Pop concerts....

[AndyP & Lenore]

In the cinema we have a huge bass driver behind the screen to supply the deep chest-thumping base notes. We were at a Wet Wet Wet concert in Glasgow last night and I noticed they had the usual two huge chain-hung speaker banks on each side of the stage, but they were just made up of full-frequency regular speakers - or so it seemed to me.:confused:

What I didn't see was any bass drivers in huge bins. Do they usually have them hidden away somewhere?

Another wee question.... For a fair bit of the show, they seemed to be having trouble with feedback. Especially at the start. Surely this must be the monitor speakers, but why on earth am I the only one who noticed it? Don't they have sound engineers at the back of the hall watching/listening for this? Or is it more likely it's just my ageing ears?:confused:

Show was very good though.:D They're all showing their age these days - aren't we all? But was 2 hours of great entertainment.

And before anyone posts a "Wets" bashing, don't bother - I'll just abuse my Mod powers and delete your quips.

And for Craig D, Lenore say's: "He does not look Gay in that picture message, you're just jealous!"

A.:D

[Burple]

And before anyone posts a "Wets" bashing, don't bother - I'll just abuse my Mod powers and delete your quips.

And for Craig D, Lenore say's: "He does not look Gay in that picture message, you're just jealous!"

A.:D


"Off Topic & Banter General Banter, Jokes and Piss Taking" :rolleyes::rolleyes:;):p

If you're gonna admit going to a Damp Damp Damp concert, be man enough to take what you get! :p:p:D

[ianking]

"Off Topic & Banter General Banter, Jokes and Piss Taking" :rolleyes::rolleyes:;):p

If you're gonna admit going to a Damp Damp Damp concert, be man enough to take what you get! :p:p:D

Here here. :D :D

Im going to the SECC Glasgow this Sat the 15th to see The Verve.
Were you at the same place

[AndyP & Lenore]

Here here. :D :D

Im going to the SECC Glasgow this Sat the 15th to see The Verve.
Were you at the same place

Yes, we were at the SECC.:D

A:D

[sedgie]

The bass drivers are usually under or at the side of the stage:D
Especially if it was a "line array" rig!

I know bog all about any o this...all come from hubby as he has a P.A company and is a sound engineer.

[AndyP & Lenore]

The bass drivers are usually under or at the side of the stage:D
Especially if it was a "line array" rig!

I know bog all about any o this...all come from hubby as he has a P.A company and is a sound engineer.

Ahhh. That would make sense Sedgie. Under the stage deffo makes sense.

No idea what a line array is though. But I would imagine a line array would be a line of speakers in an array dropping down either side of the stage usually hung by a chain. That's what they had.;)

Cheers for that.

A.:D

[vintageb3]

I'm privy to some info on this gig....but can't say too much in a public forum...as it wouldn't be quite right. I called Andy this morning to discuss a related matter...and this was matter was discussed.

I was supposed to be at the gig yesterday commissioning new keyboard gear for Neil Mitchell the keys player. Neil and I have been both waiting on a new keyboard coming out. I'm a endorsee and retailer of this companies products...so was chuffed when Neil dealt through me. I got the first two units in the UK (one for me;) )worked all bloody Saturday hooking the new unit up to Neil's Leslie speaker. We were both peed off about not being able to go ahead with implementing them into his rig. Neil and I both called it off for very valid reasons. It just didn't seem the time to bring new gear in, as it may have caused "problems"

Both wee Neil and I have been through similar situations before when things may be less than perfect...and a change is made that just topples the apple cart. We didn't want to take the risk at a home town show.

But, it did sound like most of the problems were sorted out during the show. These things happen in live music...it is live after all....well sort of;)

As Lesley has said...the subs are usually directly under the hanging speakers. And they were using "line array"

I'm sure Gordon will put this across better than me....because when P.A. guys start talking about gear...its all numbers to me and I switch off. I get the jist of what's happening:rolleyes:

These hanging speakers are called a "line array" system...and nearly every P.A. cab manufacturer has their own 'line array" system. The system has a crossover point that can be adjusted so that the desired frequency range required for the room can be utilized. So...if you like...treble and mid will come through the line array...and maybe even low mid and some bass (Gordon?)...but sub bass is handled by the subs.

I can find out exactly what system it was you heard...leave that with me. Probably a system from SSE, Brit Row, Cane Green or SKAN...probably V-dosc though...its popular.

They are designed to throw further than conventional speaker systems. They also have a wide dispersion....but a very narrow projection...that's why they hang about ten of them...and they curve from the front row to the gods (exaggeration) They are tiny in comparison to conventional "boxes" and you need less of them...so "flying" them in the air is easier because they weigh less.

I've never heard a line array system that I have liked over a conventional system, but I do understand exactly why they are used. Line array covers more seats for a further distance...and leaves less uncovered areas in the house. This means there are less complaints from the punters (OK...this is a simplistic view....but at the end of the day...true)

We used a EAW conventional system for years...and it was like having a HUGE Hi-fi in the room...every little nuance was taken from the stage and conveyed to the audience....well...nearly all the audience...since the coverage was less than a "line array" system.

Last time out, we used DV-dosc from L.Accoustics a french company .....and I didn't like the sound as much as before....but I got the same sound wherever I walked in the house.

The science is pretty amazing...well the first time you hear about it....but sound guys do go on a bit...eh Gordon??? :eek: :D

Sound guys will go on and on about line array sounding better....if its what the use;) ...but I prefer the old way :)

I was working at the Crowded House gig in the same room last week...and I sat and watched the show from side of stage....next to the subs. The bass end in an arena could make you ill!!!!

Anyway, most feedback emanates from the stage...but FOH can have problems there too.

I know for a fact that its a mix of stage monitors and in-ears on the Wets gig.

The monitor guy has to put in-ears in to mix for the guys wearing in-ears...then whip them out and listen to his listening wedges to mix for the guys that are using monitors. Its like mixing two gigs at the one time. I have friends that are monitor guys that have said...they prefer to do gigs when its all monitors...or all in-ears. It get difficult when its a mix of the two...and dangerous as well. There little to no chance of on stage feedback when its all in-ears...but if there are stage monitors as well...and something feeds back...you get a fright when on in-ears.

Although there will be limiters on the in-ear packs...its painful when you get feedback...but its more of a fright you get.

Its not an easy job to be standing behind a mixing desk...if there's a stage feedback problem.

If anything goes wrong on stage...its the monitor guy that the band look at first...doesn't matter what the problem is. Its what goes with the job unfortunately...but many monitor guys have lost their jobs because of feedback not caused by them :)

Hope this helps Andy...

mark

[sedgie]

well mark,

to add a few points from a horses mouth!?:confused: ...heres some extras for you.

firstly, yes, bass bins are usually placed underneath the line array hang, sometimes encroaching under the stage.

a line array speaker system is called such, due to all the boxes being identical in components, and when placed in a vertical line, like components 'amplify' with each other, creating a further horizontal boost. most line array systems will produce 90 to 120 degrees horizontal spread. the reason most are hung fromt the roof downwards, and appear to be in a curve shape, is due to where they are pointing in a 'front to back' of the audience position. as sound comes out of a speaker in a parabolic curve, if the speaker is high up, and angled slightly downwards, then the bottom of the parabola is nearly horizontal (parallel with the ground, (or audience heads) this parabola creates an equal sound pressure level throughout its curve...hence why it sounds as loud at the back of the hall, as it does at the front. the theory is then you need less speaker boxes as a conventional ground stack as the 'flown' boxes have 'clear space' to push sound through, with no people in the way. so with less boxes..it creates the question of is it as loud?:p

its 'crossover' parameters are not usually altered at all.

to answer the 'feedback' question, it could be a variaety of things causing this, guitar to amp is a common one..and yes vocals in wedge monitors is the most likely. the possibilty of it not going away quickly could be due to the band having digital mixing desks. these have all effects and gates and compressors and graphics built in to their programmes. which cuts down on truck space and weight, and they can have better sound, due to no internal moving parts. their main fault is user ease as oppose to a 'conventional' desk set up, as it takes a few seconds to get the correct screen up on the deskas oppose to reaching accross and moving a knob:p

the other main feedback cause is bands changing various volumes onstage during the show, after the sound check when it has all been set. this can the mean singers asking for more vocal levels, to compensate for more stage noise. this can then spill out to the front of house sound.

as sound guys tend to go on and on (and ariston:p ) i have tired to be more concise and corect then mark has!:D

lots of love from gordon

[AndyP & Lenore]

Cheers Guys! Lots of info there. Very interesting stuff.

I should have known it wouldn't be as simple as... "Ah, they must not have plugged in the 'feedback blocker' thingymabob."

Startled they get that base out of such little speakers, but the science you've used to describe it is very interesting.

A.;)

[vintageb3]

w

as sound guys tend to go on and on (and ariston:p ) i have tired to be more concise and corect then mark has!:D

lots of love from gordon

See...i knew you knew what yer were talking about;) :D

Correct is good;)

mark

[vintageb3]

its 'crossover' parameters are not usually altered at all.



Gordon...I've seen guys using laptops on the network accessing various parameters including unlocking the crossovers and playing with the settings.

Why do they need to do this then?

Just interested really...

Thanks mate!

Oh!...and Ally Parley bluetoothed me a cracker of a photo of you:D :eek:

It was of Gothic proportions!:D

mark

[sedgie]

ha!:p

laptops are used more with a system program for that particular speaker system which you put in room dimensions and height of speakers, number of boxes etc etc etc, it tells you the angles required between each box. you can then get further into it, you can generate pink noise through the system, and thus the laptop programme can tell you particular frequency bands (ie amps running the high mids) to adjust volume on(ie increase by 2db) or to adjust the phase of the drivers in question. it depends on the crossover/speaker system used as to how many variables there are that you can adjust if you wish.:D

my gothicness was never an issue here!:eek:
ally will suffer for this no doubt!:mad: