Tax Disc

[Keith]

This Saturday was the first time I have had to tax my mini cooper s. Nothing strange there, it's a normal cost for the pleasure of driving your car. I had to tax my 'other' car at the same time, so off I went to the post office.
Maybe I have been living in a cave but I did not expect them to be the same price and I certainly did not expect it to be £104.50p for 6 months!!
Left there feeling like it must be some kind of sick joke or maybe they made an error?
:blackeye::(

[duncan]

Its all based on emissions these days, and a Cooper S is hardly the greenest of cars....

Plus paying for 2x6 months has always been much more expensive than 1x12 months.

Here (http://direct.gov.uk/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicleArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10012524&chk=X2gG9G) is a list of the current costs.

[euan]

As an aside - doing the tax renewal online is SO much easier (and thats not just because my work built the system that does it ;))

[PACMAN]

quote:Originally posted by euan

As an aside - doing the tax renewal online is SO much easier (and thats not just because my work built the system that does it ;))


and no more waiting behind a hundred OAP and the post office as well :p:blackeye::D

[Burple]

<cof>

It's much less than that for the One! ;):p

<cof>

[Mark R]

Quite a bit less for the Cooper too. :D

[sedgie]

Got mine in the post today....£190!!!!:dead:...just asweel hubby gonnae buy it for me!;):D

[Keith]

It's sickening! I expected it to be about £70 if I am honest. Saying that I am extremely tight these days and grudge these running costs.

[Crombers]

Ouch , thats gotta hurt :blackeye:

£125 a year on a Coop :approve:

[duncan]

Are you sure? I was under the impression that the Cooper missed that band by 1g/km and was £150

Checks V5 - 2005 Cooper - 166 g/km - yep £150

[KenL]

Ouch!

We have an Aygo, £40 for a year's RT!

R56 Cooper is £100, I think.

[Craig]

well if you get an new R56 S, it is only £125 per year.... ya dancer!! :approve::approve::approve::approve:

[N12 JLK]

YIPEE:D

[sedgie]

Wow new s cheaper than i thought ...looked it up n said £150!:eek:

[N12 JLK]

Good excuse;)

[redpoint rallying]

Oi Pacman.....TAKE NOTE

the oap in front of you in the queue might just be my dad! He's 72.

But hes on his 7th Subaru Imprezza WRX.....and can be seen (but not kept up with by many) giving it some beans around the country in his current spec WRX STi Type UK. :D

You just never can tell with these 'oldies'

Oh aye, He also drives a Cooper! :)

Heh heh

M

[Crombers]

quote:Originally posted by duncan

Are you sure? I was under the impression that the Cooper missed that band by 1g/km and was £150

Checks V5 - 2005 Cooper - 166 g/km - yep £150


Dunno the actual figues Duncan but the pre facelift Coop (mine is a May 04) is defo £125 & after June/July 04 it's up to £150 as you say

[markyc]

I must admit to being very surprised when I saw the tax disc on my newbie :eek: as Craig say only £125 :approve::D

A mighty clean engine on a mighty fast wee car :p:approve:;)

[Scottie]

I have no problem with the car tax but I wouldn't being a 4x4 driver.

I do have a problem with the greenies who will not put and focus on the fact that other cars like the older Cooper S is as bad for enviroment as a 4x4.

However if any greenie tree hugger was to have a go at me for my choice of motor then bugger you through Landrover I chose to take CO2 Offset Programme costing me another £85 for 3 years how green am I.:approve:

[KenL]

Let's not get started on a 4x4 thread, we'll only end up all falling out.

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by KenL

Let's not get started on a 4x4 thread, we'll only end up all falling out.




why would we fall out.???? what is different from a car to a 4x4 other than it takes up more size on the road.???

[KenL]

I have absolutely nothing against people having a 4x4 if they have a need for it. Like you, for example, living up north.

I do though, disagree with people driving huge 4x4s in cities where they have absolutley no need for the car. It is a totally inappropriate, selfish choice for these people. Some of these cars are approaching 400g/km - 3 times that of an R56 Cooper.

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by KenL
I have absolutely nothing against people having a 4x4 if they have a need for it. Like you, for example, living up north.

I do though, disagree with people driving huge 4x4s in cities where they have absolutley no need for the car. It is a totally inappropriate, selfish choice for these people. Some of these cars are approaching 400g/km - 3 times that of an R56 Cooper.


I would like to know which 4x4 are approaching 400g/km the big supercharged FFRR or RRS come in around 376 and they pay something like a extra £165 for the co2 offset programme.

Our Freelander with it's diesel particular filter being and with us taking part in the c02 offset programme and probably cleaner than your R56 Cooper

[KenL]

OK, you win :I

...and well done on the CO2 offset thing, probably should be compulsary for all car owners. :cool:

[james f]

by and large the co bigde ive encountered have all driven old bangers and didnt like it when i pointed that my cooper was far far more freindly to the enviromemt than their clattered old banger with not catalysit or engine managment and that compaines like bmw work hard to have a lower carbon foot print etc

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by james f

by and large the co bigde ive encountered have all driven old bangers and didnt like it when i pointed that my cooper was far far more freindly to the enviromemt than their clattered old banger with not catalysit or engine managment and that compaines like bmw work hard to have a lower carbon foot print etc


exactly

and that's why every 4x4 manufacturer has spent a load of dosh to make their cars as green as possible they would loose to much money otherwise.

There is going to come a time when the green lobbyist isn't going to get away with the emissions crap about the 4x4 other than their foot print on the tarmac 4x4's will not be any worse than any other c02 emitting vehicle.

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by james f

by and large the co bigde ive encountered have all driven old bangers and didnt like it when i pointed that my cooper was far far more freindly to the enviromemt than their clattered old banger with not catalysit or engine managment and that compaines like bmw work hard to have a lower carbon foot print etc


Way to stereotype. You missed the CND and Nuclear Power - No Thanks stickers from the back of the 2CV.......;)

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop


quote:Originally posted by james f

by and large the co bigde ive encountered have all driven old bangers and didnt like it when i pointed that my cooper was far far more freindly to the enviromemt than their clattered old banger with not catalysit or engine managment and that compaines like bmw work hard to have a lower carbon foot print etc


exactly

and that's why every 4x4 manufacturer has spent a load of dosh to make their cars as green as possible they would loose to much money otherwise.

There is going to come a time when the green lobbyist isn't going to get away with the emissions crap about the 4x4 other than their foot print on the tarmac 4x4's will not be any worse than any other c02 emitting vehicle.


Bearing in mind that carbon emissions are the only thing that's taxed, the fact that in cities at least, large volumes of 4x4s are guzzling rapidly diminishing fuel on pointless journeys to school.

All these school run mums in their tanks want taxed off the road.
Get your kids to walk to school - no wonder they're obese!

[james f]

quote:Originally posted by duncan


quote:Originally posted by james f

by and large the co bigde ive encountered have all driven old bangers and didnt like it when i pointed that my cooper was far far more freindly to the enviromemt than their clattered old banger with not catalysit or engine managment and that compaines like bmw work hard to have a lower carbon foot print etc


Way to stereotype. You missed the CND and Nuclear Power - No Thanks stickers from the back of the 2CV.......;)


i was only making refernace to personal experince ;)as i am totaly anti trident, and opposed to all arms etc and would like to see the CND sucseed :)

[KenL]

Very good point Duncan.

[james f]

quote:Originally posted by duncan


quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop


quote:Originally posted by james f

by and large the co bigde ive encountered have all driven old bangers and didnt like it when i pointed that my cooper was far far more freindly to the enviromemt than their clattered old banger with not catalysit or engine managment and that compaines like bmw work hard to have a lower carbon foot print etc


exactly

and that's why every 4x4 manufacturer has spent a load of dosh to make their cars as green as possible they would loose to much money otherwise.

There is going to come a time when the green lobbyist isn't going to get away with the emissions crap about the 4x4 other than their foot print on the tarmac 4x4's will not be any worse than any other c02 emitting vehicle.


Bearing in mind that carbon emissions are the only thing that's taxed, the fact that in cities at least, large volumes of 4x4s are guzzling rapidly diminishing fuel on pointless journeys to school.

All these school run mums in their tanks want taxed off the road.
Get your kids to walk to school - no wonder they're obese!


but then it would also be fair to say the same of many bus jorneys as im sure that insted of getting on the bus many could walk the only reson i got a lift to school was i lived on a farm and it was on mums way to work

pound for pound i bet the school mum dose very little damage when its all put in a wider context say the many van drivers whos 10 year old transits out number the school mum massivly but i do agree that if you live in london and never leave london etc a 4x4 is exessive

[duncan]

Point being though, James, a van driver is going about their business, and its generally the one man band thats running about in 10 year old transits. Big business lease their vans and are ditched after 4 years or so.

Maybe the answer is to do what some Far East countries do, and scrap all vehicles over 10 years old.

Most of these Chelsea Tractors, on School Runs, are doing journeys that are totally un-nessesary.
Kids in the towns should walk to school - where practical.

Unrelated to this - there was a story in yesterdays Evening Telegraph in Dundee about a kid who didnt have the right money for a bus fare, and was kicked off.

His Journey? 3 Stops!

I couldn't believe that a parent would give the kid 40p (now 52p thats why he didnt have enough money) every day to go 3 stops on a bus. We're not talking about a Citylink coach here - its a Corporation bus, with a stop every 500 yards or so!

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by duncan


quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop


quote:Originally posted by james f

by and large the co bigde ive encountered have all driven old bangers and didnt like it when i pointed that my cooper was far far more freindly to the enviromemt than their clattered old banger with not catalysit or engine managment and that compaines like bmw work hard to have a lower carbon foot print etc


exactly

and that's why every 4x4 manufacturer has spent a load of dosh to make their cars as green as possible they would loose to much money otherwise.

There is going to come a time when the green lobbyist isn't going to get away with the emissions crap about the 4x4 other than their foot print on the tarmac 4x4's will not be any worse than any other c02 emitting vehicle.


Bearing in mind that carbon emissions are the only thing that's taxed, the fact that in cities at least, large volumes of 4x4s are guzzling rapidly diminishing fuel on pointless journeys to school.

All these school run mums in their tanks want taxed off the road.
Get your kids to walk to school - no wonder they're obese!


your arguement doesn't hold tight. there is no difference between a 5 series BMW taking kids to school than what there is taking them in a X5.

many of todays 4x4 get better mpg than say the older Cooper S so they ain't guzzling anymore fuel now are they.

[Scottie]

Oh and isn't fuel taxed.?????

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by duncan



Most of these Chelsea Tractors, on School Runs, are doing journeys that are totally un-nessesary.
Kids in the towns should walk to school - where practical.




as is any car taking kids to school in the cities

[duncan]

Can't say I've seen many 5 series BMWs on a School run though.
Maybe Dundee High does right enough.

However, its the fact that a lot of the School Run journeys are pointless, which is the biggest waste of resources, be it in a Toyota Prius or a Range Rover sport.

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by duncan

Can't say I've seen many 5 series BMWs on a School run though.
Maybe Dundee High does right enough.

However, its the fact that a lot of the School Run journeys are pointless, which is the biggest waste of resources, be it in a Toyota Prius or a Range Rover sport.


doesn't matter the fact is 4x4 is no worse than any other car.

and

if you've been in London look at all the big merc's Bmw's Jag's etc etc they are much longer than some 4x4's

so other than a 4x4 (and not all 4x4's) sitting higher on the road than what some cars do .

[duncan]

Maybe the Schools your seeing kids being taken to Fi there's a load of X5s, but a lot of 4x4s that are on the School run aren't brand spanking fuel efficient vehicles.

There's plenty Rav 4s and older Discos and so on, which arent exactly the most efficient, compared with a similar age super-mini which would do the same job.

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by duncan

Maybe the Schools your seeing kids being taken to Fi there's a load of X5s, but a lot of 4x4s that are on the School run aren't brand spanking fuel efficient vehicles.

There's plenty Rav 4s and older Discos and so on, which arent exactly the most efficient, compared with a similar age super-mini which would do the same job.


well a Rav4 wouldn't be any different from any other car of the same age well actually being a Toyota it would more than likely be better.

all you need to do is google:p

To undermine the Anti-4x4 action groups by presenting you with the facts rather than fantasy.
The campaign is not arguing the impact of Co2 emissions on our environment but it will undermine the anti 4x4 movements jealousy driven argument by presenting facts and nothing but facts.

The basis for most anti 4x4 ranting centres around 4x4’s being the biggest polluters on the planet. This is a very generic comment and doesn’t seem to be based on any truths whatsoever here in the UK, the problem is little old ladies and hairy men up trees believe it, but then this theme seems to run right through the entire anti 4x4 debate.

* All 4x4’s mercilessly mow down young children.
* All 4x4’s are massive and take up too much space.
* You WILL die if a 4x4 hits you.
* Millions are suffering in Africa because of your 4x4 etc etc etc

Admittedly there are issues in the USA with Hummers and even bigger creations but to class all 4x4s in the same category is ridiculous.

FACT #1
4x4’s come in all sizes and shapes, the only thing that links them in the eye’s of the anti 4x4 mob is the number of driven wheels. In their minds the Panda 4x4 is in the same league as the Hummer i.e. killing our children, the planet and taking up all the parking spaces in our cities.

FACT #2
All engines that use fossil fuel for combustion emit co2 as a waste product, for cars this is generally measured in g/km. It must also be added that all fossil fuelled cars, including 4x4’s, are measured by the same rules. There are no mythical rules or methods whereby a 4x4 can avoid such legislation. Diesel generally emits less co2 than their equivalent petrol driven car and LPG produces even less still.

FACT #3
The following 4x4’s are rated as having a lower co2 rating than the MINI Cooper S, which is rated at 222g/km

* FIAT Panda 4x4
* Honda - HR-V 1.6 VTEC Station Wagon 5d 1590cc
* Land Rover Freelander 2.0 Diesel
* Honda CRV 2.0 i-VTEC Sport
* Hyundai - Terracan 2.9CRTD Station Wagon 5d 2902cc auto
* Nissan X-Trail 2.0 4x4

Pretty Impressive stuff I’m sure you will agree and this list is not exhaustive (if you will pardon the pun) I simply have better things to do with my life.

FACT #4
There are far more Taxi’s in London than 4x4’s. The MetroCab 2.4 diesel is one of the more popular models used by our beloved cabbies and it’s co2 output is 284 g/km. The following 4x4’s, IN ADDITION TO THOSE IN FACT #3, are rated as cleaner than the ubiquitous Metrocab;

* Nissan X-Trail 2.5 4x4
* Mazda Tribute 2.0
* Mitsubishi - Shogun Pinin 2.0 GDI Elegance Station Wagon 5d 1997cc
* Land Rover Freelander 1.8 Petrol
* Land Rover Discovery 3 2.7 V6 Diesel
* Chrysler Jeep Cherokee 2.4L
* Nissan Terrano 3.0 Turbo Diesel 5 door
* Land Rover Discovery Series II 2.5 TD5 Diesel
* BMW X3 2.5i
* Hyundai - Santa FE 2.7 V6 CDX Station Wagon 5d 2656cc auto
* Isuzu - Trooper 3.0TD Citation (7st) Station Wagon 5d 2999cc auto
* Land Rover Defender Station Wagon 2.5 TD5 90 Diesel

Other cars that are rated in this same banding are the lion share of MPV’s, large family saloons and lower end executive cars

Hmm starting to think the anti 4x4 argument is a load of hot air,

FACT #5
The bigger 4x4’s are cleaner than many of the large Executive and Luxury car

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop


quote:Originally posted by duncan

Maybe the Schools your seeing kids being taken to Fi there's a load of X5s, but a lot of 4x4s that are on the School run aren't brand spanking fuel efficient vehicles.

There's plenty Rav 4s and older Discos and so on, which arent exactly the most efficient, compared with a similar age super-mini which would do the same job.


well a Rav4 wouldn't be any different from any other car of the same age well actually being a Toyota it would more than likely be better.

all you need to do is google:p


All you have to google for is 4x4 propoganda ;):p

Sorry Fi, but i've got to laugh at "Facts" 1, 5 and 6.

If the amount of Ferraris on the road numbered the same amount as 4x4s then there really would be problems!

And as for hardly any seating 5 comfortably? Pff, come on - thats not a fact - thats opinion.

Again, "fact" 1 is an opinion, not a fact. Its also stereotyping how people see 4x4s

Fact 2 is pertinant to all vehicles, not just off roaders.

Fact 3 - is the Cooper S really 222? I find data for the S Checkmate at 207. Even the Autobox isnt as high as 222.

Cant argue with fact 4 though

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by duncan


quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop


quote:Originally posted by duncan

Maybe the Schools your seeing kids being taken to Fi there's a load of X5s, but a lot of 4x4s that are on the School run aren't brand spanking fuel efficient vehicles.

There's plenty Rav 4s and older Discos and so on, which arent exactly the most efficient, compared with a similar age super-mini which would do the same job.


well a Rav4 wouldn't be any different from any other car of the same age well actually being a Toyota it would more than likely be better.

all you need to do is google:p


All you have to google for is 4x4 propoganda ;):p

Sorry Fi, but i've got to laugh at "Facts" 1, 5 and 6.

If the amount of Ferraris on the road numbered the same amount as 4x4s then there really would be problems!

And as for hardly any seating 5 comfortably? Pff, come on - thats not a fact - thats opinion.

Again, "fact" 1 is an opinion, not a fact. Its also stereotyping how people see 4x4s

Fact 2 is pertinant to all vehicles, not just off roaders.

Fact 3 - is the Cooper S really 222? I find data for the S Checkmate at 207. Even the Autobox isnt as high as 222.

Cant argue with fact 4 though


Yeh well the FACT is that a 4x4 is no different to many of the other cars on the road today and many owners like myself take part in the C02 offset programme

maybe some car drivers should start thinking to do the same.

I can sit in my Freelander knowing that I drive a pretty green car. Can you do the same.??

[KenL]

"Admittedly there are issues in the USA with Hummers and even bigger creations but to class all 4x4s in the same category is ridiculous."

I agree, I lived in the states for a while, over there it is a joke. The trucks are absolutely huge, terrifying if you are in a small car or even worse on a bike :eek:

[duncan]

With the lowest Freelander being 205 g/km, well, yes, yes I can.

[duncan]

And to add, Fact 4 supplies incorrect data for the Taxi Emissions.

According to the link you provide, the LTI taxi is either 206, or 243, depending on the gearbox.
Not the "fact" of 284!

[KenL]

I don't think people hate wee 4x4s like Freelanders. It's the BIG (Shoguns, Amazons etc. which people dislike.

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by duncan

And to add, Fact 4 supplies incorrect data for the Taxi Emissions.

According to the link you provide, the LTI taxi is either 206, or 243, depending on the gearbox.
Not the "fact" of 284!


yeh but your forgetting about my payment towards the co2 programme that I keep going on about. So when you put the 2 together I AM cleaner than you oh oh and don't forget I get more MPG than you do in your Cooper. Oh and don't forget about my partical filter Oh Oh and don't forget I fill with Ultimate Diesel which reduce the emmisions.:D:D Oh Oh and don't forget I do half the miles you do in a year.:D;)

So who is greener now then.:):p

[PACMAN]

My other half has a 4x4 with a 174 g/km rate ;)

[duncan]

Personally Fi, I know i could be more green than I am at present, everyone probably could be. So yes, I guess I am being hypocritical. I just like playing devils advocate though.

Global warming, or air pollution, or whatever isn't going to hit this generation the hardest - it'll be future generations that'll have to cope with what we're doing now.

[duncan]

I do 5,000 miles a year - roughly. If you do 2,500 miles a year, I'd be well impressed!

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by duncan

I do 5,000 miles a year - roughly. If you do 2,500 miles a year, I'd be well impressed!


Duncan I have that many cars;):p yes in the Freelander we don't do many miles.

Also I only use the energy saving bulbs in my house.;);)

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by duncan


quote:Originally posted by james f

by and large the co bigde ive encountered have all driven old bangers and didnt like it when i pointed that my cooper was far far more freindly to the enviromemt than their clattered old banger with not catalysit or engine managment and that compaines like bmw work hard to have a lower carbon foot print etc


Way to stereotype. You missed the CND and Nuclear Power - No Thanks stickers from the back of the 2CV.......;)




quote:Originally posted by duncan

There's plenty Rav 4s and older Discos and so on, which arent exactly the most efficient, compared with a similar age super-mini which would do the same job.


Contradicting yourself there a wee bit Duncan.:eek:

I feel I have to step in and stand next to Fi on this one. As a 4 X 4 owner, we do seem to be labeled as global killers, and as Fi has pointed out this just ain't so.

Not that I feel I have to defend myself, I'm going to anyway... The only real reason for us having a big 4X4 is to tow our caravan. We don't have any kids, therefore no unnecessary school-run. Even if we did have kids, and we lived 4 blocks from the school - the little blighter would WALK! But by holidaying in the UK (we never tow abroad) we are keeping our spending in the UK. Far more efficient than jumping on a Jumbo and flying off to far flung shores - say it quickly! :D And before anyone points out last years trip to Florida, Lenore's brother lives out there and we visit once every TWO years. Besides we don't fly, we both don a wet suit and swim the Atlantic.:D:D

Duncan, I agree wholeheartedly with you on the issue of kids being taken to School in (any) vehicle, when a short, healthy walk is a real alternative. There's no excuse for it. But to be honest, blaming all 4 X 4 drivers for their Co output because of this small minority of lazy people is unfair.

I would ask you this... have you ever taken a London taxi? Have you ever taken a ride on almost any bus? Have you ever flown in almost any aircraft? If yes, you have no moral right to criticise 4 x 4 owners.

<<<Steps down off soap box.

A.:D

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore


quote:Originally posted by duncan


quote:Originally posted by james f

by and large the co bigde ive encountered have all driven old bangers and didnt like it when i pointed that my cooper was far far more freindly to the enviromemt than their clattered old banger with not catalysit or engine managment and that compaines like bmw work hard to have a lower carbon foot print etc


Way to stereotype. You missed the CND and Nuclear Power - No Thanks stickers from the back of the 2CV.......;)




quote:Originally posted by duncan

There's plenty Rav 4s and older Discos and so on, which arent exactly the most efficient, compared with a similar age super-mini which would do the same job.


Contradicting yourself there a wee bit Duncan.:eek:

I feel I have to step in and stand next to Fi on this one. As a 4 X 4 owner, we do seem to be labeled as global killers, and as Fi has pointed out this just ain't so.

Not that I feel I have to defend myself, I'm going to anyway... The only real reason for us having a big 4X4 is to tow our caravan. We don't have any kids, therefore no unnecessary school-run. Even if we did have kids, and we lived 4 blocks from the school - the little blighter would WALK! But by holidaying in the UK (we never tow abroad) we are keeping our spending in the UK. Far more efficient than jumping on a Jumbo and flying off to far flung shores - say it quickly! :D And before anyone points out last years trip to Florida, Lenore's brother lives out there and we visit once every TWO years. Besides we don't fly, we both don a wet suit and swim the Atlantic.:D:D

Duncan, I agree wholeheartedly with you on the issue of kids being taken to School in (any) vehicle, when a short, healthy walk is a real alternative. There's no excuse for it. But to be honest, blaming all 4 X 4 drivers for their Co output because of this small minority of lazy people is unfair.

I would ask you this... have you ever taken a London taxi? Have you ever taken a ride on almost any bus? Have you ever flown in almost any aircraft? If yes, you have no moral right to criticise 4 x 4 owners.

<<<Steps down off soap box.

A.:D


about time where have you been;):p

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop
about time where have you been;):p


:D:D:D:D

Watching from the sidelines, waiting for a gap in play to join the pitch.;)

A.:D

[KenL]

quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore


Not that I feel I have to defend myself, I'm going to anyway... The only real reason for us having a big 4X4 is to tow our caravan. We don't have any kids, therefore no unnecessary school-run.

Good for you, at least you have a reason for needing one.

Like I said before, it is the inappropriate ownership of these vehicles which people find distasteful. I'm talking about the mother who buys a Merc ML 63AMG (392g/km CO2) to protect her precious little Barnaby on the way to school in Kensington.:D

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore

Contradicting yourself there a wee bit Duncan.:eek:



Not really. The smiley at the end of the first post is a giveaway, no?


quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore

I feel I have to step in and stand next to Fi on this one. As a 4 X 4 owner, we do seem to be labeled as global killers, and as Fi has pointed out this just ain't so.

Not that I feel I have to defend myself, I'm going to anyway... The only real reason for us having a big 4X4 is to tow our caravan. We don't have any kids, therefore no unnecessary school-run. Even if we did have kids, and we lived 4 blocks from the school - the little blighter would WALK! But by holidaying in the UK (we never tow abroad) we are keeping our spending in the UK. Far more efficient than jumping on a Jumbo and flying off to far flung shores - say it quickly! :D And before anyone points out last years trip to Florida, Lenore's brother lives out there and we visit once every TWO years. Besides we don't fly, we both don a wet suit and swim the Atlantic.:D:D

Duncan, I agree wholeheartedly with you on the issue of kids being taken to School in (any) vehicle, when a short, healthy walk is a real alternative. There's no excuse for it. But to be honest, blaming all 4 X 4 drivers for their Co output because of this small minority of lazy people is unfair.

I would ask you this... have you ever taken a London taxi? Have you ever taken a ride on almost any bus? Have you ever flown in almost any aircraft? If yes, you have no moral right to criticise 4 x 4 owners.

<<<Steps down off soap box.

A.:D


Andy, the reason for having a towing vehicle is fair enough.
There are, however, cars with lower g/km than the lowest X5 that would have enough torque to tow a large Caravan, such as the VW Passat TDi though.

As for other factors, such as air travel, yes, that is a pet hate of mine. They're the rivals in business so to say. The ever increasing amount of budget airlines is doing nothing to help the enviroment at all - far worse than all your 4x4s put together.

However, yes, I've been in a short-haul plane twice in the last 2 years (two singles). The rest of the travel for my holidays were on Trains in the continent - the vast majority were electric powered.
Something the UK lacks to the same extent as Mainland Europe.

[Scottie]

but Duncan you choose to run about in a Cooper. you could buy another make of car that has better emmission surely. Kenl what the aygo like.???

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by duncan
Andy, the reason for having a towing vehicle is fair enough.
There are, however, cars with lower g/km than the lowest X5 that would have enough torque to tow a large Caravan, such as the VW Passat TDi though.

As for other factors, such as air travel, yes, that is a pet hate of mine. They're the rivals in business so to say. The ever increasing amount of budget airlines is doing nothing to help the enviroment at all - far worse than all your 4x4s put together.

However, yes, I've been in a short-haul plane twice in the last 2 years (two singles). The rest of the travel for my holidays were on Trains in the continent - the vast majority were electric powered.
Something the UK lacks to the same extent as Mainland Europe.



There's more to responsible towing than just having buckets of torque. Had a look at the VW web site. None of the Passat's could tow my caravan. All their Maximum Vertical Downward Pressure limits are too low. 85Kg. I need 100Kg to be legal (and insured).

A.:D

[euan]

Just to jump in here....

Living in London, where the streets are paved with gold and everyone drives an x5, is somewhat of a myth :). There are small areas of london where that is true (Chelsea, Kensington, Fulham etc) but round my way which is a decent part of London and family orientated most people who do a school run it's in small(ish) family cars.

For me, everyone could have the greenest car in the world in the UK and the USA, but unless China/Korea/etc reduce the use of fossil fuels, we could all live as little green godesses in Toyota Prius and we'd all still be f***ed in the future due to the emissions of the afore mentioned countries. That's not to say we should all go out and drive 400g/km cars, but a little bit of sense is required.

My misus won't let me get anything that's any worse on emissions than we have now (about 180) and I quite agree with her. We do our bit for recycling etc and only really use the car for work (as it would take me hours to get to the office).

Summing up, I agree that it's unnecesary for school run to have a 4x4. It's unnecessary to have one in town. It's ok to have one if you use it for what it's designed for (ie, towing). We could all be better by driving lower emission cars, recycling more, but I think the majority of people are pretty sensible these days.

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop

but Duncan you choose to run about in a Cooper. you could buy another make of car that has better emmission surely. Kenl what the aygo like.???


As I've said already though Fiona, I could be greener - for the miles I do, i really could do without a car.

Can't say I've heard that from any of the 4x4 brigade.
All i've heard is they're not as bad as this, or as bad as that.
Thats hardly an admission.

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore


quote:Originally posted by duncan
Andy, the reason for having a towing vehicle is fair enough.
There are, however, cars with lower g/km than the lowest X5 that would have enough torque to tow a large Caravan, such as the VW Passat TDi though.

As for other factors, such as air travel, yes, that is a pet hate of mine. They're the rivals in business so to say. The ever increasing amount of budget airlines is doing nothing to help the enviroment at all - far worse than all your 4x4s put together.

However, yes, I've been in a short-haul plane twice in the last 2 years (two singles). The rest of the travel for my holidays were on Trains in the continent - the vast majority were electric powered.
Something the UK lacks to the same extent as Mainland Europe.



There's more to responsible towing than just having buckets of torque. Had a look at the VW web site. None of the Passat's could tow my caravan. All their Maximum Vertical Downward Pressure limits are too low. 85Kg. I need 100Kg to be legal (and insured).

A.:D


Are you towing your house? :eek:;)

[duncan]

quote:Originally posted by euan

For me, everyone could have the greenest car in the world in the UK and the USA, but unless China/Korea/etc reduce the use of fossil fuels, we could all live as little green godesses in Toyota Prius and we'd all still be f***ed in the future due to the emissions of the afore mentioned countries. That's not to say we should all go out and drive 400g/km cars, but a little bit of sense is required.


We - the developed west - can hardly force developing economies to reduce their emissions if we don't do the same. That would be hypocritical.

Even the Oil fixated Bush administration have recently changed their position from denying there is such a thing as global warming, to acknowledging the world is heating up.

That is a major break through, although don't expect them to sign up to Koyoto!

[euan]

Oh, I agree, but we can support them to implement technologies that are not as reliant on fossil fuels, subsidise a license for technology that keeps emissions lower - that is something that CAN be done.

Andy, is your caravan bigger than the monster the Fi had (still has?) it must be enormous!

[james f]

quote:Originally posted by duncan

Point being though, James, a van driver is going about their business, and its generally the one man band thats running about in 10 year old transits. Big business lease their vans and are ditched after 4 years or so.

Maybe the answer is to do what some Far East countries do, and scrap all vehicles over 10 years old.

Most of these Chelsea Tractors, on School Runs, are doing journeys that are totally un-nessesary.
Kids in the towns should walk to school - where practical.

Unrelated to this - there was a story in yesterdays Evening Telegraph in Dundee about a kid who didnt have the right money for a bus fare, and was kicked off.

His Journey? 3 Stops!

I couldn't believe that a parent would give the kid 40p (now 52p thats why he didnt have enough money) every day to go 3 stops on a bus. We're not talking about a Citylink coach here - its a Corporation bus, with a stop every 500 yards or so!


bussines or not its things like that that make the biggest impact and should be targeted for greener running esp buses and taxis bnoth of which are oil buners

now i feel i can commet as im pretty carbon neutral (me has a big big forset) and at the most i fly once every few years and genraly if im not useing the car i will use my bike or walk

relating to the above its one of the things that annoys me is how often buses stop as all that stop start is terrible on the old fuel

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by duncan
Are you towing your house? :eek:;)


lol.

It seems that way sometimes. Actually it's just a 2 berth (admittedly luxurious) caravan. But it has a 95kg VDP, and I always prefer to add in a margin for error.;)

Our X5 has a 125KG limit.

A.:D

[KenL]

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop

Kenl what the aygo like.???


I must take a picture of it. :cool::I

It really is a great wee car, a bit basic but perfect transport. It is nippy enough and can keep up with traffic on the motorway no problem, just don't try and accelerate going uphill :p

I bought it to drive through to uni in Glasgow for a year. Does 58-60mpg on average. Done almost 6k miles in 4 months.

[AndyP & Lenore]

quote:Originally posted by KenL


quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop

Kenl what the aygo like.???


I must take a picture of it. :cool::I

It really is a great wee car, a bit basic but perfect transport. It is nippy enough and can keep up with traffic on the motorway no problem, just don't try and accelerate going uphill :p

I bought it to drive through to uni in Glasgow for a year. Does 58-60mpg on average. Done almost 6k miles in 4 months.




Aren't they good for playing football with too?;) (Top Gear)

A.:D

[euan]

OK, so this is how the US are approaching it...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6247371.stm

[james f]

what most fail to see is that its not gobal warmig we should be worried about as the earth has been a lot hotter than it is now only 2k years ago it was hotter all down to the rosby waves and cycles as the earth moves on its axis every so often.

BUT what we do need to worry about is polution i know most link it to climate change not the case im afraid as we havent been doing enough damage for long enougph but it dosent mean that we should continue as we are not killing the planet but doing damage to ourselves as we need to cut polution massivly to improve our quilty of life

[Scottie]

yeh we all need to go out and buy a whole load of corks and stick them up cows @rses to stop them from farting out their methane.;):p

[euan]

I can't remember the percentage, but methane from cows is one of the biggest sources of C02 emissions in Wales! (this is my dull job coming out again...)

[Sheilz]

quote:Originally posted by KenL


quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore


Not that I feel I have to defend myself, I'm going to anyway... The only real reason for us having a big 4X4 is to tow our caravan. We don't have any kids, therefore no unnecessary school-run.

Good for you, at least you have a reason for needing one.

Like I said before, it is the inappropriate ownership of these vehicles which people find distasteful. I'm talking about the mother who buys a Merc ML 63AMG (392g/km CO2) to protect her precious little Barnaby on the way to school in Kensington.:D



A bit presumptious dont you think?
Why is it okay to have a go at mum's driving their kids to school? Have you ever stopped to think that the mums you feel its okay to slate have to go to work? Maybe have to drive daily to look after an aged parent/relative? might have horse boxes to pull, might have caravans, etc etc... sorry mate but every bloody social ill gets blamed on women. Dont make excuses for some people to own these vehicles while publicly castigating others.
Personally I dont like these vehicles, but I'm not going to point a finger and stereotype a specific group of people without knowing a damned thing about them.

[KenL]

quote:Originally posted by Sheilz


quote:Originally posted by KenL


quote:Originally posted by AndyP & Lenore


Not that I feel I have to defend myself, I'm going to anyway... The only real reason for us having a big 4X4 is to tow our caravan. We don't have any kids, therefore no unnecessary school-run.

Good for you, at least you have a reason for needing one.

Like I said before, it is the inappropriate ownership of these vehicles which people find distasteful. I'm talking about the mother who buys a Merc ML 63AMG (392g/km CO2) to protect her precious little Barnaby on the way to school in Kensington.:D



A bit presumptious dont you think?
Why is it okay to have a go at mum's driving their kids to school? Have you ever stopped to think that the mums you feel its okay to slate have to go to work? Maybe have to drive daily to look after an aged parent/relative? might have horse boxes to pull, might have caravans, etc etc... sorry mate but every bloody social ill gets blamed on women. Dont make excuses for some people to own these vehicles while publicly castigating others.
Personally I dont like these vehicles, but I'm not going to point a finger and stereotype a specific group of people without knowing a damned thing about them.



You are correct. I should have said parent, not mum.

[Sheilz]

All these school run mums in their tanks want taxed off the road.
Get your kids to walk to school - no wonder they're obese!
[/quote]

And as far as this comment is concerned I think you might find that the mum's who drive their children to school in their 'Chelsea Tractors' will in all probability be conscientious about their children's health and development, will ensure their children have hectic social lives in terms of having sporting, dancing, horse-riding, swimming activities to attend after school and at weekends therefore less likely to suffer from obesity which is more of a problem in schools serving poorer communities where 'Chelsea tractors' are non-existent. My daughter attends a school where there many children dropped off at school in 'Chelsea Tractors'and I have yet to see one obese child in the whole promary school. This contrast sharply with a school I have young clients at where the parents can barely afford to feed their kids never mind have cars to drive them to school and oddly enough I see quite a few obese children with poor complexions etc. The causes of childhood obesity are too complex and really blaming mum's transporting kids to school for this problem is just too simplistic.

[duncan]

Sheliz, You do know I wasnt writing a dissertation on Childhood Obesity?