ELFMAN'S TYRE CHOICE...

[ELFMAN]

I'm going to need a new set of tyres in the next few weeks. I'm sticking with my 7x16" Minilites (I'd only kerb 17's even more!), so I'm looking for info for that size. I know the 'new new' MINI is running the latest generation 16" Runflats as standard - what make are they, and are they an improvement on my (not too bad overall) '03 vintage Goodyear Eagle NCT 5 runflats?

There's also the perennial 'Will I go for non-runflats?' question - better ride/handling/grip etc, but also a chance of being stranded or having to fill space you need with a spare (which would have to be tied down, as the last thing you need in a shunt is a fully loaded wheel and tyre flying around inside the car). Part of me wants to put on some sticky Yokos or similar, but I'm not sure I want to rely on 'tyre-weld' type fluids to get me home - sod's law I'd get a puncture in the 1st week... Any info appreciated!

[KenL]

I have Goodyear Excellence runflats on my R56. Seem fine in terms of grip and they are not too noisey. I have nothing to compare them too though.

Check out BlackCircles for prices and fitting. I bought 2 tyres for the Golf before I sold it and their prices were good. Check their associated fitting centres can handle runflats though. Here are their fully fitted prices.

Pirelli Eufori@ (Run Flat) 195/55 R16 H £86.35
Dunlop SP3000 A DSST (Runflat) 195/55 R16 H £90.10
Goodyear NCT5 EMT (Runflat) 195/55 R16 H £90.20
Dunlop SP3000 A DSST (Runflat) 195/55 R16 V £98.10
Goodyear NCT5 EMT (Runflat) 195/55 R16 V £105.00
Goodyear Excellence (Runflat) 195/55 R16 H £106.78

[Craig]

You know me Euan...

I'm in the non-runflat camp.. :approve::approve::approve::approve:

they are more comfortable, quieter, better grip, better in the wet and MUCH cheaper to buy.

only down side is the puncture issue..

pays yer money and all that. I have already changed my run-flats on my broken R56 to falken ZE512's and what a difference. :D:D:D

[KenL]

quote:Originally posted by Craig & Jude


they are more comfortable, quieter, better grip, better in the wet and MUCH cheaper to buy.



That's what I thought too, but, on BlackCircles, their runflats are only about 10% more expensive than premium non runflats.

[ELFMAN]

Thanks guys, I'll check back later.

Craig - are you taking any precautions Re your new rubber? (OK, OK you 'Carry on' freaks, quiet now). Like a tyre sealant treatment etc?

[Craig]

quote:Originally posted by ELFMAN

Thanks guys, I'll check back later.

Craig - are you taking any precautions Re your new rubber? (OK, OK you 'Carry on' freaks, quiet now). Like a tyre sealant treatment etc?


nope Euan, no precautions.. (other than watching where I am going..)

Got a puncture in one of my new run flats and decided just to change over... :approve::approve::approve:

[roadrunner]

Euan,

Me to in the non-runflat camp, i know we have spoken about this on a run once, however for my 2 pennys worth, i am on Yokohama Parada spec 2. I find the tyre wear has been great(even for me!) and the cornering, wow. The ride quality is good, better than gen 1 runflats...can not comment on the new one's.
As craig said, you pay your money. For me its worth it and at this time of the year, even though i dont travel quite as energetic as in the spring, the differnce with non runflats compared with RF is fairly big in favour in my opinion of non runflats (more grip)

Hope the above helps with the confusion

[Aberdeen Al]

Hi,

I replaced my 2 x front tyres with Toyo Proxes just last week - they cost £168 inc. fitting and balancing.

Just in case of emergencies I have a tin of Holts tyre stuff (technical I know but it's raining outside) in the boot.

[AndyP & Lenore]

Am I missing something on this non-run flats-have-more-grip issue? We have Dunlop 2000 Run Flat somethings on our S and as some of you know we tend to drive everywhere at 0 or 200mph:eek::I. We take hairpin bends on the A7 (Craig will know the sort of bends I'm on about) at a steady 45 to 50mph and we don't feel like we're about to loose grip at all:approve:. We had Pirelli's on our CVT Cooper and there's no way we could take bends as fast or we have just spun off into a pile of dust:blackeye:. But the Dunlop's are great:D. Harsh as hell, but great at grip;).

If I'm being honest, if it was only ever me driving the car I'd probably go for non-run flats, but as I let Lenore drive from time to time - I even trust her to the car on her own sometimes:eek: - I'd rather she had the security of run flats.:approve:

A.:D

[euan]

Get prices from a variety of sources (web and specialist dealers) and compare - BMW price matched the Michelin Pilot Sport 2s on the 3 series which were 40 quid cheaper (each) elsewhere, inc fitting & vat. Plus, they did it properly (put the weights on the inside on the alloy).

