Fault with '07 Minis

[Mamoura]

Anyone else noticed how hot the passenger footwell gets? I've been involved with Harry Fairbairn, Mini Customer Support etc and the short version of a long saga is that the pipe feeding the heater matrix is continually pumping heat into the cabin! In my wife's new Cooper S, this heats up the panel to 55C within 10 minutes of normal driving, and BMW say this is within 'design limits' and see nothing wrong, but have referred the data taken from 3 cars checked at HF's. [All showing this temperature]

The service manager at HF was amazed at how hot the panel became after a short test drive, took the car into the workshop to check - and badly burnt his finger investigating the source of the problem. [He showed me the inch long blister!]
Last contact with BMW they told me that this wasn't a 'fault' and that "many parts of a car heat up and shouldn't be touched, such as brake discs and calipers and components under the bonnet". Pity, the service manager hadn't heeded their advice then?

[X30YES]

"many parts of a car heat up and shouldn't be touched",Thats for sure , but!!! , the passenger footwell !!!!!:confused: :rolleyes: ,what do you do , sit with your feet on the dash ?:eek:

[FergusM]

Never noticed that one... where abouts in the passenger foot well... kinda scared to put my hand down there if it gets roasting !

[Craig]

not noticed this either (which for me is amazing.! :p ;) )

as Fergus says, let us know where... :D

[AndyP & Lenore]

not noticed this either (which for me is amazing.! :p ;) )

as Fergus says, let us know where... :D

WOAH!!! It seems to me, you don't need any help in finding faults.:eek: :eek: :D :D ;)

A.:D

[Craig]

WOAH!!! It seems to me, you don't need any help in finding faults.:eek: :eek: :D :D ;)

A.:D


easy tiger...! Just get those notes finished.... ;) :D

[Mamoura]

The panel on the passenger side of what us rear-wheel drive people might call the 'transmission tunnel'. She noticed it first when a lipstick in her handbag melted after sitting down there during a 20 minute commute. Thought she'd been driving with the heater on at first. Next day I was with her and I had sandals on - could feel the heat radiating out within 10 minutes, and that's when the 'saga' started... Harry Fairbairn - MINI 'Customer Service' etc. All the data is off to the Factory but they are so far saying it's within their design specification for this panel reach 55C - Aye right!!!!!! So why didn't the Service Manager tell me that straight away, before he burnt his hand investigating the cause? Why did MINI techs send a fancy heat probe to Harry Fairbairns to check 3 cars? [all read the same 55C after 10 minutes running the engine]

[Gismo]

I find this hard to believe, but, 3 other cars are the same, what about other R56 owners :confused:

[Mamoura]

It's a May '07 Cooper S, and they checked 3 other new MINIs [don't know specs] at Harry Fairbairns and they were the same.... 5 minutes and you can feel the heat coming through from the pipe behind, 10 minutes and you can't touch the panel. We've no a/c on the car and running the fan doesn't cool the panel, just spreads the heat into the cabin. I don't know if having a/c means a different arrangement of 'plumbing' into the car...

The service guy at Fairbairn did said he'd have expected the hot fluids to be recycled in the engine bay, and he used the words 'design fault' - but very quickly retracted when I asked if I could quote him. [I have a witness to the conversations!]

[Scottie]

No a/c or just manual a/c I think most peeps on here will have a car with the air con either manual or auto.

the other cars tested by HF did they have a/c

[FergusM]

I will try and remember to touch there (carefully) first time I get car heatred up. Car going back in to Menzies on Monday to have the dash rattle looked at (2nd attempt to fix) and if it is hot I'll get them to comment on that...and will also be asking about sound of rushing water when cold.

[Mamoura]

Sorry, I can't comment on that. I asked for a letter from them stating what they'd found with my wife's Cooper S, and also the results of the investigation which has led them [MINI, I suppose] to their position that this is an acceptable design issue. I've been told that all the data from the 3 cars went to the factory for further checking, and that I'm the only one complaining about this issue...

The head of servicing [the guy that burnt himself] has been on leave and I'll chase him up asap. He seemed very understanding, but maybe there's a 'stance' now on this issue. I noticed that customer service went in a few days from being willing to discuss the issue, including potentially talking to the dealer about a car with a/c, to a total 'shut down'. That's your car, it's fine, we know best, b*g off!

[Mamoura]

Thanks FergusM! I'm using the pc at my wife's work in Glasgow just now and she keeps looking in to find out what the new posts are... We'll be running back along the M8 in a wee while and I know that by the airport flyover the windows will be open to cool off. Sometimes not very pleasant around that area as many will know!

[AndyP & Lenore]

No a/c or just manual a/c I think most peeps on here will have a car with the air con either manual or auto.

the other cars tested by HF did they have a/c

Like Fi say's, I can't see HF's being able to lay their hands on 4 cars with NO AIR CON at all. I would have thought most folk would go for (at the very least) manual air con.

Mamoura, are you sure you don't have any air con at all? Did you spec the Chilli pack? If so, you do have manual air con.

A.:confused:

[KenL]

As I posted on MINI2, this heat does not seem to be there on my R56 Cooper.

[KenL]

I don't think this has anything to do with having or not having AC. It just sounds like a pipe carrying hot water or engine air is routed badly.

[AndyP & Lenore]

.... It just sounds like a pipe carrying hot water or engine air is routed badly.

Hmmmmmm...[thinks] Could this cause the sound of rushing water perchance?

A.:confused:

[FergusM]

So checked the car twice, once after wife came back with it from gym and this morning when I got to work...on both occasions I could not feel any hot spot ?

....only thing is both were realtively short journeys (10-15mins) so I will try to get it heated up a bit more and will let you know.

[Mamoura]

My wife specifically asked for no a/c, and also decided no chili pack on the new S, opting to spend the cash on the auto box instead.

All [inc Fairbairn] agree it's a badly routed pipe from the engine but it's strange that some cars aren't heating up...

[FergusM]

I should also add that I permanently run with Air con on (unless windows open)....so that might be masking it. I will try to remember to switch it off.

[FergusM]

Ooch !.... so went home the longer route last night, and plastic still not that hot, definitely some heat in it but not silly hot. So decided to poke my finger up behind the plastic to see where heat coming from and touched a roasting hot metal pipe, well I think it was a pipe, did not have my finger on it for long as it was burning...ooch.

So I completely agree that there is something there and think it is just that I've not had that long drives in the car to find it before hand. Car in to Menzies on Monday and I will get the technician to put his hand down there and comment on it while out demonstrating the rattle from the storage compartment... I'll post up his comments.

Pretty stupid design routing a roasting hot pipe into the cabin and only shielding it with a wee bit of plastic.

[korky]

The same panel in my car was roasty-toasty after a 20 minute drive home from work last night. I have no, I repeat no, absolutely no air-con either. I did contemplate it this time (none on the last mini, either), but then I contemplated all the other things I could do with £660 in my pocket and the windows rolled down! Easy decision in the glorious Kingdom of Fife with our pure, clean air (mostly!). And the standard air vent fan thingies are mighty efficient as long as you crank the stereo up to mask the noise!

[AndyP & Lenore]

My wife specifically asked for no a/c, and also decided no chili pack on the new S, opting to spend the cash on the auto box instead.

All [inc Fairbairn] agree it's a badly routed pipe from the engine but it's strange that some cars aren't heating up...

Woo hoooooo!!!:D :D :D A fellow Auto box owner.:cool: We're a small community. In fact I think this is the very first time I've come across someone on NMS who also has a Cooper S auto.:cool:

We're off to recce our Heart Of The Borders run today or tomorrow, so I'll check to see if we get all hot in the footwell also.;)

A.:D

[Mamoura]

Head of servicing at Harry Fairbairn is back from leave and on the case! All the cars he checked had the same fault and he is totally on our side for a fix, or as they call it a 'quality enhancement'. Does that mean they never get things wrong, just make them better?

He's also asking, again, for a technical reply to me re the issue, in writing from MINI/BMW...

More later.

[Craig]

That's good news, at least it's going in the right direction.

I had to fight for a good few weeks to get one of my problems looked at as they said it wasn't a fault and it's now one of the most common faults in the earlier cars... :eek: ;) :D

[Mamoura]

Had a call from Service Manager this morning.
BMW/MINI have told him NOT to touch the car in any way - the factory are investigating the issue and will refer back to him in due course.

May I suggest that every owner that has recognised this issue contact their dealer as a number of us have already? It may be that a certain number of complaints have to be recorded before the factory take this as a priority. I've come across that with petitions to authorities before - the computers 'flag up' when a specific number is reached.

Thanks!

[FergusM]

I'll report it to Menzies on Monday

[AndyP & Lenore]

Had a wee jaunt up to Edinburgh today.

When we got back I (rather stupidly, considering all the posts here) stuck my hand up behind this trim in the passenger foot well.

Yooooowwzzzzzaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! That gets hot. Very hot indeed. And if I'd left my hand there for more than a millisecond I'd have a burn mark to prove it.

However, I'm not sure this is a fault. It's certainly a design fault, but not necessarily an actual fault with the vehicle requiring a fix. To be honest, we haven't noticed any extreme heat pumping out down there so if hadn't been for Manoura's post, we'd have been blissfully unaware. I guess because we have air con we've been keeping the car cool over the summer so haven't noticed any heat emanating from that area.

It's not something I feel the need to complain about to a dealer to be honest. If I was going to complain about that on the basis of it being a design fault it would be one of a number of things; Sun roof blinds (Square peg, round hole!), fabric of non-leather parts of half leather seats, no engine temperature gauge on the dash..... etc.

A.;)

[M3 GHW]

Hi,

After a two hour drive back home on saturady night, i checked the footwell panel and it was hand hot. however i reached below this panel and the pipe was very 'burny' hot. My car is a launch car (56 plate) so id guess this could be on all models:confused: . i too think its maybe a design fault lack of insulation or something.

G

[FergusM]

Well..ran up to Menzies from Hamilton, no air con on...and the panel was not that hot. The pipe behind it would probably be roasting but the outside afetr 45 minutes was still fine... so did not report as an issue. I had planned to show technician when out demonstrating the rattle from dash but nothing there to really complain about...

Still think it is a design issue rather than fault, and does sound liek BMW aware of issue anyway..

[vintageb3]

OK...This is crazy!

If I asked five people from NMS to go jump in a river...how many would?

BMW tell you not to touch the pipe as it is very HOT and you will get burned...and what is the very first thing all of you do at the first operchanceity?

Yup...ain't no rocket surgeons in here are there?

mark

[Craig]

OK...This is crazy!

If I asked five people from NMS to go jump in a river...how many would?

BMW tell you not to touch the pipe as it is very HOT and you will get burned...and what is the very first thing all of you do at the first operchanceity?

Yup...ain't no rocket surgeons in here are there?

mark


I haven't touched it Mark, too frightened something will fall off... ;)

[illegalhunter]

iam scared to check mine its a certainty mine red hot roll on 23rd sept

[Mamoura]

Just back from a trip and found a letter [extract below] from MINI UK behind the door;

"...the vehicle was performing to its intended design specification at the date of inspection. Your feedback has been noted by the Technical Manager of MINI UK, and a report has been passed onto the MINI Production Plant detailing the findings with respect of the heater radiator cover."

I'll be following this up tomorrow....