Speeds on Runs - Food for thought......

[ELFMAN]

I was going to start a thread on this, and having read about Tahra's unfortunate ticket, it's maybe a good time to raise the point.

We all had a fantastic time on yesterday's run, and obviously all the cars are running well, judging by the rate we were going at times. Now I'm as guilty as the next person, and at my age I should know better:I, so no pointy fingers from me on this one. There were a couple of times (Glencoe/Rannoch Moor and on the way home just before I turned off for Moffat) when some seriously licence-busting speeds were seen by groups of MINIS. Now we all know it's great fun at the time, but thinking about it later on, your licence is the least you could lose. The thought of one of our happy band, or anyone (who doesn't look in their mirrors before pulling out in front of us doing 50MPH less) for that matter, getting peeled off the road isn't a nice one :dead:.



Also, blitzing other road users at high speeds in packs might just piss off:mad: somebody enough to mess up future trips if the Law starts to take an interest. I'm not advocating we all start driving like Detuned Milk Floats, and most of the time we can go quickly and still be pretty well behaved. It's just that when we're in a group enjoying the road in these great cars, it's all too easy to get caught up and carried away. Especially in a Panda car, or worse still, a meat wagon:disapprove:.

As I said, I'm as guilty as the next person, but on reflection, there's fast enough to be fun and there's TOO FAST. We all know what these cars are capable of, just don't push the envelope too far. Think how bad we'd feel if something did happen.........:blackeye::sleepy:. Let's not give the “Speed Kills” lobby any more ammo.

Any constructive comments? Remember, “Shut up up, you old fart” and suchlike isn't constructive.;)

[Burple]

Yup... you're quite right there.
doing this while the roads are totally empty (are the ever really?) is one thing, and I like a good blast as much as anyone, but like the big man says, it's all too easy to get carried away! :I
If we're going quickly, we need to be sensible and aware... and obviously not TOO quickly!! Especially when passing other road users. I think we need to remember that not everyone has a car that drives and handles like our own, and to be perfectly blunt, there are a lot of people out there on the roads who have difficulty in dealing with simple things like being aware of the size of their own car (Points finger at numpty in Fiesta yeserday who nearly caused us all grief!). back to the old adage I think that we need to drive like everyone else on the road *IS* a total idiot...
After all we want to have fun in them thar hills for years to come and (as we know) it would be a tragedy for grief to befall someone's pride and joy (or far worse!)

[3GGG]

Thanks for the courage to mention this Elfman. I agree that there can be times when the group gets carried away and it is important to remember the safety of all road users and also not get the group a bad reputation for reckless driving. All good points that you made. We drive Minis but we are not immortal, it is important to remember.
We had an accident on one of the Scottish runs last year which could so nearly have had tragic consequences. There has been discussion about the 'rules' for runs before, while not wishing to be a spoil sport - the organisers have to set some kind of guidelines before the run starts, and due credit to most, they have. Sensible things like no blasting past others, keeping a safe distance, nobody overtaking the lead car etc.

[Heather]

totally agree. Speed limits are there for a reason I know its easy to get carried away but accidents do and will happen. (sensible ex a&e nurse hat taken off:D)

[ny152]

Credit to Elfman for bringing up what could be a sticky point.

On yesterdays run I reckon we were pretty well behaved.
Yes, at times the speed limit was passed, but everybody kept their distance pretty well and didn't blast up the car behind.

I know its a cliche, but its not speed in itself, but innapropriate use of speed that causes the most danger (witness Mondeo man at Glencoe).

Hopefully we are all grown up enough that if someone started to act wreckless while on a run they would be told in no uncertain terms to "pack it in or go home alone". I certainly wouldn't want to cause any damage to either myself, my car, or anyone else on a run. And whats the point in having a MINI if a ban stops you driving it?

There was one point last night while travelling from Stirling to the next stop that I did get a buzz from pushing the car faster than I should have on a public road. But the thought of losing my license for a quick fix doesn't bear thinking about so its not something I intend to repeat.

On the other hand, I thought one of the best bits of yesterdays route was the crawl into Callendar and then leaving the car park and going at well under the limit out of town again. Hey, we all drive MINI's and there is no feeling better to me than other people getting pleasure by seeing us do a convoy with horns tooting and folks waving back :cool:.

[Willie M]

I'm pretty much with you all on this one and credit to Elfman for bringing this issue to the fore again. Both Linda and I have pretty strong feelings about speed issues and safety on MINI runs. We're by no means angels (well I am ;)) and we've both had our little moments of over exuberance on some past runs of which we are less than proud :blackeye::(

Whilst I wasn't party to what happened after Stirling Services on Monday I have to say, in all honesty, that I thought this run was one of the best behaved I have ever attended (and I've been on a good few now both North & South of the border). I thought the conduct on the road was, for the most part, exemplarory. The group was well led by the various drivers who took a turn to do so. I certainly did notice one or two other 'nutters' on the road (numpty Fiesta and grey Mondea man who could only have missed Duncan by the thickness of a coat of paint :mad:)

Like 3GGG, I think what happened on one of the Scottish Runs last year sent a very sharp reminder to us all. But for a little bit of luck that situation could have been so much worse. There were also a few nasty incidents on some of the MINI2 runs down South last year and this topic was heavily discussed on their forums too.

We have a fantastic little community here on NMS, a wonderful group of people with a genuine love for their cars who have shared a lot of memorable and fun days out. I for one would be very sad indeed if we were ever to lose that. We ceratinly don't want to take the fun out of Mini runs but we equally have a duty to drive with consideration for ourselves, our passengers, our fellow Mini owners and above all, other road users.

On a side note. I saw a very nasty accident on my way home from work last night. Really brings it all home and makes you think twice.

[ELFMAN]

I agree, Willie, 95% of the time everything was spot on, with excellent driving and road manners from all NMS members and certainly gave me no cause for concern on what was a fantastic day for a great cause. I reckon we put more thought into what we're doing than most road users..

This is just a wee reminder to folks (myself included!) that when those 5% horns pop out of the forehead, it's time to think of the possible consequences. Also as the better weather comes in, roads get busier and lots of folks who don't usually go further than the local shop decide to venture further afield. So you get lots of fairly inexperienced and unsure drivers dottering and weaving around Scotland in search of Woolen Mills and Cream Teas........

I'd still trust a fellow NMS driver over other road users any time.

[Duncan Stewart]

Don't mention b****dy fiestas! :blackeye::eek: after what that nutter did to Davidson on Monday my horns certainly grew and I was thinking "let me at him, I'll force him over to let us overtake!" :evil:
Seriously though, I am not aware of main groups on the runs I have been on driving at dangerous speeds however often on runs the lead group overtakes someone doing 50 - 55mph and those left behind can often end up doing silly speeds to catch up. I think the run does need to overtake very slow traffic but would it be more fun to all drive together at 50mph or in lots of little groups at 60mph? 8)
I know how temping it is to overtake slower traffic and it's much more fun at higher speeds. Also we don't want people getting frustrated because they think our run is holding them up by only doing 50mph. Difficult one - what do others think (and I know what I did in Skye before anyone reminds me :I :clown:)

[Willie M]

quote:Originally posted by ELFMAN

So you get lots of fairly inexperienced and unsure drivers dottering and weaving around Scotland in search of Woolen Mills and Cream Teas........
LOL :D:D Classic!
DS has a point too. It's important that the lead cars on a run remember that they've still got a group of potentially 10+ Minis behind them. Remember that even though it may be okay for one or two of you to squeeze past a car doing say 50mph, it can take a little while before the other cars have the same opportunity.

I do agree that it's better to try and keep the convoy together as much as you possibly can. For me, one of the most important rules of a run is to always keep an eye on the Mini behind you. If they are dropping behind or get left at a junction, slow down a bit until you have them in your sights again. If everyone follows this simple wee rule it usually ensures that the pack remains intact (unless of course Duncan (Satelite) is in there somewhere. ;)

Edit: Forgot to mention that this worked like a treat on Seany & Una's St. Andrews Run earlier in the year. Thought S & U did an excellent job of shepherding the pack around Fife that day. Both kept an eye on what was going on behind them and slowed up a bit when the pack got split.

[Scottie]

well I have never been on any of your runs yet!! but you all sound like a sensible lot.

Have you ever thought about doing a defensive driving course which takes about a day.

Or go on and do a advance driving course.

Thats what I done and it made me think of how I drove before.

[Duncan Stewart]

I have to echo Willie's comments about Seany & Una's run earlier this year. Superb work keeping a very large pack together but still able to have some fast blasts around the twisty bits (under the speed limit of course) before slowing to ensure pack stuck together. :D

[john]

OK so I will pull off a couple of plug leads before the Cullen run to allow the works 's's to keep up with the flow:)


Everyone knows the score and we are all adults so do we really have to harp on about this?

There is few people on the road that have never been over the speed limit.

I dont condone speeding but I am not going to lecture anyone on driving,so roll on the next run and lets enjoy it!

[Linda M]

Oh goody, my favourite subject about MINI runs but I won't ramble on because we've had these threads in the past and they tend to get forgotten when the adrenalin of a run starts!

Organisers 'have' to set rules (like it or not) and more importantly have to stick to them themselves! As I've said SO many times before the thrill of a MINI run is a nice twisty interesting route, the convoy and the folk.

Even the incident with Kirsty on the festive run had nothing to do with speed and was very unfortunate but it still left Willie and I feeling terrible.

One thing I will never forget is last years accident, I sat with Shaz and his wee brother while they recovered from shock, it was very harrowing and not something I want to do again.

I also feel very strongly about limiting the number of cars on runs, you have to be able to keep an eye on everyone.

There's nothing better than a well organised MINI run, as everyone knows it takes Willie and I 'months' to plan a run and I think this shows by all the nice comments we've had about our runs. This also showed on S&U St Andrews run which was also well organised.

I know it's easy to say that it's up to everyone to act and behave properly but in my opinion and past experience it's down to organisers. You need to have a good route and directions, plenty of re-group stops, a lead car and a back car, limit cars and if anyone is acting stupid on a run they need pulled up and given options.

[Big Col]

<hangs head at Linda's post> Sorry mum. :clown:

[Duncan Stewart]

I've been on (or heard about) alot of Mini runs and without a doubt the NMS runs are the best organised :approve: so we must have the safest runs :D A huge thanks must go to everyone who has or is organising a run - it is a lot work and responsibility.
Numbers is an interesting issue - the Thistle run is the best organised I've been on outside a NMS run but it needs to be with 130 + cars! I've hear some English runs are hundreds of cars.
I like the smaller numbers on the NMS runs as you get a chance to get to know most folk.

[ELFMAN]

Just to answer John's point - nobody's “Harping” or indeed “Lecturing” anybody else. The “Speeding” bit isn't that simple either - I'm not talking about hitting 80 or so - that's 'shooty in' on those roads in a MINI and perfectly safe in the right conditions.

The point I'm making is when we had 4 MINIS in a row at *10MPH in Glencoe after getting stuck behind slower non-NMS cars. This shows how easy it is to get caught up in the excitement and before you know it, somebody's caught a bad bump or camber and they're off. At those speeds you've no chance. I grew up doing monumentally stupid things in old Minis, but the roads were quieter, the law didn't hate motorists and I thought I'd live forever......

So, no lectures, I love to wind up the S (I didn't but it to trundle around slowly), but I'm not trying to wind anyone else up! If thinking about it makes somebody (including me) back off 20MPH, then that's cool.

[Julz]

My main issue is not necessarily with speed, as many of us have had some smaller adventures (like to Aberdeen last Autumn) where the speeds have been 'moderate' and the driving fun, there were some members on this run who were not too keen on the style and carried on at their own pace and all were happy. My main gripe is with silly moves, overtaking for the sake of it in silly places and especailly sitting too close to the car infront. If you do not give a sensible stopping distance and the car infront has to break, you've had it, I know from experience with Herbie, and also a recent run down the motorway to a meeting point where the mini behind was very close while doing 3 figure speeds in the pishing rain, quite brainless and unnecessary!!:mad: Moan over:disapprove:

[DNV122]

Everyone is out to enjoy driving, so don't f*ck-up anyone else's day by running them off the road.

I was relatively fortunate last year on the Cullen Run, as were 3GGG, Zoooooom, MiniMartyn and Sh@z, but my neck and back are still troublesome. I have an appointment tomorrow at a back specialist.

Enjoy your car, drive in control and try and avoid the red-mist. Speed is a drug which is only cured by going faster..... Break the mold and enjoy the scenery.

Bagsy the back on the Cullen Run this year.

[KenL]

*10mph on a run :eek:

That's ridiculous :disapprove:

This type of driving will put a lot of people off going on runs and the fun will be gone. No-one wants to head out for a day to enjoy the scenery and the company of like-minded people only to be put at risk by others.

The last thing anyone wants is MINIs to be associated with boy racers :mad:

[redpoint rallying]

If you want to get something out your system try road rallying or navigation rallies as they are now called. It would be great to see a stack of MINIs out doing rallys and you dont need to do much to the car if anything.

See the following RAC Motorsports Association affilliated car clubs for more info......

www.admc.freeserve.co.uk
www.sdmc.org.uk/
www.highlandcarclub.co.uk/
www.63carclub.info/
www.55cc.org.uk/

[weefossy]

a lot of sense being aired by everyone. Speed doesn't cause crashes....it's running out of space that causes the damage. Despite the urge I definately held back on the M74 after Abington,(Round Britain) because my licience is my livelihood. It is the individuals' choice, as long as it doesn't endanger others. Like Julz, Sioban hates anybody getting too close to her rear end!!...and for once I agree.