Grangemouth Shutdown - are you gonna panic buy

[AndyP & Lenore]

So, will you panic buy to fill up yer MINI?

[SimonS]

So, will you panic buy to fill up yer MINI?

The poll need another option for "I was at the garage at 8am this morning!"

I had no choice as I was empty and needed to be somewhere. I noticed that the Shell garage at the southern end of the Forth road bridge was out of unleaded at 1600 this afternoon.

[AndyP & Lenore]

The poll need another option for "I was at the garage at 8am this morning!"

I had no choice as I was empty and needed to be somewhere. I noticed that the Shell garage at the southern end of the Forth road bridge was out of unleaded at 1600 this afternoon.

lol

I guess if you're empty, you're empty, you gotta fill up sometime.:thumbs up:

A.:D

[Scottie]

No I'm not going to panic buy. Both cars filled up already:smilewinkgrin:

got enough that will last me over 2 months in need be:thumbs up: :thumbs up:

[Craig]

I voted no, but thats because I have 3 cars available to me all with full tanks before I even heard about this.. ;)

also I will get fuel regardless so no need to panic buy, however it is of note that the morrisons supermarket in stirling was queued out all day from when they opened, so they will be empty soon, then it is just a snowball effect from there..:rolleyes: :ragin:

some people will run out of fuel, it's inevitable due to people panic buying and if the supplies do not come out as expected, then it will just be worse.. :blush:

[Scottie]

Esso station at Larbert was queued cars from both directions:ragin: :ragin: along the main road.

[Colin]

It's the usual scenario, the media reports a story and says don't panic. And what do people do .......:frown:. They create a bigger problem by buying lots of fuel they normally wouldn't need.

[The Dogfather]

Filled up, but only cause I needed to. No queues here at all, no pumps dry all tickety boo. Must be just a Scotland thing.

[N12 JLK]

Went to Tesco earlier for some food shopping and the queue was massive, all waiting for fuel.

"Fruit cakes" I said and kerrs reply was " I don't like Fruit cake.":D :thumbs up:

[Sheilz]

Didn't notice anything out of ordinary in Abz or Montrose today. Forgot to fill up today. Bummer though coz I go through a lot of fuel in a week. S'pose can always use the ultra stuff if ordinary unleaded runs out:ragin:

Who will be entitled to fuel if things get really bad and the scaremongering becomes a reality?
Think the bosses should keep their thieving mitts off the workers' pension funds. Hopefully the public will support them and not just consider any inconvenience to themselves.

[Craig]

Sheilz,

all emergency services staff get priority, plus some of the essential public services... not sure of the full list, but during the last fuel strike, there were Police posted at the local petrol stations around me (the ones that were open) and they checked peoples entitlement..

it's sad that it comes to this, but as you say, it's important to think of those being affected with their pension, rather than a slight inconvenience to us.. :eyes up: :yes nod:

[N12 JLK]

if it kicks in I may have to cancel my trip to Inverness next week with work, boo hoo eh:D

[Scottie]

Sheilz,



it's important to think of those being affected with their pension, rather than a slight inconvenience to us.. :eyes up: :yes nod:

aye right. Don't forget that 99% of the workers are ex BP who have enjoyed a non contributory pension for all of their working lives or however long they have worked at BP/Ineos. So they want them to contribute now - tough. Oh and I bet you another thing for almost 100% sure they will have offered them a sum off money if they signed to the new pension.

what I find interesting is that a lot of the Media is reporting that some of the oil from the Forties pipeline gets refined at Grangemouth. I thought it was only oil from the North Sea that went through forties and I was always told Grangemouth don't refine North Sea Oil. unless they have started to in the last year.

[rpn]

The UK has 70 days' supply of fuel stock, So why panic buying? :argh:

Idiots.

[Gismo]

The UK has 70 days' supply of fuel stock, So why panic buying? :argh:

Idiots.It's a government ploy to allow them to increase the cost of fuel, cynical, not me :thumbs up:

[The Dogfather]

It's a government ploy to allow them to increase the cost of fuel, cynical, not me :thumbs up:

The last thing the government wants at the moment is higher fuel prices, as they in turn put all other prices up.

Then inflation goes through the roof and the Bank of England has to put up interest rates to meet its inflation target. Meaning the home price crash that the government is trying to avoid with the Mortgage Bonds happens........... only much much worse:yawn:

[euan]

I have to admit, I find a lot of the complaints about changes in pension plans very annoying. So what if whoever joins a company after a certain date have a contributory pension and not a non-contributory? You cannot expect that time stands still for 40 years, terms and conditions change due to the changes in legislation and financial implications. Simple fact of life. I missed out on my companies final salary pension by 3 years. Am I annoyed? a bit. Did anyone strike over it? No, just got on with it as it wouldn't have made a jot of difference.

To quote a sensible man, s**t happens. I feel sorry for those affected, and they might make a few quid out of it in the meantime, but we need to get out of the culture of striking to resolve disputes as it's the general public that have to suffer the consequences.

And agree with VB's point about higher prices, though if the governemnt reduced fuel duty we'd all be happier!

[Burple]

And agree with VB's point about higher prices, though if the governemnt reduced fuel duty we'd all be happier!


Quite right... I mean they have other sources for income.. why not increase the taxes on the group of people who have no choice? Those government sponsored drug addicts? If there really is interest in getting people to quit, tax cigarettes more. ;):D

[Duncan Stewart]

Had a full tank this morning and not gonna panic buy but hope there is fuel available by the end of the week or I will run out.
The small petrol tank of the R56 is annoying as it doesn't do so many miles as my last Cooper.

[Craig]

Fiona, I think the issue is loosing 6% of their salary right now.. if that is someone on £30k a year then its going to cost them £150 per month in a pay cut. I know that would hit me VERY hard.. I would be angry about it.. Saying that, I don't agree with strikeing, never have and left our union for that very reason. They wanted us to strike over 0.25% of an increase in wages, but loose out on a days pay and have to pay the pension contribution for that day also, loosing out in the long wrong.. madness. :mad:

I just think it could have been a staged change. 2% this year, 4% next year and then 6% the year after. It's not as if the company isn't making a profit..:rolleyes:

I just think there would have been a better way to deal with it..

the Shell station near my work has ran out of everything except V-Power already :rolleyes: why do people do it... chuffing idiots.. :mad: :ragin:

Also contingency is being put in place at the moment for how they will monitor and regulate fuel if they stop production at the end of the week.. :eek: :blush:

[vintageb3]

I heard today that the reason the plant is having to stop production was because of 8 individuals who are plant safety officers.

Don't know if this is true though.

The car has 1/4 of a tank...and I will try and put fuel in when I need the car. Both the vans were filled before word of this panic broke as per our normal schedule.

If there is going to be a fuel shortage...the car will be left in the garage to try and help those folks who really need the fuel...get their share.

If it means that I miss the next Mini run...so be it...after all...these runs are a luxury for all of us...and not really necessary motoring.

mark

[AndyP & Lenore]

Well the FL2 was running pretty low this morning so we filled up. Not because we were panicking over fuel, just because once the FL2 drops below the quarter mark it only goes for another 300yards and the engine is starved of fuel.

The red mini is pretty full. We filled it up a week ago and its hardly moved since. The blue mini is empty and we've no real plans to fill it up anytime soon.

When I filled up this morning I drove into the garage forecourt unmolested by any queue's. Straight to a pump. Went inside to pay said to the girl: "huh. No panic buying here then."

She replied: "You should have seen it this morning. Cars queued along the main road waiting to get fuel. But it's all nonsense. Our tanks are still quarter full, we have a delivery coming this evening, and another delivery tomorrow evening. When Grangemouth tell us they've none left, I'll just get it from a refinery down south. We sometimes do that anyway. Panic buying is what will cause more problems than the grangemouth stoppage will."

A.

[sedgie]

well i went into St Andrews today....to fill up!...not my car but hubby's as he needs his car!...lolol no diesel left:eyes up: ..lucky enough fuel in it to get to Dundee!....just shows you peeps are panic buying!:frown:

[duncan]

Instructed to fill both the works vans today, and not let them drop below half full. :rolleyes:

My MINI has a half full tank, which will last a few weeks yet.

[Sweeney]

Every petrol station ive passed and been in; About 8 in total? Has been as per normal, at various times of the day. Its a queer one...
Although the petrol station my dad has a personal account with did phone this morning saying they were allocating a set amount for account customers and to come fill up fast, as fuel deliveries were unconfirmed and unlikely for a day or 2. They had 3/4 fuel right enough but said it won't last (this at 8 in the morning)


I shall just play the usual fuel guage game and dash about in a panic as per ;)

[vintageb3]

Passed two stations today...cues were quite long at both.

mark

[duncan]

I wonder how many of the panic buyers will now restrict their speed to the most fuel efficient, and curb their journeys that are not 100% necessary?



None?

[N12 JLK]

it will be all the school run folks filling up:frown: , walk to school the way we all used to.:yes nod:

[SimonS]

Fiona, I think the issue is loosing 6% of their salary right now.. if that is someone on £30k a year then its going to cost them £150 per month in a pay cut.

Craig,

If the £30k is before tax then your figure of £150pm is wrong. Pension contributions are not taxed so the 6% would be deducted before any income tax or NI calculations are made.

Assuming £30k for 2007-08 and no pay rise for 2008-9 and leaving aside NI for the moment the difference is £119.08. The pension payments should also affect the NI payments so the gap should be slightly smaller. I fully agree that £119 is a significant amount on a take home of £1600ish but I think that paying 6% to be still left with a final salary pension scheme is still far better than the alternative of 'money purchase' where you would have to put in 25%+ to get anywhere close.

Having been through a similar situation with my employer last year (they wanted us to increase our contributions) an answer was found in an HMRC approved scheme called 'Salary Sacrifice'. Basically, your employer pays you an additional amount of money which you voluntary agree to 'sacrifice' back to the company as pension contributions. The company win because it does not attract employers NI contributions. In our company you may keep the additional pay but you then have to contribute 20% to the pension instead of our normal 7.5%.

Good luck with you battle. Just remember that thanks to Gordon Brown there are very few final salary pension schemes still in existence and even fewer that are non-contributory.

[duncan]

Good luck with you battle. Just remember that thanks to Gordon Brown there are very few final salary pension schemes still in existence and even fewer that are non-contributory.

Its thanks to John Major that my pension fund is gubbed.
BR used to have one of the best pension funds in the UK, all that is sadly a distant memory now.

No matching increases for AVCs, and a massive hike in payments.

Anyway, seeing as I was labelled the board socialist ;) , i'd like to say "Up the Workers!"

[Scottie]

Fiona, I think the issue is loosing 6% of their salary right now.. if that is someone on £30k a year then its going to cost them £150 per month in a pay cut. I know that would hit me VERY hard.. I would be angry about it.. Saying that, I don't agree with strikeing, never have and left our union for that very reason. They wanted us to strike over 0.25% of an increase in wages, but loose out on a days pay and have to pay the pension contribution for that day also, loosing out in the long wrong.. madness. :mad:

I just think it could have been a staged change. 2% this year, 4% next year and then 6% the year after. It's not as if the company isn't making a profit..:rolleyes:



Ineos said it was planning to delay the introduction of contributions from the workers to the pension scheme so that these were phased in at 1% a year over six years from April next year.
The initial proposal was 2% a year for three years

Remember not all fuel supplied to retail sites in Scotland comes from Grangemouth.:smilewinkgrin: Try Asda;) If Grangemouth strikes but I don't think it will there is plenty ways to get fuel up to Scotland but if people panic buy then we will have problems meeting demand.

Ending the non contributory pension was on the cards since about 2003/2004
then Grangemouth was sold Ineos bought it in 2005 the staff were in Tupe for 12 months and it's taken this long since then to get the offer on the table. Now I would be surprised if the staff have not been offered a money incentive for them to sign the deal which at a guess would mean that they would not the see the impact of 6% contribution for another 18 to 24 months. Ok the money is now coming off their monthly pay but they will have got their incentive up front.


Also has any of us been told what the companies contribution will be to the pension??

I would have been more mad if they had stopped the share save scheme or indeed the share match.

Craig I had £250 a month coming of my wages for my shares yes the 1st month was a bit of a shock but you soon get used to it and like the pension it is at the end of the day money for you in the future.

Just hope if they do strike and do a complete shutdown that I am out of the area when they bring the plant back on line. Have you seen the state of some of the pipes and kit in the chemicals section.

I would reckon Ineos will have to pay a penalty clause to BP for shutting down and not refinning oil.

My 26 year non contributory final salary pension is now frozen. I won't be transferring it. When I get another job I will just go with whatever crap pension scheme they have.

[Scottie]

Was in at the filling station this morning buying fags. It was manic one guy filled his car with 1.9litres :ragin: :ragin: and he got a whats whats from the girl at the till.

[Gismo]

Was in at the filling station this morning buying fags. It was manic one guy filled his car with 1.9litres :ragin: :ragin: and he got a whats whats from the girl at the till.Just enough to get him home :frown: i'd have given him a load of verbal as well, eejits :argh:

[rpn]

Was on the bike this morning and the fuel gauge light was flashing, the count down shows about 12 miles left to completely empty tank. Just enough to get home to-night.

6:50am at the BP garage, there were 4 lines of 4 car deep queuing to panic buy. The very first car in my line moved off but the two waiting cars in front of me can't move because of another car still at the till. So I managed to jump right to the pump at the front.


TV news last night…. A wifie was saying, “Filled the car first thing up this morning, run the kids to school, went to the supermarket and I just filled her up again.” :argh: :argh: :argh:

Get a life woman. :mad:

[AndyP & Lenore]

TV news last night…. A wifie was saying, “Filled the car first thing up this morning, run the kids to school, went to the supermarket and I just filled her up again.” :argh: :argh: :argh:

Get a life woman. :mad:

Saw that. She started off by saying "oh I'm not panic buying, but I filled first thing this morning........."

A.:rolleyes:

[Burple]

Hey.. if I run out, I run out. I'll get to work if and when I can! :smilewinkgrin::D:D
At least it's getting a little bit warmer now, I can cycle to work if I have to :D

[vintageb3]

I laughed at the guy who was asked: "Are you panic buying?"...he replied..."No....I'm being very calm, controlled and ruthless":cool:

At least he was honest:D

mark

[Scottie]

I was thinking tonight. ( my head hurts now):smilewinkgrin: anyway
we are in to day 2 of panic buying likely more panic tomorrow now that Ineos have announced their slapping unite with legal action.

Most of the retail sites tonight will now be running low some may already be out of product. I would not be buying any product tonight why? well as most of you will already know retail sites have to close their pumps when the stock level in their underground tanks reaches a 1000litres, the reason they do this is so no sediment is stirred up at the bottom of the tank. I can tell you no retail site really likes to go that low.

Now stock of 1000litres ain't much of a covering in a 30,000 litre tank while it's still ok to sell @ 1500 litres there is not a lot margin between the 2 levels. So my advice is just be careful when filling up you don't want any of the crap from their tank to go into your tank. I know we have no real way of knowing what their levels are at. However if this turns out to be a long drawn out affair and they do a complete shutdown and fuel remains in short supply I would ask my local station in conversation what their stock levels are like and if they have any idea when they next expect a delivery- before I fill my car.

I've been told:smilewinkgrin: that a good many on the central retail sites are getting deliveries in the early hours tonight. So if you need fuel fill tomorrow morning.:D

Anyway I just thought I would say.:blush:

[Sheilz]

Thing about the panic buying that puzzles me is the fact that generally folk can only buy what their tanks will allow them. Only folk carrying spare tanks to stash at home could really be said to be panic buying.
Noticed a bit of queueing in ABZ and Montrose today. Was going to top up but couldn't be bothered. Am now harbouring hostile thoughts towards my clients coz it might mean using all my fuel just coz they cant b****y well behave themselves/look after their wains and not having any for my own needs:ragin:

Hear what you were saying Fiona about the pensions and I know its a top notch deal they have but I just think working folk should stop greedy bosses from attacking people's terms and conditions of employment. If it was a company struggling for survival fair enough, but I just think they're trying to rob their workers to increase their already staggering profits. I dont think it really matters whether these people are on generous salaries or not. (I hope the bosses of ACC are reading this - LEAVE TERMS AND CONDITIONS ALONE YA HEAR ME:ragin::moonie:)

[AndyP & Lenore]

I was thinking tonight. ( my head hurts now):smilewinkgrin: anyway
we are in to day 2 of panic buying likely more panic tomorrow now that Ineos have announced their slapping unite with legal action.

Most of the retail sites tonight will now be running low some may already be out of product. I would not be buying any product tonight why? well as most of you will already know retail sites have to close their pumps when the stock level in their underground tanks reaches a 1000litres, the reason they do this is so no sediment is stirred up at the bottom of the tank. I can tell you no retail site really likes to go that low.

Now stock of 1000litres ain't much of a covering in a 30,000 litre tank while it's still ok to sell @ 1500 litres there is not a lot margin between the 2 levels. So my advice is just be careful when filling up you don't want any of the crap from their tank to go into your tank. I know we have no real way of knowing what their levels are at. However if this turns out to be a long drawn out affair and they do a complete shutdown and fuel remains in short supply I would ask my local station in conversation what their stock levels are like and if they have any idea when they next expect a delivery- before I fill my car.

I've been told:smilewinkgrin: that a good many on the central retail sites are getting deliveries in the early hours tonight. So if you need fuel fill tomorrow morning.:D

Anyway I just thought I would say.:blush:


All sound advice Fi.:thumbs up:

A.:D

[N12 JLK]

Just saw on the news that the strike is more than likely on!

The 2 petrol stations near us are out of unleaded. So, I must admit I did fill up with V-power (which we always use) even though I only had 2 lights out. But it did come to just over 20 quid.

Asked the woman in the petrol station when they were due a delivery and she said she was not sure. She did say "I think it must be that thing thats on the news." Do you think so??????:confused:

[Scottie]

Have any of you been reading or seen that some retail sites are putting up the price of petrol.:eek: :eek: :eek:

I've got to tell you this really gets my back up. Is fuel shortage a good reason to over inflate the price.???

[Craig]

I have to say Fi, that this is being watched and from what I understand, being reported to Scottish Govt.. :mad: It's not right...:ragin:

what I would say tho, is that a lot of the stuff coming out from all sides conflicts and is very hard to work out if we are going to have shortages or not. What I do know from talking to friends at Ineos is that if there are no problems, it will take approx 3 weeks to bring the plant back to full production, but over the years, there has ALWAYS been problems bring parts of the plant back on-line, so who knows how long it could be down and we will be getting our supplies from England. :rolleyes: ;)

[Scottie]

I have to say Fi, that this is being watched and from what I understand, being reported to Scottish Govt.. :mad: It's not right...:ragin:

what I would say tho, is that a lot of the stuff coming out from all sides conflicts and is very hard to work out if we are going to have shortages or not. What I do know from talking to friends at Ineos is that if there are no problems, it will take approx 3 weeks to bring the plant back to full production, but over the years, there has ALWAYS been problems bring parts of the plant back on-line, so who knows how long it could be down and we will be getting our supplies from England. :rolleyes: ;)

good glad to hear it no way should the price of fuel be going up that much 5ppl they are having a joke. I've never in my past life put fuel up that much not in one go.;) At least we will have some clean air for the next couple of days with the site shutdown. They have no idea how the re start will go how can they?

there has never been a complete shutdown before.

[Craig]

They have no idea how the re start will go how can they?

there has never been a complete shutdown before.

Exactly, so if they have problems with just small parts of the site, who knows how a complete re-start will go... I just have my fingers crossed.. :smilewinkgrin:

[Scottie]

Exactly, so if they have problems with just small parts of the site, who knows how a complete re-start will go... I just have my fingers crossed.. :smilewinkgrin:

hope the grangemouth residents have their windows taped.:rolleyes:

and maybe this will be a good idea.:shut up: :shut up:

H'mm when was the last time the siren got tested I wonder.:laugh:

[AndyP & Lenore]

Exactly, so if they have problems with just small parts of the site, who knows how a complete re-start will go... I just have my fingers crossed.. :smilewinkgrin:


hope the grangemouth residents have their windows taped.:rolleyes:

and maybe this will be a good idea.:shut up: :shut up:

H'mm when was the last time the siren got tested I wonder.:laugh:

Ain't it like... y'know.... "CTRL-ALT-DEL" Twice.:eek: :D

A.:D

[Scottie]

also you can't help but wonder if this will effect the National Grid. I know going back to the 70's Grangmouth put something like a third into the Grid.

I dare say there is a lot more power stations now though.:thumbs up:

[stoney]

well i went to the shell today at larkhall and all they have left is v power lucky for me thats what i use

[Big Gordy]

One of Ross' mates works at the refinery and he says they have 17 days cover for the whole of Scotland stored on site at Grangemouth:eek: :eyes up: :thumbs up: Also read in the Falkirk Herald that there is only 2 petrol stations that have not put there prices up:eek: Morrisons at Brockville and I cant remember the other one:o Every other petrol outlet has put there's up:ragin: Tesco's put there's up by 1p:argh:

[Big Col]

Isn't putting up the petrol price a decent way of trying to limit the panic buying?

[monkimagic]

For immediate release
Friday 25th April 2008
Union leader to address Grangemouth workers
Tony Woodley, Joint General Secretary of Unite, will address a mass meeting of workers at INEOS in Grangemouth today ahead of a two day strike planned for Sunday 27th and Monday 28th April.
Tony Woodley is attending the plant to make clear Unite’s, the UK’s largest trade union, steadfast support and solidarity for the Grangemouth workers as they prepare to strike action to defend their pensions. Unite has 1,200 members at the plant involved in the dispute.
The mass meeting will take place this afternoon (Friday 25th April), close to the plant after talks at ACAS failed earlier in the week. Ineos, the multi million pound company that owns the plant has refused to back down over plans to close the well-funded pension scheme to new entrants that will make the scheme unsustainable in the longer term.
The company has already moved to reduce its contributions to the scheme and has made other detrimental pension changes for employees, including introducing financial penalties for early retirement. These changes were made against the wishes of the pension scheme members and breached a six month consultation.
Unite has left the door open to negotiations and says if the company is willing to negotiate in the proper sense, it will respond. The Grangemouth workers have guaranteed safety and emergency cover during the duration of the dispute.

-Ends-

[Scottie]

Shame they are not bringing the V Power in from Holland cause I'm thinking it's a 100 Octane over there could be wrong but I'm sure I saw that rating on their pumps. That would be good for tonights track day