Opinion sought please...

[redpoint rallying]

Hi folks,

In persuance of a democratic opinion may I share the following with you?

Firstly, let me make it clear that I dont intend to cause any upset to the site owner or anyone else (and I appreciate that as the site is controlled by its owner and that any 'democratic' process may be reasonably null and void) however I recently submitted a rally report and photos of my rally car on the Tour of Mull rally.

The thread has been removed by the site owner for the following reasons, I hope the site owner does not mind me sharing the content of a PM with you.

"given the fact i've had a major dispute with Mini Sport i'm not allowing any mention of them on my site, nor am i prepared to allow pictures promoting their business.

I would appreciate it if you understood my stance and i am prepared to give you time to alter the thread to remove any wording of MS and the pictures.
I also noticed links to various sites that also promote them which, in fact breachers my sites non commercial advertising rules."

The reasons are given politely and I have apologised for any links to sites. I was however not quick enough to consider the other requests.

Any dispute with Mini Sport does not involve me. I am not connected to Mini Sport in any business way. We just enjoy our rallying. Its as simple as that.

I had hoped that any reports I submitted were of interest to the majority as uniquely I rally the only New Mini in Scotland, something that may be of real interest to a Scottish Mini website.

I can understand the site owners feelings on any company he may deal with where there is a dispute.

However I am interested in what any site members feel about me being censored as a consequence. This dispute has nothing to do with me.

I would like to offer this to the wider audience. If the majority of those who respond wish no further rally reports from me then thats ok, I will call a halt to them.

May I also appeal to the site owner not to remove this thread as I think there is a very important issue here.

Best regards

Martin

[ianking]

I did read your rallying report and I enjoyed the attached pics. I also remember reading previous reports that you had posted

I would hope that you will be able to continue with these reports as I enjoyed them.

[Big Gordy]

I for one enjoyed your rally report Mart but I do understand the stance taken by said owner. Its unfortunate you didn't notice until it was to late the option to edit your report. I hope this doesnt put you off submitting rally reports in the future....just remember to leave out any mention of sponsors next time and you should be fine:smilewinkgrin::Whistle:

[Gismo]

Hi folks,

In persuance of a democratic opinion may I share the following with you?

Firstly, let me make it clear that I dont intend to cause any upset to the site owner or anyone else (and I appreciate that as the site is controlled by its owner and that any 'democratic' process may be reasonably null and void) however I recently submitted a rally report and photos of my rally car on the Tour of Mull rally.

The thread has been removed by the site owner for the following reasons, I hope the site owner does not mind me sharing the content of a PM with youI'm very disppointed at the publication of a private message (PM).


"given the fact i've had a major dispute with Mini Sport i'm not allowing any mention of them on my site, nor am i prepared to allow pictures promoting their business.

I would appreciate it if you understood my stance and i am prepared to give you time to alter the thread to remove any wording of MS and the pictures.
I also noticed links to various sites that also promote them which, in fact breachers my sites non commercial advertising rules."



The reasons are given politely and I have apologised for any links to sites. I was however not quick enough to consider the other requestsI had noticed that you had logged on several times before i removed the thread which gave you ample opportunity to edit the thread as per my requirements.
I did notice that no links to NMS were on your site which kinda contradicts your wish to share yourself with the scottish mini community.


Any dispute with Mini Sport does not involve me. I am not connected to Mini Sport in any business way. We just enjoy our rallying. Its as simple as thatYou are correct, this dispute has nothing to do with you, it is my dispute and was quite personal to me.
I do believe they sponsor your team, therefore they are connected to you in a business way.
I also believe that they asked you to drive my classic mini to Banchory for further repairs???


I had hoped that any reports I submitted were of interest to the majority as uniquely I rally the only New Mini in Scotland, something that may be of real interest to a Scottish Mini website.

I can understand the site owners feelings on any company he may deal with where there is a disputeAny reports are greatly welcomed, i myself read your exploits and have commented many times in the past and would hope that you will continue to do so, all i ask is that you simply word the reports a bit more carefully in the future and do not highlight any commercial businesses that may benefit from any free advertising.
Given that you understand my feelings about MS then you can see my point of view.



However I am interested in what any site members feel about me being censored as a consequence. This dispute has nothing to do with me.

I would like to offer this to the wider audience. If the majority of those who respond wish no further rally reports from me then thats ok, I will call a halt to them.

May I also appeal to the site owner not to remove this thread as I think there is a very important issue here.

Best regards

Martin

I would like to point out that my replies are not aimed at diminishing the use of NMS to report on your rally's, but to edit your reports to not contain direct links to commercial businesses and to in no way highlight MS in any way or form either by type or picture.

[Gismo]

I did read your rallying report and I enjoyed the attached pics. I also remember reading previous reports that you had posted

I would hope that you will be able to continue with these reports as I enjoyed them.More than happy to allow Martin to report on his rally's.


I for one enjoyed your rally report Mart but I do understand the stance taken by said owner. Its unfortunate you didn't notice until it was to late the option to edit your report. I hope this doesnt put you off submitting rally reports in the future....just remember to leave out any mention of sponsors next time and you should be fine:smilewinkgrin::Whistle:As he says :thumbs up:

[Big Gordy]

Alan's actions should come as no surprise to any of us here on NMS as he's kept us all up to date, without going into particulars, about his ongoing saga with said company:yawn::p
Like I said in my post above Martin its a pity you didn't notice earlier the option to edit your report, if you had, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all:thumbs up:

[Gismo]

Alan's actions should come as no surprise to any of us here on NMS as he's kept us all up to date, without going into particulars, about his ongoing saga with said company:yawn::p
Like I said in my post above Martin its a pity you didn't notice earlier the option to edit your report, if you had, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all:thumbs up:And i'm more than happy to reinstate the original thread if Martin allows it to be edited

[redpoint rallying]

You are right, there are no links to my site, something that can be easily rectified.

I have however carried NMS website logos on the car for years and dish out my own 'flyers' with the NMS web address to unsuspecting spectators that are near enough at servicing and to parked Minis all over the place.

Yes I did drive your very lovely classic mini to get repairs. I also drove it back for you. I believe this to be more of a favour to you than anyone else.

I should reiterate I have no business connection to Mini Sport. We just enjoy getting the only 4 MINI rally cars in the UK together to go rallying.

But lets drag this back to the point - Surely if someone provides an internet forum to allow all manner of contributions from the public then
it cannot be that contributors are allowed to take part only if it is agreeable to the site owner.

Apart from obscene or insulting items, which obviously should be censored, there may well be contributions made that the site owner may not entirely agree with. But is it fair that because the owner simply has a different view, (even though he IS the owner) that a member should be asked to contribute only on the owners personal terms?

If you offer up what is basically a medium for public discussions to take place and information to be shared, then you should surely need to be aware that you may not necessarily like some of the content, even though others may find it of use or of interest?

In essence, I now am unable to share any rallying photos with readers or give a full and true account of the events on any rally we do?

Im afraid its all a mite churlish to me.

M

[Gismo]

And this is exactly why i didn't want this on the public forums, this is slowly turning into a slagging match of which i do not want.

You drove my classic, then you must have noticed one of the main problems, the stalling, as much as a help it may have been and to not want to sound ungrateful, you didn't do me any favours, but thanks all the same cause i know you went out of the way to ferry it about.
Something MS should have done themselves without hiring another garage to sort their problem which even the guy at Banchory admitted he couldn't fix.

Of course the forums are wide open, within reason, for the posting of all things relevant to the New Mini.

There are plenty threads with which i don't agree with, but easily allow.

For what reason are you now unable to share your rally reports with us at NMS?

[Gismo]

Im afraid its all a mite churlish to me.

MAnd this is the bit that urks me the most, given that i spent in excess of £7,000 at MS i feel that i have some rights as to what i'm gonna allow on my site when it all went horribly wrong

[Craig]

Not wishing to get into the "politics" of this... I will say this..

I can see both sides. Martin wanting to share his views and experiences of the rallying and Alan protecting his interests by stopping commercial advertising (however small) and the obvious MS links. ;)

I for one would like to see Martin continue his rally reports. :thumbs up: As a compromise Martin, could you not photoshop your photos slightly to take out the name of MS and not mention them in your reports and hey presto, Alan isn't upset and everyone gets to see the reports ? ?

[redpoint rallying]

Please understand Im not slagging anyone and the last thing I want to do is cause offence, its just that this is actually a very important issue. The issue of your dispute with any company has nothing to do with me and is not my concern as its none of my business.

My only point is that there is a precedent being set here that means something put on the website as a possible interest for the public can be censored just because the owner doesnt like it. This is clearly wrong.

I can understand any frustration from any dispute, but I need to make it clear again that this isnt the issue I am highlighting.

My only issue is as stated here. Forgive the analagy but its a touch of 'its my ball, i'll do what I like with it.'

Surely NMS was not set up to be governed in this way.

I have every sympathy with any dispute you may be involved with, but really that isnt the point here.

[Scottie]

Actually I can understand why Alan would not want mentioned or any photos that clearly promotes Mini Sport.

You have to understand at the end of the day this Allans site he owns it, it's not a business for him its a passion.

He has had a raw deal with Mini Sport but regardless he is well within his rights to say no pictures. logos or whatever with the name Mini Sport on it regardless who agrees or not.

The thing is to respect his position on this matter and continue to do your reviews of the rallying and omit anything with Mini Sport on it and let this be an end to the matter.:thumbs up:

[AndyP & Lenore]

Actually I can understand why Alan would not want mentioned or any photos that clearly promotes Mini Sport.

You have to understand at the end of the day this Allans site he owns it, it's not a business for him its a passion.

He has had a raw deal with Mini Sport but regardless he is well within his rights to say no pictures. logos or whatever with the name Mini Sport on it regardless who agrees or not.

The thing is to respect his position on this matter and continue to do your reviews of the rallying and omit anything with Mini Sport on it and let this be an end to the matter.:thumbs up:

Yeah. What she says.:thumbs up:

I do agree with Fi here Martin. I also enjoy reading your rally reports, and it would be a shame not to see them again.:frown:

But you've kinda hit the nail on the head with one of your sentences. It IS Alan's baw, and he'll play with who HE wants to. If he doesn't want MS mentioned, so be it. You may see that as unreasonable, or censorship or whatever, but the truth is, it's HIS site and if he says NO, that's a NO then.:Whistle:

A.:D

[ny152]

Certainly both parties have valid points and ideally you would want a report to be published uncensored. However, this site is Alan's baby (although he lets us all play with it) and ultimately it is up to the man in charge.

I think that quite a lot of site owners wouldn't allow this particular thread after they had sent a private message to someone regarding a matter. To his credit Alan has allowed this to happen.

Saying that, if we start to see threads about car washing and detailing disappear, I'm sure we'll all know who to blame :Whistle:.

[Gismo]

Please understand Im not slagging anyone and the last thing I want to do is cause offence, its just that this is actually a very important issue. The issue of your dispute with any company has nothing to do with me and is not my concern as its none of my business.
Once again, I agree, my dispute isn't anything to do with you directly, but, indirectly you linked to their site and showed pictures with their name, I had asked that you didn't mention or show any links to MS.

We could go on and on and on, the simple fact is, it's my site and i have chosen that for this time only i have made an executive decision to totally remove any links or photo's to MS on my site regardless of whether it's seen to be right or wrong in the eyes of a forum.
Of course i will continue to support you in your events and you're more than welcome to post up your reports and advise of future events.

[mikeythemini]

As the site owner I think Alan is well within his rights to do this, we have a similar rule within our Mini Club after a certain company (see above) shafted a few of our members.
A graphics program will easily alter the logos withour ruining the photos in a few seconds, it would be a shame not to see them at all.

[redpoint rallying]

Ok, its is your ball after all. I just dont agree. But Im sure we wont lose any sleep over it. ;bigwave:

M

[Gismo]

Ok, its is your ball after all. I just dont agree. But Im sure we wont lose any sleep over it. ;bigwave:

MExcellent, i've edited your initial report and posted it back up.
Thanks for your understanding :yes nod:

[redpoint rallying]

Just a thought..... in the Scottish Mini Cooper Cup thread/link, a gallery is allowed (on their site) which has great action photos of the race cars clearly showing their sponsors. Is this not 'commercial advertising'?

Does this not also breach the NMS rule in respect of the promotion of commercial businesses or is this ok as it is their website?

If this scenario is ok, would you similarly like a link to the Redpoint Rallying site?

Just a thought...;)

[Big Gordy]

This thread is a great example of why we all love NMS:thumbs up: This could have so easily snowballed into a full, no holds bared slagging match:ragin: but it didn't:clap: Well done guys I for one am proud of your conduct in this matter:moonie:

[Gismo]

Just a thought..... in the Scottish Mini Cooper Cup thread/link, a gallery is allowed (on their site) which has great action photos of the race cars clearly showing their sponsors. Is this not 'commercial advertising'?

Does this not also breach the NMS rule in respect of the promotion of commercial businesses or is this ok as it is their website?

If this scenario is ok, would you similarly like a link to the Redpoint Rallying site?

Just a thought...;)A fair question and a difficult subject matter, but, without getting into the nitty gritty of the specifics of it there is an arranged sponsorship agreement in place

[The Dogfather]

I was expecting a good row, but no. There's hasn't been a really good barny on here in ages, unless of course I've missed it.

[Big Gordy]

We just have them on your website now:moonie::Whistle:

[stoney]

no coment :rolleyes::p:clap::laugh:;bigwave:

[badwolf340]

Not been a member for long enough to know the in's and out's ,but hear we go ,have been on some really good run's and some really good people on hear ,that I and my family would consider as friend's , this is down to various people orginising (spelling) all of it ,but all this has been brought together by a web site .This is down to one person ,if this person has decided that for whatever reason ,he has to take this action ,I for one have absolutly no prob's and under similar circumstances ,would do the same thing.Thanks Allan for starting this site,and keeping thing's going.No offence to anyone else involved , :welcome::thumbs up::thumbs up::thumbs up::thumbs up:

[The Dogfather]

We just have them on your website now:moonie::Whistle:

We never row on our website:laugh: