The first R56 software upgrade

[Scottie]

Found out today that it is not to due till March 2007.

Hopefully it will fix a few of the wee niggles the R56 has.:(:(

[Craig]

what niggles are you refering to ? ? (just so I know what you look for ;))

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by Craig & Jude

what niggles are you refering to ? ? (just so I know what you look for ;))


nothing to much just wee niggles you'll find out or maybe your will be fine.;)

[illegalhunter]

fi dont get craig started about niggles

[KenL]

Come on Fiona, spill the beans...

Cooper, Cooper S or both?

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by KenL

Come on Fiona, spill the beans...

Cooper, Cooper S or both?


mainly the Cooper as it get's driven the most.


the most annoying thing for me is the whistle you get from the heating really bugs me. Only happens when amb temp is 10C or below however it is getting fixed with the software upgrade. well that's the MINI line. I reckon it depends on the speed the fan is going anyhow I know the workshop at Calterdon will look after me.

next on both cars is the ticking sound you get from the drivers window so annoying.

my current fix is just to increase the radio volume.

IMO I think with the new generation runflats you get loads more tyre noise either that or it is due to reduced sound proofing.

that's the lot so far.


having driven both Mini's Allans with just the boost head unit and mine with the Hi-Fi upgrade.

I would urge anyone speccing a Mini to go for the hi-fi option is ££ allows. At first I thought Allan's sound was not that bad but the more and more you hear them Oh dear poor Allan but he disnae mind not to bothered about sound quality but IF YOU ARE then upgrade NOW before it's to late.

[KenL]

Thanks Fiona.

These don't really sound like "faults" that could be fixed in software. Is the whistle speed (mph not fan) related? Do you have climate or normal AC?

In my 2002 ONE, after the second service there was a whistle from the system at speed due to the pollen filter not being fitted properly, thanks Dunedin :eek:

What is the window ticking? Is the car constantly checking the window is closed or something? You know like the sound you get from a realy clicking a switch opening?

Thankfully, I upgraded the HiFi - thanks to your advice :)

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by KenL

Thanks Fiona.

These don't really sound like "faults" that could be fixed in software. Is the whistle speed (mph not fan) related? Do you have climate or normal AC?

In my 2002 ONE, after the second service there was a whistle from the system at speed due to the pollen filter not being fitted properly, thanks Dunedin :eek:

What is the window ticking? Is the car constantly checking the window is closed or something? You know like the sound you get from a realy clicking a switch opening?

Thankfully, I upgraded the HiFi - thanks to your advice :)


nope not to do with MPH it can happen while standing still IMO I think it is to do with the speed of the fan I have the auto Air Con Allan has manual and it is fine.

No the ticking is not from the motor more like (hard to explain) actually Allan's is worse than mine and he has the sun roof. Although he is not getting the reported bad wind noise from the sun roof.

Kenl you will be more than happy with the hi-fi upgrade can't stress how much it is needed if your into your music.

[illegalhunter]

iam glad ive ordered it now fi as you have spent big bucks in the past on ice so thats good enough for me

[Crombers]

quote:Originally posted by Craig & Jude

what niggles are you refering to ? ? (just so I know what you look for ;))


OMG , duck for cover troops :approve::p;)

[Scottie]

also noticed today in my Cooper so I would guess the S to be the same.

That at speeds over 90mph (not that I was doing that) the window wipers lift of the windscreen. never noticed in my older Minis but they may have done this.

Also can I just say that the new style runflats to me seem to have even less grip than the old style. Trying to get out quick at the round abouts on the greasy road surface you almost always get a wheel spin.

[Craig]

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop

also noticed today in my Cooper so I would guess the S to be the same.

That at speeds over 90mph (not that I was doing that) the window wipers lift of the windscreen. never noticed in my older Minis but they may have done this.

Also can I just say that the new style runflats to me seem to have even less grip than the old style. Trying to get out quick at the round abouts on the greasy road surface you almost always get a wheel spin.


never noticed the wiper problem on my current car fi..... (as I wouldn't be doing that speed :I;):D)

also, that's one of the reasons I don't like run-flats, you just don't seem to get the same grip/feel...:disapprove:

[ELFMAN]

Wheelspin? Fiona, remember the new 'S' has BUCKETLOADS of low-end torque = wheelspin on slippy roads, you'll also get the COOPER to spin the wheels easily just now with all the salt/muck around - very greasy. I'd heard the newest generation Runflats were supposed to be a bit better than the old ones, but hard rubber, cold weather and grime don't make grip. Got a great fix for the 90+mph wiper-lift - stay below 90 when it's raining! Noises? See, you start to get TOO refined and then expect Bentley levels of civility. I hardly notice wee whistles and things over my '60's Le Mans' soundtrack! All I need to do now is get well enough to drive the bloody thing, I haven't been out in it since Xmas Eve.

[Scottie]

I obviously don't do that speed ;) but this wee guy in his Ford Fiesta ST was bugging me.:D

actually now that I have got over" my new car" feeling

there is a couple wee things I have started to notice nothing major just tiny things that might not bother other folks

but

on the up sweep of my wiper as it reaches the top of the sweep on the drivers side the tip of the wiper makes a clunk noise :( will have to check it sounds like it is hitting the body work maybe the wiper is a smidge to big. not sure

or it's not sitting on the window correct and makes the noise as the rubber changes direction on the start of the down sweep. bugs the hell out of me though:mad:

[KenL]

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop

I obviously don't do that speed ;) but this wee guy in his Ford Fiesta ST was bugging me.:D


I wouldn't try and lose someone in an ST with a Cooper. They are faster (150bhp) and according to Autoexpress in a recent group test a better handling car :eek:

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by KenL


quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop

I obviously don't do that speed ;) but this wee guy in his Ford Fiesta ST was bugging me.:D


I wouldn't try and lose someone in an ST with a Cooper. They are faster (150bhp) and according to Autoexpress in a recent group test a better handling car :eek:


ah but it's down to the driver;)

[KenL]

quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop


quote:Originally posted by KenL


quote:Originally posted by ScottieCoop

I obviously don't do that speed ;) but this wee guy in his Ford Fiesta ST was bugging me.:D


I wouldn't try and lose someone in an ST with a Cooper. They are faster (150bhp) and according to Autoexpress in a recent group test a better handling car :eek:


ah but it's down to the driver;)


Right enough :D

[vintageb3]

quote:Originally posted by KenL

I wouldn't try and lose someone in an ST with a Cooper. They are faster (150bhp) and according to Autoexpress in a recent group test a better handling car :eek:


Are they better handling than a MINI?

My mate had a Hartke Cooper S...had it done through BMW before the JCW kit was available. This actually led to some confusion when he went for his first service as the local dealer refused to service the car under TLC...because of "modifications" Luckily he had paperwork with him to prove it was done by a BMW dealer and was OK.

Anyway...In the summer...he sold it and bought a Focus ST. He had work done again to this car and told me that it was nearly 300BHP.

He threw me the keys...told me to take it out. I got out on to the main road and headed up a steep hill.

I stuck the foot down...and the power came on...THEN from nowhere this second band of power kicked in. It impaled me into the seat I WAS GOING UP A HILL!!!

I took my foot off the pedal...and I was thrown off the seat and against the wheel.

The power in that car was over the top and it didn't feel safe on corners....corners that the MINI would easily go round at the same speed.

I like acceleration over top speed...I get more of a buzz out of that when driving but I personally don't see the need for that kind of power on a road car.

He was told by Ford that the Focus ST handled better than the MINI too...but I don't agree.

Is it true that the Fiesta ST handles better than a MINI?

Let me know

mark

[KenL]

Well, I'm only quoting what I think it said in Autoexpress recently. I'll try and dig it put later.

No way I would pay £13k for a Fiesta, even if it did handle way better than the MINI

[ELFMAN]

Try 'Evo' Magazine rather than Auto Express if you want a realistic expert opinion of the relative merits of the likes of the Fiesta ST and the COOPER. Auto Express is a bit more of a 'What Shopping Trolley?' mag than a serious drivers' read.

EVO:
Old COOPER plus points: “Funky, solid, great value minus points: Deserves a better engine” 4.5 stars
NEW COOPER plus points: “Still desirable
minus points: Steering has lost a little feel” 4 Stars

Fiesta ST plus points: “Great looks, decent brakes, minus points: Disappointing chassis, gutless engine” 3.5 stars. The Chassis comment is well worth noting. EVO reckoned the 'Fiesta Zetec S' was a much better resolved car than the ST - now that would've been annoying keeping up with the COOPER..... Zetec Plus ponts; “Better than you'd ever believe, Minus point: No-one else will believe it”.

I reckon the Fiesta ST's just a cooking hatch with a bigger engine to give it more 'cred', it has none of the cache of any MINI, it's not as interesting to drive (at any speed) and it won't get as many admiring looks. Could it keep up with a COOPER? Of course, if the driver's any good, it has a 150bhp 2 litre after all - but I know who'd be having more fun! Driving's about so much more than 'can it keep up with...?' My COOPER wasn't the fastest thing, but boy, was it GOOD FUN! The ST's also a grand dearer than the new COOPER and will lose more in value after you buy it. It's pitched against 'hotter' hatches than the COOPER anyway, which is why it's out of it's depth in its category.

Mark - I agree that 300bhp in a Focus is just daft for the road. Anybody can produce big power, especially from a Turbo, it's harnessing it that's the problem. The Focus ST has a big lump of a 2.5 litre engine stuck out the front and has a tendency to understeer, which will just be worsened by sticking loads more power through it. A well driven COOPER S (new or old model) would give it a fright on a twisty road whether it had 300bhp or not. As Mark said, he felt much safer in the MINI at the same speeds. More power often shows up a car's inherent inadequasies. Power is very seductive and sounds great to banter about, but without balance and good chassis dynamics, it's wasted. That's why I uprated my Suspension and brakes before the engine. I love my JCW 210 upgrade, but my S was fab when it had 'only' 175bhp. It's slightly different now, and as enjoyable in a more serious way, but I'm still making up my mind whether it's truly “Better”. It's all very subjective. My mate has a 300bhp Porsche Cayman S, and while it's very expensive, I have NEVER been in a car with such reserves of roadholding/brakes and depth of dynamic ability. I'm certain if you really need 300bhp, THAT'S the kind of car you want to be in when you let it loose, not a souped-up Focus ST.

[KenL]

I re-read the article. They spent a lot of time going on about how great the handling was on the Fiesta...but they they then said that even though the Fiesta had more ultimate grip, the MINI was a better drive - phew!!!

[ELFMAN]

There IS a God after all...... and He/She drives a MINI!

[vintageb3]

quote:Originally posted by ELFMAN

There IS a God after all...... and He/She drives a MINI!


Euan...I read with interest your comments on the 210 upgrade. You say that you don't know if it makes the car "better"

I actually thought about this whilst pondering about the upgrade. Not that I'm ready for it yet. I now have actually got to the point where the car doesn't scare me as much and can see that a little more power would be good coming in at lower revs.

I'd hate to do the upgrade and then think.."Jeez!...that wasn't really worth it."

I've got a convertible...and its not supposed to be as good on the road as a tin roof. Just wondered if an upgrade would be wasted on a convertible...and it would really unbalance the car re power/handling.

I have to say I think the cornering on the MCSC is amazing...I have no real complaints....so the Cooper S tin roof must be out of the world!

I certianly wouldn't swap it for a Fiesta or a Focus!;)

mark

[ELFMAN]

Mark, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not worth it - it's a noticable performance increase over standard, and gives the 'S' serious capability on the road, where the standard car sometimes (but not often) felt slightly lacking when you got used to it. Now it has ample power everywhere.

My car, with the JCW Suspension, Brakes and Playmini, was/is great to drive - much better IMHO than when it came from the factory. The 210 kit has made it do what it already did... but faster. I've only had the upgrade and Seats since 12th Dec, I'm still running it in, and I was full of the 'flu during the hols, so I haven't been able to get a full appreciation of it yet.

I was trying to point out was that I was still in the 'comparison' process and time will tell how much “better” the power hike makes what was already a great wee car. I certainly don't regret fitting the upgrade, as it's made what looks a fairly inoffensive 'classic' looking MINI into a bit of a 'sleeper' - which was my intention. Although the exhaust is a bit of a giveaway...

What I would say from experience is don't just automatically assume that increasing power in ANY car is a sure-fire way to happiness, there's always a trade-off, whether it's fuel consumption (a bit silly in the 210 when you're booting it - you'll be lucky to see 20mpg on a thrash), or showing up other weaknesses in the car (suspension, brakes etc). “The grass is always greener” as they say, even if the emissions aren't! One thing I have noticed is that while the JCW Seats hold you in place SO MUCH better than the standard ones, they do seem to transfer more of the 'road shock' to your body, whereas the softer O.E. ones didn't - it's a trade-off between sitting tight and sitting slightly more comfortably, I much prefer the better location of the JCW's, but that's the type of car I want, others might not like to feel the bumps - especially if they're on the original 'Sports Plus' suspension. So on the whole, I've made my car a bit more 'Hardcore' which I like, but taking it any further would, in my opinion, compromise it too much for everyday use - which I've done in the past, and ended up with a 'Tarmac Spec' rally car.... OK when you're in your 20's, but a pain when you're past 40. If you like to really shift, go for the 210 (or other upgrades, which are much cheaper. I've gained a new 2 Year Engine Warranty from fitting the JCW kit, as my original warranty was up on 24th Dec), but if you're happy with the performance, why not fit better suspension and brakes/ exhaust etc and use what engine performance you have to it's full extent? I did that for three years and had a great time!

[stoney]

well i have just put on the gtt manafold with my 200bhp works kit and it makes some difrence somther power and more resposive and was talking 2 a bmw macinic he said that doing a re map will be as good if not better than the 210 bhp kit for my car that is

[ELFMAN]

Rob, I reckon the 210 kit MUST run better with a good Manifold, and should be worth a few extra horses. The JCW kit retains the standard manifold for noise regs/emissions more than anything. We'd have to put them on a Rolling Road to find out exactly what and where the power benefits are.... By the way, I think this thread's gone way off topic!!!! Sorry.

[Craig]

quote:Originally posted by ELFMAN

Rob, I reckon the 210 kit MUST run better with a good Manifold, and should be worth a few extra horses. The JCW kit retains the standard manifold for noise regs/emissions more than anything. We'd have to put them on a Rolling Road to find out exactly what and where the power benefits are.... By the way, I think this thread's gone way off topic!!!! Sorry.


aye - get yer R50's modding info into another thread...:eek:;):D

where are the mods when you need them to keep things "on topic"...:blackeye:;):D

[stoney]

quote:Originally posted by ELFMAN

Rob, I reckon the 210 kit MUST run better with a good Manifold, and should be worth a few extra horses. The JCW kit retains the standard manifold for noise regs/emissions more than anything. We'd have to put them on a Rolling Road to find out exactly what and where the power benefits are.... By the way, I think this thread's gone way off topic!!!! Sorry.


for def the 210 kit will run better with a good manafold but i as asking if it would be better for me 2 have the extra bits for the 210 kit or go for some thing like the gtt re map