GRS Intercooler Upgrade

[ELFMAN]

After my usual investigations, I'm “almost certainly” about to go for a GRS Intercooler (and possibly a Superchips Bluefin JCW Remap). I've heard and read many good things about the GRS, but would appreciate any NMS folks' opinions on either or both of the above.

I know the Intercooler will do some good in conjunction with the JCW engine, but will the Bluefin be worth the money (I know £££'s are all relative depending what you're looking for and am not expecting miracles from the Chip). Any thoughts (especially from you 'serious tuners' out there) would be most welcome. Ta!

[Sweeney]

Better off with MTH over bluefin, although would be even better going to someone like angeltuning etc and get a real time live map on a rolling road

[ELFMAN]

Yeah Sweeney, Superchips are a bit vague about the Bluefin, no proper figures etc, which puts me right off...... all this 'up to' 10% torque and 'up to' 8bhp....This is after I requsted specifics for the JCW 210, have mailed them again, but if nothing detailed comes back, I'm forgetting it. Rolling Road is def. a better way of remapping, I just like the idea of the Bluefin 'cos it was shooty-in! Where's Angeltuning? Also places like Dastek would probably be best way of setting up 'post Intercooler Upgrade' - then they're working directly with your car, and not using 'generic' or 'near enough' parameters. Cheers anyway. More folks, More!!

[Sweeney]

as far as i know, bluefin only works on a clean map... Those with the 210 jcw kit have a JCW map installed im sure as do us soundkit owners so we cannot use it.

Yeah dastek, angeltuning etc live remap would be best option... More bang for your buck that way! :D

[ELFMAN]

No, apparently there IS one for the JCW 210 - according to Nick from Lohen and Superchips themselves. I wasn't aware of one until I started asking. It's all a bit vague, as Superchips don't actually have a set of figures for the JCW 210........ so how do they know what it does then?

Surely if Superchips had remapped a JCW they'd have a Rolling Road power curve etc taken when they'd done it. There's the rub.

[Sweeney]

Ah i wasn't aware of a compatible one as i looked into it this time last year and it turned out bluefin wouldn't work. Aye exactly, if someones boasting power increases, they'll be wanting to prove/show off the results and not be so "general" and "rough" with figures.

One thing worth considering is that you tell MTH what mods etc you have and they build a map to suit, superchips is a stock map and isn't customised (afaik).

[weefossy]

Euan, this is becoming one very special little car, that is certainly not just for Xmas. I'd expect both of you to be getting a telegram from the Queen some day :D

Crombers.....don't say "any day soon" ;)

[Scottie]

Here is a idea leave the car the way it is.:D

[Sweeney]

Aye fiona, how very fitting for you to say something like that :o :D

[Scottie]

Aye fiona, how very fitting for you to say something like that :o :D
aye it's the old dug for the hard road and the pup for the pavement Sweeney my boy. I'm not young enough to know everything.:p :p

I learnt my lesson on how best to ruin a car by engine upgrades.:rolleyes:

[Sweeney]

Haha i have also learned how to ruin a car, no engine mods involved mind you! :D Many ways to do it ;)

[Scottie]

Haha i have also learned how to ruin a car, no engine mods involved mind you! :D Many ways to do it ;)

Sweeney my lad unless you have reached w/o 3+ cars don't even go there.:rolleyes:

[Sweeney]

Plenty time yet! Like father like son as they say ;) (hes running out of fingers and toes to count them all on! :o )

[ELFMAN]

aye it's the old dug for the hard road and the pup for the pavement Sweeney my boy. I'm not young enough to know everything.:p :p

I learnt my lesson on how best to ruin a car by engine upgrades.:rolleyes:

I take it you mean the Zeemaxed Beast? Stands to reason.... Squeezing 270+bhp from the 1.6 Chrysler lump was never going to give you the most relaxing time was it? Anyway, I thought it was the Bodykit & Suspension (Scrape! Bounce!) that caused more probs was it not? You pays your money......The intercooler is just the latest “Weakest Link” I'm getting around to, getting the air charge temperature down to maximise the JCW upgrade. Don't reckon the engine will need more doing to it - it's quick enough for my talents! Now TYRES..... that's another thing....

[Craig]

Now TYRES..... that's another thing....

oh God no.... not the tyres thing again.... you nearly had a meltdown the last time you were trying to decide... :eek: ;) :D

[vintageb3]

Now TYRES..... that's another thing....

Maybe you should stopped that Rover on the Thistle Run and asked him about tyres?

I reckon the guy worked for tyreservices the way he pulled away from every halt sign!

I think you should stick with what you have...errr..like new ones i mean. You seem to be happy enough with them?

mark

[Gorbash12346]

i'd stay away from the bluefin as they have released 2 versions for the fiesta st and both have been proven back to back to give absolutlely no gain in power, fuel economy is never tested but thats not what your after anyway is it?;)

as for dastek i've had very poor experience of them and tbh i'd steer clear of there too although that might have been because there frontman paul was more interested in securing big money customers than letting me know what was going on with my car after i sat up in their dalgety bay outfit from 8am through to 8.30pm at night

the car was booked in for a unichip to be fitted and mapped about a month prior to that which required a £50 deposit and upon arriving i waited till half 12 before anyone actually even took my car into the workshop then after hours of asking to speak to paul to see what was happening (it was now 6pm) and him completely ignoring me so he could talk to other potential customers i decided sod him and went in through the shutters to speak to the guy who was working on my car he told me they had had issues getting my revcounter to work again but it was all ok now and they where just taking it in to map it..... hours later... ok heres your keys and heres what you gained from spending £440 on a unichip and taking the day off to come up here and sit for 12 hours...
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/Gorbash12346/DSC00023.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/Gorbash12346/DSC00021.jpg
this was after adding a miltek 4-2-1 a custom made 200 cell sports cat system with oxygen sensors in place pre and post cat a piperx viper with custom made hardpiping and cold air feed direct to the front grille and a ford wds switch to 97 ron fuel minimum
so he explains it's going to be more responsive and smoother and use less fuel... so i drove home and now my mil light is on and flashing all the time so i thought check manual it says stop driving immediately so i thought pffft ok so it's doing something... drove on and just about to cross the forth road bridge and the car starts stuttering no power doing kangaroo petrol stuff... not amused so drove home then in the morning phoned up and said whats going on they checked it over and said nothings wrong even though i took my plugs out and they where carbon coated and my car stank of unburnt fuel

so i got a full refund and it removed from my car and it still doesn't run right due to the lack of a remap but i can't do a lot about that now that i've already bought all the other parts:mad:

anyway i believe paul has started up a new business of his own and all i'll say is good luck to him as if he treats all his customers like that i'd reckon he won't be around too long

apologies for the punctuation :confused:

[Gorbash12346]

so is mister leung on here owner of sk03 dyp? zeemax beastie?

[vintageb3]

Gorbash...you have a PM

mark

[Gorbash12346]

pm rite back at ya ;)

[ELFMAN]

No Craig, not going to do the 'tyre thing' again, wrong thread! Will just do my intercooler and forget the remapping. It either won't make much difference or will cost £300.00 and b*gger the whole thing up.....

[ELFMAN]

GRS INTERCOOLER ORDERED! (On Holiday next week, so, hopefully) get it on Tuesday, fit it on Wednesday...... blow it up on Thursday........

'G3 ELF' will be even COOLER from now on!

[Sweeney]

Says your looking at 8bhp more and if you went for the chargecooler would've been 16bhp but thats almost a grand lol :D

[ELFMAN]

Didn't think a Chargecooler was really necessary for my state of tune anyway - the Intercooler will do the job nicely, ta very much, and as you said, the Chargecooler's nearly £600 dearer. The money I 'saved' can pay for a good few fill-ups of 'V-Power'!

Just wanted the GRS intercooler so I can get rid of the diddy standard one and make the most of the JCW upgrade - I don't reckon the engine will be getting any more done to it for the forseeable future, if at all - it's quick enough for my needs. (Old F@rt!......where's me Werther's?)

[Sweeney]

No need to do anymore to it anyway ewan... Not as if your out racing with tom dick and harry ;)

[ELFMAN]

No need to do anymore to it anyway ewan... Not as if your out racing with tom dick and harry ;)

Yeah, I fell out with them ages ago!!! :D :D :D Now it's Marky C, Jason and Crombers:D :cool: :D

[Sweeney]

Ah well no competition there then lol ;)

[Aberdeen Al]

I'd buy an oil catch can & snoot boots to get the best out of your GRS intercooler ;)

[ELFMAN]

Al - to quote Midge Ure - “it means nothing to me....Oh Vienna”. Oil Catch tank I MIGHT figure out eventually, but 'Snoot Boots'? Sounds like something a cat freak buys for their pet in cold weather....... Please explain! I'm not totally lacking knowledge, but there's obviously a gap here! TA.

[MartinSullivan]

"snoot boots" are the black rubber bellows that join each end of the MCS intercooler to the 'snoots'. GTT do some nice ones that are shaped differently and give a better seal.

The oil catch can does exactly what it says on the tin, again GTT do a nice one, with a little wee dipstick so you can check how much oil has been "caught" and prevented from entering and contaminating the intercooler core, which dramatically reduces its cooling efficientcy.(ie reducing power).

Also by trapping the oil you are stopping it from entering the combustion chambers, where the effect would be to reduce the octane of the fuel as it mixes with it . Lowering the octane results in earlier onset of pinking; this reduces power combined with much greater risk of engine damage!

[Aberdeen Al]

"snoot boots" are the black rubber bellows that join each end of the MCS intercooler to the 'snoots'. GTT do some nice ones that are shaped differently and give a better seal.

The oil catch can does exactly what it says on the tin, again GTT do a nice one, with a little wee dipstick so you can check how much oil has been "caught" and prevented from entering and contaminating the intercooler core, which dramatically reduces its cooling efficientcy.(ie reducing power).

Also by trapping the oil you are stopping it from entering the combustion chambers, where the effect would be to reduce the octane of the fuel as it mixes with it . Lowering the octane results in earlier onset of pinking; this reduces power combined with much greater risk of engine damage!

I agree!!!

The snoot boots from GTT are £49 + VAT and the oil catch can is £85 + VAT - well worth it mate.

[ELFMAN]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh....... now I know. Are the 'Boots' the same type of thing that Lohen are selling? Alta make them in silicone.

How's the Oil Catch can fitted? is it 'shooty in'? Just a thought - If there's a danger of oil entering the engine this way and b*ggering things up, why isn't there one fitted as standard? You know how paranoid BMW are......... Have there been instances of this? Or is there more of a problem with bigger intercoolers?

[Aberdeen Al]

The oil catch can is easily fitted to the car via 1 x bolt and piped up using rubber hose. It only took me 5 x mins and I'm no DIY'er :o !

[ELFMAN]

GRS fitted. Car now going even better!

Lets hear it for COOOOOOOOOLLLLL AIR!

[Sweeney]

Did you get the catch can as well?

[ELFMAN]

Nope, not yet, I'm going to ask Graham at GRS what he thinks, as there's no mention of it as being necessary when I bought the Intercooler either from him or from Nick at Lohen. That's NOT to say I won't get one, as there WAS some evidence of oil kicking around the inlet and outlet either side of of the 'cooler when we removed the old one.

How does the can fit? Is there any drilling and tapping required? More info folks!

[Gorbash12346]

i believe all it does is stick a hose from the rocker cover crankcase breather to the catch tank which if i remember the pic correctly..... fidns pic looks like it mounts very easily

http://www.jscspeed.com/part_pictures/amp_catch_can_2.jpg

[Gorbash12346]

http://www.jscspeed.com/part_pictures/alta_v2_tmic.jpgif it wasn't for seeing the state of one of alta's normal intercooler surrounds after a year or two i'd have thought this would be good

[ELFMAN]

Thanks Gorbash, helps to see a picture of the Can - I'll def. look into it seriously. I was afraid it'd need a hole frilled somewhere!

[Gismo]

I fitted my can in about 20 mins, no drilling required, but, you do have to remove a nut and trim some pipes.
So far, no oil recovered, but, i'm hardly driving the car at the moment :rolleyes:

[ELFMAN]

Cheers guys, when I get a mo', I'll se what I can do.

[ELFMAN]

Here's what Graham at GRS had to say Re. fitting Oil Catch Can:

“I've asked a couple of tuners about these oil catch tanks, both said its
better to have a little oil in the intercooler as this helps lubricate the
supercharger!!, if not it'll run dry, so to me no, I'd rather wash my
intercooler or charge cooler out once in a while....”

As I mentioned, I wondered why BMW didn't have a similar system, and that GRS/Lohen didn't have it as a 'must have'. My mate Bill, who helped me fit the Intercooler (and who built his own - bitchin' - Mini engines for years) first brought up the Supercharger lubrication idea when I phoned him the other night, so it seems there's two ways of looking at this.

Me? I've decided NOT to fit the Can. If the Supercharger is designed to run with a bit of lubrication, without it, it'll arguably run hotter, therefore the air charge will be hotter, negating some of the effect of the better intercooler. Even just from a 'Wear & Tear' aspect, it makes sense - which is maybe why BMW, even on the JCW upgrade, don't have an Oil Catch Can. So my motor will remain 'Can Free'.

[goodingm]

Any update re differenc ewit hthe new intercooler fitted,is it worth the cash.

[ELFMAN]

The car's going great - but it was anyway. 'Difference'? Not that simple....the car sounds and feels a wee bit more 'serious', but there's nothing shattering. I've lost the slightly 'sluggish' feeling which the car used to have in the first few minutes after re-starting when it had been driven hard and then parked - so it deals with 'heat soak' better, which shows it's working, and on Stoney's recent 'Picnic Run' (warm day) it went like stink all day.

The point of the GRS (and any uprated) Intercooler is that it'll MAINTAIN the performance better than the standard 'cooler. I was advised by Graham at GRS (and he makes them) that it's NOT worth doing on a standard 'S', but is good for those with uprated/reduced pulleys with higher boost. It's worth about 8bhp by itself, which isn't a lot (and arguably not really noticable on the road when you have 200+ BHP already), but you then have to take into account what you WON'T LOSE through heat soak/hot air charge etc etc....

As I understand it, the higher the boost, the higher the air charge temperature (it's getting compressed more - German for supercharger 'Kompressor'), so the greater the need to cool it before it enters the engine. An uprated Intercooler deals with the heat better, and engines LOVE cold/dense air, so you'll maximise any engine mods. As a 'performance' mod on it's own on a STANDARD car IMHO - don't bother, you'd be better spending the dosh (£412.00 incl. delivery from LOHEN - Nick's very helpful) on a good manifold or system etc. But as a way of ensuring your tuned 'S' is performing to its maximum, I reckon it's a good call. Hope that's helped. My apologies if you didn't need the 'How it Works' lesson!!!!

[goodingm]

Elfman, THanks for update , I have the GTT 210 fitted and just about to add JCW airbox and will do the GTT insert hence why I am interested, sounds like my next mod , that and FSD shocks are on my list.

[Aberdeen Al]

Elfman, THanks for update , I have the GTT 210 fitted and just about to add JCW airbox and will do the GTT insert hence why I am interested, sounds like my next mod , that and FSD shocks are on my list.

Why don't you get the GTT CAI to match your 210 package? You won't be disappointed ;)