Israel, Gaza & the troubles

[AndyP & Lenore]

Well, we've all stayed clear of discussing this so far, surprising considering how important it could all end up being. However, now the tanks are rolling in this doesn't look to be a simple short term reaction by Israel. So for those who wish, here's a thread for discussions regarding the ongoing crisis/conflict/war.

A wee word of warning though.... I'm sure we all have strong opinions on this subject, and you're perfectly entitled to vent/state your opinion here. Just be pre-warned, others will disagree, and will have their own opinion, just as is their own right also. So any flaming or fall outs will be deleted without warning.
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So, for my own 2p worth. Regardless of the reasons behind Israel's attack on Hamas, the biggest crime here is the loss of innocent life.:sad:

I just don't understand why, in this modern age, with the opportunities and possibilities open to everyone, we (the worlds population) can't all just get along.:sad::confused:

A.:sad:

[bigcoyote]

I agree that the violence is counter productive and just breeds more violence - - but, if Hammas broke the cease fire ( launching rockets into Israel ) then Israel has the right to retaliate and make the border area safe.

One thing I have been told by friends of mine who have been stationed in the Middle-East is that they talk about things / events that happened hundreds or even thousands of years ago as if they just occured yesterday - and the feelings of hate and revenge run very deep.

I don't think there is a quick fix for all the problems over there - but someday I hope they can all live together without wanting to kill each other.

Any real solution will prob. take several generations to ease the feelings of hate & revenge.

Just my thoughts - I hate to see any innocent people hurt or killed, but it happens.

[The Dogfather]

The middle east is a wound that will continue to fester for years to come. There is no solution that will resolve the issues there as there is a (primarily) religious war raging across the whole region. Wars can be halted by compromise, however, religion and compromise don't work. There will always be a set of fanatics (on both sides) willing to break the cease fire to continue the fight.

This wiki page details the history of the creation of Israel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

[Craig]

war to me is non-sensical... :argh:

I don't know the whole story here, as I don't read newspapers and very rarely sit and watch the news on TV, but is there not some dubiaty as to who owns or has rights to the land? is this not what the fighting is about?

until that is resolved, there is not going to be peace there...:frown:

[Scottie]

Palestinian groups that represent the people do not now nor have they ever wanted lasting peace in the region.

Quite the contrary.

The want the full and total destruction of the Jewish state of Israel.

That is why they attacked Israel collectively in 1948. That is why they prepared to attack Israel in 1967 but were thwarted with a preemptive strike and that is why they again attacked on the Yum Kippur war. (That attack was on the highest of Jewish holidays. Like attacking NYC on Christmas Eve.)

The Arab-Israeli conflict is not now and has never been about lands seized during war. The conflict is now and continues to be about one thing: The existence of a Jewish homeland: Israel.

There was no West Bank, East Jerusalem, Gaza occupation in 1948 when the Arab coalition attacked. And the war that was about to start in 1967, there was also no issue on East Jerusalem, Gaza, West Bank, etc.

Two wars were started with Israel in an effort to destroy it long before there was Israeli occupation of Palestinian military positions.

*****

I think any and all attacks on Israel must stop before any two state agreement can reasonably be discussed.

Technically Hamas is a paramilitary organization and it's difficult for Israel to fight the crowds get Hamas to put a uniform on and Hamas would run scared.

Again, you don't want to award terrorists for bad behavior.

As for Israeli retaliation, while it is excessive, it is targeted and is also a necessary evil to continue to show the entire community of the Middle East that Israel will counter attack against attacks on it's country.

If Israel did not protect itself in this manner, it would have been destroyed long ago.

*******

We could then go on to talk about Russia and then Iran which IMO is a situation of more threat to us.

Russia are wanting to become a Super Power again. watch this space.

[illegalhunter]

Hamas were elected , one mans freedom fighter is an another mans terrorist. Without Yankie nukes they would be crushed by the Arabs around them . The UN stole Palistine and gave it to the Jews because the world turning a blind eye to the Holocost during WW2

[Sheilz]

I'm with illegal hunter on this one. Hamas was democratically elected. They are not a terrorist group as portrayed by the press in the Middle East as well as the West. I cant help but viewing Isreal as a very aggressive state that with the backing of the US has prevented the people of Gaza from developing into a fully functioning modern state. The fact that basic supplies have to be taken into Gaza through tunnels in peacetime as well as just now, speaks volumes about the suppression that the Palestininan people have had to endure for decades. If I was living in a country subjected to those conditions I might feel inclined to lob a few rockets towards my perceived enemy too. I would agree with Tom Shields in Sunday Herald whose commentary indicated that much of Isreal's behaviour towards Gaza has many similarities to the behaviour of the Nazis towards Jewish people in WW2. Of all the people in the world they are the one group (I wont call them a nation because they aren't - an artificial community set up to asuage the guilt of the 'victors' of WW2) that I would have expected to have greater compassion towards mass suffering than any other.
The events in Gaza has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the festering sore of having land taken without agreement and given to another.
While other Arab states remain very quiet about what is happening in Gaza this may be put down to the fact that Iran provides Gaza with its weapons (someone has to as a counter against more American funded aggression) and also because Arabic rulers are not too fond of the concept of democracy - the curse of the West.
The unnecessary waste of human life and the misery inflicted on innocent people is a tragedy. Sadly if all the minute threads that has contributed to this were to be unpicked we all might cringe at our own contribution in this.

[Gismo]

Why is it that certain country's and our Ireland troubles fall into this same deal, never forget what happened zillions of years ago and teach their children to hate their neighbours :sad:

[Sheilz]

Why is it that certain country's and our Ireland troubles fall into this same deal, never forget what happened zillions of years ago and teach their children to hate their neighbours :sad:

Its because we're a' Jock Tamson's bairns and we're human-ish some of us, most of the time. I dont think there's any nation in the world, not that I know of anyway (though that doesn't mean anything in its self !) that turns the other cheek because if they did the nation that dunted the first cheek would just think "What eejits, and dunt the other one in disgust. My take on it anyway. Think dunting other people's cheeks at various times in the course of times could be found at the root of major cheek dunting throughout the existence of mankind (woman too)