Joke ?

[GP 1536]

Well it seems that I have offended some people on here.Unfortunately,because of my job,I have been away for the past few days and can't actually remember the 'joke' I posted.I assume it was the one about the play on words (or word)with a certain Islamic feastival.As that thread is now closed I am unable to repond to the comments made on there regarding this.So I have to start a new thread.

I am sorry if anyone is upset by the post.

What I won't do is apologise for my opinions with regards to religion.Being an Agnost I find ALL religions to be narrow-minded and also detrimental to society.Whether it be any of the Abrahamic faiths,polytheisist or dualist faiths,I hold with equal contempt.I find that people who follow religion are deluded,easily lead and have no sense of free-thinking,and I find them highly offensive with their preaching,their hubristic higher moral grounds and their inability to take any criticism given to them,claiming it be blasphemous or 'racist' (For your info.Islam is not a race,it is a religion,therefore it is not racist to criticise it).These are just defence mechanism preached by the followers in order to to protect their delusions.

I also hold the same contempt for Atheists.

These are MY views and MY view alone.Not the views of the other NMS members,or the views of the Scottish population as a whole,but MY views.And I am allowed to air my views as we live in a culture of freedom of speech.

Now,if anyone would like to challenge my intelligence by being pedantic and judging me on a hastily written post due to time constraints,with a couple of typos,then I'm happy to debate. :)

As I've said before,I'm sorry if anyone has been offended.

Finally.To clarify on what I said about Jon Smeaton getting his hole,this was not a joke.I was being completely serious.

Peace.

[GAJ]

Some apology!

I presume you mean that you are agnostic; I have no idea what an agnost could possibly be? However the diatribe following that claim would suggest that you fundamentally reject the existence of any deity, which makes your later claim to hold atheists in contempt rather confusing?

Surely an agnostic would accept that the existence of a god or deity is unknown and unknowable, therefor people have as much right to follow any particular religion of their choosing as others have to not do so. To suggest that people don't have this right, and are somehow deluded if they chose to follow a religious belief is surely as narrow-minded an opinion as a follower of a particular theology claiming that their view is the only truth?

[AndyP & Lenore]

<<<<<<Stands back and awaits KJ's interjection with eager anticipation.

Oh, and sorry if this offends you GP1536, but like GAJ says your post is so full of double standards and contradictions it beggars disbelief.

A.:confused:

[Bazthemod]

This is all pretty boring, can we not all go back to some light hearted/fun topics which make this forum a nice place to visit? :confused::(

[X30YES]

This is all pretty boring, can we not all go back to some light hearted/fun topics which make this forum a nice place to visit? :confused::(
I agree ............some things are better left alone ,are they not !!!

[Big Gordy]

Quick:eek: someone lock this before it spirals out of control:( Why we have to bring this onto the forum I'll never know:confused: Live and let live is what I say:D

[Scottie]

jeez how interesting could this thread become.

How easy would it be to say something you regret.

NMS is not the place to discuss this type of thing.

Because as sure as eggs is eggs you just know KJ will rise to this and not ignore it.

Some mod delete the thread

[Burple]

<<<<<<Stands back and awaits KJ's interjection with eager anticipation.

A.:confused:


..erm.. that may not be possible, as KJ appears to be suffering from some bannination issues...

[AndyP & Lenore]

..erm.. that may not be possible, as KJ appears to be suffering from some bannination issues...

Oh dear.:eek: So it seems. I have to admit, putting his "Final Warning" in his signature strip was asking for trouble.:rolleyes:

A.:D

[Burple]

So.. you don't know if you should believe in a god or not (agnostic) because it can't be proven, but you have equal contempt for those who either do (theists) as those who don't (athiests) believe?

Fortunately in this world people have the right to be as deluded as they like, one way or another. The world would be a dull place if we couldn't all have a quiet laugh at / pity the religious nutjobs / godless heathens wouldn't it? ;)

[GP 1536]

I presume you mean that you are agnostic; I have no idea what an agnost could possibly be? However the diatribe following that claim would suggest that you fundamentally reject the existence of any deity, which makes your later claim to hold atheists in contempt rather confusing?

OK.To clarify.I am not denying the existence of a deity (God or Gods),but what I'm saying is that I reject the religions.The religions say that a superhuman or supernatural being is controlling natural forces and human destiny and should be worshipped by us(or something like that).Now,this may be true,but we don't know for sure.To me,being agnostic (thank you for pointing out the typo),this is the unknown,the undiscovered,yet to be proven.But to the religions,it is proven,incontrovertibly ! I find this kind of thinking arrogant.

Now.Atheist believe that there is/are no God/Gods.They claim that God does not exsist.It is not there.Again this is unproven and their claim is also arrogant.Which means I hold both theists and Atheists in equal contempt.

Confusing,I know.But once you get the hang of it,it's quite straight forward.


Surely an agnostic would accept that the existence of a god or deity is unknown and unknowable, therefor people have as much right to follow any particular religion of their choosing as others have to not do so. To suggest that people don't have this right, and are somehow deluded if they chose to follow a religious belief is surely as narrow-minded an opinion as a follower of a particular theology claiming that their view is the only truth?

I'm not suggesting that they don't have a right.They have every right to believe in what they want.But this doesn't mean that everyone has to go along with it,like me.It is my opinion that they are deluded,they will obviously think differently,and that is their opinion.

[vintageb3]

OK.To clarify.I am not denying the existence of a deity

But to the religions,it is proven,incontrovertibly !

Actually don't know if that is accurate. Christians have faith...when you have faith...you don't need all that much evidence.

Can't speak for other religions...since I've never been anything other than a Christian...but I reckon faith is what keeps every religion alive.

Only ever been a Christian....but as the saying goes...I will try anything once...:eek: :D

I read your posts above...and to be honest...its the nearest thing to a religion that I've had to endure for a while :eek: :D

Look...just ignore me...I'm on my own long personal journey re religion...I'm having a bast-ard of a time working out what the fcuk I should be thinking at the best of times. :eek:

mark

[macblob]

I am happy believing in no religions or gods, and personally don't care what anyone else believes in either (whatever is right for them is good for me) so you can please yourself and hold me in contempt if that pleases you because I really don't give to crap either way :)

[GP 1536]

I am happy believing in no religions or gods, and personally don't care what anyone else believes in either (whatever is right for them is good for me) so you can please yourself and hold me in contempt if that pleases you because I really don't give to crap either way :)


I wouldn't hold you in comtempt as your not being arrogant or preaching about it.Which is the way it should be.

[AeroJonny]

I am happy believing in no religions or gods, and personally don't care what anyone else believes in either (whatever is right for them is good for me) so you can please yourself and hold me in contempt if that pleases you because I really don't give to crap either way :)

what he said goes for me too;)

[Scottie]

what he said goes for me too;)


I am happy believing in no religions or gods, and personally don't care what anyone else believes in either (whatever is right for them is good for me) so you can please yourself and hold me in contempt if that pleases you because I really don't give to crap either way :)


you say that. I would have said that my dad would say the exact same thing/

However I can tell you in the last couple of months his life he drew great comfort in the belief that there was a god. I think until you are facing certain death you don't really know how your mind will react or what your thought process on this subject truely will be.

[AeroJonny]

i had a discussion for a couple of hours with my dad about this last night. He's pretty religious and I'm completely not and we both really want to sit down with say a vicar or a priest and talk about it.

[Scottie]

i had a discussion for a couple of hours with my dad about this last night. He's pretty religious and I'm completely not and we both really want to sit down with say a vicar or a priest and talk about it.


h'mm could be an idea. It is ok for people to say "Oh I don't believe in God" maybe they should say they are uncertain what to believe in.

Cause I can tell you this:

I know 3 families closely who lost children in Dunblane you try telling the families there is not a God. I also know the family who son got injured they were Jehovah's Witnesses now they allowed their son to receive blood in order to save his life. They were thrown out of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Again until you face something really hard like death you don't know how you will think the same can be said for people that were religious and lost a son or daughter who end up not believing in God. It is something you shouldn't be flippant about cause it will come round a bite your bum I know it did for us as a family.

[GAJ]

I wouldn't hold you in comtempt as your not being arrogant or preaching about it.Which is the way it should be.

Surely though you have put forward your beliefs in an arrogant preaching manner, without any thought or concern about whether your remarks may cause offence? I think you should try to learn to have respect for other people and their beliefs.

Just because you have a right to free speech, it isn't always the best course of action to exercise it.

Remember the ethic of reciprocity... confusing I know, but once you get the hang of it, it really is quite straight forward!:rolleyes:

[GP 1536]

Very good Gaj,very good :)

[vintageb3]

I think the Japanese cover all the bases:

They are born Shinto...live and marry as Christians...and are buried as Buddhists.

Clever folks the Japanese...

mark

[AndyP & Lenore]

I think the Japanese cover all the bases:

They are born Shinto...live and marry as Christians...and are buried as Buddhists.

Clever folks the Japanese...

mark

Oh aye... how you figure this then?

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/AndyPandLenore/pic062701.jpg

A.;) :D

[vintageb3]

That's obviously not Japanese Kanji...its Korean Han-gul if i'm not mistaken

Get up early in the morning young man...if thou needeth to catch me-eth out!

OK then...I admit none of them are good swimmers...

mark

[AndyP & Lenore]

That's obviously not Japanese Kanji...its Korean Han-gul if i'm not mistaken

Get up early in the morning young man...if thou needeth to catch me-eth out!

OK then...I admit none of them are good swimmers...

mark

Jeesey Peeps! is there anything you DONT know?:eek: :D ;)

[vintageb3]

And whilst on the subject of the Korean language...do you know Andrew that there is no "F' sound in the spoken Korean language? It's true!

I was going to learn Korean...but in the end I couldn't be ucked with the hassle.

:eek: :D

mark

[vintageb3]

Jeesey Peeps! is there anything you DONT know?:eek: :D ;)

I obviously don't know when to stop typing drivel...all though it is true drivel!:eek:

mark

[monkimagic]

So many clever people with big funcy words an all......... but quite frankly its all ****e and it dont belong on here.

This is where you wanna be,

http://www.icq.com/icqchat/index.php?cat_id=7

I thought it was very christian like for me to go out of my way and find it for all:cool:

[vintageb3]

God Bless mate! :D

mark

[AeroJonny]

Again until you face something really hard like death you don't know how you will think the same can be said for people that were religious and lost a son or daughter who end up not believing in God. It is something you shouldn't be flippant about cause it will come round a bite your bum I know it did for us as a family.

I'm not flippant about this at all, i think that's shown by wanting to sit down and talk with a member of the clergy and being completely open minded to other people's beliefs. I wouldn't dream of trying to convince anyone that god or a higher being doesn't exist as i dont think it at all fair - other people believe in different things and i respect that wholeheartedly. I'm just expressing a view to which I've given a great deal of thought, this isn't something I've concocted just to provoke an argument.

One of my cousins was in an extremely bad pileup last year and has only recently regained the use of his legs. His family are Jehovah's Witnesses and they allowed him to have blood, you're right Fiona - it's not really a choice for a parent in that situation. In my view religion is a set of man-made guidelines and i dont think something like that is a good enough reason for a parent to deny their child something which will keep them alive.

I typed more here but I deleted it as I could go on forever and more to the point I don't think this is either the time or the place to be having a discussion like this. Too many people could take offence, it's a recipe for disaster and I think that the moderators would do well to lock or delete this thread...in effect it's just a continuation of another one which was locked, and it was locked for a reason.

[The Dogfather]

The only problem that I have with religions is the wars that are carried out in their name.

Personally I reckon every time there's a bit of a beef, the head of each religion has to compete in an ITV Gladiator style contest. Simple no wars, plus the Pope would soon be replaced by someone a bit younger and fitter, and as a result we might see some newer ideas.

Right I'm off to see Tony Blair about an Israeli/Palestinian "Its a knockout".

[Big Gordy]

Right I'm off to see Tony Blair about an Israeli/Palestinian "Its a knockout".

PMSL:D I like your way of thinking Vidal;) :p :D

[GAJ]

I don't see any reason to lock the thread. Nothing the matter with good healthy debate IMO! As long as people have respect und understanding for others beliefs, and think before they reply, any topic is fair game in my eyes.

Personally, I wouldn't consider locking the thread unless people were being deliberitately rude, insulting, aggressive or offensive in any other way. I think to do so would be heavy handed.

Remember, if you don't want to take part in a thread, you don't have to read it. As for this being the wrong place - it is OT&B.

If I've missed anything and anyone does strongly feel that this thread contains insulting or offensive material and should be locked please PM me.

[Burple]

Verrry interesting thread...

Ok.. here's a question for you all then.
Loosely based on the knowledge I have on christianity...

(disclaimer: this post is not a flame starter, just contains some honest questions. If you're going to get offended and abuse me, please use email ;))

God is infallible, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent (all powerful, sees all, is everywhere). Priests are working in the name of god (ie his representatives). Now consider any story you have read about / watched on news in the media where priests / vicars (or whatever) use the power of their faith to corrupt, embark on illicit sexual affairs, molest innocent TRUSTING children, embezzle money (or just see any of the big American Evangelical churches, where the 'leaders' have huge mansions cars etc). If religion really is the great start and end of all things.. WHY does this sort of thing happen?

-Is god saying that this sort of behaviour is ok by him / her? (Since these people do their 'work' in his / her name?)
-If he/she's omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, he/she KNOWS it's going on and does nothing?
Oh yeah, the 'they'll suffer for their sins in the afterlife' line is all very well, but really? Prove it.
What about all the sincere god-loving families who have children born with deformities or disabilities? why does an innocent child deserve to be born this way?
If religions are NOT a man made thing, put in place to control the weak minded, and make money from the misguided fears or a terrible / beautiful after life, why so many gods which are - if you listen to their advocates - the 'one true' god?
Why are there so many contradictions in the bible?
One more word - Dinosaurs. Actually no, forget that.. that brings up the whole Intelligent design v evolution thing.. ;):D

[macblob]

Amen to that :D

[GP 1536]

The reason for the 1st post on this thread was in response to some of the comments made on another thread which has been closed,therefore I am unable to reply there.

And one of the reasons for posting my views is that religions constantly criticise others who do not follow their beliefs (e.g The 1st commandment of 10 in Christianity,Islams and Christianitys views on homosexuality,women,abortion,marriage etc),but if you criticise them,or poke fun at them,they get on their high horse and preach to you on how you are demonising their beliefs and should be sent to the depths of Hades.

Pot-Kettle-Black

If you dish it out you should be able to take it.

So there.

[Burple]

If you dish it out you should be able to take it.

So there.

But then you're lowering yourself to the same level, and proving yourself to be the godless heathen in need of redemption, no?

They (I'm well aware of trying NOT to make this sound like an 'us v them' thing, cos I'm not taking sides) could even take it to the next level.. You own a Mini, you're a member of a Mini oriented site. Therefore you're worshipping a false idol, and are in more need of their 'help and understanding' than anyone else. They ridicule you for your beliefs. whatever they are...

Really, try having a rational conversation with a truly religious zealot. It's not so easy as "ha ha you think there's a god, hah, you idiot."
any argument you use yourself has a flipside to someone... anyone well versed in the theory of their religion is far more intelligent than you give them credit for.

Have a look at this lot.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
Yeah, they look like a bunch of bible bashing hicks. every one of the family has a very intelligent insight into what they're doing..
you can't pigeonhole people by their beliefs..

[Gismo]

Walks in whistling :eek: makes a hasty exit :rolleyes:

[GAJ]

Pot-Kettle-Black

If you dish it out you should be able to take it.

So there.

See, that's where I disagree - "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" as Gandhi said; or to paraphrase - "Two wrongs don't make a right" as my mum said!:rolleyes:

[AndyP & Lenore]

See, that's where I disagree - "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" as Gandhi said; or to paraphrase - "Two wrongs don't make a right" as my mum said!:rolleyes:

"Sticks and stones will break your bones but names......"

I'll get my coat.:o

A.;)

[Burple]

If you dish it out you should be able to take it.



Yes.. the key part of that..*should*
Unfortunately if you try that reasoning in this fine world of ours you get:

Someone dishes it out, you hand some back to them, they start a Crusade / Inquisition / Jihad on you, and there's no way you can dissuade them because they have invoked the name of the deity of the month on you and millions of people die. Nyah nyah we're right, we have weapons in the name of a god.

..I should say that not every one with religious beliefs will act like this, but the ones who do generally have the power and / or charisma to make threats into a practical way to spend a decade..

Just look at the current US administration...

[Coop]

This is a pretty heavy thread for a car website.... I have only just come across it but I feel the need to offer my opinion. I have my beliefs and if anyone should ask about them I will happily discuss.

This is the way I feel things should be, let everyone believe what they want and if they want to find out more then ask intelligernt questions.

Thats me for now, Grant

[Crombers]

Oops sorry, wrong door (move, quick :eek: )