T5 - national disgrace IMHO.

[AndyP & Lenore]

What a disgraceful state of affairs for a massive company like BA to get themselves in.

Surely, heads are gonna roll once the dust has settled.

BBC News Clicky Linky (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7320771.stm)

A.:(

[Gismo]

I'm due to go through Heathrow on Monday, i'm so glad BA sold the Baku route to BMI

[duncan]

I'm glad I've booked to go with an airline that flies direct to the US from Scotland, unlike London Airways.

Last time I transited through LHR, my bags were damaged, so I have no love of the place, and try to avoid it.

Its not really a "national disgrace" as HMG aren't really involved, although its fairly typical of large infrastructure projects in the UK.

Anyone looking forward to the 2013 Olympics now? :eek: ;)

[Gismo]

Anyone looking forward to the 2013 Olympics now? :eek: ;)Can't wait, but, just in case i'm gonna look out in 2012 :D

[AndyP & Lenore]

I'm glad I've booked to go with an airline that flies direct to the US from Scotland, unlike London Airways.

Last time I transited through LHR, my bags were damaged, so I have no love of the place, and try to avoid it.

Its not really a "national disgrace" as HMG aren't really involved, although its fairly typical of large infrastructure projects in the UK.

Anyone looking forward to the 2013 Olympics now? :eek: ;)

When I say national disgrace, I regard BA as a national icon. It was for many years our national airline, and remains so in name "British Airways". Whatever the the rest of the world knows about the company the fact is, as one of the largest airline companies in the world it still carries the Union Jack as it's emblem and will be regarded for all intents and purposes as British.

The rest of the world will be laughing at us.:(

Our own experience with luggage at Heathrow is not good also. Flew from Edinburgh to Heathrow with BA, then on to Orlando with Virgin. Our bags got to Heathrow and stopped. We got all the way to Orlando with no clothes/supplies/etc. Will not be caught out like that again.:rolleyes:

A.:D

[duncan]

When I say national disgrace, I regard BA as a national icon. It was for many years our national airline, and remains so in name "British Airways". Whatever the the rest of the world knows about the company the fact is, as one of the largest airline companies in the world it still carries the Union Jack as it's emblem and will be regarded for all intents and purposes as British.

The rest of the world will be laughing at us.:(



Yeah, a fair point I suppose, I just stopped thinking of BA as the National Carrier years ago, when they slashed the network, and concentrated on LHR.

I'm fairly sure that there are no "BA" numbered flights from Scotland anymore, they're only "SHT" for shuttles to down south. They may appear to be BA flights at the airport, but they don't report to ATC as "BA".

If you want more info on airliners, may I suggest airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net) and if you want to track flights using Google Maps, and Google Earth, OpenATC (http://www.openatc.com).

[Scottie]

I don't do airports or planes.

[AndyP & Lenore]

I don't do airports or planes.

You used to.

What changed?

A.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Yeah, a fair point I suppose, I just stopped thinking of BA as the National Carrier years ago, when they slashed the network, and concentrated on LHR.

I'm fairly sure that there are no "BA" numbered flights from Scotland anymore, they're only "SHT" for shuttles to down south. They may appear to be BA flights at the airport, but they don't report to ATC as "BA".

If you want more info on airliners, may I suggest airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net) and if you want to track flights using Google Maps, and Google Earth, OpenATC (http://www.openatc.com).

Whenever Neil and I go down to London for conferences, we usually take BA1433 from Edinburgh to Heathrow and BA1462 from Heathrow to Edinburgh. occasionally we will go to/from Gatwick. When we get to the airport (after checking in online on BA's web site) we go to the departure gate, are shepherded onto the BA plane by BA staff wearing BA uniforms, flown by BA pilots to Heathrow and get off the airport into BA's section of LHR.

How are they not BA flights?:confused: Not picking a fight, in any way, just interested in what you're saying.:confused:

A.

[duncan]

Whenever Neil and I go down to London for conferences, we usually take BA1433 from Edinburgh to Heathrow and BA1462 from Heathrow to Edinburgh. occasionally we will go to/from Gatwick. When we get to the airport (after checking in online on BA's web site) we go to the departure gate, are shepherded onto the BA plane by BA staff wearing BA uniforms, flown by BA pilots to Heathrow and get off the airport into BA's section of LHR.

How are they not BA flights?:confused: Not picking a fight, in any way, just interested in what you're saying.:confused:

A.

Yep, you're right, the shuttles are operated by the company British Airways.

Its the flight numbers used by ATC/BA for the internal UK flights which are refered to as Shuttle, rather than Speedbird, and will have "SHT" rather than "BAW" as the callsign.

[duncan]

See, I must be getting old, but this is when British Airways WAS British Airways.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/photos/4/3/0/0989034.jpg

[Scottie]

You used to.

What changed?

A.

I have never done airports or airplanes willingly. I have forced myself
to do it but never ever willingly.

Why do you think I tour Europe a lot in the caravan I can do ferries no problem. ALthough to be fair in 2004 (I think it was) we paid for one of those helicopter flights that took in Yung Frau that was pretty amazing.

Allan on the other hand loves flying whether it be big planes wee planes Helicopters (hanging out of them) gliders. ALthough I think his trip to Ascension Island and then on to the Falkland Islands in the back of a cargo plane took him to limit once the RAF don't even bring round cups of tea.:rolleyes:

[euan]

Heathrow is just a nightmare at the best of times. I fly through it at least once a month and you are usually delayed on the flights - BMI are better than BA though.

It's just not a fun place to travel through. Gatwick isn't much better either. I much prefer to fly from the regional airports if I can.

[AeroJonny]

Before I say anything, I should state my background. BA has fed, clothed, paid school fees and kept me in MINIs ;). Dad worked for them for 37 years and Mum for 19.

I'd say that BA is still the national carrier, it's the biggest airline in the uk with the most international routes. Just because there are very few direct international flights from regional airports, doesn't mean it's not a national carrier. Most other international airlines have their own hubs which they fly in and out of: Emirates go via Dubai, KLM via amsterdam, etc. Even the american airlines that fly direct to a hub, usually one of the ny airports, usually involve a connecting flight to an onward destination. It's a fact of life that living in Scotland and flying internationally will mean a flight connection 70-80% of the time (those aren't actual statistics, just postulation)

I flew into T5 this afternoon from lax expecting the worst as all the ba flights from lax to t5 were delayed due to the issues there. We were only delayed 30mins, I've been delayed 8hrs :eek: flying from bristol to glasgow. Overall, our experience was pleasant. There's a short ride in a subway type vehicle from the plane to arrivals/transit, at the moment they're only 2 small carriages long. It was a bit of a scrum to get in them, people just need to have a little patience and wait literally a couple of minutes for it to come back, the alternative to this 1m train ride is a 17min walk. the other glitch we encountered was that as transit passengers, our photo wasn't taken at any point in t5 and it's required by the security checkpoint at the gate, so we had to wait 5 mins for a security supervisor to come and check our passports.

Perhaps a more gradual introduction of flights to the new facility would have been a better idea, as there's no doubt the first couple of days were pharcical.

[duncan]

Jonny, with the greatest respect for your families position, I sadly feel that BA is no longer British. Its London Airways all the way. Even Manchester is now is only a single flight to NYC.

My dad was in the travel game for 30 odd years, and as a kid we frequently got standby flights from Edinburgh for a weekend away. That's the BA I fondly remember.

BA has shrunk the network so much, just what international flights from any Scottish airports do they fly? None.

If foreign airlines like Delta, Continental, and Emirates can be bothered to fly long-haul from Edinburgh and Glasgow, then, why do BA not?

[AeroJonny]

you're completely entitled to your opinion duncan, and you're right in saying that there are no international routes from scottish airports. British airways has indeed shrunk their network a great deal, but they have done this to concentrate on busier routes and follow what they deem to be a more lucrative business plan in the long term. Afterall, their loyalty is to their shareholders, not the British public as a whole. How many international destinations were available to BA customers in the first place anyway?

I can only think that BA doesn't fly long haul from edinburgh and glasgow as it is not as profitable as the other routes they have chosen to operate. Emirates do indeed fly long haul from scotland, yet they only fly to dubai from here. I'm sure with your family's experience in the travel industry that you'll realise that most international airlines fly out of a main hub, and with the small consumer base available to airlines in scotland, it makes better financial sense to consolidate your routes and have regional passengers fly into your main hub. I'm sure the american carriers do similar things with passengers flying from smaller states to a hub city like new york or chicago, then onto their final destination. I know of some people having to change aircraft several times to cross the usa as the simple problem is that every airline cannot fly every route.

[euan]

Jonny, your quite right that it's all going hub based, that's why Boeing's new plane is designed for hub to hub flights. I'm not necessarily agreeing with the strategy however as while the need to make money is always going to win out over convenience, they (airlines, not just BA) should be encouraged to support the smaller regional routes.

The reason nearly everyone flies out if London these days is that there is a massive catchment area for Heathrow - it's 90 minutes from Birmingham after all so you've got the whole of London and up to and around Birmingham that's a massive amount of people to be able to sell flights to. They will always find it easier to sell out a flight with that as a target rather than say, Glasgow and Edinburgh as there just isn't the density of people.

In saying that, it's the density of people that live down here that drive me bonkers and want to get out!

[AeroJonny]

I agree entirely with what you're saying euan. I hadn't even thought about how big the catchment was!

I know exactly what you mean by the density of people down there, it's astonishing.

[euan]

Yeah, it's quite scary really. What makes it worse is that more and more people are moving here all the time!

Interestingly, I was at Heathrow on Friday picking up my brother in T1 - it's SO much quieter without BA in it! I'm flying form there on Friday so while the terminal might be better the queue for the runways seems to be the same...

[duncan]

Jonny, your quite right that it's all going hub based, that's why Boeing's new plane is designed for hub to hub flights.

Are you sure? The A380 is the hub to hub plane, while the Dreamliner is being touted as the one for regional non-stop routes.