Magrahi

[AndyP & Lenore]

Looks like common sense, decency and compassion for the families of the deceased has not prevailed and this mass murderer will be released.

It's not often I feel so strongly about something but I can honestly say I'm ashamed to be a Scot because of what the Scottish Government have done.:frown::blush:

A.

[Stewart]

The government were only half the story, Its the families in the UK including Dr Jim Swire who lost his daughter that have been campaigning hard for his release. Scotslaw can be funny at times.

[GCA3N]

Funny, nothing funny about this:ragin:, how can a man who took the lives of so many people be released on grounds of compassion:eek:. Nothing surprises me anymore with this world, this man should rot in jail and should'nt even be allowed a funeral:frown:. I aggree with you andy this is an embarrasment to this country if we allow him to go free. Where will it end......:sad:

[Gismo]

If the guy is guilty then let him rot i say, but, the Swire family firmly believe that Magrahi was not involved and have campaigned as hard to get him released as they initially fought to get him jailed.

And i'm sure the "funny" reference was not intended to be in the jovial manner

[Scottie]

How free will he actually be!!!


was he actually guilty? do you think he was?

I don't think it is black and white as all that. I can't recall reading anything that made me think for 100% certain that the guy was guilty.

[Scottie]

insert wiki
The initial investigation into the crash site by Dumfries and Galloway police involved military and civilian helicopter surveys, satellite imaging, and a fingertip search of the area by police and soldiers. More than 10,000 pieces of debris were retrieved, tagged and entered into a computer tracking system. The perpetrators had initially intended the plane to crash into the sea, destroying any traceable evidence, but the late departure time of the aircraft meant that its explosion over land left a veritable trail of evidence.[25]
The fuselage of the aircraft was reconstructed by air accident investigators, revealing a 20-inch (510 mm) hole consistent with an explosion in the forward cargo hold. Examination of the baggage containers revealed that the container nearest the hole had blackening, pitting, and severe damage indicating a "high-energy event" had taken place inside it. A series of test explosions was carried out to confirm the precise location and quantity of explosive used.
Fragments of a Samsonite suitcase believed to have contained the bomb were recovered, together with parts and pieces of circuit board identified as part of a Toshiba Bombeat radio cassette player, similar to that used to conceal a Semtex bomb seized by West German police from the Palestinian militant group Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command two months earlier. Items of baby clothing, which were subsequently proven to have been made in Malta, were also thought to have come from the same suitcase.
The clothes were traced to a Maltese merchant, Tony Gauci, who became a key prosecution witness, testifying that he sold the clothes to a man of Libyan appearance, whom he later identified as Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi. However, an official report providing information not available during the original trial stated that Gauci had seen a picture of al-Megrahi in a magazine which connected al-Megrahi to the bombing, a fact which could have distorted his judgment.[26]
A circuit board fragment, allegedly found embedded in a piece of charred material, was identified as part of an electronic timer similar to that found on a Libyan intelligence agent who had been arrested 10 months previously, carrying materials for a Semtex bomb. The timer allegedly was traced through its Swiss manufacturer, Mebo, to the Libyan military, and Mebo employee Ulrich Lumpert identified the fragment at al-Megrahi's trial. Mebo's owner, Edwin Bollier, later revealed that in 1991 he had declined an offer from the FBI of $4 million to testify that the timer fragment was part of a Mebo MST-13 timer supplied to Libya. On 18 July 2007, Ulrich Lumpert admitted he had lied at the trial.[27] In a sworn affidavit before a Zurich notary, Lumpert stated that he had stolen a prototype MST-13 timer PC-board from Mebo and gave it without permission on 22 June 1989, to "an official person investigating the Lockerbie case".[28] Dr Hans Köchler, UN observer at the Lockerbie trial, who was sent a copy of Lumpert's affidavit, said: "The Scottish authorities are now obliged to investigate this situation. Not only has Mr Lumpert admitted to stealing a sample of the timer, but to the fact he gave it to an official and then lied in court".
In a documentary entitled "Lockerbie revisited" aired on April 27, 2009, the film's director and narrator, Gideon Levy interviewed officials involved with the case. Former FBI laboratory scientist Fred Whitehurst described the FBI laboratory itself as a "crime scene", where an unqualified colleague Thomas Thurman would routinely alter his scientific reports. The interviews also revealed that the timer fragment had never been tested for explosives residue due to "budgetary reasons". Thurman, who led the forensic investigation and identified the fragments Libyan connection, confirmed that it was the "only real piece of evidence against Libya" and when asked of the importance of the timer in the conviction of al-Megrahi, FBI Task Force Chief Richard Marquise stated, "It would be a very difficult case to prove ... I don't think we would ever (have) had an indictment".[29]
Investigators also discovered that an unaccompanied bag had been routed onto PA 103, via the interline baggage system, from Luqa airport on Air Malta flight KM180 to Frankfurt, and then by feeder flight PA 103A to Heathrow. This unaccompanied bag was shown at the trial to have been the suitcase that contained the bomb. In 2009 it was revealed that security guard Ray Manley had reported that Heathrow's Pan Am baggage area had been broken into 17 hours before flight 103 took off. Police lost the report and it was never investigated or brought up at trial. [30]

[Stewart]

Sorry poor choice of words:blush:, but Scotslaw is what he’s imprisoned under and its usually better with fewer loopholes than our uk counterpart. I’m sure he insisted he was put on trial here for a reason and that was to get as fair a trial as possible.


I’m with everyone else if guilty I’d lock him in a room with the relatives and loved ones of the people lost, giving them base ball bats……….and left to rot………

[The Dogfather]

Lets get this into perspective, he only has months to live, he's being released to die with his family. To me this shows compassion and demonstrates that we are better than the terrorists.

Hopefully his last few months with his family will make him realise what he's lost by committing this crime.

Some of the comments in this thread sound like the chants of a blood thirsty mob.

[euan]

I think there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Now, before I say this - if he is guilty he shouldn't be released.

There has always been question marks over his guilt and if he was just made to be the fall guy in all this. Perhaps as part of his appeal something had come up that proved he wasn't involved? Would it not then be better for all concerned to allow him to be released on compassionate grounds, he can die with his family in his homeland, and then let the matter lie, as there would no doubt then be a massive public outroar (rightly) to get the people who did actually do it behind bars.

[koolsville]

IMHO, I think he should die in jail. Unless he can prove his innocence - his sentence stands in my opinion.

I can now see other murderer's lawyers using this case to get them out early.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Perhaps it's a bit naive of me, but I tend to trust in Scots law, and if he's been found guilty by a jury of his peers, then had an appeal against that conviction overturned by a panel of law lords, he's guilty. Period.

I accept he only has a few months to live, but when you carry out an act of mass murder, you must accept that any compassion - whatever the circumstances - will no longer be afforded you.

A.

[Just Jade]

He's been found guilty of a crime (rightly or wrongly) and given a life sentence. Because that decision was made I think he should serve his sentence regardless of his illness unless he can prove his innocence.

[Stewart]

Article in the herald today points out that there seems little doubt he was involved by the overwhelming evidence given during the trial. I know some us sound a bit blood thirsty which we all know is wrong but I think us Scots felt it was an attack on our own soil way back and the feelings are still there.

[GCA3N]

Lets get this into perspective, he only has months to live, he's being released to die with his family. To me this shows compassion and demonstrates that we are better than the terrorists.

Hopefully his last few months with his family will make him realise what he's lost by committing this crime.

Some of the comments in this thread sound like the chants of a blood thirsty mob.


I guess your opinion would differ if you had a friend or relative that had been murdered that day. If you murder someone you go to jail for life. Life should be life. The problem is in today's society we are far to Lenient on criminals. If the threat of death or proper life in prison for murder then cases would drop. If for instance the penalty for speeding was a ban from driving for life i wonder how many of us would take the chance. That's the big problem nowadays. In my Ex-copper days I was sick and tired of going to court time and time again watching know criminals get sentences that are a joke.
I could give you many examples, but here is a classic.

Guy gets done for possessing a knife and stabbing someone, then resisting arrest, driving whilst disqualified (because he stole a car to get away) oh yes theft of a motor vehicle, no insurance etc.Went to court and the defence lawyer (paid for by the tax payer) plea bargains with the fiscal and, wait for it, he gets convicted of serious assault and driving whilst disqualified, the rest got dropped:eek:.

it gets better, his lawyer then stands up and states his client is very sorry and won't do it again (or words to that effect) he got a 1 year suspended sentence (ie do nothing wrong in 12 months and you won't go to jail) and banned from driving (Again) for a further 12 months. Tell me where the justice is in that. This goes on everyday in every court accross the land many many times. The system is shocking and this is just one more example of why. Bring back hanging for these people, atleast that way we won't have to pay for them. IMHO off course. Rant over

[C.Noble]

It's not often I feel so strongly about something but I can honestly say I'm ashamed to be a Scot because of what the Scottish Government have done.:frown::blush:

A.

Two ways of looking at that, IF he is guilty, I agree with the majority, he deserves no more "compassion" than the amount he displayed for the victims... he is scum and it would be natural justice to never taste freedom again, and be kept from his family as he did to other families... let him rot!

BUT...

How would we all feel as Scots if it turns out we let an innocent man die in jail seperated from his family... while the real bomber (IF it is not Magrahi) goes free???

If in the future this does all turn out to be a cover up, with Magrahi as the fall guy, then we are as bad as the terrorists.

Unfortunately, as we live in a rather cynical world, we will probably never find out the REAL truth.

[The Dogfather]

I don't disagree that life should mean life and I agree with you we should be harder on criminals as a deterrent. But, this isn't about going soft of criminals this is about a terminally ill prisoner.

IMO, his life has been taken away at least the part that matters, so he has served his life sentence. All he has left is a couple of months, which will be probably spent in agony.

If he's guilty, then he might just learn that the people he killed are decent compassionate people and actually feel remorse for his actions.

[The Dogfather]

As for the death penalty, even if we do have the moral right to take someone's life away....

Can you guarantee that there will never be an innocent person executed, ever?

[Big Gordy]

Well....that's it then:sad:
There letting him home to die:frown:

[euan]

Here's hoping he doesn't get some kind of hero's welcome when he gets there.

[AndyP & Lenore]

What's with all this IF he's guilty rubbish? He was convicted in a court of law with substantial evidence pointing to his guilt. He failed in his attempt to overturn that conviction for the same reason.:sad:

Next you'll be saying Princess Di was murdered by MI5.:frown::laugh:

A.

[GCA3N]

:eek:


Next you'll be saying Princess Di was murdered by MI5.:frown::laugh:

A.


You mean she was'nt:eek:

[C.Noble]

What's with all this IF he's guilty rubbish? He was convicted in a court of law with substantial evidence pointing to his guilt. He failed in his attempt to overturn that conviction for the same reason.:sad:

Next you'll be saying Princess Di was murdered by MI5.:frown::laugh:

A.

Sorry, I forgot that all court proceedings are as squeeky clean, unbiased and honest as the lawyers who work in them and the agents behind all the investigative work...:frown:!

Like I said, if he is guilty, and I think he probably had something to do with it in some capacity, if not the actual bomber himself, either way, he deserves to rot in jail, bollocks to any "compassion" for him.

But I am afraid I dont trust the American government much when it comes to investigating terrorism... they had alot to do with the investigation and these rumours of bribing witnesses stinks... as usual there is probably a whole lot more to it than will ever be known publicly, and I suspect there are more than just Magrahi involved.

If some relatives of the victims are campaigning for his release, it would appear things are not as clear cut as the courts would have us believe!

As for Princess Di... I am pretty sure that was just an unlucky case of "being hit in the face at 100mph by a piece of France", but look at the amount of newspapers the MI5 thing sold!

[doogz__]

Scottish Courts have enough of a problem putting away people caught on CCTV nicking TV's and the like, and you all believe that they managed to trace this guy through various hostile government agencies, and bring him over here to be tried.

He's the fall guy. And even if he was involved, even a major player, he didn't coordinate an attack like this by himself, yet i don't hear anyone complaining about the rest of them that got off scot free.

I don't necessarily agree that he should be let out, but i really don't see why it's such a bit deal, since he'll be clocking out shortly anyway

[Delboy]

I don't necessarily agree that he should be let out, but i really don't see why it's such a bit deal, since he'll be clocking out shortly anyway

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't feel this way if you had lost someone that was on the plane. :frown:
I personally think it is a big deal and that he should not have been freed.

[doogz__]

Yeah, well that only actually applies if you believe he was guilty. And i'm not convinced.

Besides, the guy's about to snuff it, and keeping him in jail isn't going to bring anyone back, all it's going to do is cost the British taxpayer money.

[Scottie]

Can I ask why is ok to let members of the IRA walk free and not ok this man to do so.

How come members of the IRA now help run Ireland.

Last time I looked none of the IRA had terminal cancer.

Why is it OK for the Americans to "accidently" shoot down the Iran flight several months earlier.

We are all being nieve if we think this was only ever about a man deciding to bomb and bring down a plane there was a lot of things going on that we will never know.

Lets not forgets folks Cancer is not a nice death in fact it's a bloody awful death.

I like the fact that we have been able to show him compassion

I don't like the fact it will be conceived as a sign of weakness to some of the muslim community. They will now look on us as a weak country.

[AndyP & Lenore]

All good points Fi, and I fully accept he was not alone in his actions.

I still don't agree with showing him ANY compassion whatsoever though.

A.

[GCA3N]

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't feel this way if you had lost someone that was on the plane. :frown:
I personally think it is a big deal and that he should not have been freed.


Yes, some sence at last, we are a laughing stock, it is disgraceful. We are not releasing him because he may or may not be guilty, it is because he has cancer and it is really sad and he needs to be let out because he is about to die, Good I hope it is a long protracted and painful one.

[Livi]

i think we all have different opinions on this and there will never be a 'everyones happy' decision

MY opinion is, that what about all the people who never got to say goodbye to there families?

yet IF he did do this hideous crime, why should he be allowed be free only because he is not well.

i hope he rots! atleast we should stick to the punishment he was given


also who was the great train robber? he surely done many years of his time but because he is dying, everyone complained because he was let loose - hes a fragile old man, who i wont think would do a crime as he wont be able to run far on his walking stick!! :rolleyes:

[baptie]

no matter how you paint it, personally I think its total crap that he has been released.
The only guy they had for the atrocity and they let him go.

He gets off the plane to a heros welcome, should have tied a bungee to his ass and yanked him back in the plane!

bloody disgrace, makes our judicial system look like a joke

[zimbo]

no matter how you paint it, personally I think its total crap that he has been released.
The only guy they had for the atrocity and they let him go.


bloody disgrace, makes our judicial system look like a joke

:thumbs up: I agree with everything just said here ^^^

It is a TOTAL and utter disgrace that this has happened, the worst case of blatent murder ever in this country and they let the b***ard go just coz he is dying (of an illness that is probably god given as payback for his crime) and so he can die in his own country with his family by his side!! and will probably become a martyr as well.

All the victims on that plane didnt get a chance to say goodbye to their loved ones... did they :ragin:

Sorry but I think this country is turning into a big joke!! It is getting worse and worse to live here in my honest opinion.

Alan I think you have the right idea about getting out of this place, I think I may join you when I can sort myself out to do so.

So whats going to stop other people who may also be dying from trying to knock someone off and then turn around and say "Oh I'm dying and dont have long to live please let me go so I can die at home with my family around me..."

We are probably going to be the Laughing stock of the whole world right now.

DAMN DISGRACE!!! :ragin:

[baptie]

Just been watching sky news - 'The scottish goverment released him' & 'Gordon Brown'

As usual we look like a bunch of w****rs

Sometimes I really hate being scottish......just sometimes

[Craig]

I've been away for a couple of days and only had access via my phone, so not had a chance to update this.

What I will say is as others have said, according to Scottish Law and the trial he had etc, he is guilty. Whether Libya were complicit in the atrocity as well is up for debate. :rolleyes:

What I will say is if a foreign national had broken into my house and murdered Jude, I would be wanting him to serve life for murder, however this guy decided to plant a bomb in a radio, put in in a suitcase and have it blow up over the ocean so that there would be very little evidence to discover how it happened and who did it (the were most probably hoping for it to be put down as mechanical failure) :rolleyes: As the flight was delayed, this didn't happen which is why Lockerbie had to endure this sick persons actions. I know a few people that had to be there and also had to be involved in the trial and it has changed their lives and not for the better.... As others have said, this amounts to mass murder. He has only served 8 years of a life sentence FFS. :thud::argh:

I had to sit and watch the news last night as the pictures of that murderer getting off the plane to a hero's welcome in Libya. :ragin: That just makes it worse. He doesn't deserve to die with dignity with his family in his home town. He didn't afford that luxury to the 270 people he murdered and their families. I am not being blood thirsty here, just think that we have been the soft touch as usual. :frown:

And before anyone says "but the conviction was wrong", are we then saying that every other conviction by the Scottish Justice system is wrong? I don't think so. :rolleyes:

:knife:

[GCA3N]

I did not know this but I believe Tony Blair signed an agreement a while back that involved a prisoner exchange system. It was tied in with the UK and certain Buisness deals that we got from it. It would appear that the Scottish goverment had little choice but to do what they were told.

[Craig]

I did not know this but I believe Tony Blair signed an agreement a while back that involved a prisoner exchange system. It was tied in with the UK and certain Buisness deals that we got from it. It would appear that the Scottish goverment had little choice but to do what they were told.

yeah it was something to do with an oil deal with lybian oil fields and UK businesses that were due to be awarded contracts.

Lifes sold for money... :frown: what next... :rolleyes:

[GCA3N]

yeah it was something to do with an oil deal with lybian oil fields and UK businesses that were due to be awarded contracts.

Lifes sold for money... :frown: what next... :rolleyes:


Money rules the world, sad:sad: