Email from Mini Re HiFi

[illegalhunter]

Got this today & i replied & said . IF THE SPEAKERS IN THE hIfI UPGRADE DISTORTS WHEN UPLOAD THEN THE AMP IS TO POWERFUL OR THE SPEAKERS ARE CRAP SO IAM WAITING ON THE REPLY
Dear Mr McIlroy,

Thank you for your email dated March 14, 2007 regarding your MINI Cooper S. I would like to apologise for any inconvenience this has caused.

I have spoken to Bill Ritchie, Service Manager at Douglas Park Glasgow. He confirmed that the centre armrest needed to be ordered from Germany and I understand that the part has now been delivered and fitted to your vehicle. With regards to the Hifi system, Bill has advised that the distortion on your Hifi only occurs when the volume is on its highest settings. He has informed you that the system is not designed to be used at this volume without expecting some kind
of distortion.

I understand that you were not entirely happy with this explanation, which is why Bill is arranging for the Technical Service Manager from MINI UK to asses the system. Bill will be in contact with you once the appointment has been confirmed. The decision made by our Technical Manager will be final.

I am sorry that you have had cause to contact us under these circumstances and trust that Bill will be in contact with you shortly.

Yours sincerely

MINI UK
Charlotte Jacobson
Customer Service Executive
Ellesfield Avenue
Bracknell RG12 8TA
Tel: 0870 5050122
Fax: 0870 5050205
Email: customer.service@mini.co.uk
URL: www.mini.co.uk

[sh@z]

Any stereo you get with a car will distort when you turn it up to its highest volume, upgrading the speakers will resolve this, it happened when I had my mini, even with an aftermarket head unit, the speakers are the weak link.

[KenL]

I don't think the tone of your message will get you anywhere, they were polite and courteous to you so you should do the same ;)

Any HiFi system, even a high end home system has a limit and will distort at high volume settings. This is normally due to the analogue signal clipping in the amplifier, if this IS the case, changing the speakers will not help.

One reason for this is that the amp has to be designed to accomodate a range of input levels. For the MINI system there are CDs, Aux I/Ps with a wide range of signal levels as well as radio stations which on analogue broadcast at different signal levels.

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by KenL

I don't think the tone of your message will get you anywhere, they were polite and courteous to you so you should do the same ;)

Any HiFi system, even a high end home system has a limit and will distort at high volume settings. This is normally due to the analogue signal clipping in the amplifier, if this IS the case, changing the speakers will not help.

One reason for this is that the amp has to be designed to accomodate a range of input levels. For the MINI system there are CDs, Aux I/Ps with a wide range of signal levels as well as radio stations which on analogue broadcast at different signal levels.




Sorry Ken, I disagree with the majority of the above.

The amp may well be designed to accommodate a range of inputs - but the majority of these will be at very similar level. Cd player will output at line level, iPod's will output at line level, and the radio is integrated so I can't imagine it piping anything to the amp at anything other than line level.

The biggest problem with poor speaker performance is exactly as Sh@z says; poor quality speakers incapable of playing the decibels being asked of it by the amp.

I think it's unlikely audio clipping is going on, because modern amps' digital to analogue converter's can't handle digital clipping and you just get a hiss from the speakers, rather than a breakdown of sound quality.

The majority of my audio knowledge is based on professional systems, so if I'm wrong on any of the above, someone tell me. But not you Ken!:eek: lol:D Only joking.;)

A.

[sharpy]

As someone who gets pissed off with cars that drive past with thumping sound coming out of them, and a wish to have a baseball bat to reduce the owners car to its constituent parts............way to go Mini, thanks for making distorting speakers.

A bit of advice, buy headphones

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by sharpy

As someone who gets pissed off with cars that drive past with thumping sound coming out of them, and a wish to have a baseball bat to reduce the owners car to its constituent parts............way to go Mini, thanks for making distorting speakers.

A bit of advice, buy headphones


Bit harsh, to be honest. I hate the chest-thumping boom, boom, boom from some cars too, but you can have decent quality, decent sound level music without it permeating everyon elses eardrums.

A.;)

[illegalhunter]

Well a former pro DJ iam half deaf in 1 ear because of headphones so thats no good .They are changing the the tweeters on Tue so well will see if there is a diffence.

[vintageb3]

It won't...I guarantee.

mark

[KenL]

quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore
Sorry Ken, I disagree with the majority of the above.

The amp may well be designed to accommodate a range of inputs - but the majority of these will be at very similar level. Cd player will output at line level, iPod's will output at line level, and the radio is integrated so I can't imagine it piping anything to the amp at anything other than line level.

The biggest problem with poor speaker performance is exactly as Sh@z says; poor quality speakers incapable of playing the decibels being asked of it by the amp.

I think it's unlikely audio clipping is going on, because modern amps' digital to analogue converter's can't handle digital clipping and you just get a hiss from the speakers, rather than a breakdown of sound quality.



The Aux I/P is an analogue input so the level will be variable.

Although "line level" is a standard, it refers to a maximum signal swing (1V IIRC) and many sources do have a variation. Also different CDs are recorded at different levels. Hip Hop ones are normally really loud for example.

I am not sure what you are talking about on D/A converters in an amplifier. The vital part of the amplifier (i.e. the final current drive circuit for the speakers will be all analogue. ANY hifi amp will eventually distort if the volume knob is turned up too far. You will never be able to run it at max volume even if it is driving speakers that are more than adequate.

I may be talking crap but I hope my 20 years as a electronics engineer specialising in low noise analog circuit design gives me some understanding of the technlogy involved :p

I could, of course, be talking rubbish and the speakers are crap :I

[sharpy]

"but you can have decent quality, decent sound level music without it permeating everyon elses eardrums".

From a mass produced midpriced car?..........hmmmm, maybe a Bentley with triple glazed windows and 4 inch thick body, but yer average Ford/Vauxhall/Audi/Mini?.......turn the volume up and they all seem to boomtitty boomtitty along the road with an acne riddled teenager thinking they are the king of cool (and they are, but only to other acne riddled teenagers, to everyone else they are (fill in the appropriate description)

[Craig]

sorry to hear that John, seems like a poor response to me..:disapprove::disapprove:

I am also having the same issue with the speakers....

Here is the issue I have... I had the Harmon Kardon system in my last mini and it was SUPERB. I never ever ever EVER got ANY distortion from it and it was cheaper than the HiFi Upgrade in the R56. The HiFi upgrade also has 4 more speakers (10 compared to the 6 in the HK kit). I was therefore expecting the system to be the same quality, if not better.

To be left with a bigger bill and less quality from the sound to me is unacceptable. I am not an acne riddle teenager, but I do like my music loud from time to time and it is NOT possible in my new car without loosing the quality in the playback AND getting distortion.

I believe that the system has not been "Matched" correctly between speakers and amp as a few years ago I used to be into my car stereo BIG time and spent thousands on systems, I know from experience that if you don't get the balance right between the speaker and amp, it will be a badly sounding, badly setup system..:disapprove:

Good luck with your fight John, I will also not give up til the problem is sorted, or MINI agree that the system is sub-standard for what is supposed to be an Upgrade.:(

[Scottie]

seems to me the easy fix is to

LISTEN TO A DIFFERENT TYPE OF MUSIC.

did you hear that dearslayer.:D;):p:blackeye::kiss:

[BJN]

No problems with distortion in my car with the HK hi-fi, seems the R56 was designed by accountants

[KenL]

...and there is no problem with distortion in my R56 with the hifi upgrade, even at sound levels that are too loud in a car.

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by KenL
The Aux I/P is an analogue input so the level will be variable.

Although "line level" is a standard, it refers to a maximum signal swing (1V IIRC) and many sources do have a variation. Also different CDs are recorded at different levels. Hip Hop ones are normally really loud for example.

I am not sure what you are talking about on D/A converters in an amplifier. The vital part of the amplifier (i.e. the final current drive circuit for the speakers will be all analogue. ANY hifi amp will eventually distort if the volume knob is turned up too far. You will never be able to run it at max volume even if it is driving speakers that are more than adequate.

I may be talking crap but I hope my 20 years as a electronics engineer specialising in low noise analog circuit design gives me some understanding of the technlogy involved :p

I could, of course, be talking rubbish and the speakers are crap :I


Didn't say you were talking crap. Just disagreed with you. Still do to a certain extent.

I agree that no matter what amp you have if you turn it up to max it will distort to some extent. But I doubt the line in level from CD/Radio/ aux I/P will vary to such an extent that it causes clipping in the amp because it's being pushed too hard because the input level is so low.

The fact that their is no distortion on your system when "too loud" suggest Craig and John's hifi "system" is faulty at some point in the chain.

Of course, it could also be the case that you're an old fart and can't take loud noises anymore.:eek::D;)

A.:D

[KenL]

quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore
Of course, it could also be the case that you're an old fart and can't take loud noises anymore.:eek::D;)

A.:D


:DYou are probably correct there.

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by KenL


quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore
Of course, it could also be the case that you're an old fart and can't take loud noises anymore.:eek::D;)

A.:D
:DYou are probably correct there.A note for the diary.... we agree on something.;):D

A.:D

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by BJN

seems the R56 was designed by accountants


So true. Said that the minute I saw it, it had been built to a price.

[KenL]

quote:Originally posted by duncan


quote:Originally posted by BJN

seems the R56 was designed by accountants


So true. Said that the minute I saw it, it had been built to a price.


That may be the case but so was the old version, as are all cars.

My car is miles better than the rubbsih quality effort that was sold to me in 2002. The quality of the interior is vastly superior, the dash, the seats, the door panels - everything in my view :)

The R56 is a much better car than the "old" version :p:D

Think I will have to run for cover after that statement :blackeye::D

[Craig]

quote:


The R56 is a much better car than the "old" version :p:D





Not in my experience...:disapprove::disapprove::disapprove:: disapprove:

My "old" cooper didn't have 1 day off the road for faults, however today is day 25 off the road for my R56 S...:disapprove::disapprove:.

[duncan]

Ken, with all respect, all early production models have issues with build quality, and reliability.
Quality of materials and parts are another issue.

Perhaps you haven't had a a good look at a facelifted R50/3.
That was much improved car over the original pre-facelifted version, and is what I am basing my opinion on.
What MINI should have done is gone on from that car. It seems, to me anyway, they haven't.

MINI have also been quoted as saying although they have sold many more cars than they expected, they weren't making as much money per vehicle as thay could.

That in mind, when I first saw the R56, I could see things that didn't fit in with a premium small car.
i.e. things like the S filler cap, the Fisher Price control panel, and the wee boot carpet.

Just my opinion though. :)

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by Craig & Jude


quote:


The R56 is a much better car than the "old" version :p:D





Not in my experience...:disapprove::disapprove::disapprove:: disapprove:

My "old" cooper didn't have 1 day off the road for faults, however today is day 25 off the road for my R56 S...:disapprove::disapprove:.


aww poor wee man http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/traurig/k055.gif

suck it up and get on with it stop yer moaning. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/konfus/d025.gif

http://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/frech/c035.gif

[Craig]

yeah yeah Fi, yer a barrel o' laughs... ;)

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by Craig & Jude

yeah yeah Fi, yer a barrel o' laughs... ;)


I know. http://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/frech/h020.gif

[broken_brian]

To me it sounds as if A the speakers could be crap
or B the signal getting sent to the amp is too high and it is then amplifiing the signal causing it to distort, but that all depends on how the system is wired up is it a separate amp that may just be hooked up to the speaker output of the stereo in whichcase the amp is getting too high an input sgnal to cope with. Or is it a proper line out signal from the stereo to the amp which would indicate that the speakers are crap.

Ps: My standard fit speakers in my fiat are fantastic (shame about the rest of the car) as i can play my music nice and loud without distortion :D:clown:the car is fitted with a high end (5 years ago) apline HU