Lenore wants it to be stiffer

[AndyP & Lenore]

Well, we both do, to be honest.:o

And to kill the innuendo-mongers stone dead, I'm talking about the suspension in our R56.:D

It's probably the only thing that disappoints. Our R53 Cooper S was a very rigid car, we felt every tiny crack in the road. Almost bone shatteringly firm ride. And we loved that, so we specc'ed Sports Suspension + for the R56 expecting it to be the same. It's not. It's a much softer ride than what we prefer and to be honest, we feel the handling suffers. We don't feel as confident throwing the car into corners the same as we did the R53.

I was reading an article in last months (Issue 16 - November) Modern Mini about suspension. It's their usual article with the former JCW Guru Tony Franks - he now runs the MINI Motorsport Centre in Shoreham-by-Sea and they build cars for the MINI Challenge. He is saying if you uprate the springs and dampers you should also uprate the suspension arm bushes. This should give a more positive drive.

Presumably if we want stiffer handling we will need to upgrade the springs, dampers and also the bushes. Does anyone know if it is possible to change to stiffer springs/dampers without lowering the car? We feel it's low enough, TBH. And has anyone had any experience with fitting firmer bushes?

A.;)

[vintageb3]

Sway bars too? (Or good ole anti roll bars to you and I;) )

Here's a wee link:

http://www.altaminiperformance.com/products/list?category=2&model=11

Lohen could sort all this out for you...AND...as a mond on here always states "They are a site sponser":D

mark

[vintageb3]

And has anyone had any experience with fitting firmer bushes?

A.;)

No comment....:eek:

mark

[vintageb3]

SEE!!!!...you didn't see that one coming....you thought I would go for the easy pickings;)

mark

[Crombers]

Ah to the joys of the 'slim' MINI :D

[vintageb3]

Hey Ando...

Look at this;)

http://www.altaminiperformance.com/products/show/382/ALTA-Plug-N-Play-ECU

mark

[AndyP & Lenore]

Jeesy Peeps, Mark! If I'm following the graphs correctly on NAM (linked to from the ALTA web site) this takes the car up to 220bhp at the fly wheel.

Very interesting indeed.

A.;)

[vintageb3]

Or if all you really want is it stiffier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBr98Nji-mA

mark

[illegalhunter]

I knew this thread would end up in the gutter Mark

[Neil and Lorna]

I've heard that if you change your bushes you should go for prickly ones around the windows.;)

Apparently it deters thieves climbing in.:eek:

Sorry couldn't resist.

Neil.

[FergusM]

What about the JCW offical sports suspension package that got released recently..sure there was a thread about it on the Menzies section here ?

[Scottie]

I so want to reply to the title but I won't;)

re the suspension. Cheapest option upgrade to 18's with runflats see how much stiffer that makes the suspension. Didn't we talk about this last weekend e'mm about the 18's and RF I mean.:p :p ;)

[AndyP & Lenore]

I so want to reply to the title but I won't;)

re the suspension. Cheapest option upgrade to 18's with runflats see how much stiffer that makes the suspension. Didn't we talk about this last weekend e'mm about the 18's and RF I mean.:p :p ;)

Not sure that's the cheapest option Fi. Looking at £1300 for the 105's we want.:D

That will give us a harder ride, but I'm not sure that will fix the "sloppiness" in corners.:confused:

A.:D

[The Dogfather]

It seems to be a common complaint that newer versions of great handling cars seem to be softer. The MX5 NC (3rd Generation) is softer and doesn't handle as well as the NB, this may be due to the fact that the car had to be fitted with taller springs to meet the EU pedestrian regulations.

Mazda dealers offer a Eibach springs which lower the car by 30mm, and remove the cars jacked up 4x4 appearance, cost £300. I think most will agree that the fat MINIs look a bit jacked up when compared to the slim model. Perhaps BMW had to do the same.

Andy, there's quite a few people on the MX5 forums who have spoken very highly of a company called Wheels in Motion. They might be able to help to tune the car to suit your requirements......... Only downside is they're darn sarf, Watford I think

[vintageb3]

Jeesy Peeps, Mark! If I'm following the graphs correctly on NAM (linked to from the ALTA web site) this takes the car up to 220bhp at the fly wheel.

Very interesting indeed.

A.;)

And the price against the JCW?;)

Its a UniChip...with a Alta map...and you have had experience with Unichip before

I like Alta stuff I must say.

mark

[vintageb3]

OK...here's a thought occured to me today while I was thinking about your stiffy problem...and performance issue. (car related).

I really could understand at one time folks wanting to keep their car all JCW.

John Cooper to the original Mini was a demi God.

To the R50...it was nice to see a connection with John Cooper (Mike Cooper)

Last year...the JCW garage closed its doors...and although I believe that mike Cooper still has involvement with the tuning packages...I think the romantic notion of having a JCW badge has now gone.

Not meaning to upset anyone...BUT:rolleyes: Is JCW any better than the options now open to the Mini owner for tuning etc?

GTT. Lohen and 1320Autos...all UK companies have packages that blow the JCW performance figures out of the water. I also believe that these companies offer packages that are cheaper or comparable with JCW.

Since JCW is now only a logo and a marketing avenue for BMW...the only reasons I can think to stay JCW is to keep your warrenty intact and if you intend trading your car in.

I'm not knocking BMW's here...I love them...kinda why I have a Mini...its akinda like having a front wheel drive BMW (OK...maybe not)

Warranty I can understand....but i could never understand why folks trade in a car.

I never done it...because you can walk in and get a better price for the banger you are about to buy...and usually get a better price against a trade in if you sell your old banger privately.

For once...I'm asking a serious question here: Why do people trade cars in?

Thanks

mark

[vintageb3]

I so want to reply to the title but I won't;)

re the suspension. Cheapest option upgrade to 18's with runflats see how much stiffer that makes the suspension. Didn't we talk about this last weekend e'mm about the 18's and RF I mean.:p :p ;)

And Andy knows a very nice man with a cracking set of 18"s that he could try on....Neil;)

I'm so jealous of your wheels Neil:rolleyes:

mark

[Gismo]

For once...I'm asking a serious question here: Why do people trade cars in?

Thanks

mark
Cause it's far more easier to do, especially if you know you've got a niggly fault, kerbed wheels etc etc
Sales folk blind us with a nice looking figure of how much it'll cost to get that new/newer car.
Beware the salesman who asks how much you can afford to pay each month, once you tell him you're suckered in.

Anyway, back on topic, i reckon going aftermarket for your suspension will increase your rigidity :eek: stiffer dampers and lower will give you what you desire.
A custom job from Leda or similar, like what Fi got would cost ya

[AndyP & Lenore]

It seems to be a common complaint that newer versions of great handling cars seem to be softer. The MX5 NC (3rd Generation) is softer and doesn't handle as well as the NB, this may be due to the fact that the car had to be fitted with taller springs to meet the EU pedestrian regulations.

Mazda dealers offer a Eibach springs which lower the car by 30mm, and remove the cars jacked up 4x4 appearance, cost £300. I think most will agree that the fat MINIs look a bit jacked up when compared to the slim model. Perhaps BMW had to do the same.

Andy, there's quite a few people on the MX5 forums who have spoken very highly of a company called Wheels in Motion. They might be able to help to tune the car to suit your requirements......... Only downside is they're darn sarf, Watford I think

It does seem that way Paul. I've spoken with a few MINI dealerships the past few days (sales and technical) and they've all admitted the 2nd Gen new MINI is more appealing to a wider driver group, but has to a certain extent alienated the harder-core MINI drivers the 1st gen new MINI appealed to. And I think that's down to a two-fold reason - the 2nd gen is less aggressive in looks and the handling is much softer than the 1st gen. Like you say, it may well be down to Euro rules that have caused the higher ride.



And Andy knows a very nice man with a cracking set of 18"s that he could try on....Neil;)

I'm so jealous of your wheels Neil:rolleyes:

mark

Funny you should mention that..... Neil and I were talking about this just a couple of weeks ago, and I'd forgotten he'd offered to come round and we'll swap wheels for a wee while..... just to see what we thought of the 18's. Will need to ask him about this and get it organised.



Cause it's far more easier to do, especially if you know you've got a niggly fault, kerbed wheels etc etc
Sales folk blind us with a nice looking figure of how much it'll cost to get that new/newer car.
Beware the salesman who asks how much you can afford to pay each month, once you tell him you're suckered in.

Anyway, back on topic, i reckon going aftermarket for your suspension will increase your rigidity :eek: stiffer dampers and lower will give you what you desire.
A custom job from Leda or similar, like what Fi got would cost ya


Stiffer is what we want. Lower is not. I honestly think the R56 with the aero kit on is low enough. Really don't want to go any lower.

Which brings me back to one of the original questions...... Does anyone know if it is possible to change the springs/dampers WITHOUT lowering the car?

A.

[The Dogfather]

Does anyone know if it is possible to change the springs/dampers WITHOUT lowering the car?

A.

I bet that Wheels in motion would be able to advise...........

[KenL]

For once...I'm asking a serious question here: Why do people trade cars in?

1. No guarantee that you can sell your car privately. I failed to sell my 2002 MINI despite it being well priced and in superb condition, nobody even came to see it. I traded it and it was bought from a dealer for £1k more than I was asking.

2. Timescales can be a problem. If you advertise early enough to sell, you may have to hire a car to tide you over.

3. Possibly the biggest one. There is always a small chance that you will be fleeced/robbed by some dodgy git.

4. Cannae be bothered!

[Neil and Lorna]

I'm so jealous of your wheels Neil:rolleyes:

mark


Mark.

I know there crackin wheels but yours are just as nice.:D


Neil.:D

[vintageb3]

Mark.

I know there crackin wheels but yours are just as nice.:D


Neil.:D

I blush...and thank you for your kind words...but i really do think yours are nicer:D

mark

[Neil and Lorna]

I blush...and thank you for your kind words...but i really do think yours are nicer:D

mark

We can swap if you want I think yours are usually cleaner.:D

Neil.

[FergusM]

It does seem that way Paul. I've spoken with a few MINI dealerships the past few days (sales and technical) and they've all admitted the 2nd Gen new MINI is more appealing to a wider driver group, but has to a certain extent alienated the harder-core MINI drivers the 1st gen new MINI appealed to. And I think that's down to a two-fold reason - the 2nd gen is less aggressive in looks and the handling is much softer than the 1st gen. Like you say, it may well be down to Euro rules that have caused the higher ride.




Funny you should mention that..... Neil and I were talking about this just a couple of weeks ago, and I'd forgotten he'd offered to come round and we'll swap wheels for a wee while..... just to see what we thought of the 18's. Will need to ask him about this and get it organised.





Stiffer is what we want. Lower is not. I honestly think the R56 with the aero kit on is low enough. Really don't want to go any lower.

Which brings me back to one of the original questions...... Does anyone know if it is possible to change the springs/dampers WITHOUT lowering the car?

A.


Rule out the JCW handling kit... but think that lowers it 10mm.... and I already rub on every speed hump so would not consider it with the aero kit. I am guessing stiffer anti-roll bars would probably do what you want ?

[AndyP & Lenore]

Rule out the JCW handling kit... but think that lowers it 10mm.... and I already rub on every speed hump so would not consider it with the aero kit. I am guessing stiffer anti-roll bars would probably do what you want ?

Not sure they would Fergus. We've had the JCW anti-roll bar since the car was only a week or so old, and still have the handling issues. So I'm not convinced it will make that much difference if we went for, say, the GTT anti-roll bar which is supposed to be stiffer than the JCW one.;)

A. :D

[vintageb3]

We can swap if you want I think yours are usually cleaner.:D

Neil.

OK...I know when I'm beaten...you took this further than i ever contemplated...I bow out gracefully:D

mark

[Neil and Lorna]

Not sure they would Fergus. We've had the JCW anti-roll bar since the car was only a week or so old, and still have the handling issues. So I'm not convinced it will make that much difference if we went for, say, the GTT anti-roll bar which is supposed to be stiffer than the JCW one.;)

A. :D


Hey Bro

I might be wrong but arn't roll bars different from strut braces.

Maybe somebody can clarify that.

Neil.:D

[Scottie]

Hey Bro

I might be wrong but arn't roll bars different from strut braces.

Maybe somebody can clarify that.

Neil.:D



Yes it is.

[ELFMAN]

Oh dear Andy..... so it's gone all soft. Mine's still stiff as a board, and I haven't been near a bush for ages. Just goes to show - the R53 is WELL 'ARD mate!!!!

Seriously though, Evo mag took an R56 (with JCW engine upgrade) round their Test Track, and while it admittedly it wasn't with the usual 2-up with a full tank, it set the fastest time ever by a 'Hot Hatch' which proves it must handle pretty well - so beware of going too stiff - you might regret it on our bumpier roads.... especially if you go for 18's too. Evo reckoned initially that the new car was softer to its detriment, but have reconsidered a wee bit and now seem to reckon (at least with the power upgrade) that the more compliant suspension actually allows you to use more of the grunt more of the time on the road. That's why I've stuck to 16's - my car on 17 runflats with my stiff suspension (and remember my JCW stuff is more 'compliant' than the original Sport Plus gear) would be pants on our roads in comparison. It's getting 4 new Goodyear 'Excellence' runflats on Tuesday, so it'll be interesting to see how they compare with my old Eagle NCT's.

Don't go for viagra suspension too quickly - you might wish you hadn't!

[AndyP & Lenore]

Oh dear Andy..... so it's gone all soft. Mine's still stiff as a board, and I haven't been near a bush for ages. Just goes to show - the R53 is WELL 'ARD mate!!!!

Seriously though, Evo mag took an R56 (with JCW engine upgrade) round their Test Track, and while it admittedly it wasn't with the usual 2-up with a full tank, it set the fastest time ever by a 'Hot Hatch' which proves it must handle pretty well - so beware of going too stiff - you might regret it on our bumpier roads.... especially if you go for 18's too. Evo reckoned initially that the new car was softer to its detriment, but have reconsidered a wee bit and now seem to reckon (at least with the power upgrade) that the more compliant suspension actually allows you to use more of the grunt more of the time on the road. That's why I've stuck to 16's - my car on 17 runflats with my stiff suspension (and remember my JCW stuff is more 'compliant' than the original Sport Plus gear) would be pants on our roads in comparison. It's getting 4 new Goodyear 'Excellence' runflats on Tuesday, so it'll be interesting to see how they compare with my old Eagle NCT's.

Don't go for viagra suspension too quickly - you might wish you hadn't!


Hmmmm. Food for thought Ewan. I think we'll get the JCW kit on first then, then see if we feel the handling needs more adjustment. Also need to try the 18's and see if they make a difference.

A.;)

[AndyP & Lenore]

Rule out the JCW handling kit... but think that lowers it 10mm.... and I already rub on every speed hump so would not consider it with the aero kit. I am guessing stiffer anti-roll bars would probably do what you want ?


Not sure they would Fergus. We've had the JCW anti-roll bar since the car was only a week or so old, and still have the handling issues. So I'm not convinced it will make that much difference if we went for, say, the GTT anti-roll bar which is supposed to be stiffer than the JCW one.;)

A. :D


Hey Bro

I might be wrong but arn't roll bars different from strut braces.

Maybe somebody can clarify that.

Neil.:D


Yes it is.

I stand corrected and much better informed. Just had a look at Lohen's web site and (unusually) Neil is correct. Anti Roll bars are different to strut braces.

Their site does say that a stiffer anti roll bar is something you may want to consider after stiffening up the suspension though. So still not sure it should be our first port of call.

Cheers though.

A.;)

[Gismo]

How about putting wheel spacers on the front wheels, reduces understeer and is something that GTT recommend.
This won't stiffen the suspension, but it may give you more confidence when cornering, besides, it's a very cheap option compared to a suspension change.
I have the GTT strut brace, albeit on my R53 S, it certainly eliminates body roll, again another cheaper mod than suspension

[AndyP & Lenore]

How about putting wheel spacers on the front wheels, reduces understeer and is something that GTT recommend.
This won't stiffen the suspension, but it may give you more confidence when cornering, besides, it's a very cheap option compared to a suspension change.
I have the GTT strut brace, albeit on my R53 S, it certainly eliminates body roll, again another cheaper mod than suspension

Hmmmm. I thought wheels spacers were just for after market wheels that were maybe a bit big to fit in the space - another example of my ignorance. Will look in to that too. Cheers A.

A.:D

[AndyP & Lenore]

On the subject of wheels spacers..... can you get locking wheels bolts that are extended? Lohen's web site simply says "locking wheels bolts not included".:confused:

A.

[Gismo]

On the subject of wheels spacers..... can you get locking wheels bolts that are extended? Lohen's web site simply says "locking wheels bolts not included".:confused:

A.
I never mentioned Lohen?? i'm sure you'll get them from GTT, really depends on how thick the spacers you fit will be

[ELFMAN]

MINI have spent a bundle on development for a purpose. Seems a bit strange if the car feels floppy enough to warrant changing stuff. Should you maybe give it a few months longer to acclimatise to the different set-up? Especially when the Winter's coming in - more compliant suspension could be useful in the wet/frost etc. I may be wrong, but the stiffer a car is at the front, won't it have a tendency to push wide in certain conditions? The 'Morego' S tested in Modern MINI had spacers on for the big brakes, lowered suspension and more negative camber at the front - and they reckoned it felt 'slightly sharper, more direct feel and marginally better turn-in response'. But they said that it 'didn't feel a whole lot different' to the standard car - but remember that was only on a limited test run. The Morego's putting out 216bhp/235lb ft torque by the way.

You'd have to have a go in a similarly modded R56 to see if it was worth it. But if Evo reckon the car is damn good with the standard set-up (on 17" runflats too...) and more power, you can bet it probably is.

[vintageb3]

On the subject of wheels spacers..... can you get locking wheels bolts that are extended? Lohen's web site simply says "locking wheels bolts not included".:confused:

A.

Andy...you only need extended wheels studs above a certain thickness of spacer. You don't really want to be spacing out too much do you?

mark

[AndyP & Lenore]

Gonna give Lohen a ring tomorrow. See what they recommend. But I also need to find a friendly place to have anything I buy (stiffer dampers/harder springs) fitted locally.

A.:D

[vintageb3]

Nah!...Take a drive down...its only 4.5 hours away...and they are just 10 easy minutes off the M6.

I think their fitting prices are fair.

Take Lenore for a wee break!;)

In that way...she wouldn't have to wait till you got home to experience how stiff your ride has become.

Eh?:confused: :eek: ;)

mark

[The Dogfather]

Andy, get them fitted somewhere who knows how to set a car up. I remember Bonnie having his coil overs on Millie professionally set up after struggling to keep up with Sheilz on a run.

Ask Lohen for the best geometry settings for the car, if they worth their salt they should be able to advise.