Rottweilers - time for a ban. [Archive]

monkimagic

29th December 2007, 08:27 PM

How very sad for this family but I disagree about the dog, Dogs like this are gaurd dogs and as a working dog have a role in society but not as pets, this Dog was innocent, it was even in the yard and not in the house. the blame is with the imbociles who own these dogs as pets, silly teenaged mum, left her 1 year old child with a 16 year old girl, who inturn is up stairs most likely more interested in Bebo than whats happening down stairs, this leads to a 7 year old in charge who makes a fatal mistake.:confused:

Placing a breeding ban on People who take these dogs on as pets, that is surely a better answer for society as it will result in this breed of Imbocile filtering out.;)

Craig

29th December 2007, 08:28 PM

well, my experience of Rottweilers is different from others probably.

The dog section at work have one as a General Purpose dog (instead of an Alsatian). It is amazing. Huge presence when on duty and a big deterent to anyone wanting to cause bother. If I saw a big slavering Rottweiler coming out the back of a police van and the cop said, "stop or I'll send the dog", I doubt I could stop quicker..!! ;)

I suppose it is all down to training. This dog is sooooo well trained, it even goes to the toilet on que. :D

My view is it is all down to the people who have them and how much time and effort they put in to training them and stimulating them.

KenL

29th December 2007, 08:28 PM

Yet another tragic story :(

I don't blaim the dogs TBH, it is often the people in charge of them who are irresponsible :(

It is probably worthwhile, though, having these animals neutered, so that they will be harder to come by in future.

It may also be time to have some sort of authority, who vet dog owners!

Scottie

29th December 2007, 08:38 PM

This story is tragic and was avoidable - BBC news link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/7163696.stm)

Isn't it time these dogs were outlawed. Not suggesting a mass cull, but simply a ban on any future breeding's will result in the breed filtering out.

Besides, it's been a while since the site's last heated discussion.;)

A.

I would say the answer is no on banning "this type of dog"

IMHO all dogs including mine the Scottie, the Westie and indeed my beardie dogs could kill a 1 year old child.

It is the owners that need to be shot or banned.;) Seriously though this is where the problem is.

I couldn't put my hand on my heart and say for 100% sure that my dogs wouldn't attack a young child I don't think they would but I couldn't be certain end of.

******************

The thing is you bring a dog into your house and before long they become a member of the family and more often than not get treated as such but one must never forget they are a dog with instincts bred into them.

When ever my dogs are around any young children they are put in a room away from them, just as much for my dogs sake than the childs I don't want any harm to come to either.

I walk my dogs every day at Plean and you meet the Rot's, Bull Mastiff etc etc, now Archie the Scottie he runs up to every dog in the park to say hello. Just the other day there was a Rot in the park you could see the owner was in control of the dog and kept him calm as Archie lifted up his skirts and ran his wee legs off to meet up with him but he could sense with the Rot not to get to close as he put his brakes on and stood back and wouldn't go nose to nose, unfortunately children don't have the sense, no way should children be left alone with any dog.

The Dogfather

29th December 2007, 09:32 PM

There are some problem dog breeds that can have dangerous temperaments, Pit Bulls, Japenese Fighting dogs etc. however, I wouldn't have put Rottwielers on that list though.

Perhaps special licences for certain breeds of dogs, so that people have to demonstrate an understanding of what the potential risks are of owning powerful dogs. Personally I wouldn't leave a young child with any dog, including my own, its just not worth the risk.

MINI William

29th December 2007, 10:06 PM

I dont blame the dogs i blame the owners.if the dogs are trained and treated with respect these types of things would stop.

Bazthemod

29th December 2007, 10:15 PM

The dog is innocent... it is how the owners train the dog.

Our last dog was a german shepard... everyone was **** scared of him because of his size but he was the biggest sook ever. The only time he ever showed aggression was when a druggie knocked on our door and forced his way into the house. Duke obviously sensed danger and attacked.

This is a subject im following closely having just recently aquired a puppy, when Cooper is on his own with me i keep him as calm as possible but visitors continually make him hyper by playing hand games with him. This results in him getting aggressive and biting thier hands, to which they reply ouch hes biting!

Hello!!! if you didnt make your hand out to be toys he wouldnt bite you!

Im confident i can kurb this as he gets older because its down to the owner to sculpt the dogs personality.

Craig

29th December 2007, 10:53 PM

The dog is innocent... it is how the owners train the dog.

Im confident i can kurb this as he gets older because its down to the owner to sculpt the dogs personality.

Well said Baz, you have it in a nutshell.. :cool:

sedgie

29th December 2007, 11:43 PM

I'm sorry but that is not the dog i would buy as a "family" dog!
Yes i have a dog...a black lab, he is over friendly!:p he will jump on you when you come in house!, but i do tell peeps knee him in chest n ignore..he is not alpha male in this house!
It is all down to training...but a rottie/guard dog it is inbread into them!:(

That is my opinion!:) ;)

stoney

29th December 2007, 11:48 PM

well as for rots christines uncle breads them and has had no prob with children or any other kind

as said by others on this thred it is down 2 the person that owns the dog not the dog

vintageb3

30th December 2007, 01:45 AM

I'm torn on this one. I love dogs...but I'm not fond of Rottweilers if I'm totally honest.

I did hear about a study done on this breed that suggested the high pitched screaming of infants and kids triggered something in this breed and drove them crazy. This was given as the reason for most of these attacks.

It sounded far fetched to me at the time...but after hearing yet another sad story of a kid getting killed...I wonder if there is any truth in it.

If there is truth in it...this would suggest that no amount of training could stop this from happening.

Personally...I can't see the need for this dog as a family pet. It is a working dog...and I see no problem with this breed being used by the Police and for guard work.

Whether the study was right or wrong I still think that its a huge risk leaving ANY dog with a small child or infant.

I certainly wouldn't introduce that breed into my house.

I did quite a bit or work on a house recently. We have worked for this family for years. They had two Collies...and they didn't even bark at us when we walked up to the gate. They barked everyone else though. They lay by our feet whilst we worked...really well natured pups.

Recently, we were back and forth over many weeks doing more work and they had taken in a third Collie. We couldn't get in the gate anytime we arrived. It bit me 5 times...and my Dad six times. My Dad and I both love dogs...so we wanted to try and help with the problem.

However, my Dad got a bad bite from the dog so I asked for the dog to be muzzled (which I generally don't believe in) whilst we working there...and the dog still kept trying to bite us. The family told us that they knew he was a "nipper" but he had calmed down since it had arrived with them. They said the only people the dog was biting was us. Not only did the dog bite...it kept coming at you after it had bitten.

Eventually...the dog calmed down...and for the last week we were there...the muzzle was removed and it roamed about and came up for a pat now and then. We thought all was well.

We left the job for a week...and upon our return...the dog bit both my Dad and I.

My Dad and I discussed the dog over our break one day and we reckoned the dog wasn't wired correctly and eventually it would bite a kid....and that would be the end of the dog.

We were back there before the holiday break...and after an hour or so I remembered about the third Collie and asked where it was?

It had indeed gone for a vistor...a kid in fact...so after 6 months with the family...they decided to put the dog down.

Can't say I agree with the destruction of any animal unless in kindness...but they said they couldn't find a home for the dog.

mark

monkimagic

30th December 2007, 02:14 AM

they remind me of the Omen, but they are so handsome. If I needed a gaurd dog I would have one, but I dont so I dont have one....

illegalhunter

30th December 2007, 09:06 AM

Knee jerk polotics that always works dont it.

Gismo

30th December 2007, 09:17 AM

I don't and have never owned a dog, but, i can see how folks get attached to dogs in general, through lonlieness etc.
But, i have to agree that this type of dog should not be considered a pet.

I would certainly never consider any type of dog as a pet whilst bringing up kids. The logic applies, if you aint got one then no harm can be done.

Mark, sorry mate, i would never have carried out any work at anyones house where a known nipper was allowed to practice it's art.
Not saying the dog should have been put down, but, no way you should endure those injuries

vintageb3

30th December 2007, 09:49 AM

Well...I agree...that's why i asked for the dog to be muzzled. We were there to get on and do a job...not be dog whisperers. But we just hated the idea of the dog being put down for something that could have been "trained" out of the dog. Everyone wanted to give the dog a chance. We were talking bites here...the dog wasn't mauling us.

But when it attacked a kid...well that was a different story.

mark

The Dogfather

30th December 2007, 10:59 AM

It depends on why the dog bites, if a dog bites because the child is hitting it with a stick then its a different issue from a dog challenging for pack position. Its not just the dog that needs training its the child as well.

vintageb3

31st December 2007, 12:58 AM

Of course VB. This Collie attacked for no reason whatsoever. Didn't even need to be looking at it. or any noise going on.

mark

V11kae

31st December 2007, 11:39 AM

First of all I have had dogs around since before I can remember and couldnt imagine being without one. I do believe you get bad owners not bad pets but the same goes for kids, good parents good kids! like everything in life its discipline and training.

