Milltek Exhaust System - 175 bhp to 202 bhp!!

[Eggy7496]

Hey guys have you seen this article?

http://www.millteksport.com/media/images/press/28.pdf

Looks amazing! Apprenetly the guys at Milltek got a standard cooper s and put this full system on it and it brought the cars power up to 202 bhp!!

I called Checkpoint in aberdeen and they said that the full system would cost £894 and thats including fitting it.

What you's think? WOW just imagine what you could do if you then changed the turbo!! MEGA POWER but prob no traction lol.

EJ

[AndyP & Lenore]

The figures do look pretty good, until you see that standard R56's are being tested around the 192 to 195 range. It looks like MINI are underdeclaring the BHP on the cars that leave the factory.

Nice looking exhaust mind you.

But to honest, I'd rather go for this Alta cat back exhaust system from Lohen. (http://www.lohen.co.uk/shop2/proddetail.asp?prod=AltaCatbackexhaustsystemgen2)

A.;)

[The Dogfather]

That one sounds a bit agricultural.

[illegalhunter]

I would take all these figures with a large pinch of salt. A zost providing all that power seams far fetched to me

[Gismo]

Hmm, over 25bhp for an exhaust change, i'd have to doubt that claim until i was shown before and after dyno charts ;)

[The Dogfather]

They never showed the before chart, probably for a very good reason. When we took the R56 S for a spin Jackie commented on how it seemed faster compared to the Brabus. I dismissed it as the Brabus was supposed to have a better power/weight, but if MINI have been under reporting the power now it makes sense.

They wouldn't be the only manufacturer to do it, Mazda claim 0-60 in 7.9 for my car but 2 magazines have tested it to be sub 7 seconds. I don't know why they do it, but it makes you wonder what power output the new JCW has doesn't it?

[MINI William]

25BHP from just an exhaust change sounds a bit funny.

[N12 JLK]

Phew Im exhausted just reading all this:p

[Craig]

it's a bit expensive Eggy, you could have mine for £225. ;)

[MINI William]

it's a bit expensive Eggy, you could have mine for £225. ;)

but he wont get a 25BHP boost tho lol:D

[AndyP & Lenore]

but he wont get a 25BHP boost tho lol:D

Nor will you with the Miltek.:eek: :rolleyes:

A.:D

[Eggy7496]

Guess theres only one way to find out!! So do you guys think the standard cooper s is arriving with more than 175 bhp?

[Craig]

Guess theres only one way to find out!! So do you guys think the standard cooper s is arriving with more than 175 bhp?

I would say Yes, as it has been proved that a JCW Supercharged S is only marginally quicker than a standard R56.

:D :D

[Craig]

Exhaust that I have is here...... :D :D :D :D



http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/miniadventures/ex3.jpg



http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/miniadventures/ex1.jpg

[Eggy7496]

Thats nice! Is that got a full milltek system too?

EJ

[Craig]

Thats nice! Is that got a full milltek system too?

EJ

nope, ;)

custom made, stainless steel and for sale. :D

[AndyP & Lenore]

Thats nice! Is that got a full milltek system too?

EJ

Eggy, I've sent you a PM regarding this.;)

That exhaust Craig has posted up is a bespoke exhaust he had made by a local company. It's not a Miltek. It looks amazing, sounds fantastic and gives more power. For the price, it is a bargain if you were thinking of changing to an aftermarket exhaust. More details in the PM.:D

A.;)

[Gismo]

sounds fantastic and gives more power. Interesting, how much and how do you know

[AndyP & Lenore]

Interesting, how much and how do you know

All based on experience. I drove our unmodified R56, then drove Craig's car, then back into my own car, for comparison, and in my opinion, Craig's car was more powerful with that exhaust fitted.

Edit: Should also add that every exhaust manufacturer who has fitted an aftermarket exhaust to an R56 who has tested before and after has also recorded an increase in power output. Perhaps only 10 or so BHP, but noticeable all the same. No reason to suggest Craig's exhaust would be any different, taking into account the similarities in the manufacturing process - larger bore pipe and less baffling = less restriction to airflow.

A.:D

[Eggy7496]

I got your PM thanks very much, you guys have been brilliant, helped clear up many things. Roughly how much were you for your system Craig?

EJ

[Craig]

I got your PM thanks very much, you guys have been brilliant, helped clear up many things. Roughly how much were you for your system Craig?

EJ


I paid £350 for it fitted and it was on the car for only 6 weeks. :eek: Nothing wrong with the exhaust, just problems with my car and it had to go... :rolleyes: :)

If interested, PM me and we can talk details :cool:

[ELFMAN]

Nice custom system Craig and it sounds good too, which is 80% of the FUN -
go for it Eggy!!!!

As for the Milltek - 25bhp just from a system? @RSE BISCUITS!!!! If they got that increase, the standard one must have had two spuds stuck up it! "ZORST-U-LIKE" anybody? You'd MAYBE get something approaching that figure if you got into a Manifiold and/or sports Cat/replacement downpipe and a remap with the system. As Andy said, the R56 is definately putting out a lot more than the 'official' 175bhp. The Milltek's probably worth about 8bhp in real life.

[The Dogfather]

The Milltek's probably worth about 8bhp in real life.

I reckon you're spot on with that, that's how much Larini claim for the system I have on my 5

[drb5374]

Turbo'd cars can GREATLY improve with an aftermarket system.

Catalysts drain so much power.....way more than an N/A car.

I wouldn't quite hope for 25hp from a S/S system on the S, but i doubt it's as low as 10hp.

[Eggy7496]

Ive been doing some more research into this and apparently the R56 Cooper S std system is very very restrictive. I was being told some technical jargon stuff by the man from turriff tyres when i was enquiring about powerflow system and he basically mentioned that the cat used in the milltek one is the nuts!

I say i get it, then take yous for a spin to see what it can do!! lol.

EJ

[FergusM]

That is not what I had read on mini2.... Roland from GTT believed the standard exhaust ws good for up to 300bhp...he believed the issue is the restrictive cat. So not sure you'll get much from the exhaust, apart from sounding much better.

Also, remember some turbo cars need back pressure to get turbo to work correctly, sometime too little can cause drops in power.

[Eggy7496]

Surely Milltek cant say that it takes it to over 200 bhp if it didnt, aint that false advertising?? Any 200 bhp mini is a weapon in my opinion, i think this is just another way of getting to the 200 bhp mark without having to fork out for the works kit, mind u the milltek system aint cheap.

EJ

[The Dogfather]

Surely Milltek cant say that it takes it to over 200 bhp if it didnt, aint that false advertising?? Any 200 bhp mini is a weapon in my opinion, i think this is just another way of getting to the 200 bhp mark without having to fork out for the works kit, mind u the milltek system aint cheap.

EJ

No, what people are saying yes the Miltek car produces 200+ but most of that is because a standard car puts out 190+ not 175 MINI claim. You can spend what craig did on his and get nearly the same.

[Eggy7496]

Please Read: http://www.millteksport.com/news.read.cfm?articleid=72

EJ

[The Dogfather]

Eggy, they never actually tested the car before they put the exhaust on. BMW claim it only has 175bhp and thats what Miltek claim the standard car has. However in reality a standard car is producing closer to 190 if not more. So their claim that the exhaust gave 28bhp is misleading.

[Eggy7496]

Ok i see what your saying chief, u reckon the R56 is as high as 190 bhp? My sister has an R56 just now, i say i have a wee shot and take it to the rolling road, im so intrigued now to what it is. Has anyone here done that already?

EJ

[Eggy7496]

Found some more info over on mini2: http://www.mini2.com/forum/2nd-gen-engine-drivetrain-tuning/137445-r56-testing-209-hp.html

They say in there that someone in NMS had R56 dyno tested at 191 bhp... AMAZIN!

EJ

[Eggy7496]

Check this out: http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0604_badges_data_panel.pdf

Look at the performance figures of the R53 JCW (0-60 in 6.3)

Now look here,

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0607_pockets_dp.pdf

Look at the performance figures of the R56 (0-60 in 6.2)!! (Also worth noting that the R56 was the best on the fuel economy too in this comparison!)

Anyone got any figures to report on the R56 JCW?

EJ

[The Dogfather]

By jove I think he's got it ;)

Spot on Eggy, give you're sister's R56 a blast. Drive it like you stole, but just make sure you get her permission first. :D

[Craig]

So Eggy, let me know when you want to pick up this exhaust to give me room in my garage.. :eek: ;) :D You know you want over 200bhp.. :)

[Craig]

Ok i see what your saying chief, u reckon the R56 is as high as 190 bhp? My sister has an R56 just now, i say i have a wee shot and take it to the rolling road, im so intrigued now to what it is. Has anyone here done that already?

EJ

I think Ian King had his on a rolling road and got 191/192bhp with no mods on it at all running 17" Crown Spokes. :)

[drb5374]

You guys trying to tell me, you've never had a rolling road day?? :D


The standard system probably IS good enough for 300hp, but it's down to whether or not the cat's will become a problem at that level. It also comes down to the bore of the exhaust and how the backbox is built up.

Someone should defo do a before and after with a reputable exhaust. ;)

[Eggy7496]

Well if i go for the milltek then i will do a before and after and report back! Yes Sir!! :)

EJ

[drb5374]

:cool:


Be interested to know what difference there is in noise too.

[stoney]

i would like 2 see what my car (R53 JCWS) puts out with out the cat in as i have the gtt mainfold and decat pipe on it def feels faster but i think a noise can be missleading

[ELFMAN]

Turbo'd cars can GREATLY improve with an aftermarket system.

Catalysts drain so much power.....way more than an N/A car.

I wouldn't quite hope for 25hp from a S/S system on the S, but i doubt it's as low as 10hp.

Yes, but we're presumeably talking about a Cat-back SYSTEM ONLY here - no mention of replacement High Flow Cat/Manifold/Downpipe etc, so they're not changing the Catalyst in this instance. I reckon my Playmini SYSTEM was worth about 8-10bhp, and I picked up some more from the Manifold & Sports Cat. I reckon even standard exhaust systems on 'performance' cars are pretty efficient these days, so you're not going to get huge gains as you did in the 'Olden Days'. Anybody remember swapping their 'peashooter' classic Mini exhaust for an LCB manifold and RC 40 system? Nope? Thought not........

[drb5374]

Fraid not fella.

If you read the PDF at the start of the thread, it states the entire exhaust from turbo back has been replaced, including a high flow sports cat. Ok no manifold, but i wouldn't have expected much more power from changing that....mainly just better(if properly built) driveability.

[Big Gordy]

Anybody remember swapping their 'peashooter' classic Mini exhaust for an LCB manifold and RC 40 system? Nope? Thought not........

Over here...........the old guy way at the back waving.....I was that soldier:o also fitted twin 1-1/4" SU's at the same time..almost doubled the bhp of the standard set-up:eek: :cool:

[AndyP & Lenore]

Fraid not fella.

If you read the PDF at the start of the thread, it states the entire exhaust from turbo back has been replaced, including a high flow sports cat. Ok no manifold, but i wouldn't have expected much more power from changing that....mainly just better(if properly built) driveability.

The R56 Cooper S has a Manocat, so the catalyst is actually part of the Manifold. I don't think it's possible to replace the manifold. You can replace a small pipe that goes from the engine block to the top of the manocat (as fitted in the R56 JCW upgrade), but the manifold effectively is the cat as well. That's my understanding from looking at the car and speaking with a local exhaust technician.

A.;)

[drb5374]

Hairy muff Andy, but going by this.... http://www.millteksport.com/exhaust.products.cfm?variantid=221 it sounds like the cat is in the downpipe....like quite a few turbo'd cars, although yes there are with "extra" cats in the manifold/pre-turbo.


I'm sure we'd know for sure if you had a wee quick gander around that area?...just to be sure.

[ELFMAN]

Fraid not fella.

If you read the PDF at the start of the thread, it states the entire exhaust from turbo back has been replaced, including a high flow sports cat. Ok no manifold, but i wouldn't have expected much more power from changing that....mainly just better(if properly built) driveability.

Sorry, I didn't read the pdf, just the posts and nobody mentioned a Cat-Swap! I still think 25bhp is optimistic without a remap on the Turbo S. Check MOREGO'S power outputs WITH a Remap and with an exhaust. (I think it's 216bhp with both fitted, but I can't be sure). I don't think any of these claims are taking into acount that the R56 is producing more than 175 bhp to start with.

In all cases, if you take it that the standard car is putting out over its 'insurance-friendly' quote, say about 190 in real life, then if it's now making 202bhp with the Milltek, that's more like 12bhp. Still a very decent gain, and it'll sound great I'd expect, but not the gain advertised. Any of the recent road tests of the R56 in standard form against other 'hot hatches' seem to have it punching well above the '175' it's supposed to have, so it seems to be fitter than BMW are letting on. It IS VERY torquey though.........

My Playmini Manifold/Sports Cat certainly made/makes a difference to my old R53. It hangs on in there and pulls right to the redline, whereas before it didn't quite have that 'oomph' at the top end. I noticed this especially in its previous 'non-JCW' incarnation. The manifold on the R56 was a notorious 'bottleneck' as far as getting the gasses out, which is why I changed it. Maybe the R56 is different. I've just learned through experience not to believe big, easy exhaust or intake power gain claims!

Gordy - Ahhhhhhh, the memories. Remember your Werther's Originals on the next run!

[drb5374]

Agreed. :)

I think the gain from exhaust and remap, will be more-so the exhaust.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Disagreed.:)

I think the gain from the exhaust and the re-map will be more so the re-map.:p :D :D

A.:D

[drb5374]

Lol but it's already pretty much proven it's just the exhaust comparing the Milltek and MOREGO's figures.


....unless of course you get the boost upped with the remap, but there's nothing to support the tuners having done that.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Hairy muff Andy, but going by this.... http://www.millteksport.com/exhaust.products.cfm?variantid=221 it sounds like the cat is in the downpipe....like quite a few turbo'd cars, although yes there are with "extra" cats in the manifold/pre-turbo.


I'm sure we'd know for sure if you had a wee quick gander around that area?...just to be sure.

I'm pretty sure that's right mate. The cat is in the manifold downpipe.


.......I don't think any of these claims are taking into acount that the R56 is producing more than 175 bhp to start with.........

I think this is it in a nutshell. It's all down to marketing. For MINI they put a car out there which has a decent stated BHP figure that keeps the majority of their customers happy, but is also reasonable to insure. For the aftermarket tuners, they take a car which has "175bhp" and stick an exhaust on and dyno the car and find it's putting out over 200 bhp. They probably did dyno the car before the exhaust was fitted, but are choosing not to share that figure with us (the public) because it actually dyno'd (unmodified) at 190 bhp - ish. To tell us their exhaust gives the car an extra 24 bhp is a far better phrase than saying it gives the car an extra 10bhp. It's a fine line between marketing and lying. All IMHO.:D

A.:D