Absolutley disgusted at NMS User Antihero3000

[AndyP & Lenore]

This person bought our leather dash and downtubes which appeared in our recent sale of items stripped out of our red MINI.

The sale and price were agreed by PM on 30th August.

Yesterday, Thursday 2nd September, the goods were delivered by me to a friend of Antihero3000 in Tranent. We were in the Edinburgh area to hand over to Antihero3000 himself but he was unable to make the meet so he asked if we could drop off at his friends house. We were prepared to do this as the sale had gone smoothly and it was only a 40 mile detour from our route.

We have just seen on a thread on MINI Torque that Antihero3000 himself put the same goods up for sale two days before we even delivered them. AT A PROFIT OF £50 OVER WHAT HE PAID US FOR THEM.

Perhaps I'm a bit naive but I didn't think people in the MINI community and especially on NMS in particular would do such a thing to another member.

I accept that antihero3000 has done nothing illegal, but morally this makes me sick.

If he had purchased the goods, then a few days later decided, for whatever reason, they were not for him and put them back up for sale for the same price he paid for them I would not have blinked an eyelid. But it's quite clear to us, we were being used to make a quick buck from, taking advantage of our good nature.

So, a warning to ALL NMS users... You would be well advised to be very careful doing any kind of sale or purchase with this user.

Someone clearly hasn't heard the phrase... "You don't sh!t in your own backyard!"

Absolutely disgusted.

A.:ragin::sad:

[Livi]

Andy,

Regarding your items, its also happened to myself when i had my 75% sale happening.

2 chequered mirror caps were up for sale for something insainly cheap and i recieved a text from a member (not naming names) asking the details on who bought my ones and then made aware the ones i sold were being sold at full retail on another forum a day or so later.

[Stewart]

That’s a bit off I have to agree, I’d like to think if I was buying anything from a member on here they were Selling at a decent price hence a wee bit grateful of a good deal.

I know you must feel its a sort of Member to Member slap in the face.

[GCA3N]

Not so good Andy not good at all. I had a similar thing when I sold craig's exhaust. I bought it through craig's silent auction for charity and it's no secret I got it for £75 :blush:which I kinda felt bad about but it was an auction and no one else made a bid:yes nod:.

Anyway the thing is when I recently sold it I could have easily asked for any thing up to £150-200 but though it was ethically wrong. Even after I told Craig about it he said "don't be silly get what you can for it" I never.

I actually think this could be worse though and like you say putting it up for sale before even receiving it is well out of order, especially as you went out your way to hand deliver it.:frown:

Anyway I can sell you a very nice R53 leather dash thing I recently came across £450 and it's yours.:Whistle::lol:

[Scottie]

it's annoying that he managed to make a profit of £50 he should've just said to you that he was selling them on .......as long as he paid your asking price without any problems.

I've had the very same thing happen to me from a member on here they bought something from me and then sold on a few months later via ebay and they made a good profit

However they paid me the price I asked for so I can't complain.

[AndyP & Lenore]

it's annoying that he managed to make a profit of £50 he should've just said to you that he was selling them on .......as long as he paid your asking price without any problems.

I've had the very same thing happen to me from a member on here they bought something from me and then sold on a few months later via ebay and they made a good profit

However they paid me the price I asked for so I can't complain.

It's a timescale thing too Fi. If he'd had the dash for a few months and then sold it on, I'd have no reason to argue with it, no matter what he got for it. Honestly, I don't even remember what I paid the Fossies for the bits. I seem to remember there were some Opera tickets in the deal. But we've added the leather down tubes to the pack as well, which we didn't get from the Fossies.

But this guy has clearly thought he'd take advantage of the fact I was clearly asking too little for the dash, and thought he'd make a quick buck out my naivety.

A.:frown:

[Scottie]

aye it's annoying as I said he should have said and then leave it you whether you wanted to make the sale to him.

[Flash_Amber]

What an underhand thing to do! Like you said, if he'd bought them and then changed his mind fair enough but to post them up for sale before he'd even got them was a calculated move. Not good!

[Delboy]

Hmm, tend to agree with you Andy - NMS members really shouldn't do this kind of thing to each other :frown:.

Unfortunately, some folk in this world are always looking to make a quick buck at other people's expense and, in my opinion, it says something about the type of person that they are.

[Craig]

I did think that someone that had lost his job (which is crap). Didn't have the money to buy this but it would appear he was selling them on.... Again not the way to conduct yourself but he slags off nms on mini torque any chance he gets ... :frown: my advice... Don't sell anything to him or buy anything he has to sell... ;)

[audrey]

Not nice at all :frown:

[zimbo]

...he slags off nms on mini torque any chance he gets ... :frown: my advice... Don't sell anything to him or buy anything he has to sell... ;)

Thats disgusting what he has done, NMS is a brilliant place for very nice people who try to help each other if and when possible etc etc and it is not a place for people who act like this, selling items on before they have even GOT the items from anyone else. AND as for Craigs post about this guy slagging NMS off on another website, thats just totally out of hand, he should just p*ss off and go else where coz we certainly DO NOT want his type on this forum. You mods should just get rid of him. :ragin: (For the slagging!!)

[camjay]

Not nice!!!

[antihero3000]

As much as I appreciate the chance for you all to gather round and give me a hard time i've done nothing wrong here.

1) I have lost my job. I was laid off three weeks ago and this is my last week of garden leave. It's not an easy time for me and members on here deciding otherwise doesn't make things any easier.

2) I bought the dash fair and square. I paid the asking price and I paid on time. I in no way messed the seller about. It was sold because I decided to free up some cash and didn't want to go back on the agreement we'd made. I sold several other parts from my car including my recaros, exhaust manifold, wheels, etc due to my job situation. The dash was up for £300 as I expected to take an offer on it, which I did. Yet another assumption that has been made without asking me for the facts.

3) I also bought the mirror caps fair and square from JC's. I paid the asking price and I paid on time. They were sold because I swapped my car for one with power folding mirrors which meant they would no longer fit. By the time they were shipped out very little if any profit was made.

I'm not sure why NMS members feel it's necessary to start a thread complaining about me. No one has bothered to speak to me in person and I haven't messed anyone about or taken advantage of their good nature. If anyone feels like I have PM me and we'll sort it out. Otherwise can a mod please close this thread?

[AndyP & Lenore]

I didn't once complain that you messed me around, that you didn't pay or that you didn't pay on time. Payment was immediate when delivery was on it's way to you, and you didn't argue about the price.

My complaint is the underhand way in which you "sold" our items for a higher price before you even "bought" them from us. This wasn't simply deciding to "free up some cash", it was deliberate profiteering on the good nature of a fellow MINI owner.

My complaint about this doesn't lie with the transaction itself, my complaint lies with your principles and the way you clearly purchased the goods in order to profit from them immediately.

I'm not prepared to PM you about this at all, I would prefer our discussion was held in public for all to see.

And as I'm an Admin on this site, no I'm not prepared to close the thread either.

A.

[R32GTR]

I don't see what all the hoo haa is about, i do this all time albeit with land and commodities 90% of the time i don't even see what im selling.

The chap has lost his job which is never nice and had clearly had to see a lot of bits of his car which he would have rather kept who cares if he makes a bit of cheeky profit on them he £300 isnt bad for all that lot considering its not made any more, if anything its your fault for under pricing them some people get ahead in life some people take a loss i know which id rather be.

[Delboy]

...if anything its your fault for under pricing them some people get ahead in life some people take a loss i know which id rather be.

:frown:

Thanks for the heads-up. I won't be doing any deals with you, just in case you are trying to "get ahead in life" at my expense.

[N16SHP]

I don't see what all the hoo haa is about, i do this all time albeit with land and commodities 90% of the time i don't even see what im selling.

The chap has lost his job which is never nice and had clearly had to see a lot of bits of his car which he would have rather kept who cares if he makes a bit of cheeky profit on them he £300 isnt bad for all that lot considering its not made any more, if anything its your fault for under pricing them some people get ahead in life some people take a loss i know which id rather be.

I think the biggest problem with it all, is that Andy wasn't under selling, he could of stuck it on fleabay and made more money, but he gave us, his friends the first bite at the cherry. I know that if I bought something from another user, even if I didn't like it or want it anymore, I wouldn't then try and make a profit out of it. I think the worst part is that he didn't even own the parts yet, thats the bit that's annoyed Andy.

And just for a heads up, there is more to life than money! And its clear that he's 'gotten ahead' financially but 'taken a loss' when it comes to respect, and I know which i'd rather have!

[AndyP & Lenore]

I think the biggest problem with it all, is that Andy wasn't under selling, he could of stuck it on fleabay and made more money, but he gave us, his friends the first bite at the cherry. I know that if I bought something from another user, even if I didn't like it or want it anymore, I wouldn't then try and make a profit out of it. I think the worst part is that he didn't even own the parts yet, thats the bit that's annoyed Andy.

And just for a heads up, there is more to life than money! And its clear that he's 'gotten ahead' financially but 'taken a loss' when it comes to respect, and I know which i'd rather have!

Neil, thank you for your reply. I couldn't have put it better myself.:thumbs up:

A.:D

[ELFMAN]

I'm genuinely sorry Antihero has lost his job, been there, and it's obviously not good, and is at least a mitigating circumstance - needing the cash from selling the bits on, but if they were sold on for more dosh even BEFORE Andy had 'delivered' them at his own expense and time, well... it might have been decent to get the 'final purchaser' to pick them up from Andy and save him the hassle, or maybe offer to split the difference with him for that hassle. I think that's Andy's point.

I am pretty certain 'R32 GTR' was going to take some of my bits at one stage - R53 Exhaust rings a bell... he at least expressed a serious interest, but it came to nothing. The 'land and commodities' deals - fair do's, that's his business, but he's surely not saying that buying parts on NMS from your 'fellow members' (who are doing the deal in good faith usually at knock-down prices) and selling them on for profit is OK? This 'Screw you, I'm in it for the money' attitude SUCKS and doesn't really have a place in NMS. Pure 80's Thatcherite Sh**e. Best of luck with if you're ever genuinely looking for parts on NMS, I'd be surprised if anybody would deal with you for fear that you're trying to make a quick buck at their expense. 'Hoo' and indeed, 'Haa'.

[Crombers]

Mmmmmmmm a bit of 'evil' doings I see, my 'pantomime' instincts have been 'aroused' somewhat :yes nod:

Wonder what I could fetch for Fi's 18" Hamanns :rolleyes: , hardly a mark on them ;)

Might some 'fool' start the bidding at say £1800 :Whistle:

[ELFMAN]

I have some priceless antiques I bought for a tenner from an old blind lady - should be able to punt them for a few grand, well, it's the 'Free Market' innit? Winners and losers and all that eh? Also one slightly soiled, but mainly unused, Conscience up for grabs. Now where's that Parliamentary Expenses form for getting my castle laminated?

[GAJ]

I don't know if there is more to this than mets the eye, but I think this thread is pretty unfair.

IMO, site admins really should think long and hard whether they are abusing their position here.

Again, IMO, if Andy had a problem with this, he would have been better off trying to resolve it with Antihero behind closed doors. This public flogging thing should have been abandoned in the middle ages, and is arguably as bad, if not worse, than making a couple of quid from selling things on - especially given the mitigating circumstances. And anybody that knows me, will know that I am as far away from a Thatcherite, capitalist, out for myself, money maker as you are ever likely to meet.

I would also disagree that there is a particular spirit of altruism here, with people regularly offering things for sale at much below their market value. If you figure in the inconvenience and overheads like fees and postage, and risk of chargeback etc. associated with selling on eBay, for example, the prices asked here are not considerably different from what would be the net price achieved there.

IIRC, at least part of the items being dicussed here were sold to Andy from another forum member. In the spirit of fairness and openess, would it not be reasonable for Andy to disclose how much he purchased those for and the estimated value of the scuffed downtubes included in the sale to demonstrate that his price was in anyway indicative of good naturedly (if that is a word!) offering a bargain in an altruistic community. This would at least allow other forum members to comment from a more informed and balanced viewpoint.

Even if this is proven - does it really warrant this public naming and shaming without, as far as I can determine, any attempt being made to resolve this between the two parties that have a legitimate interest. The emotive language and baying of the crowd by those with the power to decide what is and what will not be published, and the refusal to attempt to resolve or even discuss the situation in private - that really is disgusting.

I fully understand that Andy has explained that his main gripe is the timing and his belief that Antihero was trying to make a couple of quid all along. But really - lets see this all reasonably it's really no big deal - and certainly did not deserve the amount of vitriol expressed by this thread. All in IMO.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Gaj, you've missed the point entirely.

After making a complaint to the site owner regarding Antihero's behaviour, the site owner felt unable to take direct action due to this one incident. He then asked me to post up what had happened, so I did.

This post was started purely as a warning to other NMS members with advice NOT to do business with Antihero3000. It was not started with any attempt to "resolve" any issues with Antihero, because there is nothing to resolve. He's done what he's done and that can't be changed. But there was no way I was going to allow him to dupe me and not warn other NMS members about what he has done.

It's also fair to say that after deliberately profiteering on my good nature, there would be NO way in hell I would discuss anything with this guy in private. Any ongoing discussions regarding this situation can be carried out here in public. I have nothing to hide.

Any following posts in this thread agreeing or disagreeing with the original post have been made by the respective member, I didn't ask for them.

As for the price we paid for the dash. It was two years ago and was included in trading other parts/event tickets for the dash, so honestly, we can't remember what we paid for it. However, that's not the point. If Antihero had owned these items for a couple of years and decided to sell them on I wouldn't bat an eyelid if he asked £500 for them - if that was what the market was commanding at that time, good for him, he's made a profit. You are quite correct that what irked me more than anything was the timing, and that he had SOLD these items at a profit before he even BOUGHT them from me.

In closing, no matter what your opinion, I feel I have conducted myself in a fair and mature manner throughout this whole ordeal, and your description of me as "disgusting" I take quite personally.

A.

[ELFMAN]

Can I clarify that my 'Thatcherite' remark and the 'comic' one above was in direct response to R32GTR's following comment:
"if anything its your fault for under pricing them some people get ahead in life some people take a loss i know which id rather be".
which I thought was hard-nosed and went against the ethos of NMS.

I think the main warning from this 'unfortunate incident' is that it could jeopardise the 'For Sale' section on the Website. (Presumably if you're getting rid of items in the 'Free' section it might not matter so much if someone's then going to take on the task of making something out of it, as you just want shot of the stuff).

I must make it clear that this is a general observation, and is not aimed at anyone in particular.
Whenever money's involved in any organisation, be it for fees, bills, or in our case, Items for Sale, there is an inherent risk of suspicion, disappointment or grievance rearing its ugly head. When you're selling items which are actually worth a decent amount of money, I have to say I would price them differently if I thought they were going to be used by an NMS 'friend' for their car, as opposed to someone who was maybe just looking to take advantage of the friendly nature of NMS to make a quick profit. I would rather GIVE AWAY something of value to someone I liked and respected than feel that I had been 'taken a loan of' as we say in Lanarkshire. If there's a suspicion that the NMS member you're selling to (thinking it's for their own use) is taking part in the 'deal' with the sole intention of, say, punting the item straight onto E-Bay for an extra fifty quid (which you've maybe taken off in good faith for a fellow NMS/MINI fan), then that's killing the whole 'spirit' of what we're trying to do here, and we should just sell all our stuff on E-Bay and price them accordingly.

I found it quite disturbing, and not a little annoying that R32GTR seemed to suggest that 'naive' NMS members were fair game for those of a more 'mercenary' outlook in this type of transaction. NMS members have a responsibility to ensure that their actions not only ARE up front and honest, but that they are SEEN to be so. It's not just what you do (which might be perfectly acceptable to you), it's also how people PERCEIVE what you're doing. This would hopefully avoid 'misunderstandings' in future, and preserve the good nature which we all enjoy in NMS. Without that, we might as well pack it in.

[GAJ]

I've not missed the point. You may be too close, and to angry, to see this in a balanced way though. :-)

I really don't understand how you think you were duped. You offered an item for sale unconditionally and it was bought. The new owner can do what they like with it. Being a bit peeved that they maybe made a couple more quid than you did is one thing, but all this...

I agree that what you paid is an irrelevance - but no more so than what the new owner did with them after you agreed to sell to him.

I used the word disgusting, as you did initially, quite deliberately, not to upset you, but in the hope that you would see how out of proportion your reaction has been. To make a post like this really isn't very nice, no matter the circumstances, and I would hope that this would not be encouraged if a similar circumstance occurs in the future. That it was started by an administrator makes it worse. Whether a third party suggested it as a course of action or not is not relevant, it was your decision to turn that suggestion into action, but I would question the wisdom of that suggestion. It kind of flies in the face of the kind of community you quite rightly want to build. No matter what the truth of Antihero's action two wrongs don't make a right, as any mother will tell you!

Anyway, what's done is done. Mountains and molehills!

[R32GTR]

Well i am an out and out tory boy so theres my confession, but lets look at this subjectively.

Anti hero did not attempt to sell them on NMS did he, he sold them on what i can see is his home forum and to their members, there is no site rules against this on here or there from what i can see.

You all have two choices, put up and man up and stop putting bitchy threads like this up, or change your site rules.

[AndyP & Lenore]

My initial post stands. This was meant as a general warning to all users about Antihero3000's motives when buying or selling.

Clearly his buddies are going to defend his indefensible actions, I would expect nothing different. But it doesn't change the way I feel.

GAJ, how would you have felt a couple of years ago after I had agreed to buy your Mac, before I even paid for it and picked it up, you found it on eBay for £100 more?

A.

[AndyP & Lenore]

I've sent a PM to the site owner asking him to close this thread - I could do it myself, but I would rather it was his decision.

I think it's served it's purpose and as much as I stand firm on why I posted it in the first place, I'm concerned it's going to turn into a public slagging match and that was never the intention.

A.

[Delboy]

Well i am an out and out tory boy so theres my confession, but lets look at this subjectively.

Anti hero did not attempt to sell them on NMS did he, he sold them on what i can see is his home forum and to their members, there is no site rules against this on here or there from what i can see.

You all have two choices, put up and man up and stop putting bitchy threads like this up, or change your site rules.

This is you being subjective? :laugh:

Andy didn't say the guy broke any rules but that he acted in a way that is not generally acceptable to the membership of NMS and is against the spirit of the For Sale section. Clearly you don't agree with that view and that's fine but don't start telling us to "man up" or change the rules.

Perhaps you should stick to your own "home forum" where the members are obviously more commercially aware and less bitchy :rolleyes:.

[Gismo]

As Andy has asked for this thread to be closed, so be it.
I've deliberately stayed out of this but was happy to let it run it's course.

It's fair to say that both sides of this debate were being aired, in public and it didn't get overly heated or end up in a direct slanging match.
That's not to say that it wouldn't if left open.

I'd appreciate that if either of the parties want to continue the discussion that they do so in private.

As owner, i feel i have to be impartial and in this case both sides had a point to make and each side had their supporters, not a split down the middle, but support for each side was there.

I did approve AndyP to post in the first instance and have no qualms about that decision.

It has thrown up a grey area that is open to be misinterpreted and i for one would prefer that folks felt comfortable when posting items for sale.
I agree that what happened here was not illegal or against site rules, as there are none covering this, to be honest the site is self governing and i know that's not the correct way to be in this politically correct world and i don't want that to change.

This is the first time i've come across this situation on NMS in over 7 years and feel that "our" community generally helps each other and i can understand the frustration of someone when an item is deliberately purchased whilst it's being advertised elsewhere.
Where, makes not a jot of difference.

I hope this doesn't put anyone off posting items for sale in the future.