Also no one should ever get a dog through loneliness, get a partner! pets are pets and personally I would never treat a boyfriend/partner like a pet, there is a difference. Hence why so many pets are emotional nowadays they get treated like people therefore act in that manner at times.

I have 3 dogs who all live outside in heated kennels, where large dogs belong. and I personally think they are spoiled getting heaters but I do love them, If you start letting them lay on the couch they forget who the boss is. Also its whats pets are used to, people forget they are animals! Might I had that my dogs are very happy bouncy sorts but they dont jump on people like most of their kind as they were trained not to. A bit of training can go a long way in the long run.

I should add here that I know you get the toy group of dog who werent designed for indoors, and should be treated according to their breed but their is a line that can get crossed betwen pet and baby. I have come across some lovely little pooches in my time but the ones who are cradled in their owners arms like a baby that snap through jelousy when you get close to their owner! hmmm

:) As for people, I'm into world peace and all that but has anyone noticed the difference in behaviour since they stopped the belt? :D

Bring back good old discipline! :eek:

p.s this is only my opinion, everyones beliefs are different, mine are through experience.

Sheilz

31st December 2007, 12:39 PM

We've got a staffie who had two previous owners. She's a good natured dog who loves people and being with them, I think this is a characteristic of the breed but when she arrived with us she thought she could take over lying on the sofa and beds and generally be leader of the pack. The family thought I was being hard on her but I insist on being 'alpha (fe)male' in my house so the dog has been ejected from all beds and chairs. Cassie's a real sturdy dog, not very tall but built like a tank and has had to be trained out of thinking she's a lap dog. While there's something comical and ludicrous on this muckle lump wanting to sit on our knees I think this is also a way of her dominating us so woe betide anyone in the house who looks as if they're going to go soft on her - dogs belong on the floor or in their baskets. Nik's also had to be trained to not playfight with the dog having introduced the concept of human hand as toy. Bad news with any dog but powerful ones like Cassie that's just plain stupid. Have to say the dog has been easier to train than Nik. Cassie's been with us for two years now and still not getting her out of the habit of jumping up on people. Think I'll try the knee in the chest with her though again I'll need to train Nik too. Have never seen any manuals on how to train daft loons on how to behave with dogs.

If I'd gone out to chose a dog as a family pet (Cassie kind of landed on us) I'd have chosen a lab or retriever though I have to say that despite the bad press staffies get at the lower end of the powerful dog scale I might be tempted to have another. The KC refers to them as the Nanny Dog and one of only two breeds of dog that are reliable with children and this is born out with Cassie who is unbelievably patient and protective of the family though I suspect she'd be more likely to lick someone to death.

Biting and nipping can be a problem irrespective of the breed. This was brought home to me by a delivery man to the door, who told me it was ok to let Cassie out to say hello as he'd met her before and found her to be just a muckle friendly mutt with a waggie tail while my neigbour's highly trained Sheltie who has been to dog school since being a pup had bitten him.

While any dog has the ability to inflict awful injuries on kids I do believe that certain breeds should not be kept as pets and Rots are definitely one of them. They are beautiful dogs but why take the risk? Its really sad that it takes another tragedy for people to sit up and take notice. I think they should be banned since that would be easier to police than ensuring responsible dog ownership.

I prefer cats!

Scottie

31st December 2007, 01:35 PM

Also no one should ever get a dog through loneliness, get a partner!

Well I don't agree with you on that one:) . Try asking my mother what having dogs meant to her when my father passed away 9 years ago.

She often says if it were not for her dogs. The house would be a lonely place at times. While she has her mates and charity work etc etc @ 76 she is up and out every day walking her dogs keeping her fit etc etc.:) her dogs are a huge part of her life.

sedgie

31st December 2007, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by V11kae http://newmini.thinkbiggar.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://newmini.thinkbiggar.net/forums/showthread.php?p=156598#post156598)

Also no one should ever get a dog through loneliness, get a partner!

Well i agree with scottiecoop...my dog is great company!...and i do have a husband:p ;) , He works away alot so my dog is great company:D

The Dogfather

31st December 2007, 07:40 PM

AndyP & Lenore

31st December 2007, 09:15 PM

I understand the arguments some are putting forward that it would be unfair to ban a breed just because some owners act irresponsibly. But don't you think it's impractical to force the owners to "train the dog". You're then replying on the good sense of owners to follow a "code" on how to train their dogs not to maul people. It would never work.

I'm not convinced the guard dog argument stands either. If I'm faced with a cop threatening to send in 2 growling, drooling, fang-showing Rottweilers, or 2 growling drooling fang-showing German Shepherds, I'm not gonna argue with either of them to be honest. When did you last hear of a German Shepherd mauling a 1 year old to death?

I agree in the case highlighted in my first post the family have to take full responsibility for the dogs actions. I agree the dog is an animal and has primeval instincts and sometimes they kick in, to tragic consequences in this case. But is that not just the point..... These are primeval instincts. You can't train them out of them. All the training in the world would not have saved that little boy if that dog felt cornered.

Unfortunately, I speak from experience. I was bitten by one of these Rottweilers about 12 years ago. It was nothing nasty, about 10 stitches and my arm was sewn up, but it was completely unprovoked and the owner said "most out of character" for the dog. Suddenly my arm felt much better hearing that. But at the end of the day, I got off very lucky compared to that wee boy. I'm left with a small scar on one arm, that wee lad has lost his life.

I just think these dogs don't have a place in a civilised society.:(

But I fully accept I have no love for Rottweilers, so my approach here certainly isn't balanced. Rather embarrassingly, I still have the occasional nightmare (in the literal sense), and I will never, ever, ever walk past a Rottweiler if I can possibly avoid it. It would be fair to say that one little bite 12 years ago has left me with an almost indescribable fear and hatred of these dogs.

A.

AndyP & Lenore

31st December 2007, 09:30 PM

We've got a staffie who had two previous owners. .......... The KC refers to them as the Nanny Dog and one of only two breeds of dog that are reliable with children and this is born out with Cassie who is unbelievably patient and protective of the family though I suspect she'd be more likely to lick someone to death.

Sheilz, "Staffie?" As in: Staffordshire Bull Terrier? Can you confirm that's the breed you're talking about. Also which is the other breed the KC say are reliable with children?

I think they should be banned since that would be easier to police than ensuring responsible dog ownership.

Fully agree with that.

I prefer cats!

Can't say I agree with that. If my dog or our two cats read that I agreed with you, the fur would fly.;)

A.:D

Sheilz

1st January 2008, 10:56 PM

Cassie's a staffordshire bull terrier. I dont know what the other breed of dog is that they recommend as being safe with children. I only know about the staffie since I did a bit of research on the breed when Cassie came to stay with us. Dont know about elsewhere, but in Aberdeen the staffie is often favoured by neds and dealers and I really wanted to know what it was we were taking on since my view of the dog was coloured by the people I mostly saw with staffies. I think we've got a pretty good dog but I'm mindful that although she's had training with her first owner she was allowed to be alpha (fe)male with the second. I'm really strict with her but have to be otherwise she'd just take over the house. When she came she hated cats, still does but knows that Sophie (very dainty siamese) is part of the family and the two of them tolerate each other very well though sometimes Sophie gives Cassie a whack on the a*se when she's walking past her, or will pounce on her tail when there's no robins about to hunt.
I think there's some truth in being able to read a dog by its eyes. Generally Cassie has a soft soppy look in her face but when the cat's pouncing about in playful mode you can see the look on the dogs face that just lets you know what she'd really like to do to her! I think the first owner had been one of those buffoons that encouraged her to chase cats which doesn't get tolerated in a household of cat lovers. Not long after we got Cassie she caught a neighbours cat. It was so lucky because Nik was able to get to the dog before she started to shake it and the cat apart from being shell shocked escaped unhurt. I think the thing with Cassie and a lot of these kind of breeds is being able to exert enough control over them to stop them in their tracks. I think there's a very brief time lapse in which that can be achieved otherwise the dog just keeps going. I just know though that I'd feel mighty sorry for anyone who appeared aggressive to any of the family in front of the dog. When someone she doesnt know comes around she prances about friendly and welcoming but you can tell by her expression that she's making sure that person isnt going to hurt anyone, especially her beloved Nik!

V11kae

2nd January 2008, 12:03 AM

Apologies for not explaining myself properly.

I once had a dog as a companion when my mum and dad split when i was in my teens which helped me through a very difficult time. I just dont agree with pets bought through lonilesness to replace someone. I suppose sometimes a pet isnt just bought through loneliness and treated like a person either though. its down to the persons personality.

As for training, military style isnt necessary for a dog. but basic manners, i.e not to jump on folk, eat off plates etc wouldnt go a miss.

Again this is only my opinion, everyones situations and expieriences are different. My opinion is reflected within my household and doesnt mean I would judge others because of it.

stoney

2nd January 2008, 01:55 PM

you all say about dogs and bites i have been biten by a rotty but did not put me off the bread i was on his ground and a strange face the dog has every right 2 defened its home and owners if it was some one that brock in 2 your house and your dog attacked you would give it a big pat on the head and say well done boy/girl

now i know of a jack russell fist time i went in 2 the house i got told dont pet the dog she will bite ok i said i walked round the back and siad dog jumps up for a pet

now i know this dog well now and she jumps up me every time i go in 2 the house but there are peplole that she dose not like at all and will go for them as soon as they go neer her

i think the way you act around a animal will determin how the animail is with you most of the time

now there is a 2 year old running round the child gets told 2 stay away from the dog as she my bite but the other day the child was found asleep next 2 the dog at the botom of the bed

AndyP & Lenore

2nd January 2008, 03:15 PM

stoney

2nd January 2008, 03:18 PM

I know what you mean Stone. In my own circumstances, it was at a dog show. I was coming out of a tent, the dog (with handler) was going into the tent. We met in the middle and the dog just lunged. I didn't even see it coming TBH.

As for the emotional side of it, I guess I'm just a big girls blouse.:p

A.:D

well you said it ;) :p

i under stand why pepole can be afrid of a dog

i have been around dogs since the day i was born so prob one of the reasons i can get on so well with animals they just seem 2 like me :D

The Dogfather

2nd January 2008, 03:22 PM

i have been around dogs since the day i was born so prob one of the reasons i can get on so well with animals they just seem 2 like me :D

Either that or you smell of bacon?

AndyP & Lenore

2nd January 2008, 03:23 PM

well you said it ;) :p

i under stand why pepole can be afrid of a dog

i have been around dogs since the day i was born so prob one of the reasons i can get on so well with animals they just seem 2 like me :D

Strange thing is, so have I. My family has always had a dog, and I've had a dog since before Lenore and I got hitched. But to be honest, we've only ever had big softies. Lenore's mum used to breed Samoyeds, so we've had two samoyeds for 14 years now. Sadly lost one in October 2005, but we still have one, and I have to say, I've never even heard him growl.

A.:D

The Dogfather

2nd January 2008, 03:27 PM

Strange thing is, so have I. My family has always had a dog, and I've had a dog since before Lenore and I got hitched. But to be honest, we've only ever had big softies. Lenore's mum used to breed Samoyeds, so we've had two samoyeds for 14 years now. Sadly lost one in October 2005, but we still have one, and I have to say, I've never even heard him growl.

A.:D

Samoyeds, top dog they're good with children I believe. I've heard Airedale Terriers are as well

Smurf

2nd January 2008, 04:52 PM

Interesting thread...

I'm a cat person, and I am most definitely owned by my cat, not the other way round.

I like dogs too, and have only known one Rotty, called Rocky, who used to appear with his owners at Hill Climb and Sprint events in Ayrshire. He was HUGE and the biggest softest dog I've ever met. However, I still treated him with respect. I've known two German Shepherds, both owned by the same family. The first one was a big softie, the second one was put down after mauling next doors cat to death...

You never can tell with dogs, no matter what breed they are. There are good uns and bad uns in all breeds I think, just like humans.

Scottie

2nd January 2008, 05:21 PM

my wee Scottie is a cute wee bugger (well I think so);)
time to rake out a old photo.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/scottiecoop/teeth004.jpg

but I wouldn't like these to get snapped on to my arm. Bred to hunt badgers he has a strong neck and tail, the tail well so the owners could pull the dog out of the badger sets and rabbit holes. The teeth well to kill.

Andy I reckon I wouldn't be to keen of rot's after you experience. I know that if any dog I don't like to look including German Shepherds I wouldn't go near them.

AndyP & Lenore

2nd January 2008, 05:27 PM

Andy I reckon I wouldn't be to keen of rot's after you experience. I know that if any dog I don't like to look including German Shepherds I wouldn't go near them.

It's not just Rots too. Just about any black dog I'll step away from and even cross the street to avoid.

However, in the past few years, we've had a couple of alarm call outs to the cinema. Each time the police bring in the dog unit to do a sweep of the building. Absolutely shat myself one time, when the cop brought the German Shepherd in the front doors and it ran straight up to me and stopped in front of me. The copper gave a command and it just completely lost interest in me, and started running through the building looking for the "burglar". Straight home and change of underwear that time, let me tell ya.:o :o

But it proves one thing, that was one seriously well trained dog.

A.:D