Flash in phones

[AndyP & Lenore]

Does anyone know why flash isn't supported in some pretty high end smartphones? My iPhone wont run flash, and I read a review of the new Googlephone and it won't have flash either.

It just seems strange, that these phones are pushed on the basis of their internet capabilities, yet they are unable to play the majority of rich content on the web.:confused:

A.

[Gismo]

Annoyed me too cause i couldn't open my web based e-mails :ragin: no idea why not, maybe it's too power hungry???

[zimbo]

Sorry going :off topic: ...but I LOVE your new signature picture Boss, 1st time I spotted it is here right now:clap::Whistle:

[dellie]

I read somewhere it's due to a disagreement between adobe and a few of the phone manufacturers

[The Dogfather]

Adobe will be releasing flash for android in the summer, and iPhone later in the year

[AndyP & Lenore]

Adobe will be releasing flash for android in the summer, and iPhone later in the year

Cool. :thumbs up:

[GAJ]

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for Flash appearing on the iPhone!

Apple, and others, believe that the Flash Framework is not secure and that it creates a backdoor for unauthorised software or scripts to be installed - potentially malicious. It is also remarkably power hungry meaning it soon flattens the batteries on mobile devices, try watching half an hour of Flash content on your laptop and see if it gets any hotter...

[The Dogfather]

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for Flash appearing on the iPhone!


Actually the iphone already has Flash based apps in the Apps store, details here (http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Applications_for_iPhone:Developer_FAQ#Are_there_cu rrently_any_applications_on_the_iTunes_App_Store_c reated_with_Flash.3F)

[Gismo]

Sorry going :off topic: ...but I LOVE your new signature picture Boss, 1st time I spotted it is here right now:clap::Whistle::thumbs up: all the neighbours were looking at me when i was positioning the vehicles, must have thought they had a right eejit moved into the area :lol:

[AndyP & Lenore]

:thumbs up: all the neighbours were looking at me when i was positioning the vehicles, must have thought they had a right eejit moved into the area :lol:

And they'd be right.:Whistle:

A.:D

[The Dogfather]

Staying off topic, I saw a F150 in Newcastle yesterday, it took up two parking bays nearly. It was LPGed so it'd be as cheap to run as yours Alan

[GAJ]

Actually the iphone already has Flash based apps in the Apps store, details here (http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Applications_for_iPhone:Developer_FAQ#Are_there_cu rrently_any_applications_on_the_iTunes_App_Store_c reated_with_Flash.3F)

We are talking about web content utilising Flash. :-)

[The Dogfather]

We are talking about web content utilising Flash. :-)

Are you using the royal 'we' as no one else was being so specific. I mentioned the flash based apps to highlight the fact that apple have allowed flash to be used 'approved' on the iphone.

IMO there's two ways it could go; flash support built into Safari, or a linked app that launches from Safari

As Apple are already allowing people to use flash in apps and there are already beta versions of flash that support H264 and AAC I think there's a pretty high chance that adobe will develop a Safari friendly version of flash. Its the biggest criticism of the iphone so why not work with adobe to address it?

[GAJ]

Are you using the royal 'we' as no one else was being so specific. I mentioned the flash based apps to highlight the fact that apple have allowed flash to be used 'approved' on the iphone.

IMO there's two ways it could go; flash support built into Safari, or a linked app that launches from Safari

As Apple are already allowing people to use flash in apps and there are already beta versions of flash that support H264 and AAC I think there's a pretty high chance that adobe will develop a Safari friendly version of flash. Its the biggest criticism of the iphone so why not work with adobe to address it?

No, the generally accepted meaning of 'we'.

My understanding is that Andy's post was referring to the ability to view web base Flash content. He does say that specifically, and I don't think he has any interest in development. If I'm wrong, I have no doubt he will correct me.

[The Dogfather]

Gaj, my point was that whilst its not available yet the 'ether' is discussing the arrival of flash support on both Android and iphones, which was of interest to Andy.

The fact that there's a beta flash that supports apple centric codecs and the fact that flash based apps exist at all is indication that the 'ether' is likely to be correct, its on its way.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Lads, lads, lads... corners please. :lol:

You're both right. I was meaning flash support while browsing, but Paul's news that flash support within Apps is good news all the same and a step in the right direction.:thumbs up:

Another wee question for anyone... Does Safari on a Mac have flash capabilities?:confused:

A. :D

[The Dogfather]

It does but you get a little pop up picture of Steve Jobs going 'hell no' whilst wagging his finger at you.

[GAJ]

With apologies for returning to this, but I believe that Andy may have had his hopes raised unnecessarily.

Paul is right in that certain Apps have been developed using the latest Flash Framework. What wasn't made clear though, is that the latest Flash development framework offers a tool which 'converts' the Flash content into non-Flash code, which is permitted by Apple. These Apps as they exist on the App Store do not include Flash, per se.

With regard to web content, it's true that Adobe have readied a new version of the Flash Player for the iPhone, and it seems that this may have addressed some of the issues which Apple previously cited as reasons for not adopting previous versions of Flash. However, that doesn't mean that Apple have decided to include it. To the best of my knowledge, Apple still reject Flash and would prefer the whole of the rest of the world to adopt the new HTML5 standards! Why, is anybody's guess!

So to be clear, unless there is a massive u-turn by Apple, I'm afraid that Flash won't be appearing on our iPhones. (or iPads!)

Apple are releasing details of iPhone Software 4.0 later today, although it is likely it will be renamed, now that it is shard by the iPad, but there is no great expectation that Flash will be included.

I'm happy for events to prove me wrong though...

[The Dogfather]

Given the work that Adobe have done to date its highly likely thay could go it alone in delivering a plug in for Safari. They don't actually need Apple's permission to do this.

[GAJ]

Sorry Paul, but they do.

How do you think this mythical plugin would be installed in the iPhone?

That's the problem, unless you Jailbreak the phone, it's completely locked down and everything needs Apple's consent.

[The Dogfather]

Sorry, 'plugin' was the wrong term I meant an external app that is launched from Safari.

However this CNET article indicates collaboration between Adobe and Apple, so maybe there will be a special iphone version developed.

[Mon the fish]

That's the problem, unless you Jailbreak the phone, it's completely locked down and everything needs Apple's consent.

And jailbreaking is the best thing I've ever done. If you've got 3.1.3, it's too late for you to be saved!

[GAJ]

I believe 3.1.3 has been cracked too! :-)

[The Dogfather]

Any news on the V4 software?


edit - found some, multitasking yes, flash and java no.

[GAJ]

Engadget has a review up now.

[The Dogfather]

The multitasking is a boost

[GAJ]

The most relevant thing for this thread is pasted below. Like I said, don't hold your breath for Flash -

Apple has updated its iPhone Developer Program License Agreement in the iPhone 4.0 SDK to specifically prohibit the development of apps using "an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool," which would include Adobe's Flash, Sun's Java, or Microsoft's Silverlight/Mono.

Apple has always prohibited the use of outside frameworks, runtimes or plugins in iPhone apps, a measure that has prevented Adobe or others from delivering an app with the ability to run content such as Flash or Java or Silverlight.

This restriction prompted Adobe to attempt to salvage its developers' existing Flash content by adding a feature to the upcoming Creative Suite 5 that would allow the Flash Professional application to export existing Flash content into a native iPhone application package that could be legitimately sold in the iTunes App Store because it was no longer Flash, and therefore no longer needed any sort of external runtime to play.

However, in iPhone 4, a clause in the developer license that until now only prohibited the use of private APIs (that is, development features that Apple has not completed, documented, and disclosed as being available for public use) has now been expanded to include prohibitions on developing iPhone apps in other languages or in other development environments that are then translated or cross-compiled into native iPhone apps. The clause, section 3.3.3, now reads:

"Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited)."

This measure means Flash Professionals won't be able to develop content using Flash's ActiveScript and then port this code to iPhone. It also means that developers won't be able to directly port code written in Microsoft's C# language to its .NET framework into a translated iPhone app.

The prohibition may also be a roadblock for Appcelerator and its Titanium SDK or the similar PhoneGap, both of which are designed to build native mobile apps using web technologies such as HTML and JavaScript. The clause specifically limits JavaScript for use in web apps, and does not allow it to link against the native Cocoa Touch APIs.

The news should come as a crushing blow to Adobe, which has been working furiously to develop its Flash to iPhone cross compiler as the key new feature for Flash Professional in CS5. It also erases Adobe's strategy to push mobile and web development toward Flash while still leveraging compatibility with the iPhone OS.

By insisting that all iPhone apps begin as native development using its own Xcode tools, Apple can prevent third party middleware platforms from muscling into the market it created. This will effectively reserve the value and sales volumes of the App Store to benefit Apple's own development tools, ensuring that all the apps sold in the App Store are being built using the company's own naive tools and not just cross-compiled from another source.

Apple's move apparently comes in a defense strike against Flash app shovelware, which threatens to water down the original content in the App Store with lots of existing, poor quality Flash games originally designed for the web or other mobile platforms and rebaked to work on the iPhone.

The new rule also rubs out any hope for Java or Silverlight/Mono as a common denominator for building mobile apps, preventing developers from coding apps using Java or C#/.NET and then just cross-compiling them into iPhone apps using a "translation or compatibility layer."

[AndyP & Lenore]

The most relevant thing for this thread is pasted below. Like I said, don't hold your breath for Flash -

Apple has updated its iPhone Developer Program License Agreement in the iPhone 4.0 SDK to specifically prohibit the development of apps...........

............The new rule also rubs out any hope for Java or Silverlight/Mono as a common denominator for building mobile apps, preventing developers from coding apps using Java or C#/.NET and then just cross-compiling them into iPhone apps using a "translation or compatibility layer."

In other words.... "it's oor baw, and we'll state who we want to play with":frown:

A.

[GAJ]

In other words.... "it's oor baw, and we'll state who we want to play with":frown:

A.

Yip! Apple (read Mr. Jobs) have always liked to be in control but things have gone to another level with the iPhone platform.

[The Dogfather]

I read that and I'm so disappointed, I better not comment anymore.

[Mon the fish]

So there's nothing in the new OS that I haven't got in my jailbroken phone?

[GAJ]

The iPone OS Flash dilemma, may soon be resolved if this story from MacUser has any legs -"
Websites may soon be able to show their Flash videos on the iPad using new software that automatically re-wraps movies in an iPhone OS-friendly format.
US firm RipCode says that its TransAct Transcoder V6 can convert Flash files or live video streams without any impact on the end user and without any additional software on the iPad.
All the re-encoding is done on the fly on the web server, automatically detecting content request from an Apple device and converting the content to either an MP4 Progressive Download or MPEG-TS Adaptive Progressive Download.
“The ‘Flash on iPad’ dilemma is really just the latest in a long line of speed bumps on the road towards ‘any-content, any-time, any-place, any-device’ that we all desire,” says Brendon Mills, chief executive of RipCode. “Fortunately, our technology removes this barrier in a way that is attractive to content hosters, a key device manufacturer, a key video player provider, and the end user alike.”

On a related note - new iPhone rumoured to be announced in June, same as previous years. Looks like the rumours about being called iPhone HD are correct, and that it will use the new A4 processor - so it should be a lot quicker than current models. Google has more details!