When is a JCW not a JCW?

[Colin]

If a MINI has JCW badges on it, does that mean it has the 211hp or are there other kits that can be bought from MINI that come with the badges? Just wondering cos a friend bought a 57 plate cooper s with JCW badging on it, but I was looking on the cherised MINI site and it has no mention of being a JCW.

[stoney]

well it could be a stuck on badge the best way to tell is look under the bonnet and there will be a badge with a works tuneing kit number on it and if its that age it should be a 210 kit one there will be a jcw badge on the air box if is a jcw if not it will just be a mini badge also if its a jcw the should be a certificate with the car

[Stewart]

I’ve not looked really too much into this but this is my take on it.

There a Factory Works that come out as it suggests all built up and kitted out from the factory.

I think there are then Cooper S that are Fully kitted out at the dealers with all the kit and are then certificated Works with the tuning kit etc on it.

I may be totally off here…..

[stoney]

I’ve not looked really too much into this but this is my take on it.

There a Factory Works that come out as it suggests all built up and kitted out from the factory.

I think there are then Cooper S that are Fully kitted out at the dealers with all the kit and are then certificated Works with the tuning kit etc on it.

I may be totally off here…..


you get a certificate with one from the factory the only diffrence that if it come from the factory was the JCW brakes

[GCA3N]

Stewart your right mate. If we talk about the latest R56 Mini's you can buy these now directly from the factory as JCW's. The badge will be on the right hand side at the back. There are quite a few differences from the standard cooper S apart from the looks ie body kit, the engine is slightly ungraded to cope with the extra BHP. I also believe that the turbo on the factory JCW is more powerful.( I think) The brakes are ungraded too and it comes with sports suspension as standard. There are other peices of equipment that also come standard on the factor JCW.

You can also buy a cooper S and have the garage put on aftermarket JCW products, generally exhaust, induction, body kit and sometimes brakes. They will have the cooper S logo on the right and the JCW badging on the left.

I am sure the more knowledgeable mini folks will correct me if I am not correct.

[GCA3N]

you get a certificate with one from the factory the only diffrence that if it come from the factory was the JCW brakes

I thought the engine had a few differences stoney when coming as a JCW from the factory.

[Colin]

The car in question has a JCW exhaust fitted, would that be enough to get the badges if that was fitted by the garage?

[GCA3N]

The car in question has a JCW exhaust fitted, would that be enough to get the badges if that was fitted by the garage?

I am not sure but I would not have thought so. They are easy to come by though loads of sellers on ebay selling badges. I know of people who badge their Cooper S's after putting one or more JCW products on.

[stoney]

The car in question has a JCW exhaust fitted, would that be enough to get the badges if that was fitted by the garage?


is it an R53 ???? or an R56 as i was talking about R53 not R56 can not help with the R56 elf man is the one to ask as he has had the jcw kit added to his

[Colin]

is it an r53 ???? Or an r56 as i was talking about r53 not r56 can not help with the r56 elf man is the one to ask as he has had the jcw kit added to his

r56

[Colin]

I've not seen it in the flesh yet so can't have a poke around. My friend just sent me a couple of pics.

[Stewart]

I’ve got a feeling if the dealer has listed it as an S then its just probably had a few pieces of kit added to it but not regarded as a Works. I’d imagine putting the plate through an insurance web site will list the car in the “find your car” part.

Plus your mate must have it on the V5?



Unless he's trying to pull your leg its a Works.

[Forbes]

Mine is a dealer JCW, I think. It doesn't come up on anything as a JCW

[Stewart]

I take it if its a dealer Works it must have the engine kit
Certificate to qualify?

[Livi]

The car will have a conversion number with it, its usually the current selling dealer that deals with the conversion unless the owner at the time has maybe waited a few months/years to put one on?

The car will have a serial number in the engine bay area stating its a JCW but you should notice the difference straight away as soon as you power down

[Mon the fish]

If it's a 57 plate it'll be an R56 (unless it's a cabby)

R56 dealer JCW has the engraved tips, and some basic engine upgrades (induction, ECU and exhaust) - this is what AndyP has I think, 197bhp.

R56 factory JCW has the brembos etc, and non-engraved tips, 211bhp.

Sounds like this car is a dealer JCW, also I don't think the factory JCW was available on a 57 plate? Could be wrong

[Mini Ecosse]

The car in question has a JCW exhaust fitted, would that be enough to get the badges if that was fitted by the garage?

Yes it would.
I got badges when I fitted JCW exhaust to Parklane

[GCA3N]

Yes it would.
I got badges when I fitted JCW exhaust to Parklane

I never knew that either.

[GCA3N]

If it's a 57 plate it'll be an R56 (unless it's a cabby)

R56 dealer JCW has the engraved tips, and some basic engine upgrades (induction, ECU and exhaust) - this is what AndyP has I think, 197bhp.

R56 factory JCW has the brembos etc, and non-engraved tips, 211bhp.

Sounds like this car is a dealer JCW, also I don't think the factory JCW was available on a 57 plate? Could be wrong

I noticed that on the exhaust tips and wondered why there were no JCW engravings on mine. Does the factory JCW not have slight differences in the make up of the engine, linings gaskets etc, to cope with higher BHP?

[RyanK]

I noticed that on the exhaust tips and wondered why there were no JCW engravings on mine. Does the factory JCW not have slight differences in the make up of the engine, linings gaskets etc, to cope with higher BHP?

Yes the Factory JCW has a larger Turbo and the actual Engine Components were worked on/upgraded by the BMW M team. I had the article somewhere that indicated this but now i've lost it ha.

[GCA3N]

Yes the Factory JCW has a larger Turbo and the actual Engine Components were worked on/upgraded by the BMW M team. I had the article somewhere that indicated this but now i've lost it ha.


That's what the dealer told me Ryan but I wasn't sure if he was just saying that or he knew his stuff, guess he did. I guess that would maybe explain no start stop on mine and even if I drive it 20 yards the engine cooling/fans stay on for a while after stopping it.

Cheers Ryan.

[Bazthemod]

Won't need to tell the difference soon... MINI has killed off the JCW kit for Cooper S

http://www.motoringfile.com/2010/08/31/mini-kills-jcw-engine-kit/#more-13086

[GCA3N]

Won't need to tell the difference soon... MINI has killed off the JCW kit for Cooper S

http://www.motoringfile.com/2010/08/31/mini-kills-jcw-engine-kit/#more-13086


Very interesting Baz. Variable valve timing too. mmmm.

[ELFMAN]

In my opinion if your car comes from the FACTORY as a 'JCW', kitted and badged-up, it IS one. If it's an R56 S with JCW bits dealer-fitted afterwards, then it's an upgraded S, and NOT a JCW model. I think MINI has maybe ditched the JCW Kit as there wasn't enough 'clear water', performance-wise, between the standard Factory JCW and the 'upgraded' JCW-kitted S, especially now that the 'new' R56 engine has more power.

At the moment as far as I know, the mechanical engine differences between mine and the standard 'Factory' JCW are the JCW's strengthened internals, bigger turbo, I think the induction feed pipe into the Airbox and maybe a few other wee electronic tweaks - so the power difference won't be that big, but the POTENTIAL to further tune the Factory Works car will be greater because of the stronger Engine and bigger Turbo etc. How many JCW owners will take advantage of that is an unknown.

After the JCW Suspension's fitted, I'll probably have spent the equivalent £££ that I would have on a standard factory JCW, but that was in my own time over a year and a half and the bits I have 'over' the Factory JCW are Drilled front Discs, JCW Recaros and next week sometime - the full JCW Suspension kit - none of which come as standard with the Factory car. (I also got a great deal at the time 'from stock' on my new S, which I couldn't have with the JCW). Mine also doesn't have the clever Elctronic Differential of the JCW, but it does have a mechanical Limited Slip Diff. So G3 ELF is maybe a 'Semi-Works', or is it just just an R56 with a semi?

I have deliberately NOT fitted the 'Works' badging, as I don't want to advertise the fact that it isn't standard (apart from the Exhaust, which can't be helped), I also think the badges are being used 'cosmetically' on quite a few MINIs that may not actually have been 'officially' upgraded (and have the wee certificate signed by Mike Cooper) - fair do's, I don't have a problem with that, but I feel it could detract a wee bit from the 'special' nature of the badge and its historical significance - however tenuous these days! But the fun is arguably to be had in how the car goes, and not necessarily the badge it wears.

Funny, I thought the R56 engines already had, along with all sorts of other clever modern techno stuff, some form of Variable Valve Timing, obviously I was wrong.

[GCA3N]

As ever a great write up, some great points, you really should write for a living.

Think u could be right about factory JCW being tuned further. TBH I don't feel the need to go further tuning wise but then again I think if I started I wouldn't stop. I guess it's all down to how much cash you are willing to spend.

[Forbes]

Remap it Greig. Hear it works wonders

[ELFMAN]

Cheers Greig, Re. Writing - I wish....

I know (William's Dad) Brian's JCW (now sold I think) was putting out, if I remember rightly, 270+BHP and 280-ish Ft/lbs Torque or something mad like that with induction mods and a remap. It went LIKE STINK, the way it closed gaps (or opened them up) was a sight to see on the way to and from Oxford this year. Mine feels quick enough - my brain can only accelerate so fast..... I'm looking to upgrade my mind at some stage though.

Only thing I'd like to do to my car in future would be to fit a big 'Forge' Intercooler - that's meant to be a good mod. Whether you're in an R53 or an R56, it's all about getting lots of cold air in and lots of hot gas out!

[Mon the fish]

If I had a turbo'd car, I would be seriously looking at a remap to release some extra power. So easy to do, and on modern turbos much less risk

[GCA3N]

Remap it Greig. Hear it works wonders


If I had a turbo'd car, I would be seriously looking at a remap to release some extra power. So easy to do, and on modern turbos much less risk


That's all very well but I have a car with 500 miles on the clock and 5 years warranty and servicing how on earth could I remap and not effect the warranty. Unless dealers do remaps?

[clubman0_1]

got a cooper S with jcw upgrade kit. only differance between mine and a jcw is bodykit for a start, red brembo front calipers and 191 bhp as opposed to 211bhp. brembo's are the big alloy red one with jcw on the. jcw also have red coloured standard calipers on the rear. dashboard is a funny patern thing on a jcw. exhaust has big tail pipes as its a different rear section. they don't say jcw though. its just a bit more free flowing. kit commes with a different rear section and it has bolt on tail pieces and they do have jcw logo. believe they up the boast on a jcw slightly thus making power hike possible. regards the engine internals put a slighly thicker crown on piston and install an oil spray pipe to cool piston crown due to increase in boost. ford do this on 2 litre zetecs. mapping is different to provide correct fueling as well. JCW also have a ridgid induction pipe. air box is change on both. jcw's also say that on log book where a cooper s says cooper s.

i personlally paid £250 more from the dealer for a cooper s with about £6500 jcw of extra's on it second hand (carbon dash, steering wheel, handles, gearsknob, mirror caps, bonnet scoops, boot hand, r109 split rims and engine upgrade) and would sooner have this than a jcw. spend another £1600 and id have a car that looks like a jcw but fully loaded with body kit and calipers. you don't need 6 pot calipers to stop. bar that its about £200 for pads compared to £40 odds for a cooper s. you can't interchange wheels easily with other style with the calipers as they rub. me personally i also like the cooper s kit. aero is nice but in your face. us spec jcw don't come with aero kits as standard. coopers s is understated. vents are also non functional and look a bit pointless. bet though if you put a good driver in a cooper s and a bad driver in a jcw the person in a cooper s would still win in a race even without jcw upgrade.

[Mon the fish]

That's all very well but I have a car with 500 miles on the clock and 5 years warranty and servicing how on earth could I remap and not effect the warranty. Unless dealers do remaps?

What they don't know won't hurt... Get it flashed through the diagnostic port, then re-flash it if it needs to go into the dealers for warranty work on the ECU. I remapped mine before it was a year old. But if your wheels fall off (for example), the dealer can't throw out your warranty claim because you remapped the car - it's an unrelated part.

[ELFMAN]

That's all very well but I have a car with 500 miles on the clock and 5 years warranty and servicing how on earth could I remap and not effect the warranty. Unless dealers do remaps?

I'd leave it as it is Greig, and just enjoy it for now - it's VERY new and quick enough! My Dealer fitted the Milltek Downpipe (they don't usually touch the non-MINI stuff, but I think they had a spare hour or two!), road-tested it and re-set anything that needed doing ECU-wise, so hopefully I won't get my wee 'Emission Light' popping on like the R53 JCW did with the Playmini Manifold (it ran sweet though and emissions checked OK - I eventually stuck my Hendrix badge over the light!). I doubt Dealers would Re-Map a car (as in a 'custom' aftermarket job) unless it's part of the JCW Upgrade, or to remedy a fault. A lot of aftermarket remaps aren't Dealer-detectable, and the good ones should be covered by their own warranty, but you never can tell...... especially if something goes amiss, then it might get complicated as to 'who's to blame'.

By the way, I've seen a rolling road readout on one of the websites for a JCW-Upgraded S which put out 207BHP and 300Nm Torque. Obviously rolling roads vary (this was from 'AMD' down south), but it shows the potential BHP gain. Of course, 'standard' R56 S '175' and JCW power figures quoted by MINI are debatable - I'm certain they're on the low side for 'Insurance Purposes'.

Clubman - if I'm right in thinking (and according to my early R56 JCW Catalogue) the initial JCW Brake 'Upgrade' for the R56 S was just the standard S front Calipers (NOT Brembo) painted red and with a logo, but possibly with different pads? There was actually a wee 'caveat' in the catalogue telling you that the Calipers were standard). The later JCW Brembo 4-Pots are a different matter - and I can vouch that they're very good with lots of feel and great non-fading stopping power.

[GCA3N]

I'd leave it as it is Greig, and just enjoy it for now - it's VERY new and quick enough! My Dealer fitted the Milltek Downpipe (they don't usually touch the non-MINI stuff, but I think they had a spare hour or two!), road-tested it and re-set anything that needed doing ECU-wise, so hopefully I won't get my wee 'Emission Light' popping on like the R53 JCW did with the Playmini Manifold (it ran sweet though and emissions checked OK - I eventually stuck my Hendrix badge over the light!). I doubt Dealers would Re-Map a car (as in a 'custom' aftermarket job) unless it's part of the JCW Upgrade, or to remedy a fault. A lot of aftermarket remaps aren't Dealer-detectable, and the good ones should be covered by their own warranty, but you never can tell...... especially if something goes amiss, then it might get complicated as to 'who's to blame'.

By the way, I've seen a rolling road readout on one of the websites for a JCW-Upgraded S which put out 207BHP and 300Nm Torque. Obviously rolling roads vary (this was from 'AMD' down south), but it shows the potential BHP gain. Of course, 'standard' R56 S '175' and JCW power figures quoted by MINI are debatable - I'm certain they're on the low side for 'Insurance Purposes'.

Clubman - if I'm right in thinking (and according to my early R56 JCW Catalogue) the initial JCW Brake 'Upgrade' for the R56 S was just the standard S front Calipers (NOT Brembo) painted red and with a logo, but possibly with different pads? There was actually a wee 'caveat' in the catalogue telling you that the Calipers were standard). The later JCW Brembo 4-Pots are a different matter - and I can vouch that they're very good with lots of feel and great non-fading stopping power.

Totally agree I feel very happy with the already awesome power and would have little desire to get it higher at the moment for 2 reasons. The first is what we have already discussed, ie warranty etc, the second is, where am I really going to test this extra power. I live on Arran and TBH my cooper S was quick enough.

I think you could be right about the brakes, what I would say is the brembo's on this JCW are as big a difference as the power is from the cooper S. The stopping power is just fantastic and very little if any brake fade even when giving it large so to speak.

[Delboy]

I think you could be right about the brakes, what I would say is the brembo's on this JCW are as big a difference as the power is from the cooper S. The stopping power is just fantastic and very little if any brake fade even when giving it large so to speak.

Better go easy on those brakes Greig if the pads are £200 a set :eek: :thud:.

[GCA3N]

Better go easy on those brakes Greig if the pads are £200 a set :eek: :thud:.

I know I nearly fainted when I read that del.

