Shooting at Virginia Tech [Archive]

Burple

19th April 2007, 07:46 PM

quote:Originally posted by markyc

And the scary thing is it might not make any difference on how easy it might be to buy a gun of any sort in the States :disapprove::disapprove: Terrible tragedy and goodness only knows what the 'gunmans' motives were :disapprove:

Hey,but look on the positive side.. :disapprove:
It means that every religious nutjob outthere gets to spew forth their rants about how it's video games that are to blame for this sort of thing happening in America.. :mad:

Even more disturbing, I was reading on a US based site this morning that the Fred Phelps (and it's hard to type this while spitting venom) "church" are possibly planning to demonstrate at some of the murdered students' funerals. If you don't know who this guy is, google or Wiki the name. He is the pure refined essence of religion. :dead:

I also read yesterday a piece by another religious group the this (and other tragedies of this nature) take place because Evolution is taught in US schools, and not religion. the theory is that evolution teaches that we are an insignificant speck in the grand scale of everything, and that feeling of insignificance leads to violence.

That's the single most stupid thing I've heard for a while.
How about this version..
Teaching religion in schools leads to brainwashing of students. This braiwashing leads to feelings of moral superiority / self righteousness that leads to violence / ethnic cleansing. I know which one history supports.

It is indeed a tragedy that it happened at all. The guy was mentally ill, and no-one around picked up on the signals, or did anything about it if they did. Nobody can go blaming any factor except the fact he was so readily able to get his hands on guns.

If you can't get a gun, you can't shoot anyone.

Wul

19th April 2007, 08:13 PM

It is indeed a terrible tragedy - What scared me was the day after - bbc news presenters at the college had said some philosophy student had been quoted as saying he wished he or his tutor had had a gun so they could have taken him down first - it's that mind set that is gonna lead to the end of the world! Is it not better for all to take the guns off the minority than give them to the majority? :(

Big Col

19th April 2007, 08:43 PM

You guys are all forgetting, they need a "well regulated milita" should we go back and try to colonize them again. Frightening.

Wul

19th April 2007, 08:53 PM

quote:Originally posted by Big Col
You guys are all forgetting, they need a "well regulated milita" should we go back and try to colonize them again. Frightening.

We don't have enough guns for that!:p:disapprove:

Burple

19th April 2007, 09:38 PM

quote:Originally posted by Big Col
You guys are all forgetting, they need a "well regulated milita" should we go back and try to colonize them again. Frightening.

Jaysus, no!!

We got rid of all the crims to Australia, and all the religious zealots to the US. They're gone, best left where they are ;):p:D:D

Don't give them the idea to use boats to get back here! :D:D

The Dogfather

19th April 2007, 09:57 PM

quote:Originally posted by low_n_loud1

quote:Originally posted by Big Col
You guys are all forgetting, they need a "well regulated milita" should we go back and try to colonize them again. Frightening.

Jaysus, no!!

We got rid of all the crims to Australia, and all the religious zealots to the US. They're gone, best left where they are ;):p:D:D

Don't give them the idea to use boats to get back here! :D:D

Don't worry they're busy crusading in the middle east

Burple

19th April 2007, 10:01 PM

quote:Originally posted by Vidal Buffoon

Don't worry they're busy crusading in the middle east

<Zing!>

That wouldn't be nearly so amusing if it weren't so damn close to the truth!

Big Col

19th April 2007, 10:46 PM

Just as a quick note to our American friends that vist this this, please don't take any offence. Your gun control laws confuse us Brits a lil so we tend to mock them somewhat. Kinda the same thing you guys do with our mens love of wearing skirts. :)

Burple

19th April 2007, 11:04 PM

quote:Originally posted by Big Col
Just as a quick note to our American friends that vist this this, please don't take any offence. Your gun control laws confuse us Brits a lil so we tend to mock them somewhat. Kinda the same thing you guys do with our mens love of wearing skirts. :)

..and that thing you have where you think the Brits all have bad teeth cos you watch too many Hugh Grant films.. ;)

The Dogfather

19th April 2007, 11:30 PM

Gun control laws? What you can have a gun any gun as long as you have a credit card or are willing to wait a couple of days?

Hardly what could be described as 'controls' are they.

BJN

20th April 2007, 12:31 AM

Would tighter gun laws have stopped him?

I'm thinking Dunblane

Burple

20th April 2007, 12:58 AM

Possibly, possibly not.. you'd have to look at the statistics that compare the population figures Vs gun ownership between the UK and US to make any headway on that...
Personally I'll take my chances in THIS country.
There's FAR less chance of getting shot at cos you look the wrong way at someone in traffic.

Less guns = Less gun related crime.

AeroJonny

20th April 2007, 01:32 AM

quote:Originally posted by low_n_loud1

We got rid of all the crims to Australia...

Oi!!! I'm half Aussie!!!:mad::eek::blackeye::eek::blackeye:

And for the record...yes, my dad did come over on a boat ;);):p:D:cool:;)

zimbo

20th April 2007, 02:03 AM

Just ignore Low_n_loud1 hes just got a poker up his ass bout anyone who is'nt scottish :p

I mean i'm a good mate of his and he took ages to get used to me... I am from Zimbabwe my dad was scottish (from Dundee) and my mum was from cape town. :D 18 years this year that we arrived.

AndyP & Lenore

20th April 2007, 03:56 AM

I'm with LnL on this one. Less guns = less chance of getting shot. I know Dunblane happened and it could happen again - but I'd like to think the chances of it happening again are much slimmer, because of the strict gun laws in the UK.

Last time I was in the US (visiting Lenore's brother who has married out there), he took me to a gun range to fire off a few shots. I have to admit I loved it. The power rush of firing off a handgun was immense. I really enjoyed shooting at a paper target 10 meters away and seeing most of my shots miss, but the destructive power of these things is frightening - as shown on Monday's terrible events. It takes a rather sick person indeed to do what this guy did on Monday.

A:(

illegalhunter

20th April 2007, 04:01 AM

The 2nd amendment say you have the right to bare arms . No body can change the constitution in the USA

Big Col

20th April 2007, 04:06 AM

quote:Originally posted by deerslayer

The 2nd amendment say you have the right to bare arms . No body can change the constitution in the USA

Hmmm...

AndyP & Lenore

20th April 2007, 04:32 AM

quote:Originally posted by deerslayer

The 2nd amendment say you have the right to bare arms . No body can change the constitution in the USA

Well, clearly what can't be changed, should be changed.

A.

illegalhunter

20th April 2007, 04:32 AM

The blame lies with the cops who let this happen 2 hrs between the shootings . The tek should have been in lock down.This is a carbon copy of Columbine where the cops sat back for 2 hrs while 2 guys with auto weapons were on the rampage . Then they went in too late the damage was done. As for gun control , the 3 biggest lobby groups to the American Congress are OIL DENFENCE CONTRACTOR GUN LOBBY. These are the people who make the big donations for the race for the White House. When the handguns were banned over here ,target shooting was the fastest growing sport in the UK.The Govt bought back all legal firearms @ 95% of the brand new value, costing £137 m . Gun crime has rocketed since with illegal firearms . So what good did it do ? I had 5 legall handguns ,but i was tarred with same brush as T Hamilton, a suspected pedo. Guns dont fire themselfs. I have 7 guns in the USA @ my uncles house.There more guns in the USA than people 400million. You cant legislate for a lone gunman , if you tried to take the guns in the US THERE WOULD BE CIVIL WAR.

Scottie

20th April 2007, 04:53 AM

quote:Originally posted by low_n_loud1

Possibly, possibly not.. you'd have to look at the statistics that compare the population figures Vs gun ownership between the UK and US to make any headway on that...
Personally I'll take my chances in THIS country.
There's FAR less chance of getting shot at cos you look the wrong way at someone in traffic.

Less guns = Less gun related crime.

but your more likely to get stabbed to death over here.

Burple

20th April 2007, 05:12 AM

quote:Originally posted by zimbo

Just ignore Low_n_loud1 hes just got a poker up his ass bout anyone who is'nt scottish :p

I mean i'm a good mate of his and he took ages to get used to me... I am from Zimbabwe

Nah that was just cause yer a bawbag :p:p :D

quote:my dad was scottish (from Dundee) and my mum was from cape town. :D 18 years this year that we arrived.

An your STILL here! :D:D:D:D

Burple

20th April 2007, 05:14 AM

quote:Originally posted by deerslayer

The 2nd amendment say you have the right to bare arms . No body can change the constitution in the USA

Not to make light of the event, but this should be the sort they mean...

http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/jonfoote/dali/other/Beararms.jpg

Burple

20th April 2007, 05:16 AM

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop

quote:Originally posted by low_n_loud1

Possibly, possibly not.. you'd have to look at the statistics that compare the population figures Vs gun ownership between the UK and US to make any headway on that...
Personally I'll take my chances in THIS country.
There's FAR less chance of getting shot at cos you look the wrong way at someone in traffic.

Less guns = Less gun related crime.

but your more likely to get stabbed to death over here.

Strangely enough.. I almost typed that after the above too.. 8)

Burple

20th April 2007, 05:20 AM

quote:Originally posted by deerslayer

The blame lies with the cops who let this happen 2 hrs between the shootings . The tek should have been in lock down.This is a carbon copy of Columbine where the cops sat back for 2 hrs while 2 guys with auto weapons were on the rampage . Then they went in too late the damage was done. As for gun control , the 3 biggest lobby groups to the American Congress are OIL DENFENCE CONTRACTOR GUN LOBBY. These are the people who make the big donations for the race for the White House. When the handguns were banned over here ,target shooting was the fastest growing sport in the UK.The Govt bought back all legal firearms @ 95% of the brand new value, costing £137 m . Gun crime has rocketed since with illegal firearms . So what good did it do ? I had 5 legall handguns ,but i was tarred with same brush as T Hamilton, a suspected pedo. Guns dont fire themselfs. I have 7 guns in the USA @ my uncles house.There more guns in the USA than people 400million. You cant legislate for a lone gunman , if you tried to take the guns in the US THERE WOULD BE CIVIL WAR.

Fair enough, I know it's not the guns themselves, they're just the tools. Surely it's about time stricter control over screening processes for when people BUY guns? The days of the Wild west are over...

p.s.. don't take this as personal at all, just mty thoughts.

bigcoyote

20th April 2007, 06:18 AM

Hey all,

First of all -- no offence taken from any comments :D

Second - I agree that this was a HUGE tragity and it could have been handled better by the authorities.

Third - I am a gun owner ( licensed ) - The biggest problem I see ( my opinion ) is that the states & cities don't enforce the gun laws they already have.

example - at my local gun shop if a person fails the background check - then the clerk calls the police and reports it to them. When the person comes back to pick up thier gun - the clerk again calls the police and tells them the person is there and stalls so the police have time to show up and arrest them. ( this has happened several times at my local gun shop ) Guess how many times the police showed up..........NONE!!!! not in 1 hour, not in 6 hours - never showed up at all.
So... the person then leaves the shop ( with-out the gun ) and looks thru the local newspaper and buys a gun from a private person....

So.. the gun control people can say " our new law stopped XXXX number of gun sales this year" - but if you ask them how many people were arrested and convicted under the new law for trying to buy guns illegally.....they have no numbers - because no one was arrested ( to the best of my knowledge ).

Fourth - I am in favor of responsible gun control laws - I have no problems with a national or state based gun license that does in-depth background checks, etc....

Would the gun control laws in Virginia / DC have stopped the tragity....maybe ( I am not real familliar with the laws in those states )
We know the shooter had some mental issues but I don't think he was declared mentally incompitent or defective. He was a legal resident , etc.. He was not a convicted felon ( that I know of ). So he could buy a gun legally and ( depending on local laws ) wear it , as long as it was not concealed.

OK rant over.....

:D

It is tragic and it shouldn't have happened - but it did. :(

Thanks for all the kind words and thoughts - the families will need them.

BJN

20th April 2007, 06:36 AM

Whats next, banning cars so people don't get knocked down.

If some nutter wants to go on rampage and kill people, they will find a weapon legal or illegal.

Cars / planes / home made bombs / guns / knives

You can't ban everything

bigcoyote

20th April 2007, 06:36 AM

On another note....

My wife wants to visit Scotland ( with me I assume ). So someday we will be returning to the Home country.

We will take a plane -- not a boat :p

According to her grandmother - she is realted to one of the 3 Marys ( Mary Flemming I think?? ). She loves Scotland -- hence the plaid stripes on my MINI :D

My family comes from around Kent as best we can tell -- We arrived in the Colonies in the late 1600's - Why we left ( or were kicked out ) of England is unclear???

Can't wait to see the old stomping grounds of my ancestors:D

Burple

20th April 2007, 06:42 AM

quote:Originally posted by bigcoyote

On another note....

My wife wants to visit Scotland ( with me I assume ). So someday we will be returning to the Home country.

We will take a plane -- not a boat :p

According to her grandmother - she is realted to one of the 3 Marys ( Mary Flemming I think?? ). She loves Scotland -- hence the plaid stripes on my MINI :D

My family comes from around Kent as best we can tell -- We arrived in the Colonies in the late 1600's - Why we left ( or were kicked out ) of England is unclear???

Can't wait to see the old stomping grounds of my ancestors:D

I'm sure you'll be made quite welcome! especially if this lot have anything to do with it.. :D:D

Actually that would be a PERFECT excuse for another Mini Run!! :cool::cool::D:D

Right, you better sort out that holiday! :D

AndyP & Lenore

20th April 2007, 07:11 AM

quote:Originally posted by low_n_loud1
I'm sure you'll be made quite welcome! especially if this lot have anything to do with it.. :D:D

Actually that would be a PERFECT excuse for another Mini Run!! :cool::cool::D:D

Right, you better sort out that holiday! :D
Yeah! What he said! That would be cool.:D

AndyP & Lenore

20th April 2007, 07:57 AM

John (Deerslayer), like Low n Loud is saying, I mean no offence, and what I say here is really just my opinion. But I'm not sure I agree with you on the issue of gun crime rocketing.... Have a look at this chart (http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page48.asp) from the Home Office which does show an increase from 2001 to 2004, but it shows a decrease on Possessions of weapons crime for the next two years. I can't find any records for Scotland, and I would admit that a knife would be classed as a "weapon" also. Like Fi said, you're more likely to be stabbed in this country than shot. Go figure.:I

In having a look around the web I did find some news articles from a few years ago which suggest that guns should be re-legalised in the UK. The theory being that less violent crime is increasing dramatically, e.g. housebreaking, because the burglars are no longer afraid of being shot. Whereas in the USA, housebreakers fear armed home owners more than the police.:eek:

I just can't get my head round the idea that the answer to violent crime in the UK would be to legalise hand guns again. And I can't help but think that if there were far tighter controls on the issuing of hand guns in the US, this tragedy may not have happened. All IMHO.

I agree with everyone who has said that the police should shoulder some of the blame on this. They knew they had an armed suspect on the campus "somewhere" but seemed to have done little about trying to find the guy until it was too late. Not sure how practical putting the campus on lock-down would be mind you. I think I read somewhere that there are 26,000 pupils in this college!! That's the size of Alloa! You'd need a massive police operation to shut that size of campus down and flush the guy out.

A.:(

illegalhunter

20th April 2007, 03:17 PM

Andy this illegally held guns .There are no legal guns left in this country.Anyway this could happen anywhere in the world gun bans wont stop it. (rant over)P.S read this it makes this all the more scarry
http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/va_tech_shooter_video_direct_copy_of_korean_reveng e_film.htm

Burple

20th April 2007, 06:01 PM

quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore
I agree with everyone who has said that the police should shoulder some of the blame on this. They knew they had an armed suspect on the campus "somewhere" but seemed to have done little about trying to find the guy until it was too late. Not sure how practical putting the campus on lock-down would be mind you. I think I read somewhere that there are 26,000 pupils in this college!! That's the size of Alloa! You'd need a massive police operation to shut that size of campus down and flush the guy out.

A.:(

We only have around 12,000 students, and the campus is farily extensive, Locking down this one would be a massive job, plus the fact there's a Primary school in the middle of it. I doubt it would be a practical option in the timescale..

The guy's video seems to prove or disprove a lot of things though. It was NOT motivated by Video Games, Or anything to do with Evolution being taught in school (since he was brought up in South Korea).

There are a lot of religious overtones in his dialogue tho....
So where are the demands in the Media from all the nutty religious leaders to ban religion? hmmmm? ;)

If someone is determined or deranged enough to REALLY do something like this, then all the gun laws inthe world won't stop it.