[ELFMAN]

Cheers folks - all good food for thought. I'm still undecided - my handling's always been pretty good as the RF16's seem to be more 'pliable' than the RF 17's, probably due to the taller sidewalls which soak up the crap roads a bit better. Because mine are worn down now, I'm probably noticing a lessening of grip - especially in the wet/salty/mucky season (also 210bhp and a greasy road doesn't help...). So maybe a new set of RF 16's would do the trick. I pretty sure non-RF's would ride and grip a bit better - but I also think there's a bigger difference between the 17" RF's and their non-RF counterparts. In 2003, I test-drove an S on 17" RF's (on a damp day) before I bought my S, and found it pretty 'wooden' with less grip compared to my COOPER on 16's - so I stuck with 16's which were noticably better. Appreciate all your views though.

[duncan]

Just to add to your comments Euan, I have never had an issue with 16s with Runflats and grip - except when they get down to 2mm.
I'm not driving my MINI to the edge of its limits, so don't need to change to high performance non-runflats.
I have a set of the "new" Runflats on my MINI, and don't really notice a great difference between them and the original ones, however, i've always run Dunlops prior, and are on Goodyear now.

The safety of Runflats are a major selling point for me. I've had a tyre come off its rim on a work vehicle before, and its no fun changing it in a very small layby on the A90 with 70MPH traffic a few feet away, in the pouring rain.

[ELFMAN]

Good points Duncan. The wear on my tyres is a factor - but keep the comments coming folks!

[james f]

why not speak to GTT or lohen as they are best to give advice on a sutible tyre for you application as the tyre debate is one that will rage for all of time and tbh i dont think many of us can match the experience of Roland as he is the one person i trust when it come to my car

[duncan]

Just to add, I also specced the emergency spare tyre on the Cooper, so if all else fails, I have that.
And, I'd rather put my trust in metal reinforcment, than goo.

James, fair point, however, the "experts" who designed and built the car suggest Runflats.
Good enough for an every day driver like me.

[james f]

quote:Originally posted by duncan

James, fair point, however, the "experts" who designed and built the car suggest Runflats.
Good enough for an every day driver like me.


actualy they didnt, they designed the mini to run on normal tryes all the suspesion is tuned and set to run on normal tyres.

runflats were a last minute add on form the top brass at bmw in panic as thats wat all the bmws use minis were never supposed to have runflats.

[duncan]

I'd be very surprised at that - the design of the spare tyre carrier, and its availability on the early R50s seems to confirm this, IMHO only.

[james f]

they were ment to run on mini moblity system part of the reaosn was the fact the cooper s couldt have a spare tyre but this was only after the car had been set to run on normal tyres the descion was purley on the grounds of saftey in a panic form bmw

its why the ride is soo bad

[duncan]

Cooper S didnt come out till a year after the One and the Cooper though.
Yes the design would have been around for a while before, however, the fact that my early One came with neither the spare nor the mobility kit, seems to me to indicate it was an early desicion.

And as for the ride being so bad, hmm, thats opinion, not fact.

[ELFMAN]

Euan's Lunchtime Ramblings....
I remember the ride on my '01 COOPER was VERY stiff - it had the 1st Generation 'Sport Plus/Viagra' suspension & 16" Runflats. It was brilliant on smooth roads, but could get upset on lumpy/broken surfaces - sometimes skipping rather than gripping - but I still loved it as overall it was light years ahead of the opposition. The 2nd Gen. 'Sport Plus' fitted to my current 2003 S was quite acceptable and noticably more 'forgiving' as BMW had changed settings from the older one. However, IMHO it was still a bit jiggly and less controlled on some roads. My present JCW Suspension is an improvement again and the debatable 'faults' of the O.E. suspension have been more or less eradicaticated. It's still stiff (Missus!), but that's fine - it's meant to be, and now it doesn't 'skip' over the rough bits. That's why the Runflat isn't too much of a problem for me these days. I've also always stuck to 16's, as I think they're better for 'real world' driving than 17's and 18's. Less flash, more dash! By the way, the John Cooper Garage told me the JCW setup works with both runflats AND 'normal' tyres.

I reckon I'm with James on the Chicken/Egg, Suspension/Runflat 'what came first' debate. With the runflats/Sport Plus (especially early on) the ride WAS far too harsh - I don't think the design engineers would have set it up for British roads like that, but I reckon it wasn't so much of an issue on smooth German tarmac! This leads me to believe that the decision to fit Runflats came from BMW in Germany AFTER the suspension settings were decided, rather than the other way round, as these MINIS DO seem to handle/ride/grip better with non Runflats on our roads at least - and BMW have been playing 'suspension catch-up' ever since. The provision of the space-saver tyre on early versions and the Mobility Kit would indicate that someone was (initially at least) addressing the potential problem of O.E. normal tyres/punctures and having no room for a full-size spare. If the car was designed for Runflats, why have 15" non-runflats as standard on the first ONE and COOPER and provide the 'get you home' gear? Early-ish COOPERS like mine came with Runflats and Sports Plus as OPTIONS, which I believe (see above) compromised the car somewhat. I heard years ago that the best handling COOPER was one with Sports Plus and 15" non-Run Flats... but I could be dreaming. Still - try following the other Duncan, (Duncan Stewart), at speed in his standard 'wee-wheeled' COOPER on a bumpy B-road and you'll see what I mean. (Nuff Respec' Big Man!).

The MINI was designed from the outset to be a great Driver's car, which compromised the packaging/practicality - eg incorporating the rear 'Z' axle instead of the usual space/money-saving Trailing Arm setup and room for a proper spare... and a boot. In this performance-focussed way of thinking, Runflats don't add up as, as IMHO they pushed what would have been a stiff, but acceptable setup on normal tyres into the area where it was only truly happy on fairly smooth roads - especially later on 17" and 18" wheels. The fact that BMW have changed the suspension YET AGAIN for the R65 makes me think that they are still trying to address the runflats' peculiarities - especially since many newer MINI buyers seem less willing to put up with harsher suspension (soft s*ds), whereas true petrolheads/eejits like us WILL put up with a bit of discomfort as a tradeoff for a (mostly) great overall handling package.

I reckon as time goes on, suspension and tyre development will allow MINIS on runflats to give as good ride/handling as makes very little difference 95% of the time compared to non-runflats. It's getting better with every year/version. They'll never be quite as good in feel/grip/ride, but when you factor in the safety/convenience aspect, and strong sidewalls for the odd pothole, they're quite hard to beat as an 'everyday' package.

I'll have to have a look in my MINI books to see if I can shed any light on the Runflat/Design question - maybe it was 'Sport Plus' which did the damage?

[3GGG]

My Aug 52 Cooper has the standard Sports suspension and originally came with Dunlop RF on 16" rims. I changed to Goodyear F1 Non RF 16" later and the ride/grip was much improved. I put tyresafe in them just in case and 'touch wood' no problems at all.

[ELFMAN]

Cheers David. How do you find the tyres for 'firmness' in 16" form? Reason for asking is that ages ago I put 14" Goodyear F1's on my 106GTI, and while the wet weather grip was excellent, in the dry the sidewalls were just too flexible for the (uprated) suspension - they're still on my Mum's 1.1 106! I went on to 15's and Yoko 539's on the Pug. I presume the F1 16's with their lower profile will be a bit less 'bouncy'?

[3GGG]

I haven't found them bouncy, they are slightly lower profile than the the original RF 16" - 205/50 v 195/55. Overall I like them much more than the RF, especially in the wet.

[ELFMAN]

....more food for thought. TA.

[T100L]

OMG guys, defo alot of info there, i was away to take off my run flats on my gp this week, now im begining to wonder?
if anybody has done can they recommend a good 205/40/18 tyre please?

thanks
john

[ELFMAN]

The words “Can” and “Worms” spring to mind... I keep making up my mind for certain - then changing it again!

I think my current Goodyear NCT5 runflats are a pretty good all-rounder, but the compound is pretty hard, so while wear's good, grip in the wet could be better, and they can feel a wee bit 'wooden' at times. The new generation of runflats eg Goodyear Excellence (as fitted to some new new MINIs), from what I've read, are using more advanced tread patterns/compounds with Silica stuff to improve grip etc. But I still think a 'proper' 'performance' non-runflat, like 3GGG's Goodyear F1's will get the best out of the car - unless you run over a nail..... Play safe or just play? It's a quandry!

[3GGG]

Put in the Goodyear F1s and a nail in the tread will be sealed by the stuff. Note I don't mean put that squirty stuff in AFTER you get a puncture - I mean put tyresafe in as a preventative measure, that is what it is designed to do.

Details http://www.cvs-vehicles.co.uk/pages/tyresafe.html

BTW I have a drum of the stuff plus the pump etc.

[ELFMAN]

It's OK David, I knew what you meant Re. preventative treatment - the simple 'nail' scenario was probably a bad example for me to use. However, some types of tread/sidewall damage could be beyond sealing, whereas the tougher construction of the runflat might save the day. Ta for the info though.

[Mon the fish]

quote:Originally posted by T100L

OMG guys, defo alot of info there, i was away to take off my run flats on my gp this week, now im begining to wonder?
if anybody has done can they recommend a good 205/40/18 tyre please?

thanks
john


You'll struggle to get non-RF'a in this size, need to go for 215/35/18. Lots of choice at this size, Goodyear, Falken, Toyo, Yokohama etc etc...

[ELFMAN]

Just been out with my tyre depth gauge - I have about 5mm tread on all my tyres, so I've got a wee bit more time than I thought to make up my mind!

Anyone got any more info on the new O.E. MINI Goodyear 'Excellence' 195/55x16 Runflat?

[Gorbash12346]

still can't ghet any more info on their merits/ flaws as theres only 1 or 2 people who have driven them as yet and their not very helpful...

[ELFMAN]

Cheers, ta for trying! Having spoken to Craig and others on Friday, I'm slowly drifting towards non-runflat Goodyear Eagle F1 GS D3's... Will wait till after Oxford Trip next month and make a decision then. All the discussions/thoughts have been a great help though!

[sh@z]

I had these on my Cooper on the S Spokes. Exact same tyre.... phenomenal tyre for the mini, definitely go for it :D