[ianking]

Mr Clubman. I would disagree about you saying that the brakes are no different. p.s they are 4 pot not 6 pot. I took my standard R56 S round knockhill a couple years ago and gave it some abuse. The brakes really let it down. They were fading away to nothing under the heat and when I pulled back into the pit lane they were pi$$ing blue smoke out everywhere. A couple months back I took my R56 factory JCW to knockhill to give it the same treatment. The brakes were fantastic, no fade, no blue smoke, no squeeling pads and bear in mind I was approaching the corners faster in this car than I was able to do in the S. I really would recommend the brakes if you like to give your car some sport. God just typing this makes me want to go drive the car. Sadly I can't as I'm in Morroco sweating my tits off in this 41 degrees.

[GCA3N]

Mr Clubman. I would disagree about you saying that the brakes are no different. p.s they are 4 pot not 6 pot. I took my standard R56 S round knockhill a couple years ago and gave it some abuse. The brakes really let it down. They were fading away to nothing under the heat and when I pulled back into the pit lane they were pi$$ing blue smoke out everywhere. A couple months back I took my R56 factory JCW to knockhill to give it the same treatment. The brakes were fantastic, no fade, no blue smoke, no squeeling pads and bear in mind I was approaching the corners faster in this car than I was able to do in the S. I really would recommend the brakes if you like to give your car some sport. God just typing this makes me want to go drive the car. Sadly I can't as I'm in Morroco sweating my tits off in this 41 degrees.

:yes nod: I never took my R56 S round knockhill but even on normal roads they were a let down at times. Don't get me wrong they are good brakes and work well driving about like yer dad, and lets be honest most of us don't drive round knockhill every weekend, however in saying that if you want to go out and hit a quiet back road and are quite aggressive on the the brakes they were dissapointing.

As you say Ian the brembo's are in another league. In fact it was one of the first things Del noticed when he drove mine at the weekend, just after going round that tight bend on 2 wheels :Whistle:

[ELFMAN]

I'm in Morroco sweating my tits off in this 41 degrees.

Ian, if that works, I'm going get membership for a Sauna....

BIG UP THE BREMBOS BY THE WAY!

[Delboy]

As you say Ian the brembo's are in another league. In fact it was one of the first things Del noticed when he drove mine at the weekend, just after going round that tight bend on 2 wheels :Whistle:

I'm pretty sure 3 wheels were still touching the road :lol:.

The brakes were excellent though :yes nod: and noticeably better than my Clubby S :moonie:.

[GCA3N]

A good write up on it.
http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/11/12/mf-review-factory-jcw-coupe/

[clubman0_1]

Mr Clubman. I would disagree about you saying that the brakes are no different. p.s they are 4 pot not 6 pot. I took my standard R56 S round knockhill a couple years ago and gave it some abuse. The brakes really let it down. They were fading away to nothing under the heat and when I pulled back into the pit lane they were pi$$ing blue smoke out everywhere. A couple months back I took my R56 factory JCW to knockhill to give it the same treatment. The brakes were fantastic, no fade, no blue smoke, no squeeling pads and bear in mind I was approaching the corners faster in this car than I was able to do in the S. I really would recommend the brakes if you like to give your car some sport. God just typing this makes me want to go drive the car. Sadly I can't as I'm in Morroco sweating my tits off in this 41 degrees.

if your brakes were smokining you were to heavy on them and slow into corners lol

[clubman0_1]

:yes nod: I never took my R56 S round knockhill but even on normal roads they were a let down at times. Don't get me wrong they are good brakes and work well driving about like yer dad, and lets be honest most of us don't drive round knockhill every weekend, however in saying that if you want to go out and hit a quiet back road and are quite aggressive on the the brakes they were dissapointing.

As you say Ian the brembo's are in another league. In fact it was one of the first things Del noticed when he drove mine at the weekend, just after going round that tight bend on 2 wheels :Whistle:

i personaly think its all down to choice and the way you drive. my car has origional pads in it none 12000 miles in it and is on 21 K. pad inicator has been on for months but tons of meat on tem. I do drive it hard but i use engine braking more than pedal. big fan of fast in and faster out of corners :)

[stoney]

if your brakes were smokining you were to heavy on them and slow into corners lol


that was after about 9/10 laps going very hard with standard pads and disks i know cos i was in front of him lol

[GCA3N]

that was after about 9/10 laps going very hard with standard pads and disks i know cos i was in front of him lol

If you were behind him he must have been going like the clappers :laugh::lol: