Fog Lights

[JCWmini]

Here is a nice no [NON] contentious issue to get us talking.

After discussing the relative merits of lake[, OR LACK] of [,] regarding the use of FRONT fog lights in another thread I have spent a disproportionate amount of time looking at cars with their fog lights on when its not foggy. This bear [BEARS] out what I have thought over the past 20 years of driving. And also the fact the fogs are aimed about 5 feet in front of the car low donw [DOWN] and cannot possibly cause glare to other road users.

Despite the assurance from some members that it’s signally [SINGULARLY] the most heinous crime known to man kind [MANKIND] and any driver who has the audacity to do this should be publicly flogged, I have come to the conclusion that fog lights do NOT cause any significant glare issue. Indeed poorly adjusted headlamps and main beam are significantly more dangerous, by a factor of about 1000 as a guess.

So I would like to see if anyone can come up with any proper un bias [UN-BIASED]research regarding this to show that fogs are really so dangerous.

Or is it a case of, I [A] general dislike for any diver under the age of 25 how [WHO] has the audacity to use the same road as some of our more experienced members, perhaps divers [DRIVES] a sightly cheaper older car which some Halfords additions.


:) (all done in the best possible taste)

[FergusM]

Is the fact that it is against the law not enough ??

[Sweeney]

Can i sit infront of you in the dark and put my rear fog on and tell me if you can see the road ahead? 9/10 its almost impossible without backing off a fair bit... As for fronts, they do cause a big distraction but the rears worse

[Craig]

it states in the law not to have fog lights on when it's not foggy. It's an offence which you will be charged for. Nuff said Case Closed. :rolleyes: :)

It's like having a discussion about speeding, it's against the law, end of. :D

Are you sure you don't want to talk about taking heroine not being bad for you? or that beating up your partner is acceptable? At the end of the day, it's against the law, you can debate it all you want. It ain't going to change the outcome.

[Sweeney]

I'd be surprised to find someone whos actually lived by the book all their life, we all have broken laws and will continue to do so on a (most likely) daily/weekly basis. Regardless of who you are and what you do ;)

[Craig]

I'd be surprised to find someone whos actually lived by the book all their life, we all have broken laws and will continue to do so on a (most likely) daily/weekly basis. Regardless of who you are and what you do ;)


your probably right Sweeney, but not all of us are on a public forum encouraging other people that doing something illegal is alright... :eek: :rolleyes: :p

[Sweeney]

I dont see any encouragement but i do see a point raised that i disagree with, hence my reply :p

Defects with cars are generally all a risk, some more than others yes but thats the reason there is regulations rules and laws to abide and uphold; Such is life.

[Craig]

suppose we are all unique, thereby having different views of what is right and wrong... ;) It is everyones right to choose to break the law or not. :cool:

[Sweeney]

I know its wrong and believe me ive had so many road rage moments with the dark mornings and nights lately, people sitting right up your arse, no lights at all, fog lights etc. I could rant and rant about it... I certainly don't agree that "theres little distraction" with fog lights being on to other drivers which we can all agree on im sure

[JCWmini]

Can i sit infront of you in the dark and put my rear fog on and tell me if you can see the road ahead? 9/10 its almost impossible without backing off a fair bit... As for fronts, they do cause a big distraction but the rears worse

Your corect with the rears and i have edited my post as i am only talking about front fogs.

[KenL]

Sorry, you are wrong :rolleyes:

I see many cars who have fogs lights that are very bright and an annoyance (at best) to me, at least!

Renaults for a start seem to have very bright fogs that seem brighter than their headlights.

They are illegal and anyone who puts them them on to "look cool" is a tool ;)

[JCWmini]

it states in the law not to have fog lights on when it's not foggy. It's an offence which you will be charged for. Nuff said Case Closed. :rolleyes: :)

It's like having a discussion about speeding, it's against the law, end of. :D

Are you sure you don't want to talk about taking heroine not being bad for you? or that beating up your partner is acceptable? At the end of the day, it's against the law, you can debate it all you want. It ain't going to change the outcome.

As stated i would like some proof that they do cause glare. I have yet to say this in any post so far. :D

Keep trying.

[sedgie]

Ach i hae more tae bother aboot than fog lights....if they piss me off....they get all my lights in face!:D

[The Dogfather]

First of all what is your definition of glare? Mine would be any unnecessary light being directed towards me whilst I'm driving.

I take it that the opinion 'that they don't cause glare' is just your own, which to my mind hardly makes it contentious as you do seem to have taken up the position of the lone idiot. Its not so much an argument more just a collection of people telling you you're a fcukwit.

By the way whilst coming to your conclusion did you take in to account the effect on drivers of different vehicles such as motorbikes and roadsters which have a different viewing position? You are quite right in the point you made that fogs point down, which is why they are useless as extra driving lights, but did you take into account that fogs reflect off wet roads into the eyes of on coming traffic?

Did you also consider this effect on unlit roads and/or on the driver who may have been driving for an extended period?

Now if you would really like proof how about a little game. Thats if you are willing to stick your neck out.

I'm pretty good with electrics and I happen to have an old light meter at my parents. We should wire a sensitive part of your anatomy up to a car battery via a switch. Then by comparing the light meter reading between when a car switches its fogs on and off we can test your no glare theory, for every time the reading is higher with fogs on you get a shock. I think there would be a few people on here who'd be willing to help out with their cars.

What do you reckon willing to put your 'money' were your mouth is?

[Burple]

Hey VB, did you ever work for a certain Mr Himmler? ;):p:p:D

[The Dogfather]

Hey VB, did you ever work for a certain Mr Himmler? ;):p:p:D

How old do you think I am? :mad: :mad: ;) :D

[JCWmini]

How old do you think I am? :mad: :mad: ;) :D

About 12 judging by your post.

[Craig]

As stated i would like some proof that they do cause glare. I have yet to say this in any post so far. :D

Keep trying.


i couldn't give a sh$t if you want proof - you are breaking the law and if you think that is OK and are trying to challenge it, then in my book, yer a muppet. :eek: :(

Just my opinion mind, bearing in mind I have to deal with both sides of the law on a daily basis...:rolleyes: ;)

[The Dogfather]

About 12 judging by your post.

What's up with it?

[The Dogfather]

i couldn't give a sh$t if you want proof - you are breaking the law and if you think that is OK and are trying to challenge it, then in my book, yer a muppet.

Which one? I kind of see him as beaker, ready to experiment on :evil grin:

[sedgie]

Hey VB, did you ever work for a certain Mr Himmler? ;):p:p:D


LOL...iI thought a cross between "Himmler/Mengele";) :rolleyes: :D :D



Wir stoppen Nebellichter! Sie stören uns! :D :D

[Burple]

LOL...iI thought a cross between "Himmler/Mengele" :D :D



Wir stoppen Nebellichter! Sie stören uns! :D :D

Ha ha ha ha ha :D:D:D

wir töten Ihre Testikel durch Stromschlag! ;):D
(I think..:o)

[The Dogfather]

Ha ha ha ha ha :D:D:D

wir töten Ihre Testikel durch Stromschlag! ;):D
(I think..:o)

Now, I didn't mention any particular part of his anatomy, however

wir haben Weisen des Bildens Sie des Wegs lustig und Gespräch in einer hohen geworfenen Stimme

[AndyP & Lenore]

Once again, it seems a timely reminder of one of your own posts is in order.

Of course, no one would argue you're not entitled to your opinion, but at least try and be consistent.

This post was in the Tints thread. (http://www.newminiscotland.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=13097)

Being a motorcyclist im glad the police are clamping down on this, car drivers need all the help they can get when it comes to seeing a bike.

Why would anyone want to make their car look like a pimp mobile anyway:confused:

Most of these chavs who have tints should have their cars taken off them and crushed.

Time for you to practice what you preach sunshine.:rolleyes:

A.:rolleyes:

[JCWmini]

Once again, it seems a timely reminder of one of your own posts is in order.

Of course, no one would argue you're not entitled to your opinion, but at least try and be consistent.

This post was in the Tints thread. (http://www.newminiscotland.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=13097)


Time for you to practice what you preach sunshine.:rolleyes:

A.:rolleyes:

Thats a bit sad, no seriously.

I must have missed the bit about that post where fog lights are discussed.

Since you are the officual NMS post searcher you could point it out to me. :D

[AndyP & Lenore]

Thats a bit sad, no seriously.

I must have missed the bit about that post where fog lights are discussed.

Since you are the officual NMS post searcher you could point it out to me. :D

I don't understand how you don't see that your opinions are inconsistent.:confused:

In one thread (the Tints thread) you are saying that "car drivers need all the help they can get when it comes to seeing a bike" and go on to say that you're "glad the police are clamping down in the illegal behaviour". Then in another thread (this thread) you are advocating that it is perfectly acceptable to break a law which gives rise to the very problem you were annoyed about being broken in another thread.

A.;)

[Gismo]

I have no scientific proof, but, i can assure you that in the few times i've driven my classic mini, anyone driving with FRONT FOGS on has hindered my vision, more so in the wet when the glare from the lights has "bounced" up into my rear view mirror.

Given the fact that you are a biker and that you obviously detest cages, i find it hard to unerstand you're thinking.
It's more a case of do what i say and not what i do.

When out and about on my bike in the dark it's very annoying when approaching drivers with FRONT FOGS on.

At the end of the day, it's illegal to use either FRONT or REAR Fogs unless the conditions dictate it, so, if you are openly admitting that you use them, then just get yourself along to the local station and own up to it.
Let the boys in blue try to educate you

[JCWmini]

Im stunned by the lack of ability with some of the members to

a. Read a post withou adding words that dont exist.

b. Comprehend the difference between not liking tints on a car because the reduce visibility for a car driver and me opinion that fogs are not the big danger that everyone suggests.

c. The lake of ability for members to discuss something without going getting their knickers in a twist.

B.S you may detest cages (or car drivers to those non bikers) but i do not, primarily because i own 2 cars as well as my bike.

Fair point with the origional mini due to it being lower to the ground. On my bike i am higher and am definatly not distracted by fogs.


Just to make it clear for the terminally stupid on this forum.

I HAVE NEVER EVEN SWITCHED THE FOGS OF MY MINI ON LET ALONE USE THEM.

You lot need to take a deep breath. Its like talking to a bunch of 12 year olds. (With a few exeptions)

[The Dogfather]

So your making it clear to yourself then?

Everyone's posts on this thread seem to be fairly balanced, some pointing out the duplicity of your opinions re: tints and fogs. Some, myself included have grown tired of this subject as despite the overwhelming weight of opinion you still fail to realise you're talking to a brick wall.

Within this thread you and only you think that fogs don't dazzle. Why is that?

So far you labeled seasoned posters to this forum as 12 year olds and terminally stupid? Why? Because they have a different opinion to you? Sounds like you're the child having a strop. You have chosen to ignore the points other people have made in this thread.

I have the equivalent of 30 years driving experience (by mileage), how experienced driver are you? I dare say BS and other have a lot of experience as well.

Now, in my opinion people who drive with fog lights on, when the conditions do not merit them, are selfish idiots. Anyone who condones this behaviour is also an idiot, I couldn't care less which category you come under.

The simple fact is all headlights cause glare to other traffic, to add to this with foglights just because people think its cool is both ridiculous and conveniently illegal.

Personally I would love to see the back of your stupid crusade. My advice to you is when the people around you are talking chinese it's time to stop digging

[Burple]

Now, I didn't mention any particular part of his anatomy, however

wir haben Weisen des Bildens Sie des Wegs lustig und Gespräch in einer hohen geworfenen Stimme

:D:D:D:D



(Babelfish is great! ;);):D)

[Burple]

Now, in my opinion people who drive with fog lights on, when the conditions do not merit them, are selfish idiots. Anyone who condones this behaviour is also an idiot, I couldn't care less which category you come under.

This.

If you drive about with fog lights on and it's not foggy, it's just selfish, arrogant and inconsiderate to everyone else on the road.

so there. :p

[Gismo]

B.S you may detest cages (or car drivers to those non bikers) but i do not, primarily because i own 2 cars as well as my bikeNope, i own 3 cars and 2 bikes :eek:


Fair point with the origional mini due to it being lower to the ground. On my bike i am higher and am definatly not distracted by fogsWe agree on the classic mini :)
As for being higher up on a bike, yep, that's the case, but i'm still dazzled by oncoming cagers with fog lights on :(


Just to make it clear for the terminally stupid on this forum.

I HAVE NEVER EVEN SWITCHED THE FOGS OF MY MINI ON LET ALONE USE THEMPersonal insults are not well received :(

[The Dogfather]

:D:D:D:D



(Babelfish is great! ;);):D)



When you translate something and translate it back, it always comes back with something amusing.

Mine started as, We have ways of making you walk funny and talk in a high pitched voice.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Im stunned by the lack of ability with some of the members to

b. Comprehend the difference between not liking tints on a car because the reduce visibility for a car driver and me opinion that fogs are not the big danger that everyone suggests.



I'm stunned by your lack of ability to recognise the two issues have the same nett result.





Just to make it clear for the terminally stupid on this forum.



Sheesh! Pot. Kettle. Black.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


A.;)

[GAJ]

First post corrected, for the terminally stupid.:rolleyes:

[The Dogfather]

First post corrected, for the terminally stupid.:rolleyes:

Cruel, but funny. :D

[Scottie]

Jeez how did I miss this post.

In general TBH I don't get blinded by oncoming vehicles that have their FRONT fog lights on. Maybe as I am in a 4x4 most of the time I am sitting high enough for them not to bother me. I would however say that depending on what angle the car is approaching you i.e if they are coming up a slight hill then yes front fogs could dazzle.

However I do more often than not get blinded with the headlights from on coming vehicles not so much in my rear view as I have the anti dazzle mirrors. I would say misaligned headlights are more of an issue IMHO than front fogs.

I do however hate REAR fog lights being on and find that they do dazzle mainly when raining or when the roads are wet.

I understand that the use of fog lights is illegal unless it is actually foggy

but I wonder if it is against the law to use the REAR Fog Lights. when it is not foggy.

The reason I ask this is this. On the BMW range of motors you have the Brake Force thingy system. What this does is when you brake lightly it only brings on the rear brakes light bulbs BUT when you brake hard and fast it not only brings on the rear brake lights but also the rear fog lights. Now I know this may only be a brief "fog lights on thing" but the fact remains that they do come on. BMW who we all know test and re test who make sure everything about their cars is legal so there must be a legal loophole in the law (re rear fog lights) for them to be able to use this system as they just wouldn't get away with it. Pick up any brochure for the BMW range and it is there in black and white about their system and how it works and clearly states that the rear fogs lights come on. So if it illegal to use rear fogs unless it's foggy how do they get away with it.

[Gismo]

Fi, i'm sure you'll find that the rear fog light is the same brightness as a standard brake light

[Scottie]

Fi, i'm sure you'll find that the rear fog light is the same brightness as a standard brake light

So it's not illegal to use them when its not foggy.???

[Gismo]

So it's not illegal to use them when its not foggy.???
I would say the same rule applies to the rears as the fronts, but don't know for sure, the fact they come on when braking hard will not be any worse than the standard brake lights coming on

[Burple]

When you translate something and translate it back, it always comes back with something amusing.

Mine started as, We have ways of making you walk funny and talk in a high pitched voice.


heh heh.. if you put the German back in, you get...
"we have ways of forming you the way merrily and discussion in a high thrown voice" :D:D:D:D:D:D

[Burple]

As stated i would like some proof that they do cause glare. I have yet to say this in any post so far. :D

Keep trying.

from your first post-
"And also the fact the fogs are aimed about 5 feet in front of the car low donw [DOWN] and cannot possibly cause glare to other road users."

Ok... Tune the brain cells into 'listen' mode...
Fog lights as you say are aimed DOWNWARDS from the front of the car, at an angle from the horizontal / vertical, right? When the light beams hit the road surface, they are at the same angle from the horizontal / vertical, yes? (basic physics). So when a beam of light hits a surface, in this case let's imagine a wet road (it'll still happen to a lesser degree on dry roads), the beam of light will be reflected (to a certain degree due to imperfections in the surface, road camber and general curvature following the landscape) at a reciprocating angle, yes? (Unless of course in your reality you can choose not to apply certain laws of physics when it suits you, or if you're one of those charming fundamentalist creationists :D)
So.. following the science, anyone crossing through the beam of reflected light (driving along the road) will be able to see it -because they'll cross through the reflected beam at some point. Using another basic example, if you shine a torch onto a mirror at an angle, the beam of light will be visibly reflected on another wall, or ceiling etc, right?

If anyone has the time to waste you can probably work work out at what distance from any given car you'll get fog light glare, all you'll need to know are the heights of the fog light from the ground, the angle of light beam from the horizontal / vertical, and the amount of 'spread' of the beam from the lamp- for any given type of car. (If you want to get REALLY technical you can also apply factors like the tyre pressures of the car, suspension / ride height, passenger weights, momentum (speed / acceleration / deceleration), forces of gravity that affect the movement of the car...etc - because they'll all have some small bearing on the way the light shines from the lamp).

So now *you* prove how it's NOT possible to get glare from fog lights, using all the physics of light beams you like...
If not, here's a token for you to use at the bar:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2977/stfues3.gif

;):):D

[The Dogfather]

Pmsl :D :D :D :D :D

[KenL]

The difference with the BMW system is that it is being used as a brake light at the time, not a fog light. The law is the same for front and rear fog lights.

Fog lights and brake lights usually have the same wattage bulbs in (21W?).

Rear fog lights on all the time is a PITA for 2 reasons:

1. They ARE blinding
2. Because you are already looking at a very bright reat light it is difficult to notice any change when the brake lights are applied.

[KenL]

The Highway code states:

114

You MUST NOT

use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders
use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226)In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

[duncan]

This thread just makes me think of this old Public Information Film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1AsnnC11AE

[Scottie]

The difference with the BMW system is that it is being used as a brake light at the time, not a fog light. The law is the same for front and rear fog lights.

Fog lights and brake lights usually have the same wattage bulbs in (21W?).

Rear fog lights on all the time is a PITA for 2 reasons:

1. They ARE blinding
2. Because you are already looking at a very bright reat light it is difficult to notice any change when the brake lights are applied.


My point is though technically the BMW system brings on the rear fogs that's a fact. The law says the use of rear fogs is illegal when vision is good.

Which reminds me another thing I hate to see is when the car in front reckons you have your main beam on and so they stick on their rear fogs. Or the car in front thinks you are to close to them so they stick the rear fogs on briefly to make you think they are braking.

[The Dogfather]

Which reminds me another thing I hate to see is when the car in front reckons you have your main beam on and so they stick on their rear fogs. Or the car in front thinks you are to close to them so they stick the rear fogs on briefly to make you think they are braking.

Fi, perhaps the two are related if you get too close in a 4x4 the lights do dazzle. From my experience some 4x4 drivers do have a habit of getting a bit too close. But having said that its not just 4x4 drivers.

[vintageb3]

from your first post-
"And also the fact the fogs are aimed about 5 feet in front of the car low donw [DOWN] and cannot possibly cause glare to other road users."

Ok... Tune the brain cells into 'listen' mode...
Fog lights as you say are aimed DOWNWARDS from the front of the car, at an angle from the horizontal / vertical, right? When the light beams hit the road surface, they are at the same angle from the horizontal / vertical, yes? (basic physics). So when a beam of light hits a surface, in this case let's imagine a wet road (it'll still happen to a lesser degree on dry roads), the beam of light will be reflected (to a certain degree due to imperfections in the surface, road camber and general curvature following the landscape) at a reciprocating angle, yes? (Unless of course in your reality you can choose not to apply certain laws of physics when it suits you, or if you're one of those charming fundamentalist creationists :D)
So.. following the science, anyone crossing through the beam of reflected light (driving along the road) will be able to see it -because they'll cross through the reflected beam at some point. Using another basic example, if you shine a torch onto a mirror at an angle, the beam of light will be visibly reflected on another wall, or ceiling etc, right?

If anyone has the time to waste you can probably work work out at what distance from any given car you'll get fog light glare, all you'll need to know are the heights of the fog light from the ground, the angle of light beam from the horizontal / vertical, and the amount of 'spread' of the beam from the lamp- for any given type of car. (If you want to get REALLY technical you can also apply factors like the tyre pressures of the car, suspension / ride height, passenger weights, momentum (speed / acceleration / deceleration), forces of gravity that affect the movement of the car...etc - because they'll all have some small bearing on the way the light shines from the lamp).

So now *you* prove how it's NOT possible to get glare from fog lights, using all the physics of light beams you like...
If not, here's a token for you to use at the bar:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2977/stfues3.gif

;):):D

I think I agree....:confused:

mark

[vintageb3]

Fog lights and brake lights usually have the same wattage bulbs in (21W?).

yeah...but doesn't the front one have a better designed reflector to throw more light?

mark

[KenL]

yeah...but doesn't the front one have a better designed reflector to throw more light?

mark

Sorry, I meant rear fogs. Front fogs have 55W Halogen bulbs usually.

[JCWmini]

My point is though technically the BMW system brings on the rear fogs that's a fact. The law says the use of rear fogs is illegal when vision is good.

Which reminds me another thing I hate to see is when the car in front reckons you have your main beam on and so they stick on their rear fogs. Or the car in front thinks you are to close to them so they stick the rear fogs on briefly to make you think they are braking.


On the merc the front fogs are activated left or right with the active headlamp system acording to steering inputs. So i guess MB are not to worried about glare from the fog lights.

[KenL]

My point is though technically the BMW system brings on the rear fogs that's a fact. The law says the use of rear fogs is illegal when vision is good.



The point I was trying to make was that a light coming on only with brakes is not a fog light but a brake light ;)

[JCWmini]

First post corrected, for the terminally stupid.:rolleyes:

Thanks need all the help i can get, I spend to much time as a design Engineer crunching numbers and not enough worring about typing errors on forums.

Thanks. :)

[KenL]

On the merc the front fogs are activated left or right with the active headlamp system acording to steering inputs. So i guess MB are not to worried about glare from the fog lights.

I don't believe you, you are probably talking cr*p as usual :p :D

[KenL]

Fi, perhaps the two are related if you get too close in a 4x4 the lights do dazzle.

Agreed, especially the ones with fogs on as well as their high powered Xenon lights. :rolleyes:

[vintageb3]

Thanks need all the help i can get, I spend to much time as a design Engineer

Isn't the use of "to" in the above...instead of "too"...a spelling mistake?..not a typing error:eek: :D

mark

[JCWmini]

Isn't the use of "to" in the above...instead of "too"...a spelling mistake?..not a typing error:eek: :D

mark

No worse than your use of grammer. :D

[vintageb3]

No worse than your use of grammer. :D

Grammer?....hmmm...grammar me thinks...I'm so hurt.:rolleyes:

mark

[The Dogfather]

Thanks need all the help i can get, I spend to much time as a design Engineer crunching numbers and not enough worring about typing errors on forums.

Thanks. :)

Wow, remind me not to have anything to do with what you 'engineer'. I would imagine, well in fact I know, attention to detail is pretty important to an engineer.

[The Dogfather]

BTW, you have conveniently chosen to ignore all the other points in the tread, come on Mr Engineer you have some theories to disprove.

You should just admit you are wrong and apologise for all the name calling, you might even earn some respect by doing it.

[The Dogfather]

I've tried, but I just can't believe you're an engineer.

You do realise that putting bike together at halfords or building furniture at Ikea doesn't make you a real engineer?

[Scottie]

you guys are like a dog with a bone:D

[vintageb3]

you guys are like a dog with a bone:D

You should never play with bones....they get broken easily:D

mark

[AndyP & Lenore]

you guys are like a dog with a bone:D

Can you blame us Fi?

The guy tries to claim he's right, the law's an ass, and then when we point out to him he's the ass, he calls us all terminally stupid. If he would learn to spell and use correct punctuation while doing this, we'd still be standing our ground on the legal issues but we may not have been so pissed off at being called terminally stupid.:rolleyes:


A.:D

[ianking]

I also work as a Design Engineer, I have an hons degree in Design Engineering and I have to agree with the non-engineers that fog lights should only be used when there is FOG.

[The Dogfather]

I also work as a Design Engineer, I have an hons degree in Design Engineering and I have to agree with the non-engineers that fog lights should only be used when there is FOG.


Now he sounds like a real engineer, and look he can spell as well. :D

[Burple]

I think I agree....:confused:

mark

:eek::eek::eek: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! :D:D:D

[AndyP & Lenore]

:eek::eek::eek: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! :D:D:D

Had to happen sooner or later. :) :)

[vintageb3]

Had to happen sooner or later. :) :)

It has been later though....;) :D

mark

[vintageb3]

BTW, you have conveniently chosen to ignore all the other points in the tread,

VB....are you still on about bloody tyres???!!!!:eek: :D

I thought you won that one already:rolleyes: :D

mark

[The Dogfather]

VB....are you still on about bloody tyres???!!!!:eek: :D

I thought you won that one already:rolleyes: :D

mark

Must have been typing with gloves on

[AeroJonny]

...so this is where grown ups come to squabble!!!! ;)

[vintageb3]

...so this is where grown ups come to squabble!!!! ;)

Oh thank God your back mate!!!...we can sit back and let an expert carry on :eek:

ONLY JOKING:D !!!

mark

[vintageb3]

Must have been typing with gloves on

Gulp:eek: Boxing Gloves?:eek: :D

mark

[JCWmini]

...so this is where grown ups come to squabble!!!! ;)

Apparently so, lols..

[AeroJonny]

Oh thank God your back mate!!!...we can sit back and let an expert carry on :eek:

ONLY JOKING:D !!!

mark

Found myself flashing a guy with his fogs on this morning, think I'm being drawn to the (ahem) dark side.

[KenL]

Fogs don't blind other road users :eek:
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p176/steve3452/PICT2240.jpg

[duncan]

Correct me if I'm wrong,

My understanding is that the main beam of the headlamps is angled to the Nearside, but This isn't the case with Fogs, and they are set straight on.

[KenL]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the main beam of the headlamps is angled to the Nearside.

This isn't the case with Fogs, and are set straight on.


I think that is true.

[The Dogfather]

I think you're right Duncan, however our resident 'engineer' will be along soon to disprove what you're saying.

[Burple]

I think you're right Duncan, however our resident 'engineer' will be along soon to disprove what you're saying.

You reckon? :D:D:D

[The Dogfather]

You reckon? :D:D:D

Nah, he's too busy trying to prove that 1.6mm of tread on tyres is excessive.

[JCWmini]

Correct me if I'm wrong,

My understanding is that the main beam of the headlamps is angled to the Nearside, but This isn't the case with Fogs, and they are set straight on.


Well in for a penny.

Main beam is aimed straight on, headlamps are dipped to the left.

Fogs are aimed low and straight, with a beam pattern more spread out so that they pick up the edges of the road.

Sorry Buffoon despite what you think you know nothing about me hence why your posts are becoming increasingly ridiculous.

How about you stop your juvenile attempts at winding other members up.

[duncan]

And yet they're still straight ahead - like a main beam - so very much prevelent to dazzling drivers coming the other way.

You're also forgetting that headlight beams are tested at the MOT time for beam alignment, something that fogs aren't, so if they ever go out of alignment, they'll rarely be adjusted back to the correct pattern.

[JCWmini]

You're also forgetting that headlight beams are tested at the MOT time for beam alignment, something that fogs aren't, so if they ever go out of alignment, they'll rarely be adjusted back to the correct pattern.

Not forgetting anything, as in the first post I suggested poorly set up headlights are much more dangerous, that would also include fogs for sure.

I have yet to come across any cars that cause me glare issues with fogs on. Defiantly have from main beam or poorly adjusted headlamps.

Fogs should not project much more than 4m beyond the front of the car, with a wide spread beam pattern.

[The Dogfather]

Well in for a penny.

Main beam is aimed straight on, headlamps are dipped to the left.

Fogs are aimed low and straight, with a beam pattern more spread out so that they pick up the edges of the road.

Sorry Buffoon despite what you think you know nothing about me hence why your posts are becoming increasingly ridiculous.

How about you stop your juvenile attempts at winding other members up.

Other members? Nah, only you, you're obviously special, [e]special[ly] rude [e]special[ly] ignorant. You should have apologised for the 'terminally stupid' comment and you might what to be a little less rude, the badge post you made in response to SC was a perfect example.

But tell you what I'll open another thread with a vote so we can draw a line under this foglight debate. Majority wins eh?

[euan]

Blimey, what did I miss in here!

My viewpoint...

Front fogs dazzle, particularly in the wet. If your in a 4x4 the effect may not be so bad, but in something lower like a classic mini, or sports coupes it can be a problem. And that is the point here - if it's a problem for ANY road user, you shouldn't be doing it.

Fi - it may well be different on newer ones, but on my E46 it's not the fogs that come on if you brake really hard, but an outer set of LEDs on the brake light.

And in response to Mercedes use of fogs - they do it, but not in the conventional sense. It was a new system and is called the Intelligent Light System. I'll leave others to fill in the line that goes with that - Link (http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedkingdom/mpc/mpc_unitedkingdom_website/en/home_mpc/passenger_cars/home/products/new_cars/eclass_estate/features1/safety1.0001.0001.html)

[sedgie]

Bloody 'ell...wot you all like!....fighting over "fog lights":o If your not happy with peeps using them...just put full beam on n be done with it!:D

[s12cot]

right... thought I would turn on the front foggers on the subaru this morning to see if they made an impact on what i could see in the dark..... as most of you know scoobys have rather larger foggers..... well it makes no differance to what i could see in front of me, in fact i was almost standing up in the car to see the differance they made...... which was nothing

so from my point of view, only use them when the law states that they should other wise they are a pest to other road users... and you don't have to point out i can't spell because i know...