Well I have ordered HIDs for the Dooper

[Scottie]

I know these Illegal etc etc etc. I need good lights for my trip to work as I use all the back roads and want good lights when winter comes around.

I have ordered a set from hids-direct as I understand these work well with the R56 and you do not get the bulb warning light. So fingers crossed.

gone for 6000k will post pics once I have them installed.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Fi, I think their legality is a grey area. Do you have headlamp washers? If so, they may well be OK. Although I don't think they carry the kitemark.:frown:

But you will notice a massive difference. The ones we had in the X5 made the difference between us not being able to drive the car at night and being able to. As long as you have them aligned properly, no reason you should have any trouble with the,

What annoys me is when we had our M Class we didn't need xenon's. The focusing system in the M Class gave us excellent throw and clarity at night. BMW's/MINI's appear to be pants.:ragin:

A.

[Scottie]

sadly I don't have the washers. I will make sure once Allan has fitted the hids that he takes it along the road to the garage to make sure they are aligned correctly. They advertise them as being e-marked & CE approved I will wait and see.

[FergusM]

I don't approve I'm afraid, head lamp washers / auto-levelling are on for a reason...

I think it is maddness to upgrade and not care about those that you may blind when driving to work.

Why not just upgrade the bulbs ?

[AndyP & Lenore]

Fergus, Fi's car will still have auto levelling. Pretty sure all MINI's have auto levelling, not just the Xenon equipped.

And as long as they are installed correctly and the base level is set right to start with, there's no reason at all why Fi would blind anyone.

It could certainly be argued that a proper installation is, in the long run, safer than suffering the poor output from the standard bulbs.

Uprating the bulbs would be an option, but there's only so far you can go with that, before that gets illegal, and does cause glare to other drivers.

A.

[AndyP & Lenore]

sadly I don't have the washers. I will make sure once Allan has fitted the hids that he takes it along the road to the garage to make sure they are aligned correctly. They advertise them as being e-marked & CE approved I will wait and see.

May be teaching my grannie/grandad to suck eggs, but remind Allan NOT to touch the glass of the bulb. They are under high pressure and the glass doesn't like the oils in human skin.;)

A.:D

[Big Col]

I don't approve I'm afraid, head lamp washers / auto-levelling are on for a reason...

I think it is maddness to upgrade and not care about those that you may blind when driving to work.

Why not just upgrade the bulbs ?

I agree. Sorry Fi.

Also Andy dinna talk keech! "Made the difference between us not being able to drive the car at night and being able to." Drama Queen! :D

[MINI William]

Why does it need the headlamp washers ?? :popcorn:

[FergusM]

Fergus, Fi's car will still have auto levelling. Pretty sure all MINI's have auto levelling, not just the Xenon equipped.

And as long as they are installed correctly and the base level is set right to start with, there's no reason at all why Fi would blind anyone.

It could certainly be argued that a proper installation is, in the long run, safer than suffering the poor output from the standard bulbs.

Uprating the bulbs would be an option, but there's only so far you can go with that, before that gets illegal, and does cause glare to other drivers.

A.

Mmm...never heard that all mini's have anuto levelling... can someone confirm ? Is there an adjustment dial to change the aim in the cars ?

Still...with no headlamp cleaning my point still stands..

[FergusM]

Why does it need the headlamp washers ?? :popcorn:

Dirt causes the light to diffract...meaning it can shine into on coming cars eyes.

[FergusM]

Fi, I think their legality is a grey area. Do you have headlamp washers? If so, they may well be OK. Although I don't think they carry the kitemark.:frown:

But you will notice a massive difference. The ones we had in the X5 made the difference between us not being able to drive the car at night and being able to. As long as you have them aligned properly, no reason you should have any trouble with the,

What annoys me is when we had our M Class we didn't need xenon's. The focusing system in the M Class gave us excellent throw and clarity at night. BMW's/MINI's appear to be pants.:ragin:

A.


And how is it a grey area ?

..legal requirement to have auto leveling and head lamp washers...seems pretty clear to me.

[MINI William]

Mmm...never heard that all mini's have anuto levelling... can someone confirm ? Is there an adjustment dial to change the aim in the cars ?

Still...with no headlamp cleaning my point still stands..

yehp they do the adjuster is on the left hand side of the steering colum :thumbs up:

[MINI William]

Dirt causes the light to diffract...meaning it can shine into on coming cars eyes.
okdoke :smilewinkgrin:.my dads evos never had the headlamp washers and the hids were standard on these or is it only a legal reqirment after a certain date or is it only for cars made in the uk.im not tryin to start any arguments jst wondering thats all :smilewinkgrin:

[FergusM]

Did a wee dig and came up with the following...



<H1 style="MARGIN: 0cm 8.5pt 6pt">Aftermarket HID headlamps - In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.


If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078
London Fax: 020 7944 2196
SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk (TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk)<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal">

[AndyP & Lenore]

I agree. Sorry Fi.

Also Andy dinna talk keech! "Made the difference between us not being able to drive the car at night and being able to." Drama Queen! :D

No drama there big man.;bigwave: The OEM lamps were the worst I've ever seen in a car. Throw was all of about 6 feet in dipped beam. And that was after we took it back to the dealer and had it checked, then re-checked, then rechecked again.:ragin:

A.:D

[AndyP & Lenore]

Did a wee dig and came up with the following...



Aftermarket HID headlamps - In the Department's view...... etc., etc., etc., ......... please contact the DfT at the address below.......

OK. So it's a fairly dark grey area. Almost completely black, in fact.

On the subject of self levellers, we've had a car that has a wee adjustable wheel to the right of the steering wheel, for adjusting the headlamps, in a car that has xenons fitted. And we've had a car that doesn't have xenons fitted that has auto levelling lamps. Can't swear these have been MINI's but I know we've had them.

But, you're right at the end of the day, with no wash facility, the diffraction from the lights could cause glare. Luckily, Fi keeps her car in tip top condition and is a founding member of the shiny club.

And as for you Mr M, just for proving me wrong, you're gettin' a hidin' next time we're on COD4.:hand: Claymore Kid or not!:laugh:

A.:D

[FergusM]

Oochhh you know you give me a hiding on COD4 no matter if i was right / wrong....


...I need to get some more practice in...few more levels and I'll get better guns etc...but still think I'll be sticking to Claymores as my fav "extra"...seem to work quite well :)

[The Dogfather]

These will go the same way as tints, there'll be a crackdown, expect a fine if you're caught with them.

[Scottie]

Oh I like this thread.

I know it's not the done thing to fit HIDS, however we have fitted them to several of our cars and not had any problems as yet. We always make sure our lights are aligned correctly.
However the only reason for them not to be aligned in the first place is because the car came that way from the factory and was not checked at the pdi, remember we are only changing the bulbs, finding a place to hide the ballast and nothing else, the aligment stays the same as prior to fitment.

TBH have none you ever noticed how the headlamp washers leave more of a mess to the headlights once they have been used. The only time they are of some use is when there is a lot of salt on the road they help break down some of the build up of salt residue on the lights, they don't however clean the lights effectively imo or get rid of the bug splat. So having the washers fitted to keep the lens clean for hids holds no water for me.

We only go for the 6000k and not the 8000k or 10000k

[FergusM]

Still illegal, still potential to blind on coming traffic....and worse than people using fog lights all the time.


....you should be burned at the stake ! ;)



And they are not "real" HID's if only the bulb that is getting changed ???...or I am getting confised as usual. Thought HID took a much higher voltage to work than normal bulbs.

[The Dogfather]

HID need a high voltage to fire up, but lower power consumption. There's a reason why this type of conversion is illegal, its because they can potentially dazzle oncoming traffic. Given that they could potentially cause an accident, does your insurance company know?

You might find that your insurance cover could be invalidated by having an 'illegal car', they only need the slightest excuse......

[Burple]

Auto Levellers are only on Minis with Xenons.. Minis with Halogen headlights have the headlight beam raise/ lower dial down beside the steering column. Well certainly all R50/53s have..

Dunno about these new fangled R56 things.. :p:D

[Scottie]

the movement of the lights you see happening when you switch them on is for the throw of the light, If I had only found my email from Nick@Jlevi SW in America who explained to me exactly the process as I had the same in my E46 my Mini is not auto level.

It's the bulbs and ballast that are fitted.

With the Mini head lights you have the cap over the end of the bulb this prevents a direct light getting beamed out, it is the side of the bulbs that reflect of the silver trim then the light gets thrown out. Nothing in the set up has changed the principle is still the same. I realise it's still illegal.

[euan]

Oh I like this thread.

I know it's not the done thing to fit HIDS, however we have fitted them to several of our cars and not had any problems as yet.


But have you driven the other way at the car retro fitted with HIDs?

I don't agree about the headlight washer being rubbish, I find that it helps but will never clear a lamp without a wiper (ah, I'm getting all retro, thinking about SAAB 99s here with the scraper across the lamp!).

[FergusM]

With the Mini head lights you have the cap over the end of the bulb this prevents a direct light getting beamed out, it is the side of the bulbs that reflect of the silver trim then the light gets thrown out. Nothing in the set up has changed the principle is still the same. I realise it's still illegal.


So you think that by changing the light source to a much brighter one and then removing the cap over the end of the bulb you are not changing completely the principle of how the lights are designed to work ?? :argh: I think you are altering completely how they were designed to work and have no guarantee that you'll not blind someone coming the other way...

I really think it is maddness....if you wanted xenon's..get a car with them factory fit....or put in the full factor fit system. If you want better vision at night get better bulbs.


or buy the night vision system that Mikey at newministuff mentioned

[Scottie]

So you think that by changing the light source to a much brighter one and then removing the cap over the end of the bulb you are not changing completely the principle of how the lights are designed to work ?? :argh: I think you are altering completely how they were designed to work and have no guarantee that you'll not blind someone coming the other way...

I really think it is maddness....if you wanted xenon's..get a car with them factory fit....or put in the full factor fit system. If you want better vision at night get better bulbs.


or buy the night vision system that Mikey at newministuff mentioned

Fergus, what are you on man:p where did I say I was removing the cap it's fixed to the inside of the head light you would have to break it to remove it::argh: anyway they will be installed tonight and I can't wait.:thumbs up:

[FergusM]

Just having a bad day/week at work.... this forum is a very nice distraction :)

[illegalhunter]

There only illegal when you get caught Fi , nobody here will shop you . lol

[illegalhunter]

Just having a bad day/week at work.... this forum is a very nice distraction :)
Get back to work Fergus :hand::hand::hand::hand::hand:

[Big Col]

There only illegal when you get caught

This is one for the scrapbook.