22 but have graduated with an honours degree, been in employment since i was 13, got savings tucked away and manage to pay my own bills and car without any help from my folks. I couldn't be any other way.

Looking at some of my peers at work for example who waste their wages on booze or are constantly smoking weed just winds me up. But that is normal life to them, its very sad.

There's no doubt you have done well for. Yourself Baz and not taking away anything you have achieved but you obviously have been brought up well and learned to do what u have done through good examples from your parents which I am sad to say is missing in so many parents nowadays.

Also Baz, you and Ryan, ben etc are unfortunately not the norm for the younger generation. By the way that was a compliment as Kim says. "such lovely young boys" :lol:

Joking aside you guys are a credit to your generation.

[Bazthemod]

Awww lol To be honest theres lots of young people that have done well... but its the minority that spoil it.

Was same at school, the bad kids got more attention and got on better with the head teachers and other staff because they came so well known. They used to have a laugh and joke with the trouble makers and ignore us lol.

[Delboy]

If it is certified 18 then surely it has been deemed unsuitable for under 18. Is that not fairly black and white, or am I missing the point.

No Greig, you are not missing the point but have hit the nail squarely on the head in my opinion. If the game is certified 18 then it is not suitable for under 18s and should not be given to under 18s by their mis-guided parents. To think that 10-year olds are playing that game disgusts me.

You want to hear the grief I'm getting off Michael for not buying it for him :frown: (he's 15 for all those who won't know). I'm sticking to my guns (excuse the pun :hand:) on this one, even although apparently ALL of his friends are getting it ...:rolleyes:

[AndyP & Lenore]

No Greig, you are not missing the point but have hit the nail squarely on the head in my opinion. If the game is certified 18 then it is not suitable for under 18s and should not be given to under 18s by their mis-guided parents. To think that 10-year olds are playing that game disgusts me.

You want to hear the grief I'm getting off Michael for not buying it for him :frown: (he's 15 for all those who won't know). I'm sticking to my guns (excuse the pun :hand:) on this one, even although apparently ALL of his friends are getting it ...:rolleyes:

Thats the trouble Del, too many parent will just cave on this, simply because it's easier to do than stand their ground.

No doubt your lad will end up playing it at his friends house though.

Having spent a fair bit playing it online this evening, it's nothing like as "bloody" as Modern Warfare 2" though, so I can only imagine it's because the single player game has some nasty stuff in it to make it a 18.

A.

[stoney]

No Greig, you are not missing the point but have hit the nail squarely on the head in my opinion. If the game is certified 18 then it is not suitable for under 18s and should not be given to under 18s by their mis-guided parents. To think that 10-year olds are playing that game disgusts me.

You want to hear the grief I'm getting off Michael for not buying it for him :frown: (he's 15 for all those who won't know). I'm sticking to my guns (excuse the pun :hand:) on this one, even although apparently ALL of his friends are getting it ...:rolleyes:


so you are saying your son wont be allowed a drink before he is 18 you saying on his 17th he wont be allowed a bottle of beer cos its the same thing IMO
the Games have an age limit due to the content witch it asks you at the start of the game if you want to view the Graphic materail or not so its easy to remove a lot of it and the rest is down to bad languge now im shure kids of 15+ will here and use the same kind of words on a daily baices

[GCA3N]

No Greig, you are not missing the point but have hit the nail squarely on the head in my opinion. If the game is certified 18 then it is not suitable for under 18s and should not be given to under 18s by their mis-guided parents. To think that 10-year olds are playing that game disgusts me.

You want to hear the grief I'm getting off Michael for not buying it for him :frown: (he's 15 for all those who won't know). I'm sticking to my guns (excuse the pun :hand:) on this one, even although apparently ALL of his friends are getting it ...:rolleyes:

Thanks del. More parents need to stand by their ground and say no it's all about the small things. You let one thing go and then there's another before you know it there are no boundaries.

I firmly believe that children thrive on boundaries and rules it teaches them that this is how life is. The problem you have is when kids don't have this they think this is how life is. It might seem trivial now like when u teach ur child to say please and thankyou but it works out for the future.

In my limited time in the police I never once took a child back to their home or called a parent into the police station and thought afterwards that's strange they were good parents and that was a good stable family home. Now I am not for one second saying that kids from good stable homes don't go astray but the old saying the apple rarely falls far from the tree is pretty apt most of the time.

Stoney as far as drinking goes from memory children can drink in the home from the age of five.

But outside, this rises to 18 for people consuming alcohol in licensed premises. However, teenagers having dinner with an adult can drink beer, wine or cider from the age of 16.

[Doug_m]

Look at katy perry(love of my life), she was brought up in a strict christian home and was only allowed to listen to gospel music. What has she done? Rebel.
Now shes married to one of the biggest twats out...

Strict isnt always good, there needs to be some sort of understanding, thats how teenagers become mature.

[Stewart]

Tell you what did happen they lost a generation with that no smacking politically correctness gone mad bill. Teachers, Parents, and general authority including police had no chance when the kids decided they were untouchable even as young at eight as you’ve seen on TV. When the kids knew that if you touched them you’re the one going down it was game over.

And I mean this in the general everyday parenting sense and not the actual other side of the coin of actual child abuse that cant be tolerated.

[GCA3N]

Look at katy perry(love of my life), she was brought up in a strict christian home and was only allowed to listen to gospel music. What has she done? Rebel.
Now shes married to one of the biggest twats out...

Strict isnt always good, there needs to be some sort of understanding, thats how teenagers become mature.

Like I said no said hard and fast rules, and there will always be acceptions to the rules.

Secret to bringing up children are Rules, stability and lots of love dead easy.

Can I ask you dug do u have kids btw?

[GCA3N]

Tell you what did happen they lost a generation with that no smacking politically correctness gone mad bill. Teachers, Parents, and general authority including police had no chance when the kids decided they were untouchable even as young at eight as you’ve seen on TV. When the kids knew that if you touched them you’re the one going down it was game over.

And I mean this in the general everyday parenting sense and not the actual other side of the coin of actual child abuse that cant be tolerated.

Brilliant point stewart. The thing people forget is child abuse was always illegal so why did they think stopping smacking would stop it.

Can u imagine the conversation

"damn we can't abuse, beat up and neglect our children anymore they have made smacking illegal"


Aye right.

[Neil - TXJ]

Thanks del. More parents need to stand by their ground and say no it's all about the small things. You let one thing go and then there's another before you know it there are no boundaries.

I firmly believe that children thrive on boundaries and rules it teaches them that this is how life is. The problem you have is when kids don't have this they think this is how life is. It might seem trivial now like when u teach ur child to say please and thankyou but it works out for the future.

In my limited time in the police I never once took a child back to their home or called a parent into the police station and thought afterwards that's strange they were good parents and that was a good stable family home. Now I am not for one second saying that kids from good stable homes don't go astray but the old saying the apple rarely falls far from the tree is pretty apt most of the time.

Stoney as far as drinking goes from memory children can drink in the home from the age of five.

But outside, this rises to 18 for people consuming alcohol in licensed premises. However, teenagers having dinner with an adult can drink beer, wine or cider from the age of 16.

I totally agree with this however I struggle to see how the multiplayer version of cod is rated 18 in my opinion it's content is nowhere near what you get in a 15 movie let alone a 18.

[Sheilz]

Rules, boundaries, role models, respect which of course works both ways and as Dug pointed out these are not fully effective without listening and communicating. Along with that though I also think its good to teach your kids to stand up for themselves with adults, to learn to negotiate, to learn to take risk otherwise children of autocratic parents can be just as vulnerable as those of a laissez-faire disposition.
Good news though, despite Andy's impression about the majority of the juvenile population being almost a lost cause, the reality is that is way off the mark. The majority of kids are like Baz, Ryan and Ben. They may not all be able to afford minis at the age of 22 but they will have their own benchmarks for achievement. Even the ancient Romans moaned like hell about youngsters being defiant, wayward and out of control. The environment changes, people don't. Back in those days the kids would've been taken to see the gladiator fights. No doubt they'd think modern kids are right softies with exposure to violence being simulated rather than the real macoy.
Have to say though I see no purpose whatsoever in these blood and guts games. Personally I think they're a bit moronic and have never bought one for anyone in my life, banned them from the house until the boys were old enough to be spending their own hard earned cash. When I worked in a residential school I insisted that one particular game which encouraged the player to hunt down and kill prostitutes (cant for the love of me mind what it was) was removed from the school. It just astonished me that I had to point out that this really was not appropriate material for youngsters who had rather different ideas about relationships, boundaries etc should be allowed this kind of stuff. Experiments in US has shown that even well adjusted adults have their aggression levels heightened after playing these games so heaven alone knows what kids make of it.

[GCA3N]

I totally agree with this however I struggle to see how the multiplayer version of cod is rated 18 in my opinion it's content is nowhere near what you get in a 15 movie let alone a 18.

Awe that's back on topic :lol:

Seriously though that is a different argument. But it's like what I said before, what is acceptable and not acceptable has changed and with all the violence and sex portrayed on tv film and computer games we become more and more immune to their effects. By that I mean it takes more and more to shock us. Maybe you answered your own question in saying a 15 rated film is worse. The film industry is being going for along time and I think the ratings have dramatically changed. I watch some films with fir example a 12 rating. They have scenes of a sexual nature or violence etc and think I cant believe that is a 12. Maybe computer games are just in the early stages of this in a few years games like this won't shock anymore and their ratings will drop. Soon it will only be hardcore games that will adorn the 18 rating.

Anyway rant over it's sleepy time. Besides typing all this on a phone is hard work.

[Sheilz]

Brilliant point stewart. The thing people forget is child abuse was always illegal so why did they think stopping smacking would stop it.

Can u imagine the conversation

"damn we can't abuse, beat up and neglect our children anymore they have made smacking illegal"


Aye right.


Smacking children is wrong. When an adult teaches a child to deal with conflict by smacking them what message are they giving? If you're angry you hit the person who made you angry? Someone doesn't do what you tell them so you get them to obey by smacking them? Smacking is bullying of children by adults. Exchange the child for another adult and you've got yourself a criminal record. The alternative to smacking is of course harder work but ............

[AndyP & Lenore]

Smacking children is wrong. When an adult teaches a child to deal with conflict by smacking them what message are they giving? If you're angry you hit the person who made you angry? Someone doesn't do what you tell them so you get them to obey by smacking them? Smacking is bullying of children by adults. Exchange the child for another adult and you've got yourself a criminal record. The alternative to smacking is of course harder work but ............

Sorry Sheilz, couldn't disagree more.

I understand the area of your expertise, you see the worst of society and the results of that. But all through growing up me and my siblings were hardly ever smacked, and the simple reason for that is because we knew it could happen if we stepped out of line too far. If we knew it wasn't an option for our parents I'm pretty sure we'd have been a far more disruptive family.

It's not fair to say that because smacking is allowed, that every child will associate anger and disapproval with violence, and this is therefore bullying.

I realise there are some in society who perhaps can't recognise the fine line between smacking and abuse and I don't have an answer for what to do with those. Don't let them breed in the first place, I guess.

I wonder how many others are gonna post up here and say "I was smacked as a kid - did me no harm".

A.

[The Dogfather]

You don't need smacking simple things like restriction of toys, freedom etc. if applied consistently bring the same results.

Smacking a child is lazy and wrong

[Delboy]

so you are saying your son wont be allowed a drink before he is 18 you saying on his 17th he wont be allowed a bottle of beer cos its the same thing IMO
the Games have an age limit due to the content witch it asks you at the start of the game if you want to view the Graphic materail or not so its easy to remove a lot of it and the rest is down to bad languge now im shure kids of 15+ will here and use the same kind of words on a daily baices

Rob, I never mentioned anything about drinking so why bring that into it :confused:? I thought we were talking about Black Ops and 18-rated games.

Believe it or not, my wife and I are not complete dinosaurs and both of our sons want for very little. Michael (the 15-year old) has a very active social life through school friends and through the BB where he plays table tennis and football, and he skis regularly at Xscape. He also plays drums in a band and has actually performed in the O2 Academy in Glasgow. Naturally, we support him in all of these activities and are his personal taxi drivers into the bargain.

He has had almost every video games console (including hand-helds) as they were released and has a laptop, iPod Touch and contract mobile phone. He also (and most importantly IMHO from this list) is doing very well at school.

I don't think that by not allowing him to play 18-rated video games in our house that I am being unfair, harsh, cruel, pedantic or a bad parent.

I'm sorry if I have ranted a bit. I react like that when it appears that I am being criticised for trying to do the right thing for my kids.

(As a side note, I quite fancied buying Black Ops for myself (yes, I even play the PS3 :rolleyes:) but that WOULD be cruel on my son so I've decided not to buy it.)

[GCA3N]

Rob, I never mentioned anything about drinking so why bring that into it :confused:? I thought we were talking about Black Ops and 18-rated games.

Believe it or not, my wife and I are not complete dinosaurs and both of our sons want for very little. Michael (the 15-year old) has a very active social life through school friends and through the BB where he plays table tennis and football, and he skis regularly at Xscape. He also plays drums in a band and has actually performed in the O2 Academy in Glasgow. Naturally, we support him in all of these activities and are his personal taxi drivers into the bargain.

He has had almost every video games console (including hand-helds) as they were released and has a laptop, iPod Touch and contract mobile phone. He also (and most importantly IMHO from this list) is doing very well at school.

I don't think that by not allowing him to play 18-rated video games in our house that I am being unfair, harsh, cruel, pedantic or a bad parent.

I'm sorry if I have ranted a bit. I react like that when it appears that I am being criticised for trying to do the right thing for my kids.

(As a side note, I quite fancied buying Black Ops for myself (yes, I even play the PS3 :rolleyes:) but that WOULD be cruel on my son so I've decided not buy it.)

Del get to asda for the game £36. Pretty cheap.

[Delboy]

Del get to asda for the game £36. Pretty cheap.

This is a joke, right?! Or did you just not read my post correctly?

[Gismo]

As a side note, I quite fancied buying Black Ops for myself (yes, I even play the PS3 :rolleyes:) but that WOULD be cruel on my son so I've decided not buy itDo you do other "adult" things that your son can't do, wondering why you picked on a game, say if you had a drink in the hosue wouldn't that be cruel to your son :Whistle:

[stoney]

Rob, I never mentioned anything about drinking so why bring that into it :confused:? I thought we were talking about Black Ops and 18-rated games.

Believe it or not, my wife and I are not complete dinosaurs and both of our sons want for very little. Michael (the 15-year old) has a very active social life through school friends and through the BB where he plays table tennis and football, and he skis regularly at Xscape. He also plays drums in a band and has actually performed in the O2 Academy in Glasgow. Naturally, we support him in all of these activities and are his personal taxi drivers into the bargain.

He has had almost every video games console (including hand-helds) as they were released and has a laptop, iPod Touch and contract mobile phone. He also (and most importantly IMHO from this list) is doing very well at school.

I don't think that by not allowing him to play 18-rated video games in our house that I am being unfair, harsh, cruel, pedantic or a bad parent.

I'm sorry if I have ranted a bit. I react like that when it appears that I am being criticised for trying to do the right thing for my kids.

(As a side note, I quite fancied buying Black Ops for myself (yes, I even play the PS3 :rolleyes:) but that WOULD be cruel on my son so I've decided not buy it.)


it the same kind of thing 18 is 18 so if you will not let him play an 18 video game then you should not let him drink you are saying its ok son you can get pissed but not play a video game thats got a bit of blood and stuff in it to me that is the pot calling the kettle black

i never said you where out of touch in any way !!!!

i just think that peeople say some thing and then go and do some thing that contradicts it totaly

so what i am saying is with in reason its its ok to let your kid play an 18 game or have a drink they are more set out as gyde lines IMO dont get me wrong i would not be leeting a 10 year old drink or play cod but at the age of around 14/15 i think its ok to start to introduse them to this type of think with in reason i would allways play the game first and know not to give the kid a 1/2 bottle of vodka if it was drink !!!

[Burple]

I read somewhere that Simon cowell was in the top 3 most know personalities of all time. Shocking.

That, more than anything, is the most disgusting thing I've heard in a very long time!

[Delboy]

Do you do other "adult" things that your son can't do, wondering why you picked on a game, say if you had a drink in the hosue wouldn't that be cruel to your son :Whistle:

Well, one reason is that he's not pestering the life out of me to drink my beer :lol:.

I think it would be uneccessarily cruel to buy Black Ops for myself to play when I know that he is dying to have the game - it just would seem that I'm rubbing his face in it. This decision is not because I object to the game, I just don't think it is suitable for 15-year olds.


it the same kind of thing 18 is 18 so if you will not let him play an 18 video game then you should not let him drink you are saying its ok son you can get pissed but not play a video game thats got a bit of blood and stuff in it to me that is the pot calling the kettle black

i never said you where out of touch in any way !!!!

i just think that peeople say some thing and then go and do some thing that contradicts it totaly

so what i am saying is with in reason its its ok to let your kid play an 18 game or have a drink they are more set out as gyde lines IMO dont get me wrong i would not be leeting a 10 year old drink or play cod but at the age of around 14/15 i think its ok to start to introduse them to this type of think with in reason i would allways play the game first and know not to give the kid a 1/2 bottle of vodka if it was drink !!!

I understand your point Rob, I do. I'm not perfect and maybe I contradict myself if I let him do certain things but not others. You need to draw a line somewhere IMHO with these type of things whether it's drinking, video games, movies, time to be back in, etc.. Maybe I let him off more lightly with other stuff (not drinking btw :hand:) than I do with the video games - it's not easy getting the balance right with teenagers. For a start, they always think the whole world is against them regardless of what you do for them :rolleyes::laugh:.

I didn't realise that you could filter out some content in Black Ops - maybe that could be a compromise position :confused:? I will look into this :thumbs up:.

[GCA3N]

This is a joke, right?! Or did you just not read my post correctly?

Just trying to put some light heartedness into the thread. That's my best today sorry to say.

[GCA3N]

Do you do other "adult" things that your son can't do, wondering why you picked on a game, say if you had a drink in the hosue wouldn't that be cruel to your son :Whistle:

I think the point there is Alan maybe Michael isn't bothered about drinking etc but he is desperate for the game and it would be cruel to buy it knowing how much he wanted it.

[GCA3N]

That, more than anything, is the most disgusting thing I've heard in a very long time!

Isn't it just, I think ant and dec were one and 2, :lol:

[Delboy]

Just trying to put some light heartedness into the thread. That's my best today sorry to say.

Thought that :thumbs up:

[GCA3N]

I am going to say something and those not having their own children might disagree. But until you do you really have little idea of what it's like. Yes we were all kids at one point but the challenges of a parent and raising your children to be good upstanding hard working well balanced adults is THE hardest Job in the world. I have only had 7 years at it and have not scratched the surface and even although my 7 year old girl wants to be 16 I have not come close yet to what I am
Likely to experience in the teenage years.

I Know Derek and his family better than most and with ease I can say that his children are are credit to him and Valerie (aside the wee logging onto Nms incident :lol:) but to get to the position he is in today I know it has been a tough journey with countless challenges along the way.

Not for a second am I saying we can't all have an opinion but really until you have been there to pick them up when they fall, to console them when they break their heart, to teach them wrong and right and all the other unwritten stuff that comes with parent hood, then you really don't have a clue. Please take that the right way, I don't have a clue what I will do when Amy starts asking what sex is or brings home her first boyfriend but I'll sure give it my best shot and learn as I go.

I guess what I am saying is each decision we make with our children with the best will in the world is made as each event happens. I know what I want to say when something happens but it rarely works out that way. I know how I want my kids to turn out but I don't have a manual to tell me the best way.

On side note great thread and it's good to have debates like this.

[Delboy]

I Know Derek and his family better than most and with ease I can say that his children are are credit to him and Valerie (aside the wee logging onto Nms incident :lol:) but to get to the position he is in today I know it has been a tough journey with countless challenges along the way.


Thank you sir :thumbs up:.

And what you said - totally agree and I hope everyone takes it the way it is meant. Bringing up kids is a neverending learning curve - as you get over some challenges, a whole bunch of new ones come along :rolleyes:.

I also didn't get a manual with my boys :argh: :lol:.

[GCA3N]

I also didn't get a manual with my boys :argh: :lol:.

You wrote the manual with your boys....:lol:

[stoney]

i under stand what both Greg and dell are saying but i also think there are a lot worse thing out there than a video game !!!!

and yes i dont have kids but at the same time i know the way i would want to bring up my kids and would like them to turn out better than me as i have done alot of stuff im not proud of in my younger years

i turned out not to bad i have a wife,flat and a nice car and @ 27 years old i dont think thats 2 bad i moved out my moms and dads @ 21 and stood on my owan 2 feet since then i work hard and live my life to the best i can do and i have been told i am a credit to my famirly (well in the main :lol:)

im not trying to say dell is in the wrong for not letting his son have COD BO he is the one that has to make the choices for HIS kids and that is what it boils down to !! if dell dose not want his boys playing the game thats dells choice but at the same time

what do you think will happen when he go's round to his mates house that has a copy of said game do u realy think he is going to turn round and say my dad says im not allowed to play that game ?? i know 1 thing i would not say that i would sit down and have a game or 2 :lol:

so why not get him the game over see him playing it and makeing shure he understands its a game and not what you do in real life

i was out using real ammo at 15 with the army cadets on fireing ranges and going to anual camp where there was a lot worse things going on than a PS3 game !!

[Doug_m]

Can I ask you dug do u have kids btw?

No dude, im only 21. Im just out of my teens and know how it is growing up now a days.
My dads a church of scotland minister and was quite strict in my early teens but i respect him and his beliefs. He brought me up well(i think) because he didnt let me off with hissy fits or give me everything i wanted.





I can see the younger generation getting worse and worse. Every year they get cheakier and more arrogant.
New apprentices at work for example, think they can please themselves at anytime of day.
Doesnt work like that, kids need to realise that they cant have there own way all the time and thats it!

Its almost as if some parents just dont want hastle from the kids so get them what they want, thats where its wrong.

[GCA3N]

No dude, im only 21. Im just out of my teens and know how it is growing up now a days.
My dads a church of scotland minister and was quite strict in my early teens but i respect him and his beliefs. He brought me up well(i think) because he didnt let me off with hissy fits or give me everything i wanted.






I can see the younger generation getting worse and worse. Every year they get cheakier and more arrogant.
New apprentices at work for example, think they can please themselves at anytime of day.
Doesnt work like that, kids need to realise that they cant have there own way all the time and thats it!

Its almost as if some parents just dont want hastle from the kids so get them what they want, thats where its wrong.

Well that's a very mature approach and balanced answer, and acyually spot on. We have 2 or 3 young guys (20-24) and tbh there just as bad, think they know the lot. Anyway I guess your parents taught you well ;)

[AndyP & Lenore]

Its almost as if some parents just dont want hastle from the kids so get them what they want, thats where its wrong.

Well said Dug. And tbh, was the main point of the thread.

As most of you know, we've no kids so I wouldn't dream of criticising Dell or Greig's child-raising skills. But Lenore and I feel like we have raised about a hundred teenagers from 16 to 18 ish as they come to work for us in the cinema. They can be a challenge that's for sure. And quite how their parents put up with them I really don't know.

Now here's where I contradict myself. After playing cod bo for a while I can't see what makes it an 18. It's violent, yes, but no more than any 15 rated violent action film in the cinema.

Dell, the last cod game had the option to filter some content too, but that was more to do with the 'tone' of one part of the game where the player "you" were tasked to commit mass murder in an airport. I didn't find it disturbing in the least but it got a lot of bad press at the time. Don't think the "filter" option will stop the blood spurts from folks when they are shot.

A.

[Doug_m]

Well that's a very mature approach and balanced answer, and acyually spot on. We have 2 or 3 young guys (20-24) and tbh there just as bad, think they know the lot. Anyway I guess your parents taught you well ;)

Thank you :)
Being my age i still like a laugh and get upto mischeif. Nothing better hehe.
Just little twerps ruin things for others :/

[audrey]

Think its a bit harsh to assume that people who have no kids don't have a clue:confused: I don't have kids but I have three nephews who are all in their late teens and they have been a big part of my life since they were babies.

One thing I do know is don't be too judgemental about other peoples teens as you never know what the future holds.

On the subject of 18rated computer games surely its up to the parents to judge if these are suitable for their kids. I personally wouldn't buy one for a 10 year old btw.

[Sheilz]

Sorry Sheilz, couldn't disagree more.

I understand the area of your expertise, you see the worst of society and the results of that. But all through growing up me and my siblings were hardly ever smacked, and the simple reason for that is because we knew it could happen if we stepped out of line too far. If we knew it wasn't an option for our parents I'm pretty sure we'd have been a far more disruptive family.

It's not fair to say that because smacking is allowed, that every child will associate anger and disapproval with violence, and this is therefore bullying.

I realise there are some in society who perhaps can't recognise the fine line between smacking and abuse and I don't have an answer for what to do with those. Don't let them breed in the first place, I guess.

I wonder how many others are gonna post up here and say "I was smacked as a kid - did me no harm".

A.

I suspect you give the threat of a smack too much credit. I'd put money on it that it was the quality of parenting that stopped you being disruptive. Not everyone I come into contact with beats their kids senseless, very few in fact, however those who let them please themselves for peace are in all likelihood the same ones that will clout their kids. I wholeheartedly agree with Paul. Smacking is the lazy option. When you hit a child you've lost control and run the risk of making them a bit devious to avoid punishment rather than encouraging them to be honest and able to admit they've been up to mischief.
Other aspect to that is how an adult can tower over a child threatening violence and not feel like a complete a*se seeing fear in their eyes.

[AndyP & Lenore]

I suspect you give the threat of a smack too much credit. I'd put money on it that it was the quality of parenting that stopped you being disruptive. Not everyone I come into contact with beats their kids senseless, very few in fact, however those who let them please themselves for peace are in all likelihood the same ones that will clout their kids. I wholeheartedly agree with Paul. Smacking is the lazy option. When you hit a child you've lost control and run the risk of making them a bit devious to avoid punishment rather than encouraging them to be honest and able to admit they've been up to mischief.
Other aspect to that is how an adult can tower over a child threatening violence and not feel like a complete a*se seeing fear in their eyes.

I know what you mean Sheilz, and don't get me wrong, I've seen some parents literally lay into their kids in the past and that is just wrong on every level.

And you're are spot on with the quality of parenting. We all had a terrific upbringing in some very difficult times.

A.

[Delboy]

Dell, the last cod game had the option to filter some content too, but that was more to do with the 'tone' of one part of the game where the player "you" were tasked to commit mass murder in an airport. I didn't find it disturbing in the least but it got a lot of bad press at the time. Don't think the "filter" option will stop the blood spurts from folks when they are shot.

A.

Thanks Andy, I heard about the airport level in the last game and that you could elect not to have that level appear in your single player campaign. Still to check out what you can filter (if anything) in Black Ops.

[Mon the fish]

Don't let them breed in the first place, I guess.

A.

Spot on. Too many stupid people having even stupider kids these days. Evolution is supposed to be about survival of the fittest, improving the breed etc. Not for humans sadly - we must be the only animal getting dumber, and allowing stupidity to continue :frown:

[Crombers]

NMS is alive & well after all, phew!!!!

A bit of debate with feeling as opposed to the other daily 'look at me' p***

Good stuff :thumbs up:

[Sheilz]

NMS is alive & well after all, phew!!!!

A bit of debate with feeling as opposed to the other daily 'look at me' p***


Good stuff :thumbs up:

What your saying is normally we all post sh*te LOL

speaking of which does anyone else think that Wullie boy's engagement has been timed to hide vile news? Was just thinking to myself his old man's engagement and wedding happened when Thatcher was busy destroying society and here we are again with another bunch of Thatcherites but this time with an agenda to mend the 'big society'. The wheel has come full circle? 900 local authority jobs being axed in Aberdeen and we're just small fry compared to some of the larger authorities like Strathclyde etc. N'ot funny but think I maybe ought to check the tent is in good